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CA Glue for pen blanks ...

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  • William Lee
    I have read that some of you use and recommend CA or Super Glue to assemble pen blanks. Here is what WoodWrite has to say about CA glue: Never use a CA
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 1 5:12 AM
      I have read that some of you use and recommend CA or Super Glue to assemble pen blanks.
      Here is what WoodWrite has to say about CA glue:

      "Never use a CA (cyanoacrylate) type glue to cement the brass cylinders into your turning blanks. These are fast drying adhesives that have virtually no "sheer strength", and will hold the tube to the material as long as there is no vibration during turning. If there is vibration, the tube will separate from the material. Another potential problem with CA glue is that the tube will separate from the barrel if the finished product is dropped. The shock will cause the glue joint to sheer and separate."

      I have found this to be true. The wood will also wick the CA glue away from the tube leaving a weak bond. I have had several blanks separate from the brass tube on several occasions during the final pass on the lathe. Upon inspection I found a very weak bond between the tube and the wood. I now use Gorilla Glue (which is a polyurethane base glue) for all my wood pen blanks. For acrylic I use a two part epoxy.

      Does anyone use the WoodWrite lathe?
      I think there automated lathe is a bit overpriced but they seem like real nice people that have done a lot of research on pen making. Their web site is full of good information.
      http://www.woodwriteltd.com/tech.htm

      William Lee


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Patricia Lawson
      ... Never use a CA (cyanoacrylate) type glue to cement the brass cylinders into your turning blanks...
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 1 1:00 PM
        William wrote:
        >Here is what WoodWrite has to say about CA glue:
        "Never use a CA (cyanoacrylate) type glue to cement the brass cylinders
        into your turning blanks...<
        >Does anyone use the WoodWrite lathe? I think there automated lathe is a

        >bit overpriced but...<


        Oh boy William, you sure know how to pick some controversial topics! And
        now you've put two into one message!!! LOL. Now you'll get to hear the
        CA glue vs. Gorilla glue vs., vs., vs., arguments, not to mention the
        artisan/craftsman penmaker vs. the production penmaker discussion! Hang
        on for the ride...

        Here's my brief comment on WoodWrite's CA glue essay - BALDERDASH!
        (That's polite for BS!)

        I've been using Hot Stuff Super T CA glue for 5 years on all my pens and
        have NEVER, EVER had a single tube come loose at any time, or had anyone
        return a pen, or any other kind of failure with it. I love that
        eye-stinging, skin-gluing wonderful stuff! And I think that the
        WoodWrite staff is just jealous because they could never get the hang of
        zipping that brass tube into the blank before it sets! Lol. If your CA
        glue is being "wicked" away by the wood, you're using CA glue that is
        too thin for the job - needs to be the syrupy kind - better yet the new
        flexible CA. Use it right and it's great stuff.

        Regarding automated lathes of any brand for pen making...well, I don't
        think I wannna touch that topic with a ten-foot pole - it's like Mount
        Etna in your Inbox! (:-)

        I enjoy your input William and hope you will take my replies for what
        they are - just one person's opinions and experiences in a group of
        hundreds of experienced, skilled and talented people.

        Pat L.
      • stevensnigel@thefreeinternet.co.uk
        Hi William, I was interested in your comments on the Woodwrite statement re CA adhesive with respect to wood pens. I ve only ever used Slo Zap by Pacer to
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 1 3:13 PM
          Hi William,

          I was interested in your comments on the Woodwrite statement re CA
          adhesive with respect to wood pens. I've only ever used "Slo Zap" by
          Pacer to fix the brass tube in the pen blank. After two years of
          making multiple pens on a daily basis I've had no problem. As Pat
          Lawson says, the water thin CA will wick into the wood and produce a
          weak bond.

          However, I will try the polyurethane based glue and look forward to
          the results. I am always ready to learn and "Never say Never"

          Regards,

          Nigel Stevens
          Wood Pens Direct
          http://www.woodpensdirect.com




          --- In penturners@e..., "William Lee" <n5wrx@h...> wrote:
          > I have read that some of you use and recommend CA or Super Glue to
          assemble pen blanks.
          > Here is what WoodWrite has to say about CA glue:
          >
          > "Never use a CA (cyanoacrylate) type glue to cement the brass
          cylinders into your turning blanks. These are fast drying adhesives
          that have virtually no "sheer strength", and will hold the tube to
          the material as long as there is no vibration during turning. If
          there is vibration, the tube will separate from the material. Another
          potential problem with CA glue is that the tube will separate from
          the barrel if the finished product is dropped. The shock will cause
          the glue joint to sheer and separate."
          >
          > I have found this to be true. The wood will also wick the CA glue
          away from the tube leaving a weak bond. I have had several blanks
          separate from the brass tube on several occasions during the final
          pass on the lathe. Upon inspection I found a very weak bond between
          the tube and the wood. I now use Gorilla Glue (which is a
          polyurethane base glue) for all my wood pen blanks. For acrylic I use
          a two part epoxy.
          >
          > Does anyone use the WoodWrite lathe?
          > I think there automated lathe is a bit overpriced but they seem
          like real nice people that have done a lot of research on pen making.
          Their web site is full of good information.
          > http://www.woodwriteltd.com/tech.htm
          >
          > William Lee
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jim Mitchell
          Nigel, I have made a LOT of pens and pencils using polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue to be exact) I have never had a problem no matter what type of wood I was
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 1 5:04 PM
            Nigel,

            I have made a LOT of pens and pencils using polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue
            to be exact) I have never had a problem no matter what type of wood I was
            using (Oily, dry, resinous, etc...) The 1 precaution I attribute my success
            to is the fact that I keep a pump spray bottle of water on my workbench, and
            just before I glue up the pen blanks I mist the inside of the bore in the
            wood and the outside of the tube. I then use a cotton swab to lightly coat
            the inside of the bore of the wood with glue and insert the tube.

            If your tube fits a little loosly you will want to clamp across the ends
            because sometimes the expanding glue will push the tube out of the wood. I
            simply cover the holes with a piece of paper and clamp. The set up glue is
            easy to get out of the bore with your pen reamer.

            ~Jim

            -----------------------------
            Hi William,

            I was interested in your comments on the Woodwrite statement re CA
            adhesive with respect to wood pens. I've only ever used "Slo Zap" by
            Pacer to fix the brass tube in the pen blank. After two years of
            making multiple pens on a daily basis I've had no problem. As Pat
            Lawson says, the water thin CA will wick into the wood and produce a
            weak bond.

            However, I will try the polyurethane based glue and look forward to
            the results. I am always ready to learn and "Never say Never"

            Regards,

            Nigel Stevens
            Wood Pens Direct
            http://www.woodpensdirect.com




            --- In penturners@e..., "William Lee" <n5wrx@h...> wrote:
            > I have read that some of you use and recommend CA or Super Glue to
            assemble pen blanks.
            > Here is what WoodWrite has to say about CA glue:
            >
            > "Never use a CA (cyanoacrylate) type glue to cement the brass
            cylinders into your turning blanks. These are fast drying adhesives
            that have virtually no "sheer strength", and will hold the tube to
            the material as long as there is no vibration during turning. If
            there is vibration, the tube will separate from the material. Another
            potential problem with CA glue is that the tube will separate from
            the barrel if the finished product is dropped. The shock will cause
            the glue joint to sheer and separate."
            >
            > I have found this to be true. The wood will also wick the CA glue
            away from the tube leaving a weak bond. I have had several blanks
            separate from the brass tube on several occasions during the final
            pass on the lathe. Upon inspection I found a very weak bond between
            the tube and the wood. I now use Gorilla Glue (which is a
            polyurethane base glue) for all my wood pen blanks. For acrylic I use
            a two part epoxy.
            >
            > Does anyone use the WoodWrite lathe?
            > I think there automated lathe is a bit overpriced but they seem
            like real nice people that have done a lot of research on pen making.
            Their web site is full of good information.
            > http://www.woodwriteltd.com/tech.htm
            >
            > William Lee
            >
            >
          • William Lee
            Thanks, Pat. Well ... I did not intend to start anything. I am new to this and was just making an observation. To be honest a pen tube of diamond wood let go
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 1 5:10 PM
              Thanks, Pat. Well ... I did not intend to start anything. I am new to this and was just making an observation. To be honest a pen tube of diamond wood let go again today .... and it was glued with Gorilla glue that set for 24 hrs ..... go figure..... Just about the time you think you have something figured out .... wham! I think it has something to do with trying to cut that diamond wood into a slimline pen.

              I just turned a slimline pen using a jade green Corian material and glued it to the tubes with a thicker super glue. I must use the "odorless" type of CA because if there is enough vapor to sting my eyes than I had better take some Benedrill if I want to breath for the rest of the evening. I used to build a lot of R/C airplanes and became sensitized to CA. It is much like an asthma attack. The "odorless" CA does not seen to have that effect on me .... yet. The pen looks real nice and I am impressed with the way Corian works and looks.

              I also make custom pool cues and do cue repairs. The same arguments about custom or production, art or utility are tossed about among cue aficionados so I can at least understand what you mean about that. I was just trying to get some input on possible future equipment. I have a nice Sherline lathe and have posted about how it is setup earlier. I also have a Sherline milling machine, a Porper Q-Lathe, and a Unique Cue repair lathe. All of this equipment can do some task at pen making as well as pool cues. After getting the skinny from other users I do not thing the Woodwrite lathe is suited to my style of "art". My next purchase most likely will be a small wood lathe like the Jet or the Carba-Tech so I can get my hands closer to the wood and create some nice shapes to the pens. I don't intend to sell them as a money making business but everyone who has seen the ones I have done so far wants to buy them! Problem is I like them so much I don't want to sell them. Did you have this dilemma when you first started turning wood and making pens?

              William Lee
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Patricia Lawson
              To: penturners@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 3:00 PM
              Subject: RE: [penturners] CA Glue for pen blanks ...


              William wrote:
              >Here is what WoodWrite has to say about CA glue:
              "Never use a CA (cyanoacrylate) type glue to cement the brass cylinders
              into your turning blanks...<
              >Does anyone use the WoodWrite lathe? I think there automated lathe is a

              >bit overpriced but...<


              Oh boy William, you sure know how to pick some controversial topics! And
              now you've put two into one message!!! LOL. Now you'll get to hear the
              CA glue vs. Gorilla glue vs., vs., vs., arguments, not to mention the
              artisan/craftsman penmaker vs. the production penmaker discussion! Hang
              on for the ride...

              Here's my brief comment on WoodWrite's CA glue essay - BALDERDASH!
              (That's polite for BS!)

              I've been using Hot Stuff Super T CA glue for 5 years on all my pens and
              have NEVER, EVER had a single tube come loose at any time, or had anyone
              return a pen, or any other kind of failure with it. I love that
              eye-stinging, skin-gluing wonderful stuff! And I think that the
              WoodWrite staff is just jealous because they could never get the hang of
              zipping that brass tube into the blank before it sets! Lol. If your CA
              glue is being "wicked" away by the wood, you're using CA glue that is
              too thin for the job - needs to be the syrupy kind - better yet the new
              flexible CA. Use it right and it's great stuff.

              Regarding automated lathes of any brand for pen making...well, I don't
              think I wannna touch that topic with a ten-foot pole - it's like Mount
              Etna in your Inbox! (:-)

              I enjoy your input William and hope you will take my replies for what
              they are - just one person's opinions and experiences in a group of
              hundreds of experienced, skilled and talented people.

              Pat L.


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Patricia Lawson
              ... Problem is I like them so much I don t want to sell them. Did you have this dilemma when you first started turning wood and making pens?...
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 1 6:57 PM
                William wrote:

                >...everyone who has seen the ones I have done so far wants to buy them!
                Problem is I like them so much I don't want to sell them. Did you have
                this dilemma when you first started turning wood and making pens?...<

                HAhahaha, surely you jest William! Ofcourse I had that dilemma and still
                do! (In fact I still have the first three pens that I made.) I really
                think that if you don't fall in love with your first pens, (and each one
                after that too), you probably aren't going to be very passionate about
                penmaking or very interested in it, and therefore will probably not be
                very good at it. If you don't think that what you've made is worth
                keeping, probably no one else will think it's worth having either.

                I LOVE the kind of pride you show in your pens! To me it means you have
                the potential to be a fine penmaker. I believe that when you feel great
                pride and satisfaction in your work, it makes you want to do more, learn
                more, and make each one better than the last one. If you ever start
                whipping out pens without caring how they look or whether or not you
                like them, or if you ever start being actually glad to part with your
                pens, I think that's the time to quit making them.

                Pat L.




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • gen11@bellatlantic.net
                ... assemble pen blanks. ... Hello William, I ve used CA glue exclusively. I have only had 2 barrels slip on me, after the pen was made. Used glue that was
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 28 3:29 AM
                  --- In penturners@y..., "William Lee" <n5wrx@h...> wrote:
                  > I have read that some of you use and recommend CA or Super Glue to
                  assemble pen blanks.
                  > Here is what WoodWrite has to say about CA glue:
                  >


                  Hello William,

                  I've used CA glue exclusively. I have only had 2 barrels slip on me,
                  after the pen was made. Used glue that was too old, I think.

                  On your pens, did you sand the barrels before applying the glue?
                  Need to remove oxidation and create a rough surface that the glue can
                  bond to. Sand in the direction of the barell so that the shear
                  stress on the lathe while turning will be perpendicular to the
                  bonding site (the sandpaper scrathes) on the barell. Never had one
                  slip while on the lathe. In fact, once or twice the wood itself has
                  failed, and I had to clean off the barell while on the lathe with a
                  parting tool to reclaim the barrel.

                  And as others have mentioned, use thickend CA. Water thin is used
                  for sealing cracks, punky wood or even finishing! But not for gluing
                  the barrels in place.

                  You should do fine.

                  Best Regards,

                  John Showler in NJ
                  www.jeswoodcrafting.com
                • n5wrx@home.com
                  Thanks John, for the information. I have been learning and expanding my skills with CA glues the past few weeks. I must use the orderless type of CA and it is
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 28 5:16 AM
                    Thanks John, for the information.
                    I have been learning and expanding my skills with CA glues the past
                    few weeks. I must use the orderless type of CA and it is a bit thicker
                    than normal. I have noticed that sometimes while sanding a CA finish
                    the CA will roll up and leave a streak on the surface that is hard to
                    remove. I think it has to do with rotational speed and heat.

                    William Lee




                    > Hello William,
                    >
                    > I've used CA glue exclusively. I have only had 2 barrels slip on
                    me,
                    > after the pen was made. Used glue that was too old, I think.
                    >
                    > On your pens, did you sand the barrels before applying the glue?
                    > Need to remove oxidation and create a rough surface that the glue
                    can
                    > bond to. Sand in the direction of the barell so that the shear
                    > stress on the lathe while turning will be perpendicular to the
                    > bonding site (the sandpaper scrathes) on the barell. Never had one
                    > slip while on the lathe. In fact, once or twice the wood itself has
                    > failed, and I had to clean off the barell while on the lathe with a
                    > parting tool to reclaim the barrel.
                    >
                    > And as others have mentioned, use thickend CA. Water thin is used
                    > for sealing cracks, punky wood or even finishing! But not for
                    gluing
                    > the barrels in place.
                    >
                    > You should do fine.
                    >
                    > Best Regards,
                    >
                    > John Showler in NJ
                    > www.jeswoodcrafting.com
                  • gen11@bellatlantic.net
                    I forgot one other thing, William, Most of the glue you put on the tube gets pushed out when it is inserted into the blank. This is ok assuming the hole in
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 28 5:30 AM
                      I forgot one other thing, William,

                      Most of the glue you put on the tube gets pushed out when it is
                      inserted into the blank. This is ok assuming the hole in the blank
                      is just a little larger than the blank. If it is too tight, then too
                      much of the glue gets squeezed out. Sometimes I use an "O" bit where
                      an 8mm is called for, thinking that it is a little tighter.
                      Sometimes too tight! The thick glue is "gap filling" so there needs
                      to be a gap :)

                      Regards,

                      John Showler



                      --- In penturners@y..., n5wrx@h... wrote:
                      > Thanks John, for the information.
                      > I have been learning and expanding my skills with CA glues the past
                      > few weeks. I must use the orderless type of CA and it is a bit
                      thicker
                      > than normal. I have noticed that sometimes while sanding a CA
                      finish
                      > the CA will roll up and leave a streak on the surface that is hard
                      to
                      > remove. I think it has to do with rotational speed and heat.
                      >
                      > William Lee
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > > Hello William,
                      > >
                      > > I've used CA glue exclusively. I have only had 2 barrels slip on
                      > me,
                      > > after the pen was made. Used glue that was too old, I think.
                      > >
                      > > On your pens, did you sand the barrels before applying the glue?
                      > > Need to remove oxidation and create a rough surface that the glue
                      > can
                      > > bond to. Sand in the direction of the barell so that the shear
                      > > stress on the lathe while turning will be perpendicular to the
                      > > bonding site (the sandpaper scrathes) on the barell. Never had
                      one
                      > > slip while on the lathe. In fact, once or twice the wood itself
                      has
                      > > failed, and I had to clean off the barell while on the lathe with
                      a
                      > > parting tool to reclaim the barrel.
                      > >
                      > > And as others have mentioned, use thickend CA. Water thin is
                      used
                      > > for sealing cracks, punky wood or even finishing! But not for
                      > gluing
                      > > the barrels in place.
                      > >
                      > > You should do fine.
                      > >
                      > > Best Regards,
                      > >
                      > > John Showler in NJ
                      > > www.jeswoodcrafting.com
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