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Re: [PBML] Automate operation on web sites

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  • Shlomi Fish
    Hi Randal! ... There is no need for such tone. Implying that mauro may be a spammer is not likely to make him want to learn more about Perl 5. There are many
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 27, 2010
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      Hi Randal!

      On Wednesday 27 Jan 2010 16:44:43 merlyn@... wrote:
      > >>>>> "mauro" == mauro list <mauro.list@...> writes:
      > mauro> I would like to automate, by building some ad-hoc scripts, some
      > operations I have to do at the moment using a web browser. mauro> I would
      > need to:
      > mauro> -login
      > mauro> -select some radio buttons
      > mauro> -fill some field in the web pages
      > mauro> -submit the forms
      > mauro> -check the result
      >
      > mauro> Is perl the right choice to do this?
      > mauro> Is there any CPAN module which could help me doing this?
      >
      > This is exactly what a spammer would do to spam forum posts.
      >
      > Since we don't know you, helping you may be harming the internet.
      >

      There is no need for such tone. Implying that mauro may be a spammer is not
      likely to make him want to learn more about Perl 5. There are many legitimate
      uses to the use case that they described , and it is unlikely that a spammer
      would ask for help on such a high-profile, public, archived and open, mailing
      list. (And if he does, he's stupid and will be sacked soon.)

      > Please elaborate some more about what you are trying to do, and
      > why it has to be done through a web interface instead of talking
      > directly to your databases, etc.

      Well, if I had a web-app, I wouldn't want to futz directly with the database,
      because the logic behind the forms may be complex and communicating with the
      database directly may cause errors.

      Nevertheless, it is possible one's web-application provides a web API (REST,
      SOAP, XML-RPC, etc.) that can be used instead of HTML-scraping. If so, one
      should investigate how to use it instead.

      Regards,

      Shlomi Fish

      --
      -----------------------------------------------------------------
      Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
      Rethinking CPAN - http://shlom.in/rethinking-cpan

      Deletionists delete Wikipedia articles that they consider lame.
      Chuck Norris deletes deletionists whom he considers lame.

      Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
    • merlyn@stonehenge.com
      ... Shlomi and it is unlikely that a spammer would ask for help on such a Shlomi high-profile, public, archived and open, mailing list. (And if he Shlomi
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 27, 2010
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        >>>>> "Shlomi" == Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> writes:

        Shlomi> and it is unlikely that a spammer would ask for help on such a
        Shlomi> high-profile, public, archived and open, mailing list. (And if he
        Shlomi> does, he's stupid and will be sacked soon.)

        Maybe he is, and I'm helping him get sacked before damage is done.

        Truly, if you don't see the potential damage you do by naively answering
        questions for dangerous people, you are part of the problem, not part
        of the solution.

        I *must* question whether my knowledge is likely being used for good or evil,
        or I'm being unethical. I ask you to do the same.

        Perl is not trying to win any popularity contests. But Perl *can* damage the
        internet. Be very careful with your tools and your assistance.

        --
        Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
        <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
        Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
        See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
      • Shlomi Fish
        ... Knowledge can be used for good or evil. So can many other tools. You can club someone with a hammer or devastate their house. You can use a web browser
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 27, 2010
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          On Wednesday 27 Jan 2010 18:45:26 merlyn@... wrote:
          > >>>>> "Shlomi" == Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> writes:
          > Shlomi> and it is unlikely that a spammer would ask for help on such a
          > Shlomi> high-profile, public, archived and open, mailing list. (And if he
          > Shlomi> does, he's stupid and will be sacked soon.)
          >
          > Maybe he is, and I'm helping him get sacked before damage is done.
          >
          > Truly, if you don't see the potential damage you do by naively answering
          > questions for dangerous people, you are part of the problem, not part
          > of the solution.
          >
          > I *must* question whether my knowledge is likely being used for good or
          > evil, or I'm being unethical. I ask you to do the same.
          >

          Knowledge can be used for good or evil. So can many other tools. You can club
          someone with a hammer or devastate their house. You can use a web browser such
          as Firefox to perform all kinds of nasty activity such as sabotaging wikis or
          posting hate-speech. You can use perl for doing all sorts of nasty activity
          such as sending spam. That does not make perl, Firefox or hammers evil - they
          are just tools.

          I've written a Perl tutorial and placed it online on
          http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Newbies/ under the public domain.
          People can use it to learn Perl and then go on and use that knowledge to
          become spammers, crackers, or other criminals. Should I make sure that only
          benevolent people can read my tutorial, so it won't be abused? People can also
          read your books or other technical and use that knowledge for ill. Trying to
          enforce an ethical use of our tools and knowledge is ridiculous.

          > Perl is not trying to win any popularity contests. But Perl *can* damage
          > the internet. Be very careful with your tools and your assistance.

          The way I see it, we are trying to make Perl as popular as possible. Perl can
          damage the Internet, but so can Python, Ruby, C, Lua, Lisp, Haskell, Erlang,
          Squeak Smalltalk or whatever, and spammers, crackers, phishers and other
          Internet criminals already have all the necessary knowledge for doing that
          without our help. But it's no excuse to accuse innocent people who want to get
          help of having malicious intentions, because this is quite likely going to
          deter them from wanting to learn Perl.

          If someone asks for my help and I help him with doing a task that can have
          many legitimate uses, and they turn out to be a criminal, then I cannot be
          accused of aiding crime. On the other hand, if someone asks for my help and
          he's innocent, and I've started interrogating him about his intentions, then I
          am guilty of not making him feel welcome.

          Regards,

          Shlomi Fish

          --
          -----------------------------------------------------------------
          Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
          "Star Trek: We, the Living Dead" - http://shlom.in/st-wtld

          Deletionists delete Wikipedia articles that they consider lame.
          Chuck Norris deletes deletionists whom he considers lame.

          Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
        • Mauro Gatti
          Just to close the issue... I posted a question which I definitely think doesn t brake any rule of the forum. People is free to answer, ask for clarification or
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 27, 2010
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            Just to close the issue...
            I posted a question which I definitely think doesn't brake any rule of the forum.
            People is free to answer, ask for clarification or be silent.
            To imply I am a spammer isn't polite of course but I can survive.
            Anyway I gave my reason without telling anything more (up to now).
            So now, I would like to come back to the matter of my question full stop.

            Thanks

            Regards

            Mauro






            ________________________________
            From: Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn@...>
            To: Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...>
            Cc: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com; mauro.list <mauro.list@...>
            Sent: Wed, January 27, 2010 5:45:26 PM
            Subject: Re: [PBML] Automate operation on web sites

            >>>>> "Shlomi" == Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> writes:

            Shlomi> and it is unlikely that a spammer would ask for help on such a
            Shlomi> high-profile, public, archived and open, mailing list. (And if he
            Shlomi> does, he's stupid and will be sacked soon.)

            Maybe he is, and I'm helping him get sacked before damage is done.

            Truly, if you don't see the potential damage you do by naively answering
            questions for dangerous people, you are part of the problem, not part
            of the solution.

            I *must* question whether my knowledge is likely being used for good or evil,
            or I'm being unethical. I ask you to do the same.

            Perl is not trying to win any popularity contests. But Perl *can* damage the
            internet. Be very careful with your tools and your assistance.

            --
            Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
            <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
            Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
            See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Shlomi Fish
            ... Hi Mauro! See what Jeff and I told you about it here: * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/perl-beginner/message/26775 *
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 27, 2010
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              On Wednesday 27 Jan 2010 19:57:44 Mauro Gatti wrote:
              > Just to close the issue...
              > I posted a question which I definitely think doesn't brake any rule of the
              > forum. People is free to answer, ask for clarification or be silent.
              > To imply I am a spammer isn't polite of course but I can survive.
              > Anyway I gave my reason without telling anything more (up to now).
              > So now, I would like to come back to the matter of my question full stop.
              >

              Hi Mauro!

              See what Jeff and I told you about it here:

              * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/perl-beginner/message/26775

              * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/perl-beginner/message/26777

              Regards,

              Shlomi Fish


              --
              -----------------------------------------------------------------
              Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
              List of Portability Libraries - http://shlom.in/port-libs

              Deletionists delete Wikipedia articles that they consider lame.
              Chuck Norris deletes deletionists whom he considers lame.

              Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
            • Mauro Gatti
              Hi all, I m trying to install via CPAN shell the module DBD::JDBC but I get this error: CPAN.pm: Going to build V/VI/VIZDOM/DBD-JDBC-0.71.tar.gz Checking if
              Message 6 of 11 , May 19 5:32 AM
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                Hi all,
                I'm trying to install via CPAN shell the module DBD::JDBC but I get this error:

                CPAN.pm: Going to build V/VI/VIZDOM/DBD-JDBC-0.71.tar.gz

                Checking if your kit is complete...
                Looks good
                Multiple copies of Driver.xst found in: /usr/lib64/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/x86_64-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBI/ /usr/lib64/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/x86_64-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBI/ at Makefile.PL line 22
                Using DBI 1.611 (for perl 5.008008 on x86_64-linux-thread-multi) installed in /usr/lib64/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/x86_64-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBI/
                Writing Makefile for DBD::JDBC
                cp JDBC.pod blib/lib/DBD/JDBC.pod
                cp JDBC.pm blib/lib/DBD/JDBC.pm
                cp lib/Bundle/DBD/JDBC.pm blib/lib/Bundle/DBD/JDBC.pm
                Manifying blib/man3/DBD::JDBC.3pm
                Manifying blib/man3/Bundle::DBD::JDBC.3pm
                VIZDOM/DBD-JDBC-0.71.tar.gz
                /usr/bin/make -- OK
                Running make test
                PERL_DL_NONLAZY=1 CLASSPATH=dbd_jdbc.jar:t/hsqldb/hsqldb-1.8.0.2.jar:t/hsqldb/log4j-1.2.13.jar: /usr/bin/perl "-MExtUtils::Command::MM" "-e" "test_harness(0, 'blib/lib', 'blib/arch')" t/*.t
                t/01_env.t ...... ok
                t/02_connect.t .. 3/5 DBD::JDBC::dr connect warning: No driver found for jdbc:hsqldb:file:t/hsqldb/testdb at /usr/lib64/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/x86_64-linux-thread-multi/DBI.pm line 655.

                # Failed test 'connected'
                # at t/02_connect.t line 40.
                # Connection error: No driver found found



                Could you help me to solve this issue?

                Thank You

                Regards

                Mauro





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