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Re: [PBML] Re: Random Number Generator

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  • Bryan Irvine
    I _DID_ tell him to add 5 in one of mine and even gave some code...so he needs to start reading and not get so frustrated. If you are still on the list, calm
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
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      I _DID_ tell him to add 5 in one of mine and even gave some code...so he
      needs to start reading and not get so frustrated.

      If you are still on the list, calm down a smidge...

      sheesh!



      On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 19:16, Jenda Krynicky wrote:
      > From: "RicK" <rik408@...>
      >
      > > Know what?
      > > I think I can do without this group.
      > > I asked a simple question, and all I got back were condescending and
      > > patronizing remarks. I thought this was a group for beginning Perl
      > > programmers, but I see a few big fish living in this little pond.
      > > Sorry for asking my question. Actually a large part of the class had
      > > problems with it. We all thought it was a bit much to ask us to do in
      > > the FIRST week of class. Anyway, thanks for making a newcomer feel so
      > > "welcome".
      > >
      > > Outtie,
      > > Rick
      >
      > I'm sorry if you feel offended.
      >
      > I really could not believe someone could have problems with this if
      > he tried.
      >
      > If you want to be angry on someone, be angry at your math teacher.
      > He/She aparently did not do his/her job well.
      >
      > In this case instead of telling you to add 5 to the rand(10), we
      > tried to give you hints. Instead of giving you a fish we all tried to
      > force you to learn to fish.
      >
      > Programming is NOT writing code, programming is solving problems!
      > You can't expect to find the solution to each and every of your
      > problems in a book or be taught in lessons. YOU are the one who is
      > supposed to find solutions. Writing the code is the easy part,
      > finding the solution, considering all posible cases and errors is the
      > hard part. But that's what YOU are (will be) there for.
      >
      > Jenda
      > P.S.: As for what this group is for. This group IS for beginning Perl
      > programmers. It was made to aid in their LEARNING.
      > It's up to you if you stay, but be prepared to get hints instead of
      > solutions. And be prepared to look stupid from time to time. We all
      > use(d) to.
      > == Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
      > I wonder why the whole chemistry industry ignores
      > computer bugs. We all would gladly pay big bucks
      > for a functional insecticide.
      >
      >
      >
      > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Bryan Irvine
      he got a _TON_ of hints and several examples of code even, I can think of 4 although 2 were what jenda would call a cannon ;-) Bryan
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
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        he got a _TON_ of hints and several examples of code even, I can think
        of 4 although 2 were what jenda would call a "cannon" ;-)

        Bryan

        On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 20:56, Sean Correia wrote:
        > > It may come across as condesending, but its not really..
        >
        > I disagree. He didn't ask for a mentor, he asked a question. It's his problem if he wants to shortcut the learning process not our concern to babysit him and offer him friendly advice. I am sure there are other groups for that.
        >
        > > imagine what your
        > > teacher would think if you handed him some really excellent code that
        > > answers the question perfectly.. I imagine he/she would
        > > rightly assume that
        > > you "had alot of help"
        >
        > Imagine what some people's bosses would think if they found out their 'programmers' were asking questions about stuff they should already know.
        >
        > It's bullshit that if someone asks a homework related question he gets no answer and hints, but if someone asks a job related question they get whole programs.
        >
        > Just my .02
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Sean
        >
        >
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        >
        >
      • Jenda Krynicky
        From: RicK ... I m sorry if you feel offended. I really could not believe someone could have problems with this if he tried. If you want
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
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          From: "RicK" <rik408@...>

          > Know what?
          > I think I can do without this group.
          > I asked a simple question, and all I got back were condescending and
          > patronizing remarks. I thought this was a group for beginning Perl
          > programmers, but I see a few big fish living in this little pond.
          > Sorry for asking my question. Actually a large part of the class had
          > problems with it. We all thought it was a bit much to ask us to do in
          > the FIRST week of class. Anyway, thanks for making a newcomer feel so
          > "welcome".
          >
          > Outtie,
          > Rick

          I'm sorry if you feel offended.

          I really could not believe someone could have problems with this if
          he tried.

          If you want to be angry on someone, be angry at your math teacher.
          He/She aparently did not do his/her job well.

          In this case instead of telling you to add 5 to the rand(10), we
          tried to give you hints. Instead of giving you a fish we all tried to
          force you to learn to fish.

          Programming is NOT writing code, programming is solving problems!
          You can't expect to find the solution to each and every of your
          problems in a book or be taught in lessons. YOU are the one who is
          supposed to find solutions. Writing the code is the easy part,
          finding the solution, considering all posible cases and errors is the
          hard part. But that's what YOU are (will be) there for.

          Jenda
          P.S.: As for what this group is for. This group IS for beginning Perl
          programmers. It was made to aid in their LEARNING.
          It's up to you if you stay, but be prepared to get hints instead of
          solutions. And be prepared to look stupid from time to time. We all
          use(d) to.
          == Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
          I wonder why the whole chemistry industry ignores
          computer bugs. We all would gladly pay big bucks
          for a functional insecticide.
        • Franki
          actually, you got alot more hints then I usually do... This group is used to students asking questions here, and generally, its considered a bad thing to hand
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
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            actually, you got alot more hints then I usually do...

            This group is used to students asking questions here, and generally, its
            considered a bad thing to hand the student the answer on a platter.. you got
            an awful lot of hints on how to do it, none of them were condesending... if
            they had handed you the answer, would you have learned as much as had you
            worked it out for yourself???

            I seem to learn more by this list NOT giving me answers, makes me search
            google harder :-)

            It may come across as condesending, but its not really.. imagine what your
            teacher would think if you handed him some really excellent code that
            answers the question perfectly.. I imagine he/she would rightly assume that
            you "had alot of help"

            I doubt he even expected too many "perfect answers" from his students, as
            Jenda said, its more about learning to think in a certain way then it is
            about the actual code.. thats a lessen I only learned recently...

            I am sure that anyone here would have handed you the answer had no not
            mentioned taking a class... Its like being told the end of a movie before
            you see it.. it ruins the experience,, not to mention the benefit.

            rgds

            Franki



            -----Original Message-----
            From: RicK [mailto:rik408@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, 2 October 2002 2:36 AM
            To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [PBML] Re: Random Number Generator


            Know what?
            I think I can do without this group.
            I asked a simple question, and all I got back were condescending and
            patronizing remarks. I thought this was a group for beginning Perl
            programmers, but I see a few big fish living in this little pond.
            Sorry for asking my question. Actually a large part of the class had
            problems with it. We all thought it was a bit much to ask us to do in
            the FIRST week of class.
            Anyway, thanks for making a newcomer feel so "welcome".

            Outtie,
            Rick



            --- In perl-beginner@y..., "Jenda Krynicky" <Jenda@K...> wrote:
            > From: "RicK" <rik408@y...>
            >
            > > I already stated that I know how to generate a random number
            between 1
            > > and 10. It is essentially by multiplying the rand by 10:
            > >
            > > # print a random number between range of 0 and 10.
            > > print("rand(), ", rand(10), "\n");
            > >
            > > I am not sure why everyone is being so coy about this.
            > > Its not like I am trying to "cheat" on my homework or something.
            > > I just thought it curious that we would be assigned a problem in
            the
            > > 2nd week of class where no reference on how to do it was in the
            text,
            > > and was not gone over in class. I was just wondering if anyone
            had a
            > > clue as to how this was done.
            > >
            > > rick
            >
            > Oh well ... may I ask you how old are you?
            >
            > This is not a programming problem, this is basic math!
            >
            > If you know X is between 0 and 10, how do you compute Y that would
            be
            > between 5 and 15?
            >
            > Or suppose you have a function f() that returns values in range 0
            to
            > 10, and you want to create a function g() whose chart would look
            the
            > same, except that the values would be between 5 and 15?
            >
            > THINK!
            >
            > Jenda
            >
            > =========== Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==========
            > There is a reason for living. There must be. I've seen it somewhere.
            > It's just that in the mess on my table ... and in my brain
            > I can't find it.
            > --- me



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          • Sean Correia
            ... I disagree. He didn t ask for a mentor, he asked a question. It s his problem if he wants to shortcut the learning process not our concern to babysit him
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
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              > It may come across as condesending, but its not really..

              I disagree. He didn't ask for a mentor, he asked a question. It's his problem if he wants to shortcut the learning process not our concern to babysit him and offer him friendly advice. I am sure there are other groups for that.

              > imagine what your
              > teacher would think if you handed him some really excellent code that
              > answers the question perfectly.. I imagine he/she would
              > rightly assume that
              > you "had alot of help"

              Imagine what some people's bosses would think if they found out their 'programmers' were asking questions about stuff they should already know.

              It's bullshit that if someone asks a homework related question he gets no answer and hints, but if someone asks a job related question they get whole programs.

              Just my .02

              Cheers,
              Sean
            • Mike Dillinger
              Original Message: From: Sean Correia Date: Tuesday October 01 2002 01:56PM PT SC Imagine what some people s bosses would think
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
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                Original Message:
                From: Sean Correia <perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Tuesday October 01 2002 01:56PM PT

                SC> Imagine what some people's bosses would think if they found out their
                SC> 'programmers' were asking questions about stuff they should already
                SC> know.

                SC> It's bullshit that if someone asks a homework related question he gets
                SC> no answer and hints, but if someone asks a job related question they
                SC> get whole programs.

                I would have to agree. It's not the group's role to play God. It's a PERL
                help list, so let's help.

                Wherever you go, people are going to succeed and move up the ladder by
                cheating. So you maybe able to stop it here, but the person will find help
                elsewhere. You're basically just delaying the inevitable. BTW - I'm
                saying anyone does this, I'm just saying it's difficult to prevent
                cheating, and especially over e-mail.

                I would suggest first, get the person on the right thought process, without
                necessarily giving out code. If they come back for more help, then help
                them out with specific code.

                It's certainly not our job to chose who/how/when we help. The help should
                be unbiased.

                -MikeD
              • jake@thegoop.com
                I completely agree Jenda. You need to not look only for a straight answer, but instead take the hints, and try to figure out what it means and put them
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
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                  I completely agree Jenda. You need to not look only for a straight answer,
                  but instead take the hints, and try to figure out what it means and put
                  them together with what you already know. Not every program you need will
                  already have the code written in a book, on a website, or taught in
                  class. What WILL be there is techniques to use different things with the
                  code, and it will be up to you to put those together and make the program
                  you need.
                  Any way, my question: Rick, do you know how to add two numbers together in
                  Perl?


                  At 12:16 PM 10/1/2002, you wrote:
                  >From: "RicK" <rik408@...>
                  >
                  > > Know what?
                  > > I think I can do without this group.
                  > > I asked a simple question, and all I got back were condescending and
                  > > patronizing remarks. I thought this was a group for beginning Perl
                  > > programmers, but I see a few big fish living in this little pond.
                  > > Sorry for asking my question. Actually a large part of the class had
                  > > problems with it. We all thought it was a bit much to ask us to do in
                  > > the FIRST week of class. Anyway, thanks for making a newcomer feel so
                  > > "welcome".
                  > >
                  > > Outtie,
                  > > Rick
                  >I'm sorry if you feel offended.
                  >
                  >I really could not believe someone could have problems with this if
                  >he tried.
                  >
                  >If you want to be angry on someone, be angry at your math teacher.
                  >He/She aparently did not do his/her job well.
                  >
                  >In this case instead of telling you to add 5 to the rand(10), we
                  >tried to give you hints. Instead of giving you a fish we all tried to
                  >force you to learn to fish.
                  >
                  >Programming is NOT writing code, programming is solving problems!
                  >You can't expect to find the solution to each and every of your
                  >problems in a book or be taught in lessons. YOU are the one who is
                  >supposed to find solutions. Writing the code is the easy part,
                  >finding the solution, considering all posible cases and errors is the
                  >hard part. But that's what YOU are (will be) there for.
                  >
                  >Jenda
                  >P.S.: As for what this group is for. This group IS for beginning Perl
                  >programmers. It was made to aid in their LEARNING.
                  >It's up to you if you stay, but be prepared to get hints instead of
                  >solutions. And be prepared to look stupid from time to time. We all
                  >use(d) to.
                  >== Jenda@... == <http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz>http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                  >I wonder why the whole chemistry industry ignores
                  >computer bugs. We all would gladly pay big bucks
                  >for a functional insecticide.
                  >
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  >ADVERTISEMENT
                  >
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                  ><http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html>http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
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                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                  ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • jake@thegoop.com
                  ... i never was playing God, and i dont think anyone else was trying to. We were just tryin to give the person (Rick) a learning experience, so he (I m
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
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                    At 02:42 PM 10/1/2002, you wrote:
                    >Original Message:
                    >From: Sean Correia <perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Date: Tuesday October 01 2002 01:56PM PT
                    >
                    >SC> Imagine what some people's bosses would think if they found out their
                    >SC> 'programmers' were asking questions about stuff they should already
                    >SC> know.
                    >
                    >SC> It's bullshit that if someone asks a homework related question he gets
                    >SC> no answer and hints, but if someone asks a job related question they
                    >SC> get whole programs.
                    >
                    >I would have to agree. It's not the group's role to play God. It's a PERL
                    >help list, so let's help.

                    i never was playing God, and i dont think anyone else was trying to. We
                    were just tryin to give the person (Rick) a learning experience, so he (I'm
                    assuming he) gets more self satisfaction from figuring it out more or less
                    himself, rather than just bein told the code with no explanation or anythin
                    really.


                    >Wherever you go, people are going to succeed and move up the ladder by
                    >cheating. So you maybe able to stop it here, but the person will find help
                    >elsewhere. You're basically just delaying the inevitable. BTW - I'm
                    >saying anyone does this, I'm just saying it's difficult to prevent
                    >cheating, and especially over e-mail.
                    >
                    >I would suggest first, get the person on the right thought process, without
                    >necessarily giving out code. If they come back for more help, then help
                    >them out with specific code.

                    Again, what i was doing, maybe a little slow tho...also what the others
                    where doin.


                    >It's certainly not our job to chose who/how/when we help. The help should
                    >be unbiased.
                    >
                    >-MikeD
                    >
                    >
                    >
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