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Re: [PBML] Variable Interpolation

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  • merlyn@stonehenge.com
    ... Shawn You should always use an argument for shift. That s a bit strong. It s accepted to leave the argument off shift when it s being used in a sane way.
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
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      >>>>> "Shawn" == Shawn Corey <shawn.corey@...> writes:

      Shawn> You should always use an argument for shift.

      That's a bit strong. It's accepted to leave the argument off shift
      when it's being used in a sane way. I presumed the original poster
      knew what he was doing, and didn't comment on that.

      --
      Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
      <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
      Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
      See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
    • Shawn Corey
      ... Yes, it s strong but all good discipline seems strong until you reap the benefits from it. I don t think it s sane for the implied behaviour of any
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
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        Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
        >>>>>>"Shawn" == Shawn Corey <shawn.corey@...> writes:
        >
        >
        > Shawn> You should always use an argument for shift.
        >
        > That's a bit strong. It's accepted to leave the argument off shift
        > when it's being used in a sane way. I presumed the original poster
        > knew what he was doing, and didn't comment on that.
        >

        Yes, it's strong but all good discipline seems strong until you reap the
        benefits from it. I don't think it's sane for the implied behaviour of
        any construct to change. What it means is that when I'm reading a
        program, I have one more thing to keep track of. Anything that reduces
        this overhead is worth the effort.

        Always write your programs as though you aren't going to see them again
        for 25 years and then have to make a critical change immediately.


        --

        Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
        --- Shawn

        "Probability is now one. Any problems that are left are your own."
        SS Heart of Gold, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_

        * Perl tutorials at http://perlmonks.org/?node=Tutorials
        * A searchable perldoc is available at http://perldoc.perl.org/
      • KalyanRaj
        Hi, Mail Meda - the following code will give you what you want....PBML. another version of code which uses hash and return sub reference { $type = shift;
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
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          Hi,

          Mail Meda - the following code will give you what you want....PBML.
          another version of code which uses hash and return
          sub reference {
          $type = shift;
          %types = (
          group => "PBML",
          lang => "Perl",
          os => "Linux"
          );
          return $types{$type};
          }
          $result = reference("group");
          print "$result\n";

          Cheers,
          KalyanRaj

          -----Original Message-----
          From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Shawn Corey
          Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 11:28 PM
          To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PBML] Variable Interpolation


          Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
          >>>>>>"Shawn" == Shawn Corey <shawn.corey@...> writes:
          >
          >
          > Shawn> You should always use an argument for shift.
          >
          > That's a bit strong. It's accepted to leave the argument off shift
          > when it's being used in a sane way. I presumed the original poster
          > knew what he was doing, and didn't comment on that.
          >

          Yes, it's strong but all good discipline seems strong until you reap the
          benefits from it. I don't think it's sane for the implied behaviour of
          any construct to change. What it means is that when I'm reading a
          program, I have one more thing to keep track of. Anything that reduces
          this overhead is worth the effort.

          Always write your programs as though you aren't going to see them again
          for 25 years and then have to make a critical change immediately.


          --

          Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
          --- Shawn

          "Probability is now one. Any problems that are left are your own."
          SS Heart of Gold, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_

          * Perl tutorials at http://perlmonks.org/?node=Tutorials
          * A searchable perldoc is available at http://perldoc.perl.org/


          Unsubscribing info is here:
          http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Jenda Krynicky
          From: Shawn Corey ... I would be a bit surprised if anyone wrote: sub foo { my $bar = shift(@_); ... and would wonder why. In this
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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            From: Shawn Corey <shawn.corey@...>
            > Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
            > >>>>>>"Shawn" == Shawn Corey <shawn.corey@...> writes:
            > >
            > >
            > > Shawn> You should always use an argument for shift.
            > >
            > > That's a bit strong. It's accepted to leave the argument off shift
            > > when it's being used in a sane way. I presumed the original poster
            > > knew what he was doing, and didn't comment on that.
            > >
            >
            > Yes, it's strong but all good discipline seems strong until you reap
            > the benefits from it. I don't think it's sane for the implied
            > behaviour of any construct to change. What it means is that when I'm
            > reading a program, I have one more thing to keep track of. Anything
            > that reduces this overhead is worth the effort.
            >
            > Always write your programs as though you aren't going to see them
            > again for 25 years and then have to make a critical change
            > immediately.

            I would be a bit surprised if anyone wrote:

            sub foo {
            my $bar = shift(@_);
            ...

            and would wonder why. In this case it's a generally accepted that the
            @_ gets omited. OTOH, I'd never make use of the fact that outside
            subroutines shift() means shift(@ARGV). That's something lots of
            people doesn't remember and something that might break easily if I
            tried to move the piece of code into a subroutine.

            Jenda
            ===== Jenda@... === http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz =====
            When it comes to wine, women and song, wizards are allowed
            to get drunk and croon as much as they like.
            -- Terry Pratchett in Sourcery
          • merlyn@stonehenge.com
            ... Jenda I would be a bit surprised if anyone wrote: Jenda sub foo { Jenda my $bar = shift(@_); Jenda ... Jenda and would wonder why. In this case
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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              >>>>> "Jenda" == Jenda Krynicky <Jenda@...> writes:

              Jenda> I would be a bit surprised if anyone wrote:

              Jenda> sub foo {
              Jenda> my $bar = shift(@_);
              Jenda> ...

              Jenda> and would wonder why. In this case it's a generally accepted that the
              Jenda> @_ gets omited. OTOH, I'd never make use of the fact that outside
              Jenda> subroutines shift() means shift(@ARGV). That's something lots of
              Jenda> people doesn't remember and something that might break easily if I
              Jenda> tried to move the piece of code into a subroutine.

              I agree with you there. However, for a five line program:

              #!/usr/bin/perl
              my $from = shift;
              my $to = shift;
              if (-e $to) { rename $to, "$to~" or warn "cannot backup $to: $!"; }
              rename $from, $to or warn "Cannot rename $from to $to: $!";

              Will anyone really not know what "shift" is doing there? Or confuse
              it with shift(@_)?

              That's the point of defaults... they're the defaults because they're
              the most common thing you would do with that operator *in that context*.

              --
              Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
              <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
              Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
              See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
            • Shawn Corey
              ... The key phrase being in that context . My issue is that the default depends on the context. If it was the same throughout the regardless of context, I
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                merlyn@... wrote:
                > That's the point of defaults... they're the defaults because they're
                > the most common thing you would do with that operator *in that context*.
                >

                The key phrase being "in that context". My issue is that the default
                depends on the context. If it was the same throughout the regardless of
                context, I wouldn't have a problem. The problem is that when I see a
                naked shift, I have to stop and remember the context. One more thing to
                worry about while reading a program.


                --

                Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
                --- Shawn

                "Probability is now one. Any problems that are left are your own."
                SS Heart of Gold, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_

                * Perl tutorials at http://perlmonks.org/?node=Tutorials
                * A searchable perldoc is available at http://perldoc.perl.org/
              • merlyn@stonehenge.com
                ... Shawn The key phrase being in that context . My issue is that the default Shawn depends on the context. If it was the same throughout the regardless of
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                  >>>>> "Shawn" == Shawn Corey <shawn.corey@...> writes:

                  Shawn> The key phrase being "in that context". My issue is that the default
                  Shawn> depends on the context. If it was the same throughout the regardless of
                  Shawn> context, I wouldn't have a problem. The problem is that when I see a
                  Shawn> naked shift, I have to stop and remember the context. One more thing to
                  Shawn> worry about while reading a program.

                  That's why I said "10 line program". If this were a 200 line program,
                  I wouldn't bury "shift" in the middle, unless it was within 10 lines
                  of the start of a subroutine.

                  I believe it is reasonable to ask a programmer to look back about
                  ten lines to figure out the general flow of the program. I don't
                  think it's reasonable to have to maintain "state" further than that,
                  which is why I argue for 10-20 line subroutines instead of most of
                  the monoliths that I see most people write.

                  --
                  Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
                  <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
                  Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
                  See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
                • Shawn Corey
                  ... Large monoliths have given me the willies ever since 2001: A Space Odyssey came out ;) -- Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth, ... Probability is
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                    Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
                    > I believe it is reasonable to ask a programmer to look back about
                    > ten lines to figure out the general flow of the program. I don't
                    > think it's reasonable to have to maintain "state" further than that,
                    > which is why I argue for 10-20 line subroutines instead of most of
                    > the monoliths that I see most people write.
                    >

                    Large monoliths have given me the willies ever since "2001: A Space
                    Odyssey" came out ;)


                    --

                    Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
                    --- Shawn

                    "Probability is now one. Any problems that are left are your own."
                    SS Heart of Gold, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_

                    * Perl tutorials at http://perlmonks.org/?node=Tutorials
                    * A searchable perldoc is available at http://perldoc.perl.org/
                  • mail meda
                    Hi Frnds, Thanks for your response. Bye. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 5, 2006
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                      Hi Frnds,

                      Thanks for your response.

                      Bye.


                      On 1/4/06, Shawn Corey <shawn.corey@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
                      > > I believe it is reasonable to ask a programmer to look back about
                      > > ten lines to figure out the general flow of the program. I don't
                      > > think it's reasonable to have to maintain "state" further than that,
                      > > which is why I argue for 10-20 line subroutines instead of most of
                      > > the monoliths that I see most people write.
                      > >
                      >
                      > Large monoliths have given me the willies ever since "2001: A Space
                      > Odyssey" came out ;)
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      >
                      > Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
                      > --- Shawn
                      >
                      > "Probability is now one. Any problems that are left are your own."
                      > SS Heart of Gold, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_
                      >
                      > * Perl tutorials at http://perlmonks.org/?node=Tutorials
                      > * A searchable perldoc is available at http://perldoc.perl.org/
                      >
                      >
                      > Unsubscribing info is here:
                      > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


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