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Faith restored..

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  • fkleinbu@lazy-kay.com
    Recently I posted a question to the list asking for another way to write some code, tighter than the solution I had posted.. The replies I initially received
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 31, 2006
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      Recently I posted a question to the list asking for another way to write
      some
      code, tighter than the solution I had posted.. The replies I initially received

      were very troubling.. Basically I was told why worry about it?? I know these

      days, RAM is cheap, and with terabyte disc drives on the market, so is disk

      space, who cares about a few more bytes in your code.. I was really
      disappointed in the replies and even talked about them to a non-computer

      literate friend yesterday evening..

      Well I guess I am just an old throw back; one who believes ?it can always
      be
      written in less lines?.. When I was learning to code, admittedly many years

      ago, the programs we provided were naturally graded for functionality, but

      also, and just as import, they were graded for elegance and simplicity..


      Perhaps one of the reasons code these days code is so buggy is because more
      people don?t feel as I do.. To many folks just want to get it done and care

      less how elegant the resulting code looks.. Coding is nothing like writing..

      In writing we do much more than give instructions.. We carefully choose
      our
      works to elicit a particular response or draw a picture in the readers mind?s

      eye.. A CPU cannot get the joy of an irony, or enjoy a nice simile.. \

      Rant mode off

      I do admit I was very happy to know someone else is more willing to help,
      rather
      than to try and convince me it isn?t important.. And the beauty of it, the

      answer as even simpler than what I had conceived.. flk k
    • Peter Dominey
      While not a Perl guru, hence my subscription to this group, I have to concur with your thoughts. I too have very strong suspicion that so much of the code
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 1, 2006
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        While not a Perl guru, hence my subscription to this group, I have to
        concur with your thoughts.

        I too have very strong suspicion that so much of the code today is buggy
        and error prone because there is no strong desire or requirement to
        produce clean, efficient, tight code. I find great irony in the ever
        larger (memory, DASD etc) & more powerful systems, that provide little
        or no reduction in processing time. Hand in glove with that seems to be
        the equal tendency to produce interactive solutions to problems that
        were previously done as part of a batch or command line process. So that
        now when one describes a solution to a problem that requires the use of
        existing commands and some wrapper code it's assumed to not be a
        'proper' solution because it doesn't involve a whole re-write or a
        completely new application.

        I too don't mean this t be a rant of any sort, just an expression of
        views, and hopefully the encouragement of 'older' coding practices.

        Thanks

        Peter


        On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 15:49 -0600, fkleinbu@... wrote:
        > Recently I posted a question to the list asking for another way to write
        > some
        > code, tighter than the solution I had posted.. The replies I initially received
        >
        > were very troubling.. Basically I was told why worry about it?? I know these
        >
        > days, RAM is cheap, and with terabyte disc drives on the market, so is disk
        >
        > space, who cares about a few more bytes in your code.. I was really
        > disappointed in the replies and even talked about them to a non-computer
        >
        > literate friend yesterday evening..
        >
        > Well I guess I am just an old throw back; one who believes ?it can always
        > be
        > written in less lines?.. When I was learning to code, admittedly many years
        >
        > ago, the programs we provided were naturally graded for functionality, but
        >
        > also, and just as import, they were graded for elegance and simplicity..
        >
        >
        > Perhaps one of the reasons code these days code is so buggy is because more
        > people don?t feel as I do.. To many folks just want to get it done and care
        >
        > less how elegant the resulting code looks.. Coding is nothing like writing..
        >
        > In writing we do much more than give instructions.. We carefully choose
        > our
        > works to elicit a particular response or draw a picture in the readers mind?s
        >
        > eye.. A CPU cannot get the joy of an irony, or enjoy a nice simile.. \
        >
        > Rant mode off
        >
        > I do admit I was very happy to know someone else is more willing to help,
        > rather
        > than to try and convince me it isn?t important.. And the beauty of it, the
        >
        > answer as even simpler than what I had conceived.. flk k
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ----------------------------------------
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        >
        > ----------------------------------------
        > Scanned for Viruses! mail.dominey.biz
        --

        +----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
        | P J Dominey |
        | Independent UNIX Contractor |
        | |
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      • merlyn@stonehenge.com
        ... Peter I too have very strong suspicion that so much of the code today is buggy Peter and error prone because there is no strong desire or requirement to
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 1, 2006
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          >>>>> "Peter" == Peter Dominey <pdominey@...> writes:

          Peter> I too have very strong suspicion that so much of the code today is buggy
          Peter> and error prone because there is no strong desire or requirement to
          Peter> produce clean, efficient, tight code. I find great irony in the ever
          Peter> larger (memory, DASD etc) & more powerful systems, that provide little
          Peter> or no reduction in processing time. Hand in glove with that seems to be
          Peter> the equal tendency to produce interactive solutions to problems that
          Peter> were previously done as part of a batch or command line process. So that
          Peter> now when one describes a solution to a problem that requires the use of
          Peter> existing commands and some wrapper code it's assumed to not be a
          Peter> 'proper' solution because it doesn't involve a whole re-write or a
          Peter> completely new application.

          I still rant when someone uses a useless use of cat (described
          at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useless_use_of_cat). And the response
          I get now is "so what, it's clearer to me, and CPU is cheap". Kids.
          Get off my lawn. And turn that music down.

          :-)

          --
          Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
          <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
          Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
          See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
        • fkleinbu@lazy-kay.com
          ... Then you will be quite happy to know I have broken my very bad habbit of using: cat |grep .. It was just the way the instructor showed
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 1, 2006
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            >From: merlyn@...
            >Date: 01 Feb 2006 07:36:15 -0800
            >
            >I still rant when someone uses a useless use of cat (described
            >at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useless_use_of_cat). And the response
            >I get now is "so what, it's clearer to me, and CPU is cheap". Kids.
            >Get off my lawn. And turn that music down.
            >
            >:-)

            Then you will be quite happy to know I have broken my very bad habbit
            of using:

            cat <some filename>|grep <args>..

            It was just the way the instructor showed us (back in '84) and I've
            stuck with it until most recently.. And sorry, though approaching 2
            score and 10, I still like my music up real loud <grin>.. flk k
          • fkleinbu@lazy-kay.com
            ... I ve been told a guru is one who knows 10% more than the person asking the question .. ... [snip] I was recently tasked to re-write a shell script
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 1, 2006
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              >From: Peter Dominey <pdominey@...>
              >Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 09:29:09 -0600
              >
              >
              >While not a Perl guru, hence my subscription to this group, I have to
              >concur with your thoughts.
              >
              I've been told a guru is one who knows 10% more than the person asking
              the question <grin>..
              >
              >I too have very strong suspicion that so much of the code today is buggy
              >and error prone because there is no strong desire or requirement to
              >produce clean, efficient, tight code.
              [snip]

              I was recently tasked to re-write a shell script file monitor in perl..
              Reading the shell script, I came to the point in which the code determined
              the file name, and then performed a read of the directory, loading in each
              occurance of the file name into an array, then looping though the array,
              calculating how many file names were returned, and then added some logic
              to
              get the correct file..

              While the code to do this was fairly nice and compact, the way the filename
              was constructed, there could never be more than a single file name returned..

              The whole section could have been done with a "if ( -e <filename> )".. I
              was
              in disbelief..

              flk k
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