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Re: [PBML] Textpad vs. Dzsoft Perl Editor: VIM

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  • Octavian Rasnita
    I ve installed Gvim from that link. It has a lot of features and options. The bad thing is that it is not too friendly for a screen reader also. The text is
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
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      I've installed Gvim from that link.
      It has a lot of features and options.

      The bad thing is that it is not too friendly for a screen reader also.
      The text is accessible but the text is not very well read by my screen
      reader.
      Another problem of this editor is that the Windows version is not a Windows
      style program, and it is hard to configure it without reading a manual
      unlike most Windows programs.
      Another problem for those who don't have a Unix experience is that the
      shortcuts for menu options are also in the Unix style and I don't even know
      what those abreviations mean.

      Teddy,
      Teddy's Center: http://teddy.fcc.ro/
      Email: orasnita@...

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Hans Ginzel" <hans@...>
      To: <perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 3:51 PM
      Subject: Re: [PBML] Textpad vs. Dzsoft Perl Editor: VIM


      On Sat, Dec 21, 2002 at 12:18:58PM -0600, Kyle Hamar wrote:
      > >I also use TextPad and it works fine.
      > >It recognizes the Perl syntax, etc.

      I use VIM (http://vim.sourceforge.net/,
      www.vim.org, http://www.thomer.com/vi/vi.html). It recognizes syntax
      for almost everything, supports folders, diff mode, tags. It has also an
      easy mode for beginners (evim; vim -y) and gui (gvim). It is for almost
      every OS. It is free -- charityware.

      It is the best editor:
      http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6380&mode=thread&order=0

      And autor is a cool man: http://www.moolenaar.net/

      Download promotional calendar of VIM.

      Hans
      --
      Q: Is vi an easy editor to learn, is it intuitive?
      A: Yes, some of us think so. But most people think that we are
      crazy.
      -- vi FAQ



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      http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html

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    • Dinesh V. R.
      I agree 100% http://www.truth.sk/vim/vimbook-OPL.pdf Dinesh
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 3, 2003
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        I agree 100%
        http://www.truth.sk/vim/vimbook-OPL.pdf
        Dinesh

        > On Sat, Dec 21, 2002 at 12:18:58PM -0600, Kyle Hamar wrote:
        > > >I also use TextPad and it works fine.
        > > >It recognizes the Perl syntax, etc.
        >
        > I use VIM (http://vim.sourceforge.net/,
        > www.vim.org, http://www.thomer.com/vi/vi.html). It recognizes syntax
        > for almost everything, supports folders, diff mode, tags. It has also an
        > easy mode for beginners (evim; vim -y) and gui (gvim). It is for almost
        > every OS. It is free -- charityware.
        >
        > It is the best editor:
        > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6380&mode=thread&order=0
        >
        > And autor is a cool man: http://www.moolenaar.net/
        >
        > Download promotional calendar of VIM.
        >
        > Hans
        > --
        > Q: Is vi an easy editor to learn, is it intuitive?
        > A: Yes, some of us think so. But most people think that we are
        > crazy.
        > -- vi FAQ
        >
        >
        >
        > Unsubscribing info is here:
        > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • Hans Ginzel
        Hello! ... Great! ... Yes, it has. ... Do you mean the readonly mode? gvim -R file.pl ... Don t understand. Do you need to select better gui font? ... It is
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 3, 2003
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          Hello!

          > I've installed Gvim from that link.

          Great!

          > It has a lot of features and options.

          Yes, it has.

          > The bad thing is that it is not too friendly for a screen reader also.

          Do you mean the readonly mode?

          gvim -R file.pl

          > The text is accessible but the text is not very well read by my screen
          > reader.

          Don't understand. Do you need to select better gui font?

          > Another problem of this editor is that the Windows version is not a Windows
          > style program, and it is hard to configure it without reading a manual
          > unlike most Windows programs.

          It is _good_ to read manuals -- e.g. the Bible for the life, the
          washmachine manual if you wash your wear, the dirving rules and pass a
          driving exam before you start to go with (drive) a car; the tutorial part of
          perldoc before you programm perl, the rest of perldoc, when you grow in
          perl programming,...

          How elese do you want to grow? Throught the advertisement? Consume???

          If you want power in the whole time point of view, it is good to bring
          offers in the beginning.

          There are two manuals with gvim -- one reference book and one
          user friendly introduction. Try <Ctrl+O> : help <Return>
          And for a third an tutorial.

          I am vimming 7 years, and every mounth I learn something new. I like,
          that editor grows with me, or I with it. Gvim faithfully works for me
          for a long time.

          You don't need to learn lots of keybindings or so. You can start with
          gvim_easy as Windows notepad. Important is to understand 3 principles,
          not quantum of not related knowlage.

          > Another problem for those who don't have a Unix experience is that the
          > shortcuts for menu options are also in the Unix style and I don't even know
          > what those abreviations mean.

          They are not unix style, they are pure vimmish. Imagine, in the old
          good times (:-)) you didn't have mouse, you were sitting in front of a
          monochromatic terminal conected throught serial line to unix station;
          you wanted to compute the fluid problems of constructing an aeroplan or
          solve problems by designing a nuclear power plant. So you needed to edit
          lots of source code, you wanted to set marks in your files, you wanted
          to have 30 clipboards, not only one as M$ has in the next millenium,
          and so one.

          Nowdays you don't need to learn moving keys which stay for
          compatibility, because you have optical mouse with scrollweel and you
          know WordStar/M$ keybindigs like Arrows, Ctrl+Arrows, Shift+Arrows,
          Ctrl+Shift+Arrows, {Shift, Ctrl, Shift+Ctrl}+{Insert,Delete},
          you have keyboard with Home, End and PageUpDown keys etc.
          But you can still acces the cca 35 clipboards, put marks into your text,
          find a definition of function if you place cursor on a function calling,
          and other powerfull searching, work with huge source code tree, ...

          All features are quickly accesible from keyboard -- because mouse is
          slow, dialogs browsing with keys is slow if you type with all ten fingers.

          Problem is that MS teached you to edit in the style "row, column",
          but with vim you can edit in pieces like word, two words, sentence,
          paragraph, function which is more powerfull. Gvim can understand your
          text, understand messages from your compiler.
          Problem is you have MS experiences.
          Problem is that America is loosing righteousness of old great fathers
          of America.
          Problem is that there is an out of judgement solving of M$ problem.
          You can have super editors and super sw., but you will pay for it
          (not only with money, but with freedom of your soul).

          Vim has its own commandline (accesible thruth colon, or <Ctrl+O> : in
          easy_mode, Tab completes words). It is possible to write many commands
          there and even more, to program commands yourself. Very powerful design
          in 60's of potential enlarging. In w. you can only do what dialogs serv
          to you. This is principial difference and a one of the ways why vim will
          be always one of the best editors.

          Vim with all his features still fits one one floppy (syntax files on
          another one). You can choose Emacs, which is more powerfull, but it is
          more then editor.

          Gvim did many steps in past 5 years to become windows friendly, but
          some steps still could be done. Vim is free -- you can code your ideas.
          It's good to be friendly, but better is to choose your friends.

          Be as a child -- see your big father who can live an adult live and
          have the willing to became as he, but start with learning to walk. Once
          you became responsible to teach your childerns.
          How long did you learn to write with a pen?
          How long did you learn to type quickly with all fingers?
          If everithing should be done automaticly, you did not nead to live anywise.

          Tips: use slash (/) for searching, try <Ctrl+P> in insertmode,
          it makes word comletition within your file :-))),
          use Up/DownArrows for {command,search}line history.

          For other vim help let's go to vim@....

          Best regards

          Hans Ginzel
          --
          From Vim annoucement:

          Vim is used everywhere, also within Microsoft. This inspired Microsoft
          employees to take action. This is the message I received:

          > From: George Reilly
          > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:38 PM
          > Subject: Microsoft Vim Users raise $2650 for Ugandan Orphans
          >
          > Every Fall, Microsoft challenges its employees to raise money for
          > charity. Last year's Giving Campaign raised $28.5 million.
          >
          > This year, I challenged the Vim users at Microsoft to raise money for
          > their favorite text editor. Vim is a much improved version of the
          > classic Unix text editor, vi. It's also charityware. Bram Moolenaar, the
          > primary author of Vim, requests that satisified users help his favorite
          > charity, orphans in Kibaale, Uganda, through the International Child
          > Care Fund in Holland. ICCF has a Canadian affiliate, the Kibaale
          > Children's Fund. I worked with the KCF and MS@... to establish
          > that the KCF was eligible for Microsoft matching dollars.
          >
          > Eight Microsoft employees have just contributed US $1,375 to the KCF.
          > Microsoft will match $1,275 of that, yielding a total of $2,650.
          >
          > I'd like to thank everyone for contributing so generously.

          I am grateful for the Microsoft employees and Microsoft itself to help
          Vim's charityware concept. At least some of that 85% profit is going in
          the right direction! :-)

          I hope this inspires others to help the orphans in Uganda. The project
          is steadily growing, the more donations we receive, the more we can do
          for the poor and needy children. See http://iccf-holland.org

          If you are working for a company with a "double donation" scheme:
          Can you do better than Microsoft!?!?

          /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.moolenaar.net \\\
        • Octavian Rasnita
          I am telling that it is not too friendly for a screen reader because I am blind and I need another program to read the editor. I type the word ok , i put the
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 3, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            I am telling that it is not too friendly for a screen reader because I am
            blind and I need another program to read the editor.
            I type the word "ok", i put the cursor before "o" and my screen reader
            speaks it.
            I press the right arrow and my screen reader speaks "k".
            I press again the left cursor and my screen reader speaks "blank" instead of
            "o" and sometimes it speaks "o" and so on.

            Most of the time, my screen reader doesn't speak the first character from a
            line.

            And I don't understand why do I need to learn more when I can learn less
            time and do the same things I need.

            Maybe I am coding Perl for running in Windows and I don't need to know Unix
            at all.
            I run the perl programs under Linux, but I need to know just the basics.
            I don't want to be a perfect system administrator to know Linux very well,
            but a good Perl programmer.

            Teddy,
            Teddy's Center: http://teddy.fcc.ro/
            Email: orasnita@...

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Hans Ginzel" <hans@...>
            To: <perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 9:18 PM
            Subject: (OT) Re: [PBML] Textpad vs. Dzsoft Perl Editor: VIM (long)


            Hello!

            > I've installed Gvim from that link.

            Great!

            > It has a lot of features and options.

            Yes, it has.

            > The bad thing is that it is not too friendly for a screen reader also.

            Do you mean the readonly mode?

            gvim -R file.pl

            > The text is accessible but the text is not very well read by my screen
            > reader.

            Don't understand. Do you need to select better gui font?

            > Another problem of this editor is that the Windows version is not a
            Windows
            > style program, and it is hard to configure it without reading a manual
            > unlike most Windows programs.

            It is _good_ to read manuals -- e.g. the Bible for the life, the
            washmachine manual if you wash your wear, the dirving rules and pass a
            driving exam before you start to go with (drive) a car; the tutorial part of
            perldoc before you programm perl, the rest of perldoc, when you grow in
            perl programming,...

            How elese do you want to grow? Throught the advertisement? Consume???

            If you want power in the whole time point of view, it is good to bring
            offers in the beginning.

            There are two manuals with gvim -- one reference book and one
            user friendly introduction. Try <Ctrl+O> : help <Return>
            And for a third an tutorial.

            I am vimming 7 years, and every mounth I learn something new. I like,
            that editor grows with me, or I with it. Gvim faithfully works for me
            for a long time.

            You don't need to learn lots of keybindings or so. You can start with
            gvim_easy as Windows notepad. Important is to understand 3 principles,
            not quantum of not related knowlage.

            > Another problem for those who don't have a Unix experience is that the
            > shortcuts for menu options are also in the Unix style and I don't even
            know
            > what those abreviations mean.

            They are not unix style, they are pure vimmish. Imagine, in the old
            good times (:-)) you didn't have mouse, you were sitting in front of a
            monochromatic terminal conected throught serial line to unix station;
            you wanted to compute the fluid problems of constructing an aeroplan or
            solve problems by designing a nuclear power plant. So you needed to edit
            lots of source code, you wanted to set marks in your files, you wanted
            to have 30 clipboards, not only one as M$ has in the next millenium,
            and so one.

            Nowdays you don't need to learn moving keys which stay for
            compatibility, because you have optical mouse with scrollweel and you
            know WordStar/M$ keybindigs like Arrows, Ctrl+Arrows, Shift+Arrows,
            Ctrl+Shift+Arrows, {Shift, Ctrl, Shift+Ctrl}+{Insert,Delete},
            you have keyboard with Home, End and PageUpDown keys etc.
            But you can still acces the cca 35 clipboards, put marks into your text,
            find a definition of function if you place cursor on a function calling,
            and other powerfull searching, work with huge source code tree, ...

            All features are quickly accesible from keyboard -- because mouse is
            slow, dialogs browsing with keys is slow if you type with all ten fingers.

            Problem is that MS teached you to edit in the style "row, column",
            but with vim you can edit in pieces like word, two words, sentence,
            paragraph, function which is more powerfull. Gvim can understand your
            text, understand messages from your compiler.
            Problem is you have MS experiences.
            Problem is that America is loosing righteousness of old great fathers
            of America.
            Problem is that there is an out of judgement solving of M$ problem.
            You can have super editors and super sw., but you will pay for it
            (not only with money, but with freedom of your soul).

            Vim has its own commandline (accesible thruth colon, or <Ctrl+O> : in
            easy_mode, Tab completes words). It is possible to write many commands
            there and even more, to program commands yourself. Very powerful design
            in 60's of potential enlarging. In w. you can only do what dialogs serv
            to you. This is principial difference and a one of the ways why vim will
            be always one of the best editors.

            Vim with all his features still fits one one floppy (syntax files on
            another one). You can choose Emacs, which is more powerfull, but it is
            more then editor.

            Gvim did many steps in past 5 years to become windows friendly, but
            some steps still could be done. Vim is free -- you can code your ideas.
            It's good to be friendly, but better is to choose your friends.

            Be as a child -- see your big father who can live an adult live and
            have the willing to became as he, but start with learning to walk. Once
            you became responsible to teach your childerns.
            How long did you learn to write with a pen?
            How long did you learn to type quickly with all fingers?
            If everithing should be done automaticly, you did not nead to live anywise.

            Tips: use slash (/) for searching, try <Ctrl+P> in insertmode,
            it makes word comletition within your file :-))),
            use Up/DownArrows for {command,search}line history.

            For other vim help let's go to vim@....

            Best regards

            Hans Ginzel
            --
            From Vim annoucement:

            Vim is used everywhere, also within Microsoft. This inspired Microsoft
            employees to take action. This is the message I received:

            > From: George Reilly
            > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:38 PM
            > Subject: Microsoft Vim Users raise $2650 for Ugandan Orphans
            >
            > Every Fall, Microsoft challenges its employees to raise money for
            > charity. Last year's Giving Campaign raised $28.5 million.
            >
            > This year, I challenged the Vim users at Microsoft to raise money for
            > their favorite text editor. Vim is a much improved version of the
            > classic Unix text editor, vi. It's also charityware. Bram Moolenaar,
            the
            > primary author of Vim, requests that satisified users help his
            favorite
            > charity, orphans in Kibaale, Uganda, through the International Child
            > Care Fund in Holland. ICCF has a Canadian affiliate, the Kibaale
            > Children's Fund. I worked with the KCF and MS@... to
            establish
            > that the KCF was eligible for Microsoft matching dollars.
            >
            > Eight Microsoft employees have just contributed US $1,375 to the KCF.
            > Microsoft will match $1,275 of that, yielding a total of $2,650.
            >
            > I'd like to thank everyone for contributing so generously.

            I am grateful for the Microsoft employees and Microsoft itself to help
            Vim's charityware concept. At least some of that 85% profit is going in
            the right direction! :-)

            I hope this inspires others to help the orphans in Uganda. The project
            is steadily growing, the more donations we receive, the more we can do
            for the poor and needy children. See http://iccf-holland.org

            If you are working for a company with a "double donation" scheme:
            Can you do better than Microsoft!?!?

            /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.moolenaar.net \\\


            Unsubscribing info is here:
            http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html

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