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Re: [PBML] Random Number Generator

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  • Bryan Irvine
    Oh hehe lol, ya i understood the sparrow thing :-) Note: i reposted some better code a couple minutes after i sent that cannon :-)
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
      Oh hehe lol, ya i understood the sparrow thing :-)



      Note: i reposted some better code a couple minutes after i sent that
      "cannon" :-)



      On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 09:36, Jenda Krynicky wrote:
      > From: Bryan Irvine <bryan.irvine@...>
      >
      > > Wouldn't they both have the same potential for an infinite loop?
      > > I like yours better, it looks cleaner, but does it not have the same
      > > problems? ie. the number generator for some reason never generates a
      > > number of 5 or higher? (highly improbable i know, but you could run
      > > into instances where it just takes a long time to finish processing).
      > >
      > > Bryan Irivne
      > >
      >
      > Oooops. MY POST WAS JUST A JOKE!
      >
      > > On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 08:59, Jenda Krynicky wrote:
      > > > If we are gonna try and shoot the sparrow with a cannon, why
      > > > couldn't we use a recursive function?
      > > >
      > > > ...
      >
      > In Czech "to go and shoot a sparrow with a cannon" means to use
      > something very big to do something very small. To take a tool that's
      > too powerfull for the task. To do something complex if something dead
      > simple would be enough.
      >
      > Jenda
      > =========== Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==========
      > There is a reason for living. There must be. I've seen it somewhere.
      > It's just that in the mess on my table ... and in my brain
      > I can't find it.
      > --- me
      >
      >
      >
      > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Bryan Irvine
      I _DID_ tell him to add 5 in one of mine and even gave some code...so he needs to start reading and not get so frustrated. If you are still on the list, calm
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
        I _DID_ tell him to add 5 in one of mine and even gave some code...so he
        needs to start reading and not get so frustrated.

        If you are still on the list, calm down a smidge...

        sheesh!



        On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 19:16, Jenda Krynicky wrote:
        > From: "RicK" <rik408@...>
        >
        > > Know what?
        > > I think I can do without this group.
        > > I asked a simple question, and all I got back were condescending and
        > > patronizing remarks. I thought this was a group for beginning Perl
        > > programmers, but I see a few big fish living in this little pond.
        > > Sorry for asking my question. Actually a large part of the class had
        > > problems with it. We all thought it was a bit much to ask us to do in
        > > the FIRST week of class. Anyway, thanks for making a newcomer feel so
        > > "welcome".
        > >
        > > Outtie,
        > > Rick
        >
        > I'm sorry if you feel offended.
        >
        > I really could not believe someone could have problems with this if
        > he tried.
        >
        > If you want to be angry on someone, be angry at your math teacher.
        > He/She aparently did not do his/her job well.
        >
        > In this case instead of telling you to add 5 to the rand(10), we
        > tried to give you hints. Instead of giving you a fish we all tried to
        > force you to learn to fish.
        >
        > Programming is NOT writing code, programming is solving problems!
        > You can't expect to find the solution to each and every of your
        > problems in a book or be taught in lessons. YOU are the one who is
        > supposed to find solutions. Writing the code is the easy part,
        > finding the solution, considering all posible cases and errors is the
        > hard part. But that's what YOU are (will be) there for.
        >
        > Jenda
        > P.S.: As for what this group is for. This group IS for beginning Perl
        > programmers. It was made to aid in their LEARNING.
        > It's up to you if you stay, but be prepared to get hints instead of
        > solutions. And be prepared to look stupid from time to time. We all
        > use(d) to.
        > == Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
        > I wonder why the whole chemistry industry ignores
        > computer bugs. We all would gladly pay big bucks
        > for a functional insecticide.
        >
        >
        >
        > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Bryan Irvine
        he got a _TON_ of hints and several examples of code even, I can think of 4 although 2 were what jenda would call a cannon ;-) Bryan
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
          he got a _TON_ of hints and several examples of code even, I can think
          of 4 although 2 were what jenda would call a "cannon" ;-)

          Bryan

          On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 20:56, Sean Correia wrote:
          > > It may come across as condesending, but its not really..
          >
          > I disagree. He didn't ask for a mentor, he asked a question. It's his problem if he wants to shortcut the learning process not our concern to babysit him and offer him friendly advice. I am sure there are other groups for that.
          >
          > > imagine what your
          > > teacher would think if you handed him some really excellent code that
          > > answers the question perfectly.. I imagine he/she would
          > > rightly assume that
          > > you "had alot of help"
          >
          > Imagine what some people's bosses would think if they found out their 'programmers' were asking questions about stuff they should already know.
          >
          > It's bullshit that if someone asks a homework related question he gets no answer and hints, but if someone asks a job related question they get whole programs.
          >
          > Just my .02
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Sean
          >
          >
          > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • Bryan Irvine
          I m not gonna test it out as it is indeed for homework. I might try something like this $number = rand(15); while ( $number
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
            I'm not gonna test it out as it is indeed for homework. I might try
            something like this


            $number = rand(15);
            while ("$number" < 5){
            $number = rand(15);
            }
            print "$number";

            I'm no perl wizard, but that should generate a random number of 15 or
            lower, test it to make sure it is lower than 5 if not run it again.

            This does of course have the possibly to loop forever, so i'd look for a
            better solution. It should work albeit poorly.

            Bryan Irvine

            On Mon, 2002-09-30 at 15:42, RicK wrote:
            > Hello all,
            > Just joined and new to Perl.
            > Well...we were assigned a chapter exercise, where of course, one of
            > the problems were not gone over in the text, or in class.
            > The thing is to generate a random number. I know who to do that for
            > results from 0-1, or from say 0 and 10, but when it is a differing
            > range, I can't seem to figure it out.
            >
            > For this example, the number to be generated is from 5 to 15
            >
            > Here is what i have:
            >
            > #!/usr/bin/perl
            > #Generates a random number between various ranges
            >
            > print ("Enter Seed Number : ");
            >
            > srand (<STDIN>);
            >
            > $first = int(rand (5..15));
            >
            > print ("A\) The random number from 5 to 15 is $first \n");
            >
            > #End of program
            >
            > --
            > No matter what random seed I input, I always get "0".
            > Can anyone see what the problem is? The code itself does not generate
            > any errors. Is there a "between" function I can use?
            > Here are the other sets of numbers I need to figure out:
            >
            > FROM -10 to 20
            > FROM 300 to 305
            > FROM 2 to 3
            >
            > Any help will be greatly appreciated, and I will return the favor to
            > anyone anytime I can.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Rick
            >
            >
            >
            > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
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            >
            >
          • Jenda Krynicky
            From: Bryan Irvine ... If we are gonna try and shoot the sparrow with a cannon, why couldn t we use a recursive function?
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
              From: Bryan Irvine <bryan.irvine@...>
              > I'm not gonna test it out as it is indeed for homework. I might try
              > something like this
              >
              > $number = rand(15);
              > while ("$number" < 5){
              > $number = rand(15);
              > }
              > print "$number";
              >
              > I'm no perl wizard, but that should generate a random number of 15 or
              > lower, test it to make sure it is lower than 5 if not run it again.

              If we are gonna try and shoot the sparrow with a cannon, why couldn't
              we use a recursive function?


              sub my_rand {
              my $number = rand(15);
              if ($number < 5){
              return my_rand();
              } else {
              return $number ;
              }
              }

              print my_rand();

              Jenda
              =========== Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==========
              There is a reason for living. There must be. I've seen it somewhere.
              It's just that in the mess on my table ... and in my brain
              I can't find it.
              --- me
            • SykkN
              I think that this would work rather well. ============================================ #!/usr/bin/perl -w srand(time() / $$); while(1) { @numberList = (5..10);
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
                I think that this would work rather well.

                ============================================
                #!/usr/bin/perl -w

                srand(time() / $$);

                while(1) {
                @numberList = (5..10);
                $randomNumber = $numberList[rand(@numberList)],"\n";
                print $randomNumber,"\n";
                sleep 1;
                }
                =============================================


                SykkN
                talk: sykkn@...
                visit: http://www.linuxforums.org
              • Bryan Irvine
                Wouldn t they both have the same potential for an infinite loop? I like yours better, it looks cleaner, but does it not have the same problems? ie. the number
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
                  Wouldn't they both have the same potential for an infinite loop?
                  I like yours better, it looks cleaner, but does it not have the same
                  problems? ie. the number generator for some reason never generates a
                  number of 5 or higher? (highly improbable i know, but you could run into
                  instances where it just takes a long time to finish processing).

                  Bryan Irivne


                  On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 08:59, Jenda Krynicky wrote:
                  > From: Bryan Irvine <bryan.irvine@...>
                  > > I'm not gonna test it out as it is indeed for homework. I might try
                  > > something like this
                  > >
                  > > $number = rand(15);
                  > > while ("$number" < 5){
                  > > $number = rand(15);
                  > > }
                  > > print "$number";
                  > >
                  > > I'm no perl wizard, but that should generate a random number of 15 or
                  > > lower, test it to make sure it is lower than 5 if not run it again.
                  >
                  > If we are gonna try and shoot the sparrow with a cannon, why couldn't
                  > we use a recursive function?
                  >
                  >
                  > sub my_rand {
                  > my $number = rand(15);
                  > if ($number < 5){
                  > return my_rand();
                  > } else {
                  > return $number ;
                  > }
                  > }
                  >
                  > print my_rand();
                  >
                  > Jenda
                  > =========== Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==========
                  > There is a reason for living. There must be. I've seen it somewhere.
                  > It's just that in the mess on my table ... and in my brain
                  > I can't find it.
                  > --- me
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Unsubscribing info is here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-32.html
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Jenda Krynicky
                  From: Bryan Irvine ... Oooops. MY POST WAS JUST A JOKE! ... In Czech to go and shoot a sparrow with a cannon means to use
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
                    From: Bryan Irvine <bryan.irvine@...>

                    > Wouldn't they both have the same potential for an infinite loop?
                    > I like yours better, it looks cleaner, but does it not have the same
                    > problems? ie. the number generator for some reason never generates a
                    > number of 5 or higher? (highly improbable i know, but you could run
                    > into instances where it just takes a long time to finish processing).
                    >
                    > Bryan Irivne
                    >

                    Oooops. MY POST WAS JUST A JOKE!

                    > On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 08:59, Jenda Krynicky wrote:
                    > > If we are gonna try and shoot the sparrow with a cannon, why
                    > > couldn't we use a recursive function?
                    > >
                    > > ...

                    In Czech "to go and shoot a sparrow with a cannon" means to use
                    something very big to do something very small. To take a tool that's
                    too powerfull for the task. To do something complex if something dead
                    simple would be enough.

                    Jenda
                    =========== Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==========
                    There is a reason for living. There must be. I've seen it somewhere.
                    It's just that in the mess on my table ... and in my brain
                    I can't find it.
                    --- me
                  • RicK
                    Know what? I think I can do without this group. I asked a simple question, and all I got back were condescending and patronizing remarks. I thought this was a
                    Message 9 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
                      Know what?
                      I think I can do without this group.
                      I asked a simple question, and all I got back were condescending and
                      patronizing remarks. I thought this was a group for beginning Perl
                      programmers, but I see a few big fish living in this little pond.
                      Sorry for asking my question. Actually a large part of the class had
                      problems with it. We all thought it was a bit much to ask us to do in
                      the FIRST week of class.
                      Anyway, thanks for making a newcomer feel so "welcome".

                      Outtie,
                      Rick



                      --- In perl-beginner@y..., "Jenda Krynicky" <Jenda@K...> wrote:
                      > From: "RicK" <rik408@y...>
                      >
                      > > I already stated that I know how to generate a random number
                      between 1
                      > > and 10. It is essentially by multiplying the rand by 10:
                      > >
                      > > # print a random number between range of 0 and 10.
                      > > print("rand(), ", rand(10), "\n");
                      > >
                      > > I am not sure why everyone is being so coy about this.
                      > > Its not like I am trying to "cheat" on my homework or something.
                      > > I just thought it curious that we would be assigned a problem in
                      the
                      > > 2nd week of class where no reference on how to do it was in the
                      text,
                      > > and was not gone over in class. I was just wondering if anyone
                      had a
                      > > clue as to how this was done.
                      > >
                      > > rick
                      >
                      > Oh well ... may I ask you how old are you?
                      >
                      > This is not a programming problem, this is basic math!
                      >
                      > If you know X is between 0 and 10, how do you compute Y that would
                      be
                      > between 5 and 15?
                      >
                      > Or suppose you have a function f() that returns values in range 0
                      to
                      > 10, and you want to create a function g() whose chart would look
                      the
                      > same, except that the values would be between 5 and 15?
                      >
                      > THINK!
                      >
                      > Jenda
                      >
                      > =========== Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==========
                      > There is a reason for living. There must be. I've seen it somewhere.
                      > It's just that in the mess on my table ... and in my brain
                      > I can't find it.
                      > --- me
                    • Jenda Krynicky
                      From: RicK ... I m sorry if you feel offended. I really could not believe someone could have problems with this if he tried. If you want
                      Message 10 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
                        From: "RicK" <rik408@...>

                        > Know what?
                        > I think I can do without this group.
                        > I asked a simple question, and all I got back were condescending and
                        > patronizing remarks. I thought this was a group for beginning Perl
                        > programmers, but I see a few big fish living in this little pond.
                        > Sorry for asking my question. Actually a large part of the class had
                        > problems with it. We all thought it was a bit much to ask us to do in
                        > the FIRST week of class. Anyway, thanks for making a newcomer feel so
                        > "welcome".
                        >
                        > Outtie,
                        > Rick

                        I'm sorry if you feel offended.

                        I really could not believe someone could have problems with this if
                        he tried.

                        If you want to be angry on someone, be angry at your math teacher.
                        He/She aparently did not do his/her job well.

                        In this case instead of telling you to add 5 to the rand(10), we
                        tried to give you hints. Instead of giving you a fish we all tried to
                        force you to learn to fish.

                        Programming is NOT writing code, programming is solving problems!
                        You can't expect to find the solution to each and every of your
                        problems in a book or be taught in lessons. YOU are the one who is
                        supposed to find solutions. Writing the code is the easy part,
                        finding the solution, considering all posible cases and errors is the
                        hard part. But that's what YOU are (will be) there for.

                        Jenda
                        P.S.: As for what this group is for. This group IS for beginning Perl
                        programmers. It was made to aid in their LEARNING.
                        It's up to you if you stay, but be prepared to get hints instead of
                        solutions. And be prepared to look stupid from time to time. We all
                        use(d) to.
                        == Jenda@... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                        I wonder why the whole chemistry industry ignores
                        computer bugs. We all would gladly pay big bucks
                        for a functional insecticide.
                      • Franki
                        actually, you got alot more hints then I usually do... This group is used to students asking questions here, and generally, its considered a bad thing to hand
                        Message 11 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
                          actually, you got alot more hints then I usually do...

                          This group is used to students asking questions here, and generally, its
                          considered a bad thing to hand the student the answer on a platter.. you got
                          an awful lot of hints on how to do it, none of them were condesending... if
                          they had handed you the answer, would you have learned as much as had you
                          worked it out for yourself???

                          I seem to learn more by this list NOT giving me answers, makes me search
                          google harder :-)

                          It may come across as condesending, but its not really.. imagine what your
                          teacher would think if you handed him some really excellent code that
                          answers the question perfectly.. I imagine he/she would rightly assume that
                          you "had alot of help"

                          I doubt he even expected too many "perfect answers" from his students, as
                          Jenda said, its more about learning to think in a certain way then it is
                          about the actual code.. thats a lessen I only learned recently...

                          I am sure that anyone here would have handed you the answer had no not
                          mentioned taking a class... Its like being told the end of a movie before
                          you see it.. it ruins the experience,, not to mention the benefit.

                          rgds

                          Franki



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: RicK [mailto:rik408@...]
                          Sent: Wednesday, 2 October 2002 2:36 AM
                          To: perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [PBML] Re: Random Number Generator


                          Know what?
                          I think I can do without this group.
                          I asked a simple question, and all I got back were condescending and
                          patronizing remarks. I thought this was a group for beginning Perl
                          programmers, but I see a few big fish living in this little pond.
                          Sorry for asking my question. Actually a large part of the class had
                          problems with it. We all thought it was a bit much to ask us to do in
                          the FIRST week of class.
                          Anyway, thanks for making a newcomer feel so "welcome".

                          Outtie,
                          Rick



                          --- In perl-beginner@y..., "Jenda Krynicky" <Jenda@K...> wrote:
                          > From: "RicK" <rik408@y...>
                          >
                          > > I already stated that I know how to generate a random number
                          between 1
                          > > and 10. It is essentially by multiplying the rand by 10:
                          > >
                          > > # print a random number between range of 0 and 10.
                          > > print("rand(), ", rand(10), "\n");
                          > >
                          > > I am not sure why everyone is being so coy about this.
                          > > Its not like I am trying to "cheat" on my homework or something.
                          > > I just thought it curious that we would be assigned a problem in
                          the
                          > > 2nd week of class where no reference on how to do it was in the
                          text,
                          > > and was not gone over in class. I was just wondering if anyone
                          had a
                          > > clue as to how this was done.
                          > >
                          > > rick
                          >
                          > Oh well ... may I ask you how old are you?
                          >
                          > This is not a programming problem, this is basic math!
                          >
                          > If you know X is between 0 and 10, how do you compute Y that would
                          be
                          > between 5 and 15?
                          >
                          > Or suppose you have a function f() that returns values in range 0
                          to
                          > 10, and you want to create a function g() whose chart would look
                          the
                          > same, except that the values would be between 5 and 15?
                          >
                          > THINK!
                          >
                          > Jenda
                          >
                          > =========== Jenda@K... == http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==========
                          > There is a reason for living. There must be. I've seen it somewhere.
                          > It's just that in the mess on my table ... and in my brain
                          > I can't find it.
                          > --- me



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                        • Sean Correia
                          ... I disagree. He didn t ask for a mentor, he asked a question. It s his problem if he wants to shortcut the learning process not our concern to babysit him
                          Message 12 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
                            > It may come across as condesending, but its not really..

                            I disagree. He didn't ask for a mentor, he asked a question. It's his problem if he wants to shortcut the learning process not our concern to babysit him and offer him friendly advice. I am sure there are other groups for that.

                            > imagine what your
                            > teacher would think if you handed him some really excellent code that
                            > answers the question perfectly.. I imagine he/she would
                            > rightly assume that
                            > you "had alot of help"

                            Imagine what some people's bosses would think if they found out their 'programmers' were asking questions about stuff they should already know.

                            It's bullshit that if someone asks a homework related question he gets no answer and hints, but if someone asks a job related question they get whole programs.

                            Just my .02

                            Cheers,
                            Sean
                          • Mike Dillinger
                            Original Message: From: Sean Correia Date: Tuesday October 01 2002 01:56PM PT SC Imagine what some people s bosses would think
                            Message 13 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
                              Original Message:
                              From: Sean Correia <perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com>
                              Date: Tuesday October 01 2002 01:56PM PT

                              SC> Imagine what some people's bosses would think if they found out their
                              SC> 'programmers' were asking questions about stuff they should already
                              SC> know.

                              SC> It's bullshit that if someone asks a homework related question he gets
                              SC> no answer and hints, but if someone asks a job related question they
                              SC> get whole programs.

                              I would have to agree. It's not the group's role to play God. It's a PERL
                              help list, so let's help.

                              Wherever you go, people are going to succeed and move up the ladder by
                              cheating. So you maybe able to stop it here, but the person will find help
                              elsewhere. You're basically just delaying the inevitable. BTW - I'm
                              saying anyone does this, I'm just saying it's difficult to prevent
                              cheating, and especially over e-mail.

                              I would suggest first, get the person on the right thought process, without
                              necessarily giving out code. If they come back for more help, then help
                              them out with specific code.

                              It's certainly not our job to chose who/how/when we help. The help should
                              be unbiased.

                              -MikeD
                            • jake@thegoop.com
                              I completely agree Jenda. You need to not look only for a straight answer, but instead take the hints, and try to figure out what it means and put them
                              Message 14 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
                                I completely agree Jenda. You need to not look only for a straight answer,
                                but instead take the hints, and try to figure out what it means and put
                                them together with what you already know. Not every program you need will
                                already have the code written in a book, on a website, or taught in
                                class. What WILL be there is techniques to use different things with the
                                code, and it will be up to you to put those together and make the program
                                you need.
                                Any way, my question: Rick, do you know how to add two numbers together in
                                Perl?


                                At 12:16 PM 10/1/2002, you wrote:
                                >From: "RicK" <rik408@...>
                                >
                                > > Know what?
                                > > I think I can do without this group.
                                > > I asked a simple question, and all I got back were condescending and
                                > > patronizing remarks. I thought this was a group for beginning Perl
                                > > programmers, but I see a few big fish living in this little pond.
                                > > Sorry for asking my question. Actually a large part of the class had
                                > > problems with it. We all thought it was a bit much to ask us to do in
                                > > the FIRST week of class. Anyway, thanks for making a newcomer feel so
                                > > "welcome".
                                > >
                                > > Outtie,
                                > > Rick
                                >I'm sorry if you feel offended.
                                >
                                >I really could not believe someone could have problems with this if
                                >he tried.
                                >
                                >If you want to be angry on someone, be angry at your math teacher.
                                >He/She aparently did not do his/her job well.
                                >
                                >In this case instead of telling you to add 5 to the rand(10), we
                                >tried to give you hints. Instead of giving you a fish we all tried to
                                >force you to learn to fish.
                                >
                                >Programming is NOT writing code, programming is solving problems!
                                >You can't expect to find the solution to each and every of your
                                >problems in a book or be taught in lessons. YOU are the one who is
                                >supposed to find solutions. Writing the code is the easy part,
                                >finding the solution, considering all posible cases and errors is the
                                >hard part. But that's what YOU are (will be) there for.
                                >
                                >Jenda
                                >P.S.: As for what this group is for. This group IS for beginning Perl
                                >programmers. It was made to aid in their LEARNING.
                                >It's up to you if you stay, but be prepared to get hints instead of
                                >solutions. And be prepared to look stupid from time to time. We all
                                >use(d) to.
                                >== Jenda@... == <http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz>http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz ==
                                >I wonder why the whole chemistry industry ignores
                                >computer bugs. We all would gladly pay big bucks
                                >for a functional insecticide.
                                >
                                >
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                              • jake@thegoop.com
                                ... i never was playing God, and i dont think anyone else was trying to. We were just tryin to give the person (Rick) a learning experience, so he (I m
                                Message 15 of 26 , Oct 1, 2002
                                  At 02:42 PM 10/1/2002, you wrote:
                                  >Original Message:
                                  >From: Sean Correia <perl-beginner@yahoogroups.com>
                                  >Date: Tuesday October 01 2002 01:56PM PT
                                  >
                                  >SC> Imagine what some people's bosses would think if they found out their
                                  >SC> 'programmers' were asking questions about stuff they should already
                                  >SC> know.
                                  >
                                  >SC> It's bullshit that if someone asks a homework related question he gets
                                  >SC> no answer and hints, but if someone asks a job related question they
                                  >SC> get whole programs.
                                  >
                                  >I would have to agree. It's not the group's role to play God. It's a PERL
                                  >help list, so let's help.

                                  i never was playing God, and i dont think anyone else was trying to. We
                                  were just tryin to give the person (Rick) a learning experience, so he (I'm
                                  assuming he) gets more self satisfaction from figuring it out more or less
                                  himself, rather than just bein told the code with no explanation or anythin
                                  really.


                                  >Wherever you go, people are going to succeed and move up the ladder by
                                  >cheating. So you maybe able to stop it here, but the person will find help
                                  >elsewhere. You're basically just delaying the inevitable. BTW - I'm
                                  >saying anyone does this, I'm just saying it's difficult to prevent
                                  >cheating, and especially over e-mail.
                                  >
                                  >I would suggest first, get the person on the right thought process, without
                                  >necessarily giving out code. If they come back for more help, then help
                                  >them out with specific code.

                                  Again, what i was doing, maybe a little slow tho...also what the others
                                  where doin.


                                  >It's certainly not our job to chose who/how/when we help. The help should
                                  >be unbiased.
                                  >
                                  >-MikeD
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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