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Re: [PBML] get a contract

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  • Richard Taylor
    Hello, I would have to say the standard wage is going to vary so widely that no one on this list can predict it. In my local area, the Bay Area, CA, home of
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 30, 2001
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      Hello,

      I would have to say the standard wage is going to vary so widely that no one
      on this list can predict it. In my local area, the Bay Area, CA, home of
      Silicon Valley and the now defunct South of Market I have seen a very wide
      range over time. I have seen programmers (not just PERL programmers)
      getting between $5/hr and $400/hr. It really depends on what one can do,
      how good they are at it, etc. With the $400/hr contracts they were
      programmers straight out of a Stanford PHD program (at 21 or 22 by the way)
      that had a couple of years with a company like Sun Microsystems and then
      went contract (with Sun) -- these guys were doing really high-level Java as
      well as working on the language itself, porting it to Solaris, etc...
      Chances are these guys were so good they didn't even check references. :-)

      So, to get a contract. Probably your first contract would be installing
      formMail. I usually charge an hourly rate for the work I do others charge a
      flat rate. Personally I can't acurately predict how long most of the
      projects I work on are going to take so if I do take a fixed rate I write a
      contract specifically saying what I am going to do and if the client decides
      to change we need to negotiate additional payment.

      I would say to start out you need to find a friend that needs an email form
      on there web-site. Most people do, and you can install it and get it up and
      running. Then you have your first reference, continue doing this and
      building references. Eventually you will start having people paying you.
      What is really going to help though is getting a job with a company for a
      while, preferably one working on brand-names you've heard of.

      Skillset necessary to work - I think the more you know the more likely you
      are to get work. As the other responder said you need to know a fair amount
      to be a contractor these days. As an idea of what a position working for
      the National Gov't here, I've posted a listing at the end -- Computer
      Systems Engineer II... Another great place to look for the skillsets
      required on a regular basis is www.craigslist.org . They regularly have
      open source jobs listed.

      Payment -- Most people are not going to pay you via PayPal. If they did it
      would go to your Savings or Checking account, the CC is not necessary. Most
      people will have you invoice them and they will send you a check. I have
      been lucky (in that I am usually paid fairly rapidly, 15 days or less after
      my invoice), but a lot of people have to wait months before they receive the
      first check. This really depends on how the company works...

      Sorry to inundate the list with all this talk... I guess I struggled like
      Hell to become a computer contractor and I have a lot of experience to
      share.

      Regards,

      Richard



      Job Details

      Computer Systems Engr II
      Requisition Number: 013915
      Division: Physical Biosciences
      Date Opened: 07/27/2001

      Note: This is a one-year term appointment with the possibility of renewal
      contingent upon continued funding and satisfactory performance.

      Duties: As a member of the Berkeley Center for Structural Biology (BCSB) at
      the Advanced Light Source, provide computer systems support for users at the
      BCSB. Work with the BCSB group leader and other BCSB scientists and
      engineers, as well as members of the ALS Control Systems and Experimental
      Systems groups to develop computational methodology and instrumentation for
      collecting and analyzing crystallographic data using synchrotron radiation.
      Provide computer support for projects involving the structure determination
      of biological molecules and biomolecular complexes Essential- Lead
      responsibilities for the development of software for integration of data
      collection, data processing, and data archiving Development and
      implementation of database system for automated laboratory systems and x-ray
      data collection systems · Development of interface to expert systems for
      optimizing data collection and processing at the BCSB/ALS Development and
      maintenance of computer environment for high-throughput biological
      crystallography Development of graphical user interface for crystallographic
      data collection and processing Development and maintenance of computer
      environment for operational high-throughput biological crystallography
      beamlines · Work closely with users to establish system specifications and
      resolve problems and handle issues. Assist in preparation of scientific data
      for publication in outside journals; may represent the BCSB and present
      findings and information on computer support activities at seminars and
      conferences.

      Qualifications: Essential-- Broad and in-depth knowledge and technical
      expertise to support experimental physics, preferably including
      synchrotron-based biological crystallography, using complex instrumentation
      and computer control systems· Familiarity with database systems such as
      MySQL, Oracle, etc.Familiarity with one or more computer languages,
      including C/C++, Perl,Tcl/Tk, Python, or Java Strong written communication
      skills along with strong organizational, analytical, and interpersonal
      skills · Ability to work in a team environment and effectively interact with
      a broad range of colleagues

      Marginal:--Advanced degree in computer science, physics, biology,
      bioengineering or related experience Experience in the use of computer
      programs required for biological crystallography.




      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "gordon stewart" <gordonisnz@...>
      To: <perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 6:16 AM
      Subject: Re: [PBML] get a contract


      > --- Bompa <bompa@...> wrote: >
      > cmason@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > > Speaking of contracts, where does one find a Perl
      > > programming contract?, how much
      > > does a Perl programmer charge?, and what skill-level
      > > is needed, realistically, before
      > > one tries to hire themself out?
      > >
      > > Bompa
      >
      > Hi - I havnt been paid before, But how much is
      > "standard" for installing scripts (already written)
      >
      > I may be paid in future - Not sure...
      >
      > & whats the best way to get paid ?
      > Ive heard of "paypal" (on Yahoo) - But dont you need a
      > credit-card - to convert it into $$$$ ?
      >
      > G.
      >
      >
      > =====
      > G. Stewart
      > New Zealand chat & Discussion group email
      > new_zealand-help@yahoogroups.com for details.
      >
      > http://travel.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Travel
      > - Got Itchy feet? Get inspired!
      >
    • Bompa
      The skill sets that I ve seen ask for 4 or 5 languages, which leaves me out for sure. I was wondering though, are there not opportunities where a client would
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 31, 2001
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        The skill sets that I've seen ask for 4 or 5 languages, which leaves
        me out for sure. I was wondering though, are there not opportunities
        where a client would need some work done while leaving the language up to
        the programmer? (Like your example of installing a formmail cgi for a
        friend.) That's the situation that I would need... freelance work.

        Thanks,
        Bompa



        Richard Taylor wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        >
        > I would have to say the standard wage is going to vary so widely that no one
        > on this list can predict it. In my local area, the Bay Area, CA, home of
        > Silicon Valley and the now defunct South of Market I have seen a very wide
        > range over time. I have seen programmers (not just PERL programmers)
        > getting between $5/hr and $400/hr. It really depends on what one can do,
        > how good they are at it, etc. With the $400/hr contracts they were
        > programmers straight out of a Stanford PHD program (at 21 or 22 by the way)
        > that had a couple of years with a company like Sun Microsystems and then
        > went contract (with Sun) -- these guys were doing really high-level Java as
        > well as working on the language itself, porting it to Solaris, etc...
        > Chances are these guys were so good they didn't even check references. :-)
        >
        > So, to get a contract. Probably your first contract would be installing
        > formMail. I usually charge an hourly rate for the work I do others charge a
        > flat rate. Personally I can't acurately predict how long most of the
        > projects I work on are going to take so if I do take a fixed rate I write a
        > contract specifically saying what I am going to do and if the client decides
        > to change we need to negotiate additional payment.
        >
        > I would say to start out you need to find a friend that needs an email form
        > on there web-site. Most people do, and you can install it and get it up and
        > running. Then you have your first reference, continue doing this and
        > building references. Eventually you will start having people paying you.
        > What is really going to help though is getting a job with a company for a
        > while, preferably one working on brand-names you've heard of.
        >
        > Skillset necessary to work - I think the more you know the more likely you
        > are to get work. As the other responder said you need to know a fair amount
        > to be a contractor these days. As an idea of what a position working for
        > the National Gov't here, I've posted a listing at the end -- Computer
        > Systems Engineer II... Another great place to look for the skillsets
        > required on a regular basis is www.craigslist.org . They regularly have
        > open source jobs listed.
        >
        > Payment -- Most people are not going to pay you via PayPal. If they did it
        > would go to your Savings or Checking account, the CC is not necessary. Most
        > people will have you invoice them and they will send you a check. I have
        > been lucky (in that I am usually paid fairly rapidly, 15 days or less after
        > my invoice), but a lot of people have to wait months before they receive the
        > first check. This really depends on how the company works...
        >
        > Sorry to inundate the list with all this talk... I guess I struggled like
        > Hell to become a computer contractor and I have a lot of experience to
        > share.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Richard
        >
        > Job Details
        >
        > Computer Systems Engr II
        > Requisition Number: 013915
        > Division: Physical Biosciences
        > Date Opened: 07/27/2001
        >
        > Note: This is a one-year term appointment with the possibility of renewal
        > contingent upon continued funding and satisfactory performance.
        >
        > Duties: As a member of the Berkeley Center for Structural Biology (BCSB) at
        > the Advanced Light Source, provide computer systems support for users at the
        > BCSB. Work with the BCSB group leader and other BCSB scientists and
        > engineers, as well as members of the ALS Control Systems and Experimental
        > Systems groups to develop computational methodology and instrumentation for
        > collecting and analyzing crystallographic data using synchrotron radiation.
        > Provide computer support for projects involving the structure determination
        > of biological molecules and biomolecular complexes Essential- Lead
        > responsibilities for the development of software for integration of data
        > collection, data processing, and data archiving Development and
        > implementation of database system for automated laboratory systems and x-ray
        > data collection systems · Development of interface to expert systems for
        > optimizing data collection and processing at the BCSB/ALS Development and
        > maintenance of computer environment for high-throughput biological
        > crystallography Development of graphical user interface for crystallographic
        > data collection and processing Development and maintenance of computer
        > environment for operational high-throughput biological crystallography
        > beamlines · Work closely with users to establish system specifications and
        > resolve problems and handle issues. Assist in preparation of scientific data
        > for publication in outside journals; may represent the BCSB and present
        > findings and information on computer support activities at seminars and
        > conferences.
        >
        > Qualifications: Essential-- Broad and in-depth knowledge and technical
        > expertise to support experimental physics, preferably including
        > synchrotron-based biological crystallography, using complex instrumentation
        > and computer control systems· Familiarity with database systems such as
        > MySQL, Oracle, etc.Familiarity with one or more computer languages,
        > including C/C++, Perl,Tcl/Tk, Python, or Java Strong written communication
        > skills along with strong organizational, analytical, and interpersonal
        > skills · Ability to work in a team environment and effectively interact with
        > a broad range of colleagues
        >
        > Marginal:--Advanced degree in computer science, physics, biology,
        > bioengineering or related experience Experience in the use of computer
        > programs required for biological crystallography.
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "gordon stewart" <gordonisnz@...>
        > To: <perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 6:16 AM
        > Subject: Re: [PBML] get a contract
        >
        > > --- Bompa <bompa@...> wrote: >
        > > cmason@... wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > > Speaking of contracts, where does one find a Perl
        > > > programming contract?, how much
        > > > does a Perl programmer charge?, and what skill-level
        > > > is needed, realistically, before
        > > > one tries to hire themself out?
        > > >
        > > > Bompa
        > >
        > > Hi - I havnt been paid before, But how much is
        > > "standard" for installing scripts (already written)
        > >
        > > I may be paid in future - Not sure...
        > >
        > > & whats the best way to get paid ?
        > > Ive heard of "paypal" (on Yahoo) - But dont you need a
        > > credit-card - to convert it into $$$$ ?
        > >
        > > G.
        > >
        > >
        > > =====
        > > G. Stewart
        > > New Zealand chat & Discussion group email
        > > new_zealand-help@yahoogroups.com for details.
        > >
        > > http://travel.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Travel
        > > - Got Itchy feet? Get inspired!
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

        --

        http://www.afreeirc.net/
        New IRC network dedicated to democracy.
      • gordon stewart
        ... Hello, ...
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 31, 2001
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          --- Richard Taylor <richttaylor@...> wrote: >
          Hello,
          >
          > I would have to say the standard wage is going to
          > vary so widely that no one
          > on this list can predict it. In my local area, the
          > Bay Area, CA, home of

          <

          Thanks - a lot of useful info there, - I'll first
          start building up references - Then the rest will
          happen...
          (I know a 'fair bit' (Though im no expert) - But no
          "professonal" stuff.. as yet)

          G.

          <cut>


          =====
          G. Stewart
          New Zealand chat & Discussion group email
          new_zealand-help@yahoogroups.com for details.
        • Richard Taylor
          Yes, these situations happen all the time once you have the experience. The main thing is to start doing freelance for a friend (or a friends associate).
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 31, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            Yes, these situations happen all the time once you have the experience. The
            main thing is to start doing freelance for a friend (or a friends
            associate). Then go from there...

            Regards,

            Richard

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Bompa" <bompa@...>
            To: <perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:00 AM
            Subject: Re: [PBML] get a contract


            > The skill sets that I've seen ask for 4 or 5 languages, which leaves
            > me out for sure. I was wondering though, are there not opportunities
            > where a client would need some work done while leaving the language up to
            > the programmer? (Like your example of installing a formmail cgi for a
            > friend.) That's the situation that I would need... freelance work.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Bompa
            >
            >
            >
            > Richard Taylor wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello,
            > >
            > > I would have to say the standard wage is going to vary so widely that no
            one
            > > on this list can predict it. In my local area, the Bay Area, CA, home
            of
            > > Silicon Valley and the now defunct South of Market I have seen a very
            wide
            > > range over time. I have seen programmers (not just PERL programmers)
            > > getting between $5/hr and $400/hr. It really depends on what one can
            do,
            > > how good they are at it, etc. With the $400/hr contracts they were
            > > programmers straight out of a Stanford PHD program (at 21 or 22 by the
            way)
            > > that had a couple of years with a company like Sun Microsystems and then
            > > went contract (with Sun) -- these guys were doing really high-level Java
            as
            > > well as working on the language itself, porting it to Solaris, etc...
            > > Chances are these guys were so good they didn't even check references.
            :-)
            > >
            > > So, to get a contract. Probably your first contract would be installing
            > > formMail. I usually charge an hourly rate for the work I do others
            charge a
            > > flat rate. Personally I can't acurately predict how long most of the
            > > projects I work on are going to take so if I do take a fixed rate I
            write a
            > > contract specifically saying what I am going to do and if the client
            decides
            > > to change we need to negotiate additional payment.
            > >
            > >

            <!-- chopped off to lighten email -->
          • Richard Taylor
            I append: Not all the time but a fair amount of the time if you apply yourself and work hard :-) ... From: Richard Taylor To:
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 31, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              I append:

              Not "all the time" but a fair amount of the time if you apply yourself and
              work hard :-)

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Richard Taylor" <richttaylor@...>
              To: <perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:47 PM
              Subject: Re: [PBML] get a contract


              > Yes, these situations happen all the time once you have the experience.
              The
              > main thing is to start doing freelance for a friend (or a friends
              > associate). Then go from there...
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Richard
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Bompa" <bompa@...>
              > To: <perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:00 AM
              > Subject: Re: [PBML] get a contract
              >
              >
              > > The skill sets that I've seen ask for 4 or 5 languages, which leaves
              > > me out for sure. I was wondering though, are there not opportunities
              > > where a client would need some work done while leaving the language up
              to
              > > the programmer? (Like your example of installing a formmail cgi for a
              > > friend.) That's the situation that I would need... freelance work.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > > Bompa
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Richard Taylor wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hello,
              > > >
              > > > I would have to say the standard wage is going to vary so widely that
              no
              > one
              > > > on this list can predict it. In my local area, the Bay Area, CA, home
              > of
              > > > Silicon Valley and the now defunct South of Market I have seen a very
              > wide
              > > > range over time. I have seen programmers (not just PERL programmers)
              > > > getting between $5/hr and $400/hr. It really depends on what one can
              > do,
              > > > how good they are at it, etc. With the $400/hr contracts they were
              > > > programmers straight out of a Stanford PHD program (at 21 or 22 by the
              > way)
              > > > that had a couple of years with a company like Sun Microsystems and
              then
              > > > went contract (with Sun) -- these guys were doing really high-level
              Java
              > as
              > > > well as working on the language itself, porting it to Solaris, etc...
              > > > Chances are these guys were so good they didn't even check references.
              > :-)
              > > >
              > > > So, to get a contract. Probably your first contract would be
              installing
              > > > formMail. I usually charge an hourly rate for the work I do others
              > charge a
              > > > flat rate. Personally I can't acurately predict how long most of the
              > > > projects I work on are going to take so if I do take a fixed rate I
              > write a
              > > > contract specifically saying what I am going to do and if the client
              > decides
              > > > to change we need to negotiate additional payment.
              > > >
              > > >
              >
              > <!-- chopped off to lighten email -->
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
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