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Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!

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  • hooyar66
    ... ... the best ... Bangalore ... 9 ... definitely ... Thanks. ... or ... job ... I ve ... another ... speaking ... surprise ... racial
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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      --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Goral"
      <subscriptions@u...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
      > > [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jenda Krynicky
      > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:07
      > > To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
      > >
      > >
      > > From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@y...>
      > > Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
      > > > Hi,
      > > >
      > > > We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
      > > > professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of
      the best
      > > > to work for in the world - and you will be working at their
      Bangalore
      > > > Development Center.
      > > >
      > > > If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to
      9
      > > > years experience and with a strong academic background, we
      definitely
      > > > want to talk to you.
      > > >
      > > > Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone.
      Thanks.
      > > >
      > > > Manjunath
      > > > Alphaeus HR
      > >
      > > What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
      > > beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected
      or
      > > even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a
      job
      > > offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
      > >
      > > Jenda
      > > P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
      > > me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing.
      I've
      > > met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or
      another
      > > and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
      > > inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not
      speaking
      > > about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
      > > that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No
      surprise
      > > you have to keep searching for more manpower.
      > > P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
      > > difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
      > > == Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
      > > : What do people think?
      > > What, do people think? :-)
      > > -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@w...>
      >
      > Perhaps I'll be banned too, but...
      >
      > While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do
      racial or
      > personal angst posts. I do not appreciate having to stare into the
      darkness
      > of a bigoted mind.
      >
      > Peace -
      > Ron Goral

      Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
      someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype and
      generalise one billion individuals.

      Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs
      nothing. Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid. Expressing
      a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is more
      often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
      Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the only
      opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is
      not the same as explaining you know better.
    • ateeq
      Hello, I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper due to an inordinate volume of spam... I agree that posting jobs in this group is
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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        Hello,
        I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
        due to an inordinate volume of spam...
        I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
        However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
        process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
        deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
        anywhere else.

        Regards to all
        Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)




        Jenda Krynicky wrote:

        > From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@...>
        > Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
        > > Hi,
        > >
        > > We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
        > > professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of the best
        > > to work for in the world - and you will be working at their Bangalore
        > > Development Center.
        > >
        > > If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to 9
        > > years experience and with a strong academic background, we definitely
        > > want to talk to you.
        > >
        > > Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone. Thanks.
        > >
        > > Manjunath
        > > Alphaeus HR
        >
        > What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
        > beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected or
        > even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a job
        > offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
        >
        > Jenda
        > P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
        > me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
        > met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
        > and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
        > inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
        > about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
        > that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
        > you have to keep searching for more manpower.
        > P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
        > difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
        > == Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
        > : What do people think?
        > What, do people think? :-)
        > -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@...>
        >
        >
        >
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        > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Prakash
        dear jenda, I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-)) inst
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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          dear jenda,

          I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
          somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-))

          inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects too

          -prak

          ateeq wrote:

          >Hello,
          >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
          >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
          >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
          >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
          >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
          >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
          >anywhere else.
          >
          >Regards to all
          >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >>From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@...>
          >>Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
          >>
          >>
          >>>Hi,
          >>>
          >>>We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
          >>>professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of the best
          >>>to work for in the world - and you will be working at their Bangalore
          >>>Development Center.
          >>>
          >>>If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to 9
          >>>years experience and with a strong academic background, we definitely
          >>>want to talk to you.
          >>>
          >>>Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone. Thanks.
          >>>
          >>>Manjunath
          >>>Alphaeus HR
          >>>
          >>>
          >>What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
          >>beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected or
          >>even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a job
          >>offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
          >>
          >>Jenda
          >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
          >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
          >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
          >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
          >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
          >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
          >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
          >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
          >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
          >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
          >>== Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
          >>: What do people think?
          >>What, do people think? :-)
          >> -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@...>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>Unsubscribing info is here:
          >>http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
          >>
          >>
          >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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          >>
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          >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/perl-beginner>" on the web.
          >>
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          >> <mailto:perl-beginner-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Prakash
          how can she be such a nazzi and be the owner of this group.. if i am going to be blocked for saying this please do block me .. i dont want to be in a group
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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            how can she be such a nazzi and be the owner of this group.. if i am
            going to be blocked for saying this please do block me ..

            i dont want to be in a group where a racist is the group leader..

            -prak



            hooyar66 wrote:

            >--- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Goral"
            ><subscriptions@u...>
            >wrote:
            >
            >
            >>
            >>
            >>>-----Original Message-----
            >>>From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
            >>>[mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jenda Krynicky
            >>>Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:07
            >>>To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
            >>>Subject: Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@y...>
            >>>Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>>Hi,
            >>>>
            >>>>We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
            >>>>professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >the best
            >
            >
            >>>>to work for in the world - and you will be working at their
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >Bangalore
            >
            >
            >>>>Development Center.
            >>>>
            >>>>If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >9
            >
            >
            >>>>years experience and with a strong academic background, we
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >definitely
            >
            >
            >>>>want to talk to you.
            >>>>
            >>>>Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone.
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >Thanks.
            >
            >
            >>>>Manjunath
            >>>>Alphaeus HR
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
            >>>beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected
            >>>
            >>>
            >or
            >
            >
            >>>even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a
            >>>
            >>>
            >job
            >
            >
            >>>offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
            >>>
            >>>Jenda
            >>>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
            >>>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing.
            >>>
            >>>
            >I've
            >
            >
            >>>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or
            >>>
            >>>
            >another
            >
            >
            >>>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
            >>>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not
            >>>
            >>>
            >speaking
            >
            >
            >>>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
            >>>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No
            >>>
            >>>
            >surprise
            >
            >
            >>>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
            >>>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
            >>>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
            >>>== Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
            >>>: What do people think?
            >>>What, do people think? :-)
            >>> -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@w...>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>Perhaps I'll be banned too, but...
            >>
            >>While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do
            >>
            >>
            >racial or
            >
            >
            >>personal angst posts. I do not appreciate having to stare into the
            >>
            >>
            >darkness
            >
            >
            >>of a bigoted mind.
            >>
            >>Peace -
            >>Ron Goral
            >>
            >>
            >
            >Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
            >someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype and
            >generalise one billion individuals.
            >
            >Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs
            >nothing. Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid. Expressing
            >a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is more
            >often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
            >Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the only
            >opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is
            >not the same as explaining you know better.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Vijay A Raghavan
            Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the group. P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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              Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the group.

              P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking moron !!!

              P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for being mentally unwell.

              -Vijay

              Prakash <prakash@...> wrote:
              dear jenda,

              I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
              somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-))

              inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects too

              -prak

              ateeq wrote:

              >Hello,
              >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
              >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
              >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
              >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
              >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
              >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
              >anywhere else.
              >
              >Regards to all
              >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >>From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@...>
              >>Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
              >>
              >>
              >>>Hi,
              >>>
              >>>We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
              >>>professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of the best
              >>>to work for in the world - and you will be working at their Bangalore
              >>>Development Center.
              >>>
              >>>If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to 9
              >>>years experience and with a strong academic background, we definitely
              >>>want to talk to you.
              >>>
              >>>Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone. Thanks.
              >>>
              >>>Manjunath
              >>>Alphaeus HR
              >>>
              >>>
              >>What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
              >>beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected or
              >>even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a job
              >>offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
              >>
              >>Jenda
              >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
              >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
              >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
              >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
              >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
              >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
              >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
              >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
              >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
              >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
              >>== Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
              >>: What do people think?
              >>What, do people think? :-)
              >> -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@...>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>Unsubscribing info is here:
              >>http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
              >>
              >>
              >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >>
              >> * Visit your group "perl-beginner
              >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/perl-beginner>" on the web.
              >>
              >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >> perl-beginner-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >> <mailto:perl-beginner-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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              >> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
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              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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            • Grier Johnson
              ... Is this really necessary? Personal attacks are somehow better then gross generalizations? There are unsubscribe instructions at the bottom of each e-mail.
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                On 8/4/05, Vijay A Raghavan <rva_ec@...> wrote:
                > Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the group.
                >
                > P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking moron !!!
                >
                > P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for being mentally unwell.
                >
                > -Vijay

                Is this really necessary?

                Personal attacks are somehow better then gross generalizations?

                There are unsubscribe instructions at the bottom of each e-mail. I
                don't condone racism, but it's the Internet. Get over it. Responding
                with obscenities isn't going to argue your case.

                Regardless, calling everyone with a bigoted opinion a "Nazi" cheapens
                the horrors that the Nazi actually did commit. Let's review. Jenda
                said mean things on the Internet. Nazis killed millions of Jews,
                gypsies, blacks, homosexuals and handicapped persons.

                Not exactly the same thing.

                --
                Grier
              • Dave Gray
                ... Well, considering that all generalizations are false, I find it hard to agree with Jenda in the general case. There are definitely a lot of low-quality
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  > >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
                  > >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
                  > >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
                  > >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
                  > >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
                  > >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
                  > >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
                  > >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
                  > >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                  > >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
                  > >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.

                  > ateeq wrote:
                  >
                  > >Hello,
                  > >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
                  > >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
                  > >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
                  > >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
                  > >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
                  > >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
                  > >anywhere else.
                  > >
                  > >Regards to all
                  > >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
                  > >

                  > Prakash <prakash@...> wrote:
                  > dear jenda,
                  >
                  > I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
                  > somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-))
                  >
                  > inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects too
                  >
                  > -prak
                  >

                  On 8/4/05, Vijay A Raghavan <rva_ec@...> wrote:
                  > Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the group.
                  >
                  > P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking moron !!!
                  >
                  > P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for being mentally unwell.
                  >

                  Well, considering that all generalizations are false, I find it hard
                  to agree with Jenda in the general case. There are definitely a lot of
                  low-quality programmers. Some of them happen to be Indian. By virtue
                  of the fact that there are a lot of Indians, there is the potential
                  for there to be a lot more bad Indian programmers than of other
                  nationalities. Thus, Jenda's statements are a great example of
                  converse error.

                  It's too bad that you haven't worked with any good Indian programmers,
                  Jenda. They are out there, contrary to what you may have experienced.
                  I've worked with numerous bad American programmers too, and it's just
                  as annoying.

                  Dave

                  P.P.S. Vijay, swearing on a public mailing list is rarely a good idea.
                  It dilutes your meaning and distracts from your point.
                • Frank D. Gunseor
                  Sir, Your use of common gutter language in a perl email list speaks to your lack of professionalism, education and up-bringing! FDG _____ From:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Sir,

                    Your use of common gutter language in a perl email list speaks to your lack
                    of professionalism, education and up-bringing!

                    FDG

                    _____

                    From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Vijay A Raghavan
                    Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 2:40 PM
                    To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [PBML] Jenda stop your fucking mouth - You asshole - Racist Nazi


                    Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the
                    group.

                    P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking
                    moron !!!

                    P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for being
                    mentally unwell.

                    -Vijay

                    Prakash <prakash@...> wrote:
                    dear jenda,

                    I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
                    somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-))

                    inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects too

                    -prak

                    ateeq wrote:

                    >Hello,
                    >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
                    >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
                    >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
                    >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
                    >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
                    >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
                    >anywhere else.
                    >
                    >Regards to all
                    >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >>From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@...>
                    >>Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>>Hi,
                    >>>
                    >>>We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
                    >>>professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of the best
                    >>>to work for in the world - and you will be working at their Bangalore
                    >>>Development Center.
                    >>>
                    >>>If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to 9
                    >>>years experience and with a strong academic background, we definitely
                    >>>want to talk to you.
                    >>>
                    >>>Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone. Thanks.
                    >>>
                    >>>Manjunath
                    >>>Alphaeus HR
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
                    >>beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected or
                    >>even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a job
                    >>offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
                    >>
                    >>Jenda
                    >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
                    >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
                    >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
                    >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
                    >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
                    >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
                    >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
                    >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                    >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
                    >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
                    >>== Jenda@... == HYPERLINK
                    "http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz"http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                    >>: What do people think?
                    >>What, do people think? :-)
                    >> -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@...>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ezra Taylor
                    Hello hooyar66: What does knowing alot of perl have to do with not being a racist. Don t you know, their are racist from all academic levels. From the really
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello hooyar66:
                      What does knowing alot of perl have to do
                      with not being a racist. Don't you know, their are racist from all
                      academic levels. From the really stupid to the most intelligent.
                      Also, these sentiments have been growing about forigen workers for
                      some time now. You have to blind not to have noticed this. With that
                      said, I personally keep away from all racist activities; regardless
                      who it comes from. Lastly, I heard asians,europeans and others refer
                      to Americans as being stupid but they keep this information between
                      theirselves.

                      On 8/4/05, hooyar66 <pcbcad@...> wrote:
                      > --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Goral"
                      > <subscriptions@u...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jenda Krynicky
                      > > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:07
                      > > > To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Subject: Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@y...>
                      > > > Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                      > > > > Hi,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
                      > > > > professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of
                      > the best
                      > > > > to work for in the world - and you will be working at their
                      > Bangalore
                      > > > > Development Center.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to
                      > 9
                      > > > > years experience and with a strong academic background, we
                      > definitely
                      > > > > want to talk to you.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone.
                      > Thanks.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Manjunath
                      > > > > Alphaeus HR
                      > > >
                      > > > What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
                      > > > beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected
                      > or
                      > > > even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a
                      > job
                      > > > offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
                      > > >
                      > > > Jenda
                      > > > P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
                      > > > me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing.
                      > I've
                      > > > met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or
                      > another
                      > > > and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
                      > > > inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not
                      > speaking
                      > > > about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
                      > > > that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No
                      > surprise
                      > > > you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                      > > > P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
                      > > > difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
                      > > > == Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                      > > > : What do people think?
                      > > > What, do people think? :-)
                      > > > -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@w...>
                      > >
                      > > Perhaps I'll be banned too, but...
                      > >
                      > > While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do
                      > racial or
                      > > personal angst posts. I do not appreciate having to stare into the
                      > darkness
                      > > of a bigoted mind.
                      > >
                      > > Peace -
                      > > Ron Goral
                      >
                      > Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
                      > someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype and
                      > generalise one billion individuals.
                      >
                      > Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs
                      > nothing. Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid. Expressing
                      > a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is more
                      > often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
                      > Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the only
                      > opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is
                      > not the same as explaining you know better.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • hooyar66
                      ... that ... refer ... Hi Ezra I don t want to prolong the time spent here on this issue, there are plenty of more appropriate places to discuss racism etc -
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, Ezra Taylor <ezra.taylor@g...>
                        wrote:
                        > Hello hooyar66:
                        > What does knowing alot of perl have to do
                        > with not being a racist. Don't you know, their are racist from all
                        > academic levels. From the really stupid to the most intelligent.
                        > Also, these sentiments have been growing about forigen workers for
                        > some time now. You have to blind not to have noticed this. With
                        that
                        > said, I personally keep away from all racist activities; regardless
                        > who it comes from. Lastly, I heard asians,europeans and others
                        refer
                        > to Americans as being stupid but they keep this information between
                        > theirselves.
                        >

                        Hi Ezra

                        I don't want to prolong the time spent here on this issue, there are
                        plenty of more appropriate places to discuss racism etc - that said
                        in response to your post:

                        Yes I was hasty to suggest there is a link between academic
                        intelligence and racism, sorry about that - I hope I didn't offend you
                        ;-) I am not blind to the many examples of this around the world.

                        I should probably have said that a lack of common/shared experience
                        between different cultures and races is usually the cause of bigotry.
                        I am no expert on .cz but I guess there is a greater lack of
                        experience of other cultures there, than for example in the UK where
                        I live.

                        >Lastly, I heard asians,europeans and others refer
                        > to Americans as being stupid but they keep this information between
                        > theirselves.

                        As a European this is not news to me ;-) There are bigots everywhere.


                        > On 8/4/05, hooyar66 <pcbcad@h...> wrote:
                        > > --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Goral"
                        > > <subscriptions@u...>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > > From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jenda
                        Krynicky
                        > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:07
                        > > > > To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > Subject: Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@y...>
                        > > > > Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                        > > > > > Hi,
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/
                        solaris
                        > > > > > professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some
                        of
                        > > the best
                        > > > > > to work for in the world - and you will be working at their
                        > > Bangalore
                        > > > > > Development Center.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with
                        3
                        to
                        > > 9
                        > > > > > years experience and with a strong academic background, we
                        > > definitely
                        > > > > > want to talk to you.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone.
                        > > Thanks.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Manjunath
                        > > > > > Alphaeus HR
                        > > > >
                        > > > > What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called
                        "perl-
                        > > > > beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are
                        expected
                        > > or
                        > > > > even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is
                        NOT a
                        > > job
                        > > > > offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Jenda
                        > > > > P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make
                        sense to
                        > > > > me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's
                        doing.
                        > > I've
                        > > > > met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or
                        > > another
                        > > > > and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was
                        long,
                        > > > > inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not
                        > > speaking
                        > > > > about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a
                        project
                        > > > > that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No
                        > > surprise
                        > > > > you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                        > > > > P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this
                        makes
                        any
                        > > > > difference with those millions of clueless Indian
                        personalists.
                        > > > > == Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                        > > > > : What do people think?
                        > > > > What, do people think? :-)
                        > > > > -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@w...>
                        > > >
                        > > > Perhaps I'll be banned too, but...
                        > > >
                        > > > While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do
                        > > racial or
                        > > > personal angst posts. I do not appreciate having to stare into
                        the
                        > > darkness
                        > > > of a bigoted mind.
                        > > >
                        > > > Peace -
                        > > > Ron Goral
                        > >
                        > > Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
                        > > someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype
                        and
                        > > generalise one billion individuals.
                        > >
                        > > Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs
                        > > nothing. Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid.
                        Expressing
                        > > a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is
                        more
                        > > often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
                        > > Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the
                        only
                        > > opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is
                        > > not the same as explaining you know better.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/
                        groups-32.html
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                      • Jenda Krynicky
                        From: Prakash ... Not too personal, but you are right I was rather pissed of yesterday. Sorry. ... No, I ve had to fix some projects
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          From: Prakash <prakash@...>
                          > dear jenda,
                          >
                          > I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons.

                          Not too personal, but you are right I was rather pissed of yesterday.
                          Sorry.

                          > .i think
                          > somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you
                          > ?? :-))
                          >
                          > inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects
                          > too

                          No, I've had to fix some projects that were originaly outsourced to
                          Indian companies. And talked to coleagues that had to do the same and
                          seen the code.

                          > ateeq wrote:
                          > >Hello,
                          > >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of
                          > >temper due to an inordinate volume of spam... I agree that posting
                          > >jobs in this group is not a good thing at all. However, perhaps we
                          > >can avoid impugning people's nationalities in process. Indian
                          > >programmers are an up and coming group of folk who deserve to be
                          > >respected for their skill, just like every programmer from anywhere
                          > >else.
                          > >
                          > >Regards to all
                          > >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)

                          Yes, I lost my temper and the ad was the proverbial last drop. It's
                          true though that the only job ads I've ever seen in this group have
                          been sent by Indians and that there has lately been a large influx of
                          Indian newbies, very often lacking both humility and any basics of
                          programming. I'm sure there have been exceptions to this and I'm sure
                          it's gonna get better over time.

                          Just like you are no longer supposed to be an idiot just because your
                          email ends @... as you were shortly after AOL connected to the
                          Internet and thousands of AOLers with no netiquette swarmed the Net.

                          From: Prakash <prakash@...>
                          > how can she be such a nazzi and be the owner of this group.. if i
                          am
                          > going to be blocked for saying this please do block me ..
                          >
                          > i dont want to be in a group where a racist is the group leader..

                          It's "he", not "she". And I'm just a co-moderator.

                          From: hooyar66" <pcbcad@...>
                          > Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
                          > someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype
                          > and generalise one billion individuals.

                          Could anyone explain to me what's racist on my post?

                          I've said I've never met an Indian who know what he as doing. Where's
                          there any racism in that? Where's there any generalization?

                          I've said I have met a few that were claiming to be experts and were
                          spreading nonsense. Where's the racism? Where's the generalization?

                          I've also said I've seen code by said people that was long,
                          inefficient, hard to maintan and wrong. Any racism in that? I don't
                          see it.

                          The only generalization involved the 20 indians in place of 1-2
                          programmers. Well, I based that on the projects we inherited from the
                          Indian companies TMP used to outsource to.

                          Where's the stereotype? I based my comments on my experience, not
                          some media stereotypes.

                          Ezra Taylor <ezra.taylor@...>:
                          > Also, these sentiments have been growing about forigen workers for
                          > some time now. You have to blind not to have noticed this.

                          I'm a "foreign worker" too :-P
                          This has nothing to do with job security. Neither with racism. I know
                          lots of good programmers from all over the world, I just did not meet
                          any from India.

                          I guess I'm not indoctrinated enough by the political corectness for
                          today's world. I'm used to say "this is wrong" it I think it's wrong.
                          I'm used to say "you are stupid" if I think you are stupid and I'm
                          used to say "I've never met an experienced X" if I've never met an
                          experienced X. Even if X happens to be a nationality. And even if
                          it's a nationality that has been "opressed" by the bloody white
                          Europeans. If I can say "all Newtons I know are idiots" I don't see
                          any reason why I could not say "all Indians I know are idiots". And
                          if you do consider one of the sentences racist and the other not then
                          you are the racist.

                          Anyway, sorry to all those offended. I did overreact. So did most
                          people that responded to my outburst. Shit happens.

                          Jenda
                          ===== Jenda@... === http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz =====
                          When it comes to wine, women and song, wizards are allowed
                          to get drunk and croon as much as they like.
                          -- Terry Pratchett in Sourcery
                        • Prakash
                          everything is correct about you saying what you want to say.. but remember this.. Larry Wall can call you an idiot !! millions of others can call u an idiot..
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            everything is correct about you saying what you want to say.. but
                            remember this.. Larry Wall can call you an idiot !!
                            millions of others can call u an idiot.. they dont tell because they are
                            matured and humble enough to know what to say and what not to say..

                            -prak

                            >I'm a "foreign worker" too :-P
                            >This has nothing to do with job security. Neither with racism. I know
                            >lots of good programmers from all over the world, I just did not meet
                            >any from India.
                            >
                            >I guess I'm not indoctrinated enough by the political corectness for
                            >today's world. I'm used to say "this is wrong" it I think it's wrong.
                            >I'm used to say "you are stupid" if I think you are stupid and I'm
                            >used to say "I've never met an experienced X" if I've never met an
                            >experienced X. Even if X happens to be a nationality. And even if
                            >it's a nationality that has been "opressed" by the bloody white
                            >Europeans. If I can say "all Newtons I know are idiots" I don't see
                            >any reason why I could not say "all Indians I know are idiots". And
                            >if you do consider one of the sentences racist and the other not then
                            >you are the racist.
                            >
                            >Anyway, sorry to all those offended. I did overreact. So did most
                            >people that responded to my outburst. Shit happens.
                            >
                            >Jenda
                            >===== Jenda@... === http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz =====
                            >When it comes to wine, women and song, wizards are allowed
                            >to get drunk and croon as much as they like.
                            > -- Terry Pratchett in Sourcery
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • ateeq
                            Dave makes a very valid point. We don t all need to sink into a mire of recriminations. Let s go on with learning PERL and forget about this incident. All of
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 7, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dave makes a very valid point. We don't all need to sink into a mire of
                              recriminations. Let's go on with learning PERL and forget about this
                              incident. All of us cannot afford to dwell on such things too much, the
                              viscosity of hate keeps on rising.....

                              Peace

                              Ateeq Ahmad

                              Dave Gray wrote:

                              > > >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
                              > > >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
                              > > >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
                              > > >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
                              > > >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
                              > > >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
                              > > >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
                              > > >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
                              > > >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                              > > >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
                              > > >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
                              >
                              > > ateeq wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >Hello,
                              > > >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
                              > > >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
                              > > >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
                              > > >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
                              > > >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
                              > > >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer
                              > from
                              > > >anywhere else.
                              > > >
                              > > >Regards to all
                              > > >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
                              > > >
                              >
                              > > Prakash <prakash@...> wrote:
                              > > dear jenda,
                              > >
                              > > I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
                              > > somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you
                              > ?? :-))
                              > >
                              > > inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get
                              > projects too
                              > >
                              > > -prak
                              > >
                              >
                              > On 8/4/05, Vijay A Raghavan <rva_ec@...> wrote:
                              > > Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself
                              > from the group.
                              > >
                              > > P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole,
                              > fucking moron !!!
                              > >
                              > > P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for
                              > being mentally unwell.
                              > >
                              >
                              > Well, considering that all generalizations are false, I find it hard
                              > to agree with Jenda in the general case. There are definitely a lot of
                              > low-quality programmers. Some of them happen to be Indian. By virtue
                              > of the fact that there are a lot of Indians, there is the potential
                              > for there to be a lot more bad Indian programmers than of other
                              > nationalities. Thus, Jenda's statements are a great example of
                              > converse error.
                              >
                              > It's too bad that you haven't worked with any good Indian programmers,
                              > Jenda. They are out there, contrary to what you may have experienced.
                              > I've worked with numerous bad American programmers too, and it's just
                              > as annoying.
                              >
                              > Dave
                              >
                              > P.P.S. Vijay, swearing on a public mailing list is rarely a good idea.
                              > It dilutes your meaning and distracts from your point.
                              >
                              >
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