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Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!

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  • Prakash
    how can she be such a nazzi and be the owner of this group.. if i am going to be blocked for saying this please do block me .. i dont want to be in a group
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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      how can she be such a nazzi and be the owner of this group.. if i am
      going to be blocked for saying this please do block me ..

      i dont want to be in a group where a racist is the group leader..

      -prak



      hooyar66 wrote:

      >--- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Goral"
      ><subscriptions@u...>
      >wrote:
      >
      >
      >>
      >>
      >>>-----Original Message-----
      >>>From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
      >>>[mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jenda Krynicky
      >>>Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:07
      >>>To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
      >>>Subject: Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@y...>
      >>>Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>>Hi,
      >>>>
      >>>>We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
      >>>>professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >the best
      >
      >
      >>>>to work for in the world - and you will be working at their
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >Bangalore
      >
      >
      >>>>Development Center.
      >>>>
      >>>>If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >9
      >
      >
      >>>>years experience and with a strong academic background, we
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >definitely
      >
      >
      >>>>want to talk to you.
      >>>>
      >>>>Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >Thanks.
      >
      >
      >>>>Manjunath
      >>>>Alphaeus HR
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
      >>>beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected
      >>>
      >>>
      >or
      >
      >
      >>>even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a
      >>>
      >>>
      >job
      >
      >
      >>>offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
      >>>
      >>>Jenda
      >>>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
      >>>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing.
      >>>
      >>>
      >I've
      >
      >
      >>>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or
      >>>
      >>>
      >another
      >
      >
      >>>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
      >>>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not
      >>>
      >>>
      >speaking
      >
      >
      >>>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
      >>>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No
      >>>
      >>>
      >surprise
      >
      >
      >>>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
      >>>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
      >>>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
      >>>== Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
      >>>: What do people think?
      >>>What, do people think? :-)
      >>> -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@w...>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>Perhaps I'll be banned too, but...
      >>
      >>While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do
      >>
      >>
      >racial or
      >
      >
      >>personal angst posts. I do not appreciate having to stare into the
      >>
      >>
      >darkness
      >
      >
      >>of a bigoted mind.
      >>
      >>Peace -
      >>Ron Goral
      >>
      >>
      >
      >Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
      >someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype and
      >generalise one billion individuals.
      >
      >Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs
      >nothing. Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid. Expressing
      >a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is more
      >often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
      >Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the only
      >opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is
      >not the same as explaining you know better.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Vijay A Raghavan
      Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the group. P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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        Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the group.

        P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking moron !!!

        P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for being mentally unwell.

        -Vijay

        Prakash <prakash@...> wrote:
        dear jenda,

        I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
        somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-))

        inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects too

        -prak

        ateeq wrote:

        >Hello,
        >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
        >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
        >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
        >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
        >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
        >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
        >anywhere else.
        >
        >Regards to all
        >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >>From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@...>
        >>Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
        >>
        >>
        >>>Hi,
        >>>
        >>>We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
        >>>professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of the best
        >>>to work for in the world - and you will be working at their Bangalore
        >>>Development Center.
        >>>
        >>>If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to 9
        >>>years experience and with a strong academic background, we definitely
        >>>want to talk to you.
        >>>
        >>>Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone. Thanks.
        >>>
        >>>Manjunath
        >>>Alphaeus HR
        >>>
        >>>
        >>What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
        >>beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected or
        >>even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a job
        >>offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
        >>
        >>Jenda
        >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
        >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
        >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
        >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
        >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
        >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
        >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
        >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
        >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
        >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
        >>== Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
        >>: What do people think?
        >>What, do people think? :-)
        >> -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@...>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>Unsubscribing info is here:
        >>http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
        >>
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      • Grier Johnson
        ... Is this really necessary? Personal attacks are somehow better then gross generalizations? There are unsubscribe instructions at the bottom of each e-mail.
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          On 8/4/05, Vijay A Raghavan <rva_ec@...> wrote:
          > Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the group.
          >
          > P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking moron !!!
          >
          > P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for being mentally unwell.
          >
          > -Vijay

          Is this really necessary?

          Personal attacks are somehow better then gross generalizations?

          There are unsubscribe instructions at the bottom of each e-mail. I
          don't condone racism, but it's the Internet. Get over it. Responding
          with obscenities isn't going to argue your case.

          Regardless, calling everyone with a bigoted opinion a "Nazi" cheapens
          the horrors that the Nazi actually did commit. Let's review. Jenda
          said mean things on the Internet. Nazis killed millions of Jews,
          gypsies, blacks, homosexuals and handicapped persons.

          Not exactly the same thing.

          --
          Grier
        • Dave Gray
          ... Well, considering that all generalizations are false, I find it hard to agree with Jenda in the general case. There are definitely a lot of low-quality
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            > >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
            > >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
            > >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
            > >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
            > >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
            > >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
            > >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
            > >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
            > >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
            > >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
            > >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.

            > ateeq wrote:
            >
            > >Hello,
            > >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
            > >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
            > >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
            > >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
            > >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
            > >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
            > >anywhere else.
            > >
            > >Regards to all
            > >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
            > >

            > Prakash <prakash@...> wrote:
            > dear jenda,
            >
            > I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
            > somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-))
            >
            > inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects too
            >
            > -prak
            >

            On 8/4/05, Vijay A Raghavan <rva_ec@...> wrote:
            > Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the group.
            >
            > P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking moron !!!
            >
            > P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for being mentally unwell.
            >

            Well, considering that all generalizations are false, I find it hard
            to agree with Jenda in the general case. There are definitely a lot of
            low-quality programmers. Some of them happen to be Indian. By virtue
            of the fact that there are a lot of Indians, there is the potential
            for there to be a lot more bad Indian programmers than of other
            nationalities. Thus, Jenda's statements are a great example of
            converse error.

            It's too bad that you haven't worked with any good Indian programmers,
            Jenda. They are out there, contrary to what you may have experienced.
            I've worked with numerous bad American programmers too, and it's just
            as annoying.

            Dave

            P.P.S. Vijay, swearing on a public mailing list is rarely a good idea.
            It dilutes your meaning and distracts from your point.
          • Frank D. Gunseor
            Sir, Your use of common gutter language in a perl email list speaks to your lack of professionalism, education and up-bringing! FDG _____ From:
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Sir,

              Your use of common gutter language in a perl email list speaks to your lack
              of professionalism, education and up-bringing!

              FDG

              _____

              From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of Vijay A Raghavan
              Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 2:40 PM
              To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [PBML] Jenda stop your fucking mouth - You asshole - Racist Nazi


              Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the
              group.

              P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking
              moron !!!

              P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for being
              mentally unwell.

              -Vijay

              Prakash <prakash@...> wrote:
              dear jenda,

              I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
              somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-))

              inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects too

              -prak

              ateeq wrote:

              >Hello,
              >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
              >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
              >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
              >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
              >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
              >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
              >anywhere else.
              >
              >Regards to all
              >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >>From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@...>
              >>Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
              >>
              >>
              >>>Hi,
              >>>
              >>>We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
              >>>professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of the best
              >>>to work for in the world - and you will be working at their Bangalore
              >>>Development Center.
              >>>
              >>>If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to 9
              >>>years experience and with a strong academic background, we definitely
              >>>want to talk to you.
              >>>
              >>>Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone. Thanks.
              >>>
              >>>Manjunath
              >>>Alphaeus HR
              >>>
              >>>
              >>What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
              >>beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected or
              >>even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a job
              >>offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
              >>
              >>Jenda
              >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
              >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
              >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
              >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
              >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
              >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
              >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
              >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
              >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
              >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
              >>== Jenda@... == HYPERLINK
              "http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz"http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
              >>: What do people think?
              >>What, do people think? :-)
              >> -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@...>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>Unsubscribing info is here:
              >>HYPERLINK
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            • Ezra Taylor
              Hello hooyar66: What does knowing alot of perl have to do with not being a racist. Don t you know, their are racist from all academic levels. From the really
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello hooyar66:
                What does knowing alot of perl have to do
                with not being a racist. Don't you know, their are racist from all
                academic levels. From the really stupid to the most intelligent.
                Also, these sentiments have been growing about forigen workers for
                some time now. You have to blind not to have noticed this. With that
                said, I personally keep away from all racist activities; regardless
                who it comes from. Lastly, I heard asians,europeans and others refer
                to Americans as being stupid but they keep this information between
                theirselves.

                On 8/4/05, hooyar66 <pcbcad@...> wrote:
                > --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Goral"
                > <subscriptions@u...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                > > > [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jenda Krynicky
                > > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:07
                > > > To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Subject: Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@y...>
                > > > Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                > > > > Hi,
                > > > >
                > > > > We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
                > > > > professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of
                > the best
                > > > > to work for in the world - and you will be working at their
                > Bangalore
                > > > > Development Center.
                > > > >
                > > > > If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to
                > 9
                > > > > years experience and with a strong academic background, we
                > definitely
                > > > > want to talk to you.
                > > > >
                > > > > Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone.
                > Thanks.
                > > > >
                > > > > Manjunath
                > > > > Alphaeus HR
                > > >
                > > > What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
                > > > beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected
                > or
                > > > even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a
                > job
                > > > offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
                > > >
                > > > Jenda
                > > > P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
                > > > me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing.
                > I've
                > > > met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or
                > another
                > > > and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
                > > > inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not
                > speaking
                > > > about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
                > > > that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No
                > surprise
                > > > you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                > > > P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
                > > > difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
                > > > == Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                > > > : What do people think?
                > > > What, do people think? :-)
                > > > -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@w...>
                > >
                > > Perhaps I'll be banned too, but...
                > >
                > > While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do
                > racial or
                > > personal angst posts. I do not appreciate having to stare into the
                > darkness
                > > of a bigoted mind.
                > >
                > > Peace -
                > > Ron Goral
                >
                > Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
                > someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype and
                > generalise one billion individuals.
                >
                > Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs
                > nothing. Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid. Expressing
                > a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is more
                > often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
                > Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the only
                > opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is
                > not the same as explaining you know better.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • hooyar66
                ... that ... refer ... Hi Ezra I don t want to prolong the time spent here on this issue, there are plenty of more appropriate places to discuss racism etc -
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, Ezra Taylor <ezra.taylor@g...>
                  wrote:
                  > Hello hooyar66:
                  > What does knowing alot of perl have to do
                  > with not being a racist. Don't you know, their are racist from all
                  > academic levels. From the really stupid to the most intelligent.
                  > Also, these sentiments have been growing about forigen workers for
                  > some time now. You have to blind not to have noticed this. With
                  that
                  > said, I personally keep away from all racist activities; regardless
                  > who it comes from. Lastly, I heard asians,europeans and others
                  refer
                  > to Americans as being stupid but they keep this information between
                  > theirselves.
                  >

                  Hi Ezra

                  I don't want to prolong the time spent here on this issue, there are
                  plenty of more appropriate places to discuss racism etc - that said
                  in response to your post:

                  Yes I was hasty to suggest there is a link between academic
                  intelligence and racism, sorry about that - I hope I didn't offend you
                  ;-) I am not blind to the many examples of this around the world.

                  I should probably have said that a lack of common/shared experience
                  between different cultures and races is usually the cause of bigotry.
                  I am no expert on .cz but I guess there is a greater lack of
                  experience of other cultures there, than for example in the UK where
                  I live.

                  >Lastly, I heard asians,europeans and others refer
                  > to Americans as being stupid but they keep this information between
                  > theirselves.

                  As a European this is not news to me ;-) There are bigots everywhere.


                  > On 8/4/05, hooyar66 <pcbcad@h...> wrote:
                  > > --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Goral"
                  > > <subscriptions@u...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > > From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jenda
                  Krynicky
                  > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:07
                  > > > > To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > Subject: Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@y...>
                  > > > > Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                  > > > > > Hi,
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/
                  solaris
                  > > > > > professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some
                  of
                  > > the best
                  > > > > > to work for in the world - and you will be working at their
                  > > Bangalore
                  > > > > > Development Center.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with
                  3
                  to
                  > > 9
                  > > > > > years experience and with a strong academic background, we
                  > > definitely
                  > > > > > want to talk to you.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone.
                  > > Thanks.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Manjunath
                  > > > > > Alphaeus HR
                  > > > >
                  > > > > What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called
                  "perl-
                  > > > > beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are
                  expected
                  > > or
                  > > > > even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is
                  NOT a
                  > > job
                  > > > > offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Jenda
                  > > > > P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make
                  sense to
                  > > > > me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's
                  doing.
                  > > I've
                  > > > > met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or
                  > > another
                  > > > > and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was
                  long,
                  > > > > inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not
                  > > speaking
                  > > > > about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a
                  project
                  > > > > that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No
                  > > surprise
                  > > > > you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                  > > > > P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this
                  makes
                  any
                  > > > > difference with those millions of clueless Indian
                  personalists.
                  > > > > == Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                  > > > > : What do people think?
                  > > > > What, do people think? :-)
                  > > > > -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@w...>
                  > > >
                  > > > Perhaps I'll be banned too, but...
                  > > >
                  > > > While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do
                  > > racial or
                  > > > personal angst posts. I do not appreciate having to stare into
                  the
                  > > darkness
                  > > > of a bigoted mind.
                  > > >
                  > > > Peace -
                  > > > Ron Goral
                  > >
                  > > Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
                  > > someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype
                  and
                  > > generalise one billion individuals.
                  > >
                  > > Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs
                  > > nothing. Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid.
                  Expressing
                  > > a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is
                  more
                  > > often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
                  > > Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the
                  only
                  > > opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is
                  > > not the same as explaining you know better.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/
                  groups-32.html
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                • Jenda Krynicky
                  From: Prakash ... Not too personal, but you are right I was rather pissed of yesterday. Sorry. ... No, I ve had to fix some projects
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    From: Prakash <prakash@...>
                    > dear jenda,
                    >
                    > I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons.

                    Not too personal, but you are right I was rather pissed of yesterday.
                    Sorry.

                    > .i think
                    > somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you
                    > ?? :-))
                    >
                    > inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects
                    > too

                    No, I've had to fix some projects that were originaly outsourced to
                    Indian companies. And talked to coleagues that had to do the same and
                    seen the code.

                    > ateeq wrote:
                    > >Hello,
                    > >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of
                    > >temper due to an inordinate volume of spam... I agree that posting
                    > >jobs in this group is not a good thing at all. However, perhaps we
                    > >can avoid impugning people's nationalities in process. Indian
                    > >programmers are an up and coming group of folk who deserve to be
                    > >respected for their skill, just like every programmer from anywhere
                    > >else.
                    > >
                    > >Regards to all
                    > >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)

                    Yes, I lost my temper and the ad was the proverbial last drop. It's
                    true though that the only job ads I've ever seen in this group have
                    been sent by Indians and that there has lately been a large influx of
                    Indian newbies, very often lacking both humility and any basics of
                    programming. I'm sure there have been exceptions to this and I'm sure
                    it's gonna get better over time.

                    Just like you are no longer supposed to be an idiot just because your
                    email ends @... as you were shortly after AOL connected to the
                    Internet and thousands of AOLers with no netiquette swarmed the Net.

                    From: Prakash <prakash@...>
                    > how can she be such a nazzi and be the owner of this group.. if i
                    am
                    > going to be blocked for saying this please do block me ..
                    >
                    > i dont want to be in a group where a racist is the group leader..

                    It's "he", not "she". And I'm just a co-moderator.

                    From: hooyar66" <pcbcad@...>
                    > Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
                    > someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype
                    > and generalise one billion individuals.

                    Could anyone explain to me what's racist on my post?

                    I've said I've never met an Indian who know what he as doing. Where's
                    there any racism in that? Where's there any generalization?

                    I've said I have met a few that were claiming to be experts and were
                    spreading nonsense. Where's the racism? Where's the generalization?

                    I've also said I've seen code by said people that was long,
                    inefficient, hard to maintan and wrong. Any racism in that? I don't
                    see it.

                    The only generalization involved the 20 indians in place of 1-2
                    programmers. Well, I based that on the projects we inherited from the
                    Indian companies TMP used to outsource to.

                    Where's the stereotype? I based my comments on my experience, not
                    some media stereotypes.

                    Ezra Taylor <ezra.taylor@...>:
                    > Also, these sentiments have been growing about forigen workers for
                    > some time now. You have to blind not to have noticed this.

                    I'm a "foreign worker" too :-P
                    This has nothing to do with job security. Neither with racism. I know
                    lots of good programmers from all over the world, I just did not meet
                    any from India.

                    I guess I'm not indoctrinated enough by the political corectness for
                    today's world. I'm used to say "this is wrong" it I think it's wrong.
                    I'm used to say "you are stupid" if I think you are stupid and I'm
                    used to say "I've never met an experienced X" if I've never met an
                    experienced X. Even if X happens to be a nationality. And even if
                    it's a nationality that has been "opressed" by the bloody white
                    Europeans. If I can say "all Newtons I know are idiots" I don't see
                    any reason why I could not say "all Indians I know are idiots". And
                    if you do consider one of the sentences racist and the other not then
                    you are the racist.

                    Anyway, sorry to all those offended. I did overreact. So did most
                    people that responded to my outburst. Shit happens.

                    Jenda
                    ===== Jenda@... === http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz =====
                    When it comes to wine, women and song, wizards are allowed
                    to get drunk and croon as much as they like.
                    -- Terry Pratchett in Sourcery
                  • Prakash
                    everything is correct about you saying what you want to say.. but remember this.. Larry Wall can call you an idiot !! millions of others can call u an idiot..
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      everything is correct about you saying what you want to say.. but
                      remember this.. Larry Wall can call you an idiot !!
                      millions of others can call u an idiot.. they dont tell because they are
                      matured and humble enough to know what to say and what not to say..

                      -prak

                      >I'm a "foreign worker" too :-P
                      >This has nothing to do with job security. Neither with racism. I know
                      >lots of good programmers from all over the world, I just did not meet
                      >any from India.
                      >
                      >I guess I'm not indoctrinated enough by the political corectness for
                      >today's world. I'm used to say "this is wrong" it I think it's wrong.
                      >I'm used to say "you are stupid" if I think you are stupid and I'm
                      >used to say "I've never met an experienced X" if I've never met an
                      >experienced X. Even if X happens to be a nationality. And even if
                      >it's a nationality that has been "opressed" by the bloody white
                      >Europeans. If I can say "all Newtons I know are idiots" I don't see
                      >any reason why I could not say "all Indians I know are idiots". And
                      >if you do consider one of the sentences racist and the other not then
                      >you are the racist.
                      >
                      >Anyway, sorry to all those offended. I did overreact. So did most
                      >people that responded to my outburst. Shit happens.
                      >
                      >Jenda
                      >===== Jenda@... === http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz =====
                      >When it comes to wine, women and song, wizards are allowed
                      >to get drunk and croon as much as they like.
                      > -- Terry Pratchett in Sourcery
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • ateeq
                      Dave makes a very valid point. We don t all need to sink into a mire of recriminations. Let s go on with learning PERL and forget about this incident. All of
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 7, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dave makes a very valid point. We don't all need to sink into a mire of
                        recriminations. Let's go on with learning PERL and forget about this
                        incident. All of us cannot afford to dwell on such things too much, the
                        viscosity of hate keeps on rising.....

                        Peace

                        Ateeq Ahmad

                        Dave Gray wrote:

                        > > >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
                        > > >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
                        > > >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
                        > > >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
                        > > >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
                        > > >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
                        > > >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
                        > > >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
                        > > >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                        > > >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
                        > > >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
                        >
                        > > ateeq wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >Hello,
                        > > >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
                        > > >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
                        > > >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
                        > > >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
                        > > >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
                        > > >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer
                        > from
                        > > >anywhere else.
                        > > >
                        > > >Regards to all
                        > > >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > Prakash <prakash@...> wrote:
                        > > dear jenda,
                        > >
                        > > I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
                        > > somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you
                        > ?? :-))
                        > >
                        > > inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get
                        > projects too
                        > >
                        > > -prak
                        > >
                        >
                        > On 8/4/05, Vijay A Raghavan <rva_ec@...> wrote:
                        > > Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself
                        > from the group.
                        > >
                        > > P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole,
                        > fucking moron !!!
                        > >
                        > > P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for
                        > being mentally unwell.
                        > >
                        >
                        > Well, considering that all generalizations are false, I find it hard
                        > to agree with Jenda in the general case. There are definitely a lot of
                        > low-quality programmers. Some of them happen to be Indian. By virtue
                        > of the fact that there are a lot of Indians, there is the potential
                        > for there to be a lot more bad Indian programmers than of other
                        > nationalities. Thus, Jenda's statements are a great example of
                        > converse error.
                        >
                        > It's too bad that you haven't worked with any good Indian programmers,
                        > Jenda. They are out there, contrary to what you may have experienced.
                        > I've worked with numerous bad American programmers too, and it's just
                        > as annoying.
                        >
                        > Dave
                        >
                        > P.P.S. Vijay, swearing on a public mailing list is rarely a good idea.
                        > It dilutes your meaning and distracts from your point.
                        >
                        >
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