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Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!

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  • Jenda Krynicky
    From: alphaeus_perl Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!! ... What makes you think you ll find experts in a
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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      From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@...>
      Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
      > Hi,
      >
      > We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
      > professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of the best
      > to work for in the world - and you will be working at their Bangalore
      > Development Center.
      >
      > If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to 9
      > years experience and with a strong academic background, we definitely
      > want to talk to you.
      >
      > Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone. Thanks.
      >
      > Manjunath
      > Alphaeus HR

      What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
      beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected or
      even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a job
      offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.

      Jenda
      P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
      me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
      met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
      and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
      inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
      about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
      that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
      you have to keep searching for more manpower.
      P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
      difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
      == Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
      : What do people think?
      What, do people think? :-)
      -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@...>
    • Ron Goral
      ... Perhaps I ll be banned too, but... While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do racial or personal angst posts. I do not appreciate
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jenda Krynicky
        > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:07
        > To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
        >
        >
        > From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@...>
        > Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
        > > Hi,
        > >
        > > We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
        > > professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of the best
        > > to work for in the world - and you will be working at their Bangalore
        > > Development Center.
        > >
        > > If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to 9
        > > years experience and with a strong academic background, we definitely
        > > want to talk to you.
        > >
        > > Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone. Thanks.
        > >
        > > Manjunath
        > > Alphaeus HR
        >
        > What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
        > beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected or
        > even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a job
        > offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
        >
        > Jenda
        > P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
        > me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
        > met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
        > and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
        > inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
        > about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
        > that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
        > you have to keep searching for more manpower.
        > P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
        > difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
        > == Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
        > : What do people think?
        > What, do people think? :-)
        > -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@...>

        Perhaps I'll be banned too, but...

        While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do racial or
        personal angst posts. I do not appreciate having to stare into the darkness
        of a bigoted mind.

        Peace -
        Ron Goral
      • hooyar66
        ... ... the best ... Bangalore ... 9 ... definitely ... Thanks. ... or ... job ... I ve ... another ... speaking ... surprise ... racial
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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          --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Goral"
          <subscriptions@u...>
          wrote:
          >
          >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
          > > [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jenda Krynicky
          > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:07
          > > To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
          > >
          > >
          > > From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@y...>
          > > Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
          > > > Hi,
          > > >
          > > > We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
          > > > professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of
          the best
          > > > to work for in the world - and you will be working at their
          Bangalore
          > > > Development Center.
          > > >
          > > > If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to
          9
          > > > years experience and with a strong academic background, we
          definitely
          > > > want to talk to you.
          > > >
          > > > Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone.
          Thanks.
          > > >
          > > > Manjunath
          > > > Alphaeus HR
          > >
          > > What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
          > > beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected
          or
          > > even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a
          job
          > > offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
          > >
          > > Jenda
          > > P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
          > > me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing.
          I've
          > > met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or
          another
          > > and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
          > > inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not
          speaking
          > > about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
          > > that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No
          surprise
          > > you have to keep searching for more manpower.
          > > P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
          > > difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
          > > == Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
          > > : What do people think?
          > > What, do people think? :-)
          > > -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@w...>
          >
          > Perhaps I'll be banned too, but...
          >
          > While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do
          racial or
          > personal angst posts. I do not appreciate having to stare into the
          darkness
          > of a bigoted mind.
          >
          > Peace -
          > Ron Goral

          Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
          someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype and
          generalise one billion individuals.

          Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs
          nothing. Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid. Expressing
          a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is more
          often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
          Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the only
          opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is
          not the same as explaining you know better.
        • ateeq
          Hello, I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper due to an inordinate volume of spam... I agree that posting jobs in this group is
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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            Hello,
            I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
            due to an inordinate volume of spam...
            I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
            However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
            process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
            deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
            anywhere else.

            Regards to all
            Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)




            Jenda Krynicky wrote:

            > From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@...>
            > Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
            > > Hi,
            > >
            > > We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
            > > professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of the best
            > > to work for in the world - and you will be working at their Bangalore
            > > Development Center.
            > >
            > > If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to 9
            > > years experience and with a strong academic background, we definitely
            > > want to talk to you.
            > >
            > > Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone. Thanks.
            > >
            > > Manjunath
            > > Alphaeus HR
            >
            > What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
            > beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected or
            > even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a job
            > offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
            >
            > Jenda
            > P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
            > me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
            > met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
            > and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
            > inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
            > about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
            > that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
            > you have to keep searching for more manpower.
            > P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
            > difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
            > == Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
            > : What do people think?
            > What, do people think? :-)
            > -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@...>
            >
            >
            >
            > Unsubscribing info is here:
            > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
            >
            >
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Prakash
            dear jenda, I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-)) inst
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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              dear jenda,

              I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
              somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-))

              inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects too

              -prak

              ateeq wrote:

              >Hello,
              >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
              >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
              >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
              >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
              >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
              >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
              >anywhere else.
              >
              >Regards to all
              >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >>From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@...>
              >>Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
              >>
              >>
              >>>Hi,
              >>>
              >>>We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
              >>>professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of the best
              >>>to work for in the world - and you will be working at their Bangalore
              >>>Development Center.
              >>>
              >>>If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to 9
              >>>years experience and with a strong academic background, we definitely
              >>>want to talk to you.
              >>>
              >>>Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone. Thanks.
              >>>
              >>>Manjunath
              >>>Alphaeus HR
              >>>
              >>>
              >>What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
              >>beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected or
              >>even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a job
              >>offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
              >>
              >>Jenda
              >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
              >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
              >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
              >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
              >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
              >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
              >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
              >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
              >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
              >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
              >>== Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
              >>: What do people think?
              >>What, do people think? :-)
              >> -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@...>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>Unsubscribing info is here:
              >>http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
              >>
              >>
              >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >>
              >> * Visit your group "perl-beginner
              >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/perl-beginner>" on the web.
              >>
              >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >> perl-beginner-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >> <mailto:perl-beginner-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
              >>
              >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              >> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
              >>
              >>
              >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
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              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Prakash
              how can she be such a nazzi and be the owner of this group.. if i am going to be blocked for saying this please do block me .. i dont want to be in a group
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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                how can she be such a nazzi and be the owner of this group.. if i am
                going to be blocked for saying this please do block me ..

                i dont want to be in a group where a racist is the group leader..

                -prak



                hooyar66 wrote:

                >--- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Goral"
                ><subscriptions@u...>
                >wrote:
                >
                >
                >>
                >>
                >>>-----Original Message-----
                >>>From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                >>>[mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jenda Krynicky
                >>>Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:07
                >>>To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                >>>Subject: Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@y...>
                >>>Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>>Hi,
                >>>>
                >>>>We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
                >>>>professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >the best
                >
                >
                >>>>to work for in the world - and you will be working at their
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >Bangalore
                >
                >
                >>>>Development Center.
                >>>>
                >>>>If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >9
                >
                >
                >>>>years experience and with a strong academic background, we
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >definitely
                >
                >
                >>>>want to talk to you.
                >>>>
                >>>>Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone.
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >Thanks.
                >
                >
                >>>>Manjunath
                >>>>Alphaeus HR
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
                >>>beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected
                >>>
                >>>
                >or
                >
                >
                >>>even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a
                >>>
                >>>
                >job
                >
                >
                >>>offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
                >>>
                >>>Jenda
                >>>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
                >>>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing.
                >>>
                >>>
                >I've
                >
                >
                >>>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or
                >>>
                >>>
                >another
                >
                >
                >>>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
                >>>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not
                >>>
                >>>
                >speaking
                >
                >
                >>>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
                >>>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No
                >>>
                >>>
                >surprise
                >
                >
                >>>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                >>>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
                >>>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
                >>>== Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                >>>: What do people think?
                >>>What, do people think? :-)
                >>> -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@w...>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>Perhaps I'll be banned too, but...
                >>
                >>While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do
                >>
                >>
                >racial or
                >
                >
                >>personal angst posts. I do not appreciate having to stare into the
                >>
                >>
                >darkness
                >
                >
                >>of a bigoted mind.
                >>
                >>Peace -
                >>Ron Goral
                >>
                >>
                >
                >Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
                >someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype and
                >generalise one billion individuals.
                >
                >Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs
                >nothing. Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid. Expressing
                >a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is more
                >often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
                >Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the only
                >opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is
                >not the same as explaining you know better.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Vijay A Raghavan
                Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the group. P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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                  Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the group.

                  P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking moron !!!

                  P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for being mentally unwell.

                  -Vijay

                  Prakash <prakash@...> wrote:
                  dear jenda,

                  I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
                  somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-))

                  inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects too

                  -prak

                  ateeq wrote:

                  >Hello,
                  >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
                  >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
                  >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
                  >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
                  >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
                  >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
                  >anywhere else.
                  >
                  >Regards to all
                  >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >>From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@...>
                  >>Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>>Hi,
                  >>>
                  >>>We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
                  >>>professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of the best
                  >>>to work for in the world - and you will be working at their Bangalore
                  >>>Development Center.
                  >>>
                  >>>If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to 9
                  >>>years experience and with a strong academic background, we definitely
                  >>>want to talk to you.
                  >>>
                  >>>Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone. Thanks.
                  >>>
                  >>>Manjunath
                  >>>Alphaeus HR
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
                  >>beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected or
                  >>even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a job
                  >>offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
                  >>
                  >>Jenda
                  >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
                  >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
                  >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
                  >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
                  >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
                  >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
                  >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
                  >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                  >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
                  >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
                  >>== Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                  >>: What do people think?
                  >>What, do people think? :-)
                  >> -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@...>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>Unsubscribing info is here:
                  >>http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >>
                  >> * Visit your group "perl-beginner
                  >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/perl-beginner>" on the web.
                  >>
                  >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  >> perl-beginner-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >> <mailto:perl-beginner-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                • Grier Johnson
                  ... Is this really necessary? Personal attacks are somehow better then gross generalizations? There are unsubscribe instructions at the bottom of each e-mail.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On 8/4/05, Vijay A Raghavan <rva_ec@...> wrote:
                    > Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the group.
                    >
                    > P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking moron !!!
                    >
                    > P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for being mentally unwell.
                    >
                    > -Vijay

                    Is this really necessary?

                    Personal attacks are somehow better then gross generalizations?

                    There are unsubscribe instructions at the bottom of each e-mail. I
                    don't condone racism, but it's the Internet. Get over it. Responding
                    with obscenities isn't going to argue your case.

                    Regardless, calling everyone with a bigoted opinion a "Nazi" cheapens
                    the horrors that the Nazi actually did commit. Let's review. Jenda
                    said mean things on the Internet. Nazis killed millions of Jews,
                    gypsies, blacks, homosexuals and handicapped persons.

                    Not exactly the same thing.

                    --
                    Grier
                  • Dave Gray
                    ... Well, considering that all generalizations are false, I find it hard to agree with Jenda in the general case. There are definitely a lot of low-quality
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
                      > >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
                      > >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
                      > >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
                      > >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
                      > >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
                      > >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
                      > >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
                      > >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                      > >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
                      > >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.

                      > ateeq wrote:
                      >
                      > >Hello,
                      > >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
                      > >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
                      > >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
                      > >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
                      > >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
                      > >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
                      > >anywhere else.
                      > >
                      > >Regards to all
                      > >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
                      > >

                      > Prakash <prakash@...> wrote:
                      > dear jenda,
                      >
                      > I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
                      > somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-))
                      >
                      > inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects too
                      >
                      > -prak
                      >

                      On 8/4/05, Vijay A Raghavan <rva_ec@...> wrote:
                      > Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the group.
                      >
                      > P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking moron !!!
                      >
                      > P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for being mentally unwell.
                      >

                      Well, considering that all generalizations are false, I find it hard
                      to agree with Jenda in the general case. There are definitely a lot of
                      low-quality programmers. Some of them happen to be Indian. By virtue
                      of the fact that there are a lot of Indians, there is the potential
                      for there to be a lot more bad Indian programmers than of other
                      nationalities. Thus, Jenda's statements are a great example of
                      converse error.

                      It's too bad that you haven't worked with any good Indian programmers,
                      Jenda. They are out there, contrary to what you may have experienced.
                      I've worked with numerous bad American programmers too, and it's just
                      as annoying.

                      Dave

                      P.P.S. Vijay, swearing on a public mailing list is rarely a good idea.
                      It dilutes your meaning and distracts from your point.
                    • Frank D. Gunseor
                      Sir, Your use of common gutter language in a perl email list speaks to your lack of professionalism, education and up-bringing! FDG _____ From:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Sir,

                        Your use of common gutter language in a perl email list speaks to your lack
                        of professionalism, education and up-bringing!

                        FDG

                        _____

                        From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of Vijay A Raghavan
                        Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 2:40 PM
                        To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [PBML] Jenda stop your fucking mouth - You asshole - Racist Nazi


                        Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself from the
                        group.

                        P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole, fucking
                        moron !!!

                        P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for being
                        mentally unwell.

                        -Vijay

                        Prakash <prakash@...> wrote:
                        dear jenda,

                        I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
                        somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you ?? :-))

                        inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects too

                        -prak

                        ateeq wrote:

                        >Hello,
                        >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
                        >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
                        >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
                        >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
                        >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
                        >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer from
                        >anywhere else.
                        >
                        >Regards to all
                        >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >>From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@...>
                        >>Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>>Hi,
                        >>>
                        >>>We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
                        >>>professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of the best
                        >>>to work for in the world - and you will be working at their Bangalore
                        >>>Development Center.
                        >>>
                        >>>If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to 9
                        >>>years experience and with a strong academic background, we definitely
                        >>>want to talk to you.
                        >>>
                        >>>Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone. Thanks.
                        >>>
                        >>>Manjunath
                        >>>Alphaeus HR
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
                        >>beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected or
                        >>even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a job
                        >>offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
                        >>
                        >>Jenda
                        >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
                        >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
                        >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
                        >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
                        >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
                        >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
                        >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
                        >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                        >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
                        >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
                        >>== Jenda@... == HYPERLINK
                        "http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz"http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                        >>: What do people think?
                        >>What, do people think? :-)
                        >> -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@...>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>Unsubscribing info is here:
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                      • Ezra Taylor
                        Hello hooyar66: What does knowing alot of perl have to do with not being a racist. Don t you know, their are racist from all academic levels. From the really
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hello hooyar66:
                          What does knowing alot of perl have to do
                          with not being a racist. Don't you know, their are racist from all
                          academic levels. From the really stupid to the most intelligent.
                          Also, these sentiments have been growing about forigen workers for
                          some time now. You have to blind not to have noticed this. With that
                          said, I personally keep away from all racist activities; regardless
                          who it comes from. Lastly, I heard asians,europeans and others refer
                          to Americans as being stupid but they keep this information between
                          theirselves.

                          On 8/4/05, hooyar66 <pcbcad@...> wrote:
                          > --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Goral"
                          > <subscriptions@u...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jenda Krynicky
                          > > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:07
                          > > > To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Subject: Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@y...>
                          > > > Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                          > > > > Hi,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/solaris
                          > > > > professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some of
                          > the best
                          > > > > to work for in the world - and you will be working at their
                          > Bangalore
                          > > > > Development Center.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with 3 to
                          > 9
                          > > > > years experience and with a strong academic background, we
                          > definitely
                          > > > > want to talk to you.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone.
                          > Thanks.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Manjunath
                          > > > > Alphaeus HR
                          > > >
                          > > > What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called "perl-
                          > > > beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are expected
                          > or
                          > > > even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is NOT a
                          > job
                          > > > offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
                          > > >
                          > > > Jenda
                          > > > P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
                          > > > me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing.
                          > I've
                          > > > met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or
                          > another
                          > > > and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
                          > > > inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not
                          > speaking
                          > > > about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
                          > > > that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No
                          > surprise
                          > > > you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                          > > > P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
                          > > > difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
                          > > > == Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                          > > > : What do people think?
                          > > > What, do people think? :-)
                          > > > -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@w...>
                          > >
                          > > Perhaps I'll be banned too, but...
                          > >
                          > > While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do
                          > racial or
                          > > personal angst posts. I do not appreciate having to stare into the
                          > darkness
                          > > of a bigoted mind.
                          > >
                          > > Peace -
                          > > Ron Goral
                          >
                          > Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
                          > someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype and
                          > generalise one billion individuals.
                          >
                          > Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs
                          > nothing. Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid. Expressing
                          > a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is more
                          > often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
                          > Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the only
                          > opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is
                          > not the same as explaining you know better.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • hooyar66
                          ... that ... refer ... Hi Ezra I don t want to prolong the time spent here on this issue, there are plenty of more appropriate places to discuss racism etc -
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, Ezra Taylor <ezra.taylor@g...>
                            wrote:
                            > Hello hooyar66:
                            > What does knowing alot of perl have to do
                            > with not being a racist. Don't you know, their are racist from all
                            > academic levels. From the really stupid to the most intelligent.
                            > Also, these sentiments have been growing about forigen workers for
                            > some time now. You have to blind not to have noticed this. With
                            that
                            > said, I personally keep away from all racist activities; regardless
                            > who it comes from. Lastly, I heard asians,europeans and others
                            refer
                            > to Americans as being stupid but they keep this information between
                            > theirselves.
                            >

                            Hi Ezra

                            I don't want to prolong the time spent here on this issue, there are
                            plenty of more appropriate places to discuss racism etc - that said
                            in response to your post:

                            Yes I was hasty to suggest there is a link between academic
                            intelligence and racism, sorry about that - I hope I didn't offend you
                            ;-) I am not blind to the many examples of this around the world.

                            I should probably have said that a lack of common/shared experience
                            between different cultures and races is usually the cause of bigotry.
                            I am no expert on .cz but I guess there is a greater lack of
                            experience of other cultures there, than for example in the UK where
                            I live.

                            >Lastly, I heard asians,europeans and others refer
                            > to Americans as being stupid but they keep this information between
                            > theirselves.

                            As a European this is not news to me ;-) There are bigots everywhere.


                            > On 8/4/05, hooyar66 <pcbcad@h...> wrote:
                            > > --- In perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Goral"
                            > > <subscriptions@u...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > > From: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > [mailto:perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jenda
                            Krynicky
                            > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:07
                            > > > > To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > Subject: Re: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > From: "alphaeus_perl" <alphaeus_perl@y...>
                            > > > > Subject: [PBML] PERL & UNIX Expert!!!
                            > > > > > Hi,
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > We have a few great opportunities for Perl, Unix/linux/
                            solaris
                            > > > > > professionals in Bangalore, India. The companies are some
                            of
                            > > the best
                            > > > > > to work for in the world - and you will be working at their
                            > > Bangalore
                            > > > > > Development Center.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > If you call yourself a Perl Expert and a Unix expert, with
                            3
                            to
                            > > 9
                            > > > > > years experience and with a strong academic background, we
                            > > definitely
                            > > > > > want to talk to you.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Please revert to us immediately either by mail or by phone.
                            > > Thanks.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Manjunath
                            > > > > > Alphaeus HR
                            > > > >
                            > > > > What makes you think you'll find experts in a group called
                            "perl-
                            > > > > beginner"? And why do you think your advertisements are
                            expected
                            > > or
                            > > > > even appreciated here? Will you Indians ever learn? This is
                            NOT a
                            > > job
                            > > > > offer group! Stop spamming you idiots.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Jenda
                            > > > > P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make
                            sense to
                            > > > > me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's
                            doing.
                            > > I've
                            > > > > met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or
                            > > another
                            > > > > and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was
                            long,
                            > > > > inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not
                            > > speaking
                            > > > > about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a
                            project
                            > > > > that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No
                            > > surprise
                            > > > > you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                            > > > > P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this
                            makes
                            any
                            > > > > difference with those millions of clueless Indian
                            personalists.
                            > > > > == Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                            > > > > : What do people think?
                            > > > > What, do people think? :-)
                            > > > > -- Larry Wall in <199808071736.KAA12738@w...>
                            > > >
                            > > > Perhaps I'll be banned too, but...
                            > > >
                            > > > While job advertisements do not belong on this list, neither do
                            > > racial or
                            > > > personal angst posts. I do not appreciate having to stare into
                            the
                            > > darkness
                            > > > of a bigoted mind.
                            > > >
                            > > > Peace -
                            > > > Ron Goral
                            > >
                            > > Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
                            > > someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype
                            and
                            > > generalise one billion individuals.
                            > >
                            > > Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs
                            > > nothing. Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid.
                            Expressing
                            > > a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is
                            more
                            > > often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
                            > > Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the
                            only
                            > > opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is
                            > > not the same as explaining you know better.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/
                            groups-32.html
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                          • Jenda Krynicky
                            From: Prakash ... Not too personal, but you are right I was rather pissed of yesterday. Sorry. ... No, I ve had to fix some projects
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              From: Prakash <prakash@...>
                              > dear jenda,
                              >
                              > I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons.

                              Not too personal, but you are right I was rather pissed of yesterday.
                              Sorry.

                              > .i think
                              > somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you
                              > ?? :-))
                              >
                              > inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get projects
                              > too

                              No, I've had to fix some projects that were originaly outsourced to
                              Indian companies. And talked to coleagues that had to do the same and
                              seen the code.

                              > ateeq wrote:
                              > >Hello,
                              > >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of
                              > >temper due to an inordinate volume of spam... I agree that posting
                              > >jobs in this group is not a good thing at all. However, perhaps we
                              > >can avoid impugning people's nationalities in process. Indian
                              > >programmers are an up and coming group of folk who deserve to be
                              > >respected for their skill, just like every programmer from anywhere
                              > >else.
                              > >
                              > >Regards to all
                              > >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)

                              Yes, I lost my temper and the ad was the proverbial last drop. It's
                              true though that the only job ads I've ever seen in this group have
                              been sent by Indians and that there has lately been a large influx of
                              Indian newbies, very often lacking both humility and any basics of
                              programming. I'm sure there have been exceptions to this and I'm sure
                              it's gonna get better over time.

                              Just like you are no longer supposed to be an idiot just because your
                              email ends @... as you were shortly after AOL connected to the
                              Internet and thousands of AOLers with no netiquette swarmed the Net.

                              From: Prakash <prakash@...>
                              > how can she be such a nazzi and be the owner of this group.. if i
                              am
                              > going to be blocked for saying this please do block me ..
                              >
                              > i dont want to be in a group where a racist is the group leader..

                              It's "he", not "she". And I'm just a co-moderator.

                              From: hooyar66" <pcbcad@...>
                              > Seconded - I am disgusted by that racist post, and amazed that
                              > someone so well versed in Perl could be so ignorant to stereotype
                              > and generalise one billion individuals.

                              Could anyone explain to me what's racist on my post?

                              I've said I've never met an Indian who know what he as doing. Where's
                              there any racism in that? Where's there any generalization?

                              I've said I have met a few that were claiming to be experts and were
                              spreading nonsense. Where's the racism? Where's the generalization?

                              I've also said I've seen code by said people that was long,
                              inefficient, hard to maintan and wrong. Any racism in that? I don't
                              see it.

                              The only generalization involved the 20 indians in place of 1-2
                              programmers. Well, I based that on the projects we inherited from the
                              Indian companies TMP used to outsource to.

                              Where's the stereotype? I based my comments on my experience, not
                              some media stereotypes.

                              Ezra Taylor <ezra.taylor@...>:
                              > Also, these sentiments have been growing about forigen workers for
                              > some time now. You have to blind not to have noticed this.

                              I'm a "foreign worker" too :-P
                              This has nothing to do with job security. Neither with racism. I know
                              lots of good programmers from all over the world, I just did not meet
                              any from India.

                              I guess I'm not indoctrinated enough by the political corectness for
                              today's world. I'm used to say "this is wrong" it I think it's wrong.
                              I'm used to say "you are stupid" if I think you are stupid and I'm
                              used to say "I've never met an experienced X" if I've never met an
                              experienced X. Even if X happens to be a nationality. And even if
                              it's a nationality that has been "opressed" by the bloody white
                              Europeans. If I can say "all Newtons I know are idiots" I don't see
                              any reason why I could not say "all Indians I know are idiots". And
                              if you do consider one of the sentences racist and the other not then
                              you are the racist.

                              Anyway, sorry to all those offended. I did overreact. So did most
                              people that responded to my outburst. Shit happens.

                              Jenda
                              ===== Jenda@... === http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz =====
                              When it comes to wine, women and song, wizards are allowed
                              to get drunk and croon as much as they like.
                              -- Terry Pratchett in Sourcery
                            • Prakash
                              everything is correct about you saying what you want to say.. but remember this.. Larry Wall can call you an idiot !! millions of others can call u an idiot..
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                everything is correct about you saying what you want to say.. but
                                remember this.. Larry Wall can call you an idiot !!
                                millions of others can call u an idiot.. they dont tell because they are
                                matured and humble enough to know what to say and what not to say..

                                -prak

                                >I'm a "foreign worker" too :-P
                                >This has nothing to do with job security. Neither with racism. I know
                                >lots of good programmers from all over the world, I just did not meet
                                >any from India.
                                >
                                >I guess I'm not indoctrinated enough by the political corectness for
                                >today's world. I'm used to say "this is wrong" it I think it's wrong.
                                >I'm used to say "you are stupid" if I think you are stupid and I'm
                                >used to say "I've never met an experienced X" if I've never met an
                                >experienced X. Even if X happens to be a nationality. And even if
                                >it's a nationality that has been "opressed" by the bloody white
                                >Europeans. If I can say "all Newtons I know are idiots" I don't see
                                >any reason why I could not say "all Indians I know are idiots". And
                                >if you do consider one of the sentences racist and the other not then
                                >you are the racist.
                                >
                                >Anyway, sorry to all those offended. I did overreact. So did most
                                >people that responded to my outburst. Shit happens.
                                >
                                >Jenda
                                >===== Jenda@... === http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz =====
                                >When it comes to wine, women and song, wizards are allowed
                                >to get drunk and croon as much as they like.
                                > -- Terry Pratchett in Sourcery
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • ateeq
                                Dave makes a very valid point. We don t all need to sink into a mire of recriminations. Let s go on with learning PERL and forget about this incident. All of
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 7, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dave makes a very valid point. We don't all need to sink into a mire of
                                  recriminations. Let's go on with learning PERL and forget about this
                                  incident. All of us cannot afford to dwell on such things too much, the
                                  viscosity of hate keeps on rising.....

                                  Peace

                                  Ateeq Ahmad

                                  Dave Gray wrote:

                                  > > >Jenda Krynicky wrote:
                                  > > >>P.S.: Indian and expert in the same sentence doesn't make sense to
                                  > > >>me. I have yet to meet an Indian that knows what he/she's doing. I've
                                  > > >>met a few that were claiming they're experts in one field or another
                                  > > >>and spread utter nonsense though. Or created code that was long,
                                  > > >>inefficient, hard to maintain and wrong, wrong, wrong. Not speaking
                                  > > >>about the fact that it takes twenty Indians to "develop" a project
                                  > > >>that'd everywhere else take just one or two programmers. No surprise
                                  > > >>you have to keep searching for more manpower.
                                  > > >>P.P.S.: You have been baned, not that I would think this makes any
                                  > > >>difference with those millions of clueless Indian personalists.
                                  >
                                  > > ateeq wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > >Hello,
                                  > > >I have a feeling that the posting of this message was a loss of temper
                                  > > >due to an inordinate volume of spam...
                                  > > >I agree that posting jobs in this group is not a good thing at all.
                                  > > >However, perhaps we can avoid impugning people's nationalities in
                                  > > >process. Indian programmers are an up and coming group of folk who
                                  > > >deserve to be respected for their skill, just like every programmer
                                  > from
                                  > > >anywhere else.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Regards to all
                                  > > >Ateeq Ahmad ( dash it! another indian)
                                  > > >
                                  >
                                  > > Prakash <prakash@...> wrote:
                                  > > dear jenda,
                                  > >
                                  > > I think you are just pissed of for some personal reasons..i think
                                  > > somebody decided to give a project to a smart indian instead of you
                                  > ?? :-))
                                  > >
                                  > > inst it that true jenda ?? poor jenda dont worry you will get
                                  > projects too
                                  > >
                                  > > -prak
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > On 8/4/05, Vijay A Raghavan <rva_ec@...> wrote:
                                  > > Jenda you are a shame to the group. I think you should ban yourself
                                  > from the group.
                                  > >
                                  > > P.S: I think you should shut up your fucking mouth. You asshole,
                                  > fucking moron !!!
                                  > >
                                  > > P.P.S: Did you lose your job or have you been recently fired for
                                  > being mentally unwell.
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > Well, considering that all generalizations are false, I find it hard
                                  > to agree with Jenda in the general case. There are definitely a lot of
                                  > low-quality programmers. Some of them happen to be Indian. By virtue
                                  > of the fact that there are a lot of Indians, there is the potential
                                  > for there to be a lot more bad Indian programmers than of other
                                  > nationalities. Thus, Jenda's statements are a great example of
                                  > converse error.
                                  >
                                  > It's too bad that you haven't worked with any good Indian programmers,
                                  > Jenda. They are out there, contrary to what you may have experienced.
                                  > I've worked with numerous bad American programmers too, and it's just
                                  > as annoying.
                                  >
                                  > Dave
                                  >
                                  > P.P.S. Vijay, swearing on a public mailing list is rarely a good idea.
                                  > It dilutes your meaning and distracts from your point.
                                  >
                                  >
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