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Re: [PBML] Hi

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  • Greg Webster
    Our rules for the list ask that you contact a moderator to seek permission before posting to the PBML mailing list. Please do not do this again. Greg Webster
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 4, 2002
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      Our rules for the list ask that you contact a moderator to seek permission
      before posting to the PBML mailing list. Please do not do this again.

      Greg Webster
      Owner and Moderator



      On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, bgaheer wrote:

      > This is Bill, Accounts Manager for Intellisoft, We are constantly
      > looking for a NEW Talent in this Market, for Our Open Positions
      > accross USA,
      > So If you are a CGI or a OOPerl consultant witl excellent comm skills
      > and are looking for a project
      > Contact me by email/Fax/ICQ/Phone.
      > Please send in your latest Copy of Resume.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Bill
      >
      > email at : Bill@...
      > Phone No 972-607-1727*104
      > Toll Free 1-888-456-3363*104
      > ICQ #: 142055437
      > Fax No : 972 413 7086
      >
      >
      >
      > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • Greg Webster
      Thanks for accepting the list rules...Now...what are you proposing? I may be into doing a little consulting myself... Greg Webster On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:53:51
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 4, 2002
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        Thanks for accepting the list rules...Now...what are you proposing? I may
        be into doing a little consulting myself...

        Greg Webster


        On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:53:51 -0000
        "bgaheer" <bgaheer@...> wrote:

        > This is Bill, Accounts Manager for Intellisoft, We are constantly
        > looking for a NEW Talent in this Market, for Our Open Positions
        > accross USA,
        > So If you are a CGI or a OOPerl consultant witl excellent comm skills
        > and are looking for a project
        > Contact me by email/Fax/ICQ/Phone.
        > Please send in your latest Copy of Resume.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Bill
        >
        > email at : Bill@...
        > Phone No 972-607-1727*104
        > Toll Free 1-888-456-3363*104
        > ICQ #: 142055437
        > Fax No : 972 413 7086
        >
        >
        >
        > Unsubscribing info is here:
        > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Greg Webster
        On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:27:31 -0800 ... Sorry folks, that was intended for off-list. Greg
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 4, 2002
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          On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:27:31 -0800
          Greg Webster <greg@...> wrote:
          > Thanks for accepting the list rules...Now...what are you proposing? I
          > may be into doing a little consulting myself...
          >
          > Greg Webster

          Sorry folks, that was intended for off-list.

          Greg
        • Richard
          Am completely new to this and have encountered my first problem of many am sure could someone please tell me why first part of code works and the 2 others dont
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 15, 2005
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            Am completely new to this and have encountered my first problem of
            many am sure could someone please tell me why first part of code
            works and the 2 others dont also would like to know best way of
            returning number of correct answers thanks in advance.

            print ("Please enter & four times:");
            $answer = <STDIN>;

            if ($answer =~ m/\&{4}/)
            {
            print ("Correct!\n");
            }
            elsif ($answer !~ m/\ &{4}/)
            {
            print ("Wrong.\n");
            }


            print ("Please enter £ six times:");
            $answer = <STDIN>;

            if ($answer =~ m/\£{6}/)
            {
            print ("Correct!\n");
            }
            elsif ($answer !~ m/\ £{6}/)
            {
            print ("Wrong.\n");
            }

            print ("Please enter $ nine times:");
            $answer = <STDIN>;

            if ($answer =~ m/\${9}/)
            {
            print ("Correct!\n");
            }
            elsif ($answer !~ m/\ ${9}/)
            {
            print ("Wrong.\n");
          • merlyn@stonehenge.com
            ... Richard Am completely new to this and have encountered my first problem of Richard many am sure could someone please tell me why first part of code
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 15, 2005
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              >>>>> "Richard" == Richard <knighthawk66uk@...> writes:

              Richard> Am completely new to this and have encountered my first problem of
              Richard> many am sure could someone please tell me why first part of code
              Richard> works and the 2 others dont also would like to know best way of
              Richard> returning number of correct answers thanks in advance.

              Richard> print ("Please enter & four times:");
              Richard> $answer = <STDIN>;

              Richard> if ($answer =~ m/\&{4}/)
              Richard> {
              Richard> print ("Correct!\n");
              Richard> }
              Richard> elsif ($answer !~ m/\ &{4}/)

              What is the space doing there? And it's consistently wrong.

              --
              Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
              <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
              Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
              See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
            • John Thimothy
              I have list of c files I need toopen them one by one and i need toappend a special character orspace at the beginig of each line Can some one help me how to
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 14, 2006
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                I have list of c files

                I need toopen them one by one and i need toappend a special character
                orspace at the beginig of each line

                Can some one help me how to write this code

                It si always good if u give the code it self
              • Damien Carbery
                ... It is always good when *you* provide the code that you have written. Look at the documentation for the following functions: open, close, print, opendir,
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 14, 2006
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                  --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, "John Thimothy"
                  <johnthimothyg@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I have list of c files
                  >
                  > I need toopen them one by one and i need toappend a special character
                  > orspace at the beginig of each line
                  >
                  > Can some one help me how to write this code
                  >
                  > It si always good if u give the code it self
                  >

                  It is always good when *you* provide the code that you have written.

                  Look at the documentation for the following functions:
                  open, close, print, opendir, readdir, closedir and the <> operator (to
                  read from a file).
                • Gaurav Negi
                  If you have list of c files in another file name list and you are using Unix. #Open file list for reading files name open(fp,
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 14, 2006
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                    If you have list of c files in another file name "list" and you are using Unix.

                    #Open file list for reading files name
                    open(fp,"<list");

                    foreach $line (<fp>)
                    {
                    chomp($line);
                    system("rm -f /tmp/tmpfile");
                    #Open temp file for writing
                    open(tmp,">/tmp/tmpfile);
                    #Open file for reading
                    open(fpp,"<$line");
                    foreach $ll (<fpp>)
                    {
                    chomp($ll);
                    #print space at begining of each line"
                    print tmp " ";
                    #print rest of the line
                    print tmp $ll;
                    print tmp "\n";
                    }
                    close(tmp);close(fpp);
                    #Overwrite file with content of tmp file
                    system("cp /tmp/tmpfile $line");
                    }
                    close(fp);

                    Hope this helps.
                    -Gaurav

                    John Thimothy <johnthimothyg@...> wrote:
                    I have list of c files

                    I need toopen them one by one and i need toappend a special character
                    orspace at the beginig of each line

                    Can some one help me how to write this code

                    It si always good if u give the code it self






                    ---------------------------------
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Mike Southern
                    WTF?
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 14, 2006
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                      WTF?

                      On 8/14/06 10:28 PM, Gaurav Negi at gaurav_singh_negi@... wrote:

                      > If you have list of c files in another file name "list" and you are using
                      > Unix.
                      >
                      > #Open file list for reading files name
                      > open(fp,"<list");
                      >
                      > foreach $line (<fp>)
                      > {
                      > chomp($line);
                      > system("rm -f /tmp/tmpfile");
                      > #Open temp file for writing
                      > open(tmp,">/tmp/tmpfile);
                      > #Open file for reading
                      > open(fpp,"<$line");
                      > foreach $ll (<fpp>)
                      > {
                      > chomp($ll);
                      > #print space at begining of each line"
                      > print tmp " ";
                      > #print rest of the line
                      > print tmp $ll;
                      > print tmp "\n";
                      > }
                      > close(tmp);close(fpp);
                      > #Overwrite file with content of tmp file
                      > system("cp /tmp/tmpfile $line");
                      > }
                      > close(fp);
                      >
                      > Hope this helps.
                      > -Gaurav
                      >
                      > John Thimothy <johnthimothyg@...> wrote:
                      > I have list of c files
                      >
                      > I need toopen them one by one and i need toappend a special character
                      > orspace at the beginig of each line
                      >
                      > Can some one help me how to write this code
                      >
                      > It si always good if u give the code it self
                    • Gaurav Negi
                      What do you mean? Mike Southern wrote: WTF? ... Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You re invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. [Non-text
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 14, 2006
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                        What do you mean?


                        Mike Southern <gb1198@...> wrote:
                        WTF?

                        On 8/14/06 10:28 PM, Gaurav Negi at gaurav_singh_negi@... wrote:

                        > If you have list of c files in another file name "list" and you are using
                        > Unix.
                        >
                        > #Open file list for reading files name
                        > open(fp,"<list");
                        >
                        > foreach $line (<fp>)
                        > {
                        > chomp($line);
                        > system("rm -f /tmp/tmpfile");
                        > #Open temp file for writing
                        > open(tmp,">/tmp/tmpfile);
                        > #Open file for reading
                        > open(fpp,"<$line");
                        > foreach $ll (<fpp>)
                        > {
                        > chomp($ll);
                        > #print space at begining of each line"
                        > print tmp " ";
                        > #print rest of the line
                        > print tmp $ll;
                        > print tmp "\n";
                        > }
                        > close(tmp);close(fpp);
                        > #Overwrite file with content of tmp file
                        > system("cp /tmp/tmpfile $line");
                        > }
                        > close(fp);
                        >
                        > Hope this helps.
                        > -Gaurav
                        >
                        > John Thimothy <johnthimothyg@...> wrote:
                        > I have list of c files
                        >
                        > I need toopen them one by one and i need toappend a special character
                        > orspace at the beginig of each line
                        >
                        > Can some one help me how to write this code
                        >
                        > It si always good if u give the code it self






                        ---------------------------------
                        Do you Yahoo!?
                        Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Damien Carbery
                        ... Mike s question could mean: Why did you provide poor code? You are not using the strict module. You are not checking that the files were opened
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 15, 2006
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                          --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, Gaurav Negi
                          <gaurav_singh_negi@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > What do you mean?
                          >

                          Mike's question could mean:
                          Why did you provide poor code?
                          You are not using the 'strict' module. You are not checking that the
                          files were opened successfully for reading and for writing. You are
                          using 'system' unnecessarily (unlink and rename are alternatives).

                          It is better to guide Gaurav to the solution instead of providing one.
                          Gaurav will not learn with this method.
                          I would like to see what code Gaurav has already written and provide
                          guidance based on that.

                          >
                          > Mike Southern <gb1198@...> wrote:
                          > WTF?
                          >
                          > On 8/14/06 10:28 PM, Gaurav Negi at gaurav_singh_negi@... wrote:
                          >
                          > > If you have list of c files in another file name "list" and you
                          are using
                          > > Unix.
                          > >
                          > > #Open file list for reading files name
                          > > #### Snip poor code.
                          > > close(fp);
                          > >
                          > > Hope this helps.
                          > > -Gaurav
                          > >
                          > > John Thimothy <johnthimothyg@...> wrote:
                          > > I have list of c files
                          > >
                          > > I need toopen them one by one and i need toappend a special character
                          > > orspace at the beginig of each line
                          > >
                          > > Can some one help me how to write this code
                          > >
                          > > It si always good if u give the code it self
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                          > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Gaurav Negi
                          Hey Listen, I am also perl beginner. If you are master then why u are here? If you can write better code, you better write one. The time and efforts you spend
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 15, 2006
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                            Hey Listen,
                            I am also perl beginner. If you are master then why u are here?
                            If you can write better code, you better write one. The time and efforts you spend in
                            writing, you could have written code itself. Also my code was to John, so that he can get some help. Not for you to comment.

                            -Gaurav

                            Damien Carbery <daymobrew@...> wrote:
                            --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, Gaurav Negi
                            <gaurav_singh_negi@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > What do you mean?
                            >

                            Mike's question could mean:
                            Why did you provide poor code?
                            You are not using the 'strict' module. You are not checking that the
                            files were opened successfully for reading and for writing. You are
                            using 'system' unnecessarily (unlink and rename are alternatives).

                            It is better to guide Gaurav to the solution instead of providing one.
                            Gaurav will not learn with this method.
                            I would like to see what code Gaurav has already written and provide
                            guidance based on that.

                            >
                            > Mike Southern <gb1198@...> wrote:
                            > WTF?
                            >
                            > On 8/14/06 10:28 PM, Gaurav Negi at gaurav_singh_negi@... wrote:
                            >
                            > > If you have list of c files in another file name "list" and you
                            are using
                            > > Unix.
                            > >
                            > > #Open file list for reading files name
                            > > #### Snip poor code.
                            > > close(fp);
                            > >
                            > > Hope this helps.
                            > > -Gaurav
                            > >
                            > > John Thimothy <johnthimothyg@...> wrote:
                            > > I have list of c files
                            > >
                            > > I need toopen them one by one and i need toappend a special character
                            > > orspace at the beginig of each line
                            > >
                            > > Can some one help me how to write this code
                            > >
                            > > It si always good if u give the code it self
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                            > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >






                            ---------------------------------
                            Do you Yahoo!?
                            Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • merlyn@stonehenge.com
                            ... Gaurav I am also perl beginner. If you are master then why u are here? To help you learn. Gaurav If you can write better code, you better write
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 15, 2006
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                              >>>>> "Gaurav" == Gaurav Negi <gaurav_singh_negi@...> writes:

                              Gaurav> I am also perl beginner. If you are master then why u are here?

                              To help you learn.

                              Gaurav> If you can write better code, you better write one. The time and
                              Gaurav> efforts you spend in writing, you could have written code itself.

                              Perhaps, but it wouldn't have cured the problem.

                              Gaurav> Also my code was to John, so that he can get some help.

                              It's not helpful to show a beginner bad code. They'll merely learn how to do
                              something badly.

                              Gaurav> Not for you to comment.

                              Everything you write here is subject to comment. Including what I'm writing
                              here.

                              If you're a beginner, *read* the list.
                              If you're a beginner, *do not answer*.

                              Answering is for the experts. Please. Otherwise, we all suffer.

                              --
                              Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
                              <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
                              Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
                              See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
                            • Mike Southern
                              ... It means that I was so stunned by this code I had to drink heavily and write novels for a while. Careful Ken, you know what he s like with a few novels in
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 15, 2006
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                                On 8/15/06 7:43 AM, Damien Carbery at daymobrew@... wrote:

                                > --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, Gaurav Negi
                                > <gaurav_singh_negi@...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >> What do you mean?
                                >>
                                >> Mike Southern <gb1198@...> wrote:
                                >> WTF?


                                It means that I was so stunned by this code I had to drink heavily and write
                                novels for a while. "Careful Ken, you know what he's like with a few novels
                                in him".

                                You really should NOT post code as an answer if you aren't prepared to go
                                the extra steps to clarify your logic and make your program at least a small
                                resemblance to "best practice" code. There are many solutions available
                                using perl - some are more elegant than others, but a basic requirement is
                                that the code should work.

                                You don't have to be a "master" to achieve good working code - especially at
                                home. Yours doesn't work, it's untidy, and your logic is faulty.


                                -> you should use some interpreter validation such as "strict" and
                                "warnings" otherwise you could go screaming into a hung processor.

                                -> You should always check for error when opening and closing files
                                #Open file list for reading files name

                                -> some presentation could be good - a little character spacing: fp,"< list"
                                open(fp,"<list");

                                foreach $line (<fp>)
                                {
                                chomp($line);

                                -> As a technique I am not sure I'd want to teach this as a method of
                                initialising a new file. And you should also check any file deletions,
                                copies or moves.

                                system("rm -f /tmp/tmpfile");

                                -> again, no open file check
                                #Open temp file for writing

                                -> Missing close quote at end of next line. This is the first reason your
                                code will not work.

                                open(tmp,">/tmp/tmpfile);

                                #Open file for reading

                                -> This is illogical. And it plain just doesn't work.
                                -> What are you trying to accomplish in the next 10 lines?

                                open(fpp,"<$line");
                                foreach $ll (<fpp>)
                                {
                                chomp($ll);
                                #print space at begining of each line"
                                print tmp " ";
                                #print rest of the line
                                print tmp $ll;
                                print tmp "\n";
                                }
                                close(tmp);close(fpp);

                                -> Incorrect use of parenthesis is confusing the cp command
                                -> however, your logic has me confused.
                                -> what are you trying to do here?
                                -> This is the second reason your code will not work

                                #Overwrite file with content of tmp file

                                system("cp /tmp/tmpfile $line");
                                }
                                close(fp);

                                Hope this helps.
                                -Gaurav

                                No. It didn't work and provided more questions than answers.


                                >John Thimothy <johnthimothyg@...> wrote:
                                > I have list of c files

                                >I need toopen them one by one and i need toappend a special character
                                >orspace at the beginig of each line

                                >Can some one help me how to write this code

                                >It si always good if u give the code it self



                                **********************************
                                #!/usr/local/bin/perl

                                use strict;
                                use warnings;

                                #This program assumes that the input and output files
                                # are static. If working form a dynamically changing
                                # folder content or command line interface
                                # then build appropriate code.

                                my $sourcefile = "list.txt";
                                my $outputfile = "list_out.txt";
                                my $insertcharacters = " ";
                                my $line;

                                #I kept this file init so you could relate to it
                                system "rm -f $outputfile" || die "$!\n";

                                #Open your inout and output files
                                open(inputfile,"< $sourcefile") || die "$!\n";

                                open(outputfile,"> $outputfile") || die "$!\n";

                                #Perform your loop on the input file contents
                                foreach $line (<inputfile>) {
                                chomp($line);

                                #Prepend each line with the required insert character
                                $line = "${insertcharacters}${line}";

                                #write the line to the output file
                                print outputfile "$line\n";
                                }

                                #Close your input and output files
                                close(outputfile);

                                close(inputfile);
                                **********************************
                              • Damien Carbery
                                ... efforts you spend in ... John, so that he can get some help. Not for you to comment. ... s/Gaurav/John/ I admit that I made a mistake when I mentioned
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 16, 2006
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                                  --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, Gaurav Negi
                                  <gaurav_singh_negi@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hey Listen,
                                  > I am also perl beginner. If you are master then why u are here?
                                  > If you can write better code, you better write one. The time and
                                  efforts you spend in
                                  > writing, you could have written code itself. Also my code was to
                                  John, so that he can get some help. Not for you to comment.
                                  >
                                  > -Gaurav
                                  >
                                  > Damien Carbery <daymobrew@...> wrote:
                                  > --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, Gaurav Negi
                                  > <gaurav_singh_negi@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > What do you mean?
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > Mike's question could mean:
                                  > Why did you provide poor code?
                                  > You are not using the 'strict' module. You are not checking that the
                                  > files were opened successfully for reading and for writing. You are
                                  > using 'system' unnecessarily (unlink and rename are alternatives).
                                  >
                                  > It is better to guide Gaurav to the solution instead of providing one.
                                  > Gaurav will not learn with this method.
                                  > I would like to see what code Gaurav has already written and provide
                                  > guidance based on that.
                                  >

                                  s/Gaurav/John/
                                  I admit that I made a mistake when I mentioned 'Gaurav' in my mail. I
                                  meant to use 'John' there. The rest of the comments apply and have
                                  been nicely expanded by Randal and Mike.
                                • kenshail2003
                                  ... are here? ... time and ... itself. ... how to do ... I m writing ... 777 0095 ... training! ... This poses an interesting question: When does one become
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Aug 16, 2006
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                                    --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, merlyn@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >>>>> "Gaurav" == Gaurav Negi <gaurav_singh_negi@...> writes:
                                    >
                                    > Gaurav> I am also perl beginner. If you are master then why u
                                    are here?
                                    >
                                    > To help you learn.
                                    >
                                    > Gaurav> If you can write better code, you better write one. The
                                    time and
                                    > Gaurav> efforts you spend in writing, you could have written code
                                    itself.
                                    >
                                    > Perhaps, but it wouldn't have cured the problem.
                                    >
                                    > Gaurav> Also my code was to John, so that he can get some help.
                                    >
                                    > It's not helpful to show a beginner bad code. They'll merely learn
                                    how to do
                                    > something badly.
                                    >
                                    > Gaurav> Not for you to comment.
                                    >
                                    > Everything you write here is subject to comment. Including what
                                    I'm writing
                                    > here.
                                    >
                                    > If you're a beginner, *read* the list.
                                    > If you're a beginner, *do not answer*.
                                    >
                                    > Answering is for the experts. Please. Otherwise, we all suffer.
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503
                                    777 0095
                                    > <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
                                    > Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
                                    > See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl
                                    training!
                                    >
                                    This poses an interesting question:
                                    When does one become qualified enough to attempt to help others?
                                    It is human nature to propose solutions to attempt help others
                                    however effective, elegant or clinically perfect those solutions
                                    might be. I was in a similar position some time ago where I attempted
                                    to help someone on this forum and was shot down in flames for not
                                    covering all possible uses of the code that I posted. That was quite
                                    a rebuff. I felt that maybe I shouldn't have stepped forward - but no
                                    one else proposed a solution. The only postings on the thread were to
                                    criticise my solution. In the field of creative teamwork it is
                                    extremely demoralising to shoot suggestions down in flames. The
                                    normal practice is to politely point out to the suggestee the
                                    weaknesses in their suggestions and suggest improvements while
                                    rewarding for their effort in order to maintain enthusiasm.
                                    That avoids a situation in which there is regarded by the team to be
                                    only one solution, one level of expertise beyond which no one is
                                    allowed pass and a reluctance for anyone to step forward again. I
                                    have worked alongside many different experienced programmers and they
                                    all have their own style, often keen to criticize others simply on
                                    the basis of style and approach. The reality is that no one has
                                    reached a level of ultimate perfection and therefore we are all open
                                    to be criticized.
                                    There are some experienced Perl authors who contribute to this forum
                                    and many of us have benefited from their assistance for which I, for
                                    one am very grateful. However we should all remember the saying "Give
                                    instruction to a wise man and he will be yet wiser".
                                  • merlyn@stonehenge.com
                                    ... kenshail2003 This poses an interesting question: kenshail2003 When does one become qualified enough to attempt to help others? First, you shouldn t be
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Aug 16, 2006
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                                      >>>>> "kenshail2003" == kenshail2003 <ken@...> writes:
                                      kenshail2003> This poses an interesting question:
                                      kenshail2003> When does one become qualified enough to attempt to help others?

                                      First, you shouldn't be surprised at *most* of the other answers. If the
                                      answers are still mostly teaching you things, then you're not ready.

                                      Second, if you post a wrong answer and get rebuffed by an expert *and then get
                                      indignant about it*, you're also not ready. Part of being an expert is
                                      knowing that you too, can be wrong.

                                      Third, if you post an answer, and although it works, a lot of the other
                                      answers have much better ways of doing it, you might not quite be an expert
                                      yet. Again, kick back and learn.

                                      Fourth, if you post an answer, but the original poster gives you negative
                                      feedback *or no feedback*, you're also probably not ready. If what you post
                                      gives a good enough answer, you'll almost always get some positive feedback
                                      (in my experience of many years of being an answerer).

                                      That's not a prepared list. Just thinking about the question, that's
                                      what comes up.

                                      --
                                      Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
                                      <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
                                      Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
                                      See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
                                    • Mike Southern
                                      ... Answer: at the point when one can explain what and why they are presenting a solution and can demonstrate that the solution will stand up to design abuse
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Aug 16, 2006
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                                        On 8/16/06 3:21 PM, kenshail2003 at ken@... wrote:

                                        > This poses an interesting question:
                                        > When does one become qualified enough to attempt to help others?

                                        Answer: at the point when one can explain what and why they are presenting a
                                        solution and can demonstrate that the solution will stand up to design abuse
                                        testing. Minimum requirement.

                                        This isn't a team forum - a group of volunteers combining effort toward a
                                        common end. We're individuals most of which trying to get answers to real
                                        problems. It's not a forum where "best guess" will do, or "I'll post because
                                        no-one else has" is valid.

                                        The example that triggered this particular thread response is one of many
                                        and follows a sorry pattern of badly defined questions ("Hi, I have a
                                        problem, and I'm not going to tell you everything, and I want you to solve
                                        it for me, so I don't have to think. Oh and I need it now") followed by
                                        badly devised, faulty logic solutions that have never been tested and don't
                                        work.

                                        At the very least, what "qualifies" someone to help out with an answer
                                        should be "does the code work?". But that is a very poor and low standard
                                        and should be avoided as a norm.

                                        In supplying answers that include code, there really are only a few correct
                                        ways. That perl enables a variety of solutions doesn't mean all those
                                        solutions can be scrappily developed or written. And really there are only a
                                        few here qualified to teach the correct methods. If you - or I, or anyone -
                                        take on the reponsibility of posting solution code we had better get it
                                        absolutely right because otherwise we really are growing bad seed examples.

                                        However - and this is a big point - most of the questions/answers posted
                                        here are not code problems, they are logic problems. The problems are that
                                        of finding algorithmic solutions which when found almost write the code
                                        themselves. And to that point almost anybody with intelligence can think of
                                        a solution which then leads to refinement and code generation. Unfortunately
                                        this particular environment wants scrappy is, as scrappy does - a quick fix
                                        code solution rather than well planned logic and accurate help with
                                        resulting perl code.

                                        It is the point of senior programmers who place themselves at the mercy of
                                        juniors to make life miserable for those who don't think properly or make
                                        wrong assumptions. That fireplace is where we learn. It's not a dinner party
                                        <g> ...
                                      • srini
                                        Hi Friends Here is NASA took picture in space attached, it is really good. Srini ... Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Sep 20, 2007
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                                          Hi Friends
                                          Here is NASA took picture in space attached, it is really good.


                                          Srini


                                          ---------------------------------
                                          Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

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