Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [PBML] RE: Newbe was Random Number Generator

Expand Messages
  • Bryan Irvine
    I agree with Jenda. He got sooooo many hints it was rediculous, and he was even given the outright answer. If he needed more information, then he needs to ask
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 1, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      I agree with Jenda.

      He got sooooo many hints it was rediculous, and he was even given the
      outright answer. If he needed more information, then he needs to ask
      again. I told him to do a +5, if he didn't know how to do that, then he
      needs to say so.

      He's being a baby in my opinion

      Bryan


      On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 22:14, Jenda Krynicky wrote:
      > From: John Drabinowicz <jdrab@...>
      > > As a very new newcommer to Perl, I can testify that it can
      > > be very frustrating when the answer to a question is just
      > > beyond your grasp.
      >
      > Yeah, but please consider another thing.
      > The person who responds doesn't know pretty much anything about the
      > person who asked. He doesn't know his background, level of knowledge
      > of Perl (or other languages), his education, his IQ, ...
      >
      > It's hard to guess right how fool-proof does the response have to be.
      >
      > If you overestimate the other side, he will not grasp it.
      > If you underestimate him, he will take offence because he will think
      > you think he's stupid.
      >
      > Please think about this when the reply's too detailed.
      > And please ask again (telling us where exactly you had a problem) if
      > you do not grasp it.
      >
      > > Havn't you ever been frustrated when someone tryes to help
      > > but won't give you the last peice of the puzzle? happens
      > > a lot to me, I am just a bit more experienced in handling
      > > the frustration.
      >
      > Don't You like solving puzzles? ;-)
      >
      > Jenda
      > =========== Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==========
      > There is a reason for living. There must be. I've seen it somewhere.
      > It's just that in the mess on my table ... and in my brain
      > I can't find it.
      > --- me
      >
      >
      >
      > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Chuck Ouellette
      I have watched these posts concerning this Random Number Generator problem all day now, as a new comer I don t want to contribute or create any animosities
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 1, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        I have watched these posts concerning this "Random Number Generator" problem
        all day now, as a new comer I don't want to contribute or create any
        animosities since I have been very fortunate to receive a lot of valuable
        information and assistance from this group.

        However, and with all due respect, with the number of posts that have flown
        back and forth concerning this subject wouldn't it have been much easier to
        just answer the question? I must agree with john's post it can be
        frustrating, on the other hand, I know that when I post a question I do so
        only after I have exhausted "All avenues I can THINK of" prior to posting.
        This doesn't mean I have exhausted all avenues for the correct answer but by
        the time I have searched the web, read my 8 Perl books read the man pages I
        can find, my frustration level is about at its peak. The one difference is
        I am an old man now so I control my frustrations, and I am patient.
        Therefore when I receive less than helpful posts I just ignore them and don'
        t lower my own standards to acknowledge such replies.

        Rick,
        I am sorry your first post left you with such negative feelings. In the
        Groups defense please allow me to expand on some simple "User Group
        Etiquette" this will hold true regardless of which user group or groups you
        join.

        1. When making posts it is always good practice to tell the group exactly
        what avenues you took to locate the solution to your problem. This lets the
        group know that you're not being lazy and just asking for the
        answer/solution.
        2. We are all students of some discipline, however many of the people who
        post here work for a living and have their own problems to resolve therefore
        any answers you get are mere kindness from people who are taking valuable
        time out of their busy schedules to aid you, therefore if you haven't done
        any homework by A) reading the man pages. B) Reading other books on the
        subject. C) Searching the web for information. D) Trying other things.
        Then you can't really expect a reasonable answer to your question.
        3. When posting questions keep them as short as possible, to the point and
        supply any and all examples you have, this makes it easier for the replying
        party to see exactly what your problem is and provide you with a possible
        solution.
        4. Since you're new to Perl, I must ask if you are new to Programming? If
        you are remember this, there are MANY ways to accomplish the same exact
        task, some are stupid simple, and some are Really complex. What generally
        happens is every programmer has their own unique style to solving their
        problem therefore the flow one uses will be completely different than the
        flow another would use.

        I only hope that this helps you with future issues. I would hate to see you
        leave the group on one post, remember, if you follow the rules above you'll
        find this site more than helpful I know I have and I am a beginner in perl
        as well.

        Regards,

        PS. I will apologize now if I have offended anyone. (Well Partially
        apologize)

        Chuck

        -----Original Message-----
        From: John Drabinowicz [mailto:jdrab@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 5:09 PM
        To: 'perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com'
        Subject: [PBML] RE: Newbe was Random Number Generator

        Hi gang,

        As a very new newcommer to Perl, I can testify that it can
        be very frustrating when the answer to a question is just
        beyond your grasp.

        I'd like to request that you cut Rick some slack. When
        your learning a new language and there is a deadline and
        a lot of pressure to do good, then you naturally just want
        to get the answer.

        Havn't you ever been frustrated when someone tryes to help
        but won't give you the last peice of the puzzle? happens
        a lot to me, I am just a bit more experienced in handling
        the frustration.

        I Know where Rick is comming from as I'm new to perl, LWP,
        CPAN and Linux but have to learn it all to a work deadline.

        John D


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        ADVERTISEMENT

        <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=232673.2420628.3840241.2225243/D=egroupweb/S=17050069
        51:HM/A=1194123/R=0/*http://www.adinsdirect.com/>


        Unsubscribing info is here:
        http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jenda Krynicky
        From: John Drabinowicz ... Yeah, but please consider another thing. The person who responds doesn t know pretty much anything about the
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 1, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          From: John Drabinowicz <jdrab@...>
          > As a very new newcommer to Perl, I can testify that it can
          > be very frustrating when the answer to a question is just
          > beyond your grasp.

          Yeah, but please consider another thing.
          The person who responds doesn't know pretty much anything about the
          person who asked. He doesn't know his background, level of knowledge
          of Perl (or other languages), his education, his IQ, ...

          It's hard to guess right how fool-proof does the response have to be.

          If you overestimate the other side, he will not grasp it.
          If you underestimate him, he will take offence because he will think
          you think he's stupid.

          Please think about this when the reply's too detailed.
          And please ask again (telling us where exactly you had a problem) if
          you do not grasp it.

          > Havn't you ever been frustrated when someone tryes to help
          > but won't give you the last peice of the puzzle? happens
          > a lot to me, I am just a bit more experienced in handling
          > the frustration.

          Don't You like solving puzzles? ;-)

          Jenda
          =========== Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==========
          There is a reason for living. There must be. I've seen it somewhere.
          It's just that in the mess on my table ... and in my brain
          I can't find it.
          --- me
        • Charles K. Clarkson
          ... No. It would have expedient. The question Rick asked is not the question I heard. Like the proverbial fisherman, I didn t hear I have no answer . I heard
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 1, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Chuck Ouellette [mailto:chuck@...] wrote:

            : However, and with all due respect, with the number
            : of posts that have flown back and forth concerning
            : this subject wouldn't it have been much easier to
            : just answer the question?

            No. It would have expedient.
            The question Rick asked is not the question I
            heard. Like the proverbial fisherman, I didn't
            hear "I have no answer". I heard "I want to
            solve this problem." I, for one, answered the
            question I perceived. If Rick had been given the
            correct answer he would have gotten the answer,
            but would he have learned to solve the problem?

            I have to say this is a thin line. I feel
            like a hypocrite. Mine are some of the longest
            posts on the list. Had Rick said he needed the
            answer for work, I'd probably would have given
            him the correct answer.


            Things that make you go Mmmmmmm!

            Charles K. Clarkson
            --
            Head Bottle Washer,
            Clarkson Energy Homes, Inc.
            Small commercial and residential rehabilitation specialists.
            254 968-8328

            CJ Web Work - Solutions for Real Estate Investors.
            972 216-4952

            CJ Web Hosting - Affordable Hosting - Custom Accounts.
            254 968-8328
          • jake@thegoop.com
            Yes, i noticed you did give him the answer. i ve been asking if he knows how to do adding.... ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 1, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Yes, i noticed you did give him the answer. i've been asking if he knows
              how to do adding....

              At 08:24 AM 10/1/2002, you wrote:
              >I agree with Jenda.
              >
              >He got sooooo many hints it was rediculous, and he was even given the
              >outright answer. If he needed more information, then he needs to ask
              >again. I told him to do a +5, if he didn't know how to do that, then he
              >needs to say so.
              >
              >He's being a baby in my opinion
              >
              >Bryan
              >
              >
              >On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 22:14, Jenda Krynicky wrote:
              > > From: John Drabinowicz <jdrab@...>
              > > > As a very new newcommer to Perl, I can testify that it can
              > > > be very frustrating when the answer to a question is just
              > > > beyond your grasp.
              > >
              > > Yeah, but please consider another thing.
              > > The person who responds doesn't know pretty much anything about the
              > > person who asked. He doesn't know his background, level of knowledge
              > > of Perl (or other languages), his education, his IQ, ...
              > >
              > > It's hard to guess right how fool-proof does the response have to be.
              > >
              > > If you overestimate the other side, he will not grasp it.
              > > If you underestimate him, he will take offence because he will think
              > > you think he's stupid.
              > >
              > > Please think about this when the reply's too detailed.
              > > And please ask again (telling us where exactly you had a problem) if
              > > you do not grasp it.
              > >
              > > > Havn't you ever been frustrated when someone tryes to help
              > > > but won't give you the last peice of the puzzle? happens
              > > > a lot to me, I am just a bit more experienced in handling
              > > > the frustration.
              > >
              > > Don't You like solving puzzles? ;-)
              > >
              > > Jenda
              > > =========== Jenda@... ==
              > <http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz>http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==========
              > > There is a reason for living. There must be. I've seen it somewhere.
              > > It's just that in the mess on my table ... and in my brain
              > > I can't find it.
              > > --- me
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Unsubscribing info is here:
              > <http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html>http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
              >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >ADVERTISEMENT
              ><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=233351.2428261.3848243.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705006951:HM/A=1234045/R=2/id=noscript/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/grp/300_mapF/g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl>var
              >lrec_target="_top"; var lrec_URL = new Array();
              >lrec_URL[1]="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=233351.2428261.3848243.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705006951:HM/A=1234045/R=0/id=flashurl/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/grp/300_mapF/g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl";
              >var
              >lrec_flashfile="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/expert_city/090302_lrec_map.swf";
              >var
              >lrec_altURL="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=233351.2428261.3848243.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705006951:HM/A=1234045/R=1/id=altimgurl/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/grp/300_mapF/g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl";
              >var
              >lrec_altimg="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/expert_city/090302_lrec_map.gif";
              >var lrec_width=300; var lrec_height=250;
              >
              >Unsubscribing info is here:
              ><http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html>http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
              >
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
              ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Greg Webster
              Excellent post, thank you. Patience is much easier when you have some footing and some confidence in what you are doing. A short story...my father was a
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 1, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Excellent post, thank you.

                Patience is much easier when you have some footing and some confidence in
                what you are doing.

                A short story...my father was a heavy-duty mechanic, and in my teens I
                helped him out on a number of things. Once day I was working on the clutch
                to a large cat tractor, and had a piece of technology that I had to take
                apart...now I knew all about wrenches, screwdrivers, bolts and nuts, but
                there was nothing like this there. I tried like crazy to pry, pull, push
                and twist every part of it. Frustrated, I gave up, my father walked over
                with some weird toothed clamp tool and it came off in 3 seconds.

                Perl is just a set of tools...sometimes it's impossible to solve a problem
                without help because you may need a specific tool that you've never even
                thought existed. The frustration comes in there because in many cases you
                can't even know how to describe the tool to fix the problem (ie. what you
                need to ask to get the right answer).

                Thanks to all who spend their time giving answers...right or wrong.

                Greg Webster
                List Owner

                On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Chuck Ouellette wrote:
                > I have watched these posts concerning this "Random Number Generator" problem
                > all day now, as a new comer I don't want to contribute or create any
                > animosities since I have been very fortunate to receive a lot of valuable
                > information and assistance from this group.
                >
                > However, and with all due respect, with the number of posts that have flown
                > back and forth concerning this subject wouldn't it have been much easier to
                > just answer the question? I must agree with john's post it can be
                > frustrating, on the other hand, I know that when I post a question I do so
                > only after I have exhausted "All avenues I can THINK of" prior to posting.
                > This doesn't mean I have exhausted all avenues for the correct answer but by
                > the time I have searched the web, read my 8 Perl books read the man pages I
                > can find, my frustration level is about at its peak. The one difference is
                > I am an old man now so I control my frustrations, and I am patient.
                > Therefore when I receive less than helpful posts I just ignore them and don'
                > t lower my own standards to acknowledge such replies.
                >
                > Rick,
                > I am sorry your first post left you with such negative feelings. In the
                > Groups defense please allow me to expand on some simple "User Group
                > Etiquette" this will hold true regardless of which user group or groups you
                > join.
                >
                > 1. When making posts it is always good practice to tell the group exactly
                > what avenues you took to locate the solution to your problem. This lets the
                > group know that you're not being lazy and just asking for the
                > answer/solution.
                > 2. We are all students of some discipline, however many of the people who
                > post here work for a living and have their own problems to resolve therefore
                > any answers you get are mere kindness from people who are taking valuable
                > time out of their busy schedules to aid you, therefore if you haven't done
                > any homework by A) reading the man pages. B) Reading other books on the
                > subject. C) Searching the web for information. D) Trying other things.
                > Then you can't really expect a reasonable answer to your question.
                > 3. When posting questions keep them as short as possible, to the point and
                > supply any and all examples you have, this makes it easier for the replying
                > party to see exactly what your problem is and provide you with a possible
                > solution.
                > 4. Since you're new to Perl, I must ask if you are new to Programming? If
                > you are remember this, there are MANY ways to accomplish the same exact
                > task, some are stupid simple, and some are Really complex. What generally
                > happens is every programmer has their own unique style to solving their
                > problem therefore the flow one uses will be completely different than the
                > flow another would use.
                >
                > I only hope that this helps you with future issues. I would hate to see you
                > leave the group on one post, remember, if you follow the rules above you'll
                > find this site more than helpful I know I have and I am a beginner in perl
                > as well.
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > PS. I will apologize now if I have offended anyone. (Well Partially
                > apologize)
                >
                > Chuck
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: John Drabinowicz [mailto:jdrab@...]
                > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 5:09 PM
                > To: 'perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com'
                > Subject: [PBML] RE: Newbe was Random Number Generator
                >
                > Hi gang,
                >
                > As a very new newcommer to Perl, I can testify that it can
                > be very frustrating when the answer to a question is just
                > beyond your grasp.
                >
                > I'd like to request that you cut Rick some slack. When
                > your learning a new language and there is a deadline and
                > a lot of pressure to do good, then you naturally just want
                > to get the answer.
                >
                > Havn't you ever been frustrated when someone tryes to help
                > but won't give you the last peice of the puzzle? happens
                > a lot to me, I am just a bit more experienced in handling
                > the frustration.
                >
                > I Know where Rick is comming from as I'm new to perl, LWP,
                > CPAN and Linux but have to learn it all to a work deadline.
                >
                > John D
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                >
                > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=232673.2420628.3840241.2225243/D=egroupweb/S=17050069
                > 51:HM/A=1194123/R=0/*http://www.adinsdirect.com/>
                >
                >
                > Unsubscribing info is here:
                > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.