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Set-up week

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  • Michael Baron
    I can do some 4 hour blocks during setup week. I m most likely going to be camped on E06 again. --Goimir Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 17, 2011
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      I can do some 4 hour blocks during setup week. I'm most likely going to be camped on E06 again.

      --Goimir
      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
    • Daniel Adler
      Just some notes to everybody regarding some things from prior years: I ve usually been on site earlier than most in previous years, since I m setting up my
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 17, 2011
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        Just some notes to everybody regarding some things from prior years: 

        I've usually been on site earlier than most in previous years, since I'm setting up my merchant booth, though I'm not there for the land grab itself, I do arrive late Saturday afternoon.  I'm usually the person who's gone by and made sure tables and chairs were delivered to the tent, and then I set them up when they are delivered, see if any of them are in need of repair/replacement, and go talk to those in charge if that is needed.  Tables and chairs are (historically) not usually delivered till Tuesday or Wednesday, but it bears checking.

        Some years I've picked up teachers' tokens for everybody when I checked in at A&S, but that hasn't been needed since we've moved the Period Games Tent to the A&S quad.  Anyone who's teaching, make sure to check in as a teacher at the A&S area after you are on site and settled (and get your token, they always look neat!), or your classes may be auto-canceled on you.

        I doubt I'll have time to take (m)any blocks of time watching the tent this year, I'll be shorter on staff.  I'll put in a class or two I guess.  Any class requests?

        Anyone want to do a tourney this year?

        Did the tent sign go home with anyone last year, go into Istvan's household storage, or go to A&S limbo storage like last year?  Did it need repair/another coat of clear epoxy?  Lettering not faded out? Etc.

        We have budget?  What to spend it on?  (erm, other than buying some games? :+)...)   Any supplies need replacing? (Hand cleaner, markers, game piece/stones, butcher paper, new totes?).  This year, I finally remembered - do we have electric in there?  If so, what about (dare I say it?) maybe a cheap quiet electric box fan we can disguise, and an extension cord?

        Try to get a water station near us?

        Galen

        On Apr 17, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Michael Baron wrote:

         

        I can do some 4 hour blocks during setup week. I'm most likely going to be camped on E06 again.

        --Goimir


        Daniel Adler

        Game Gnight - Games for all Ages

        20 Quaker Ave.

        Cornwall, NY  12518

        (845) 534-8187


      • James McAdams
        ... The tent sign was still there Sunday afternoon, so I think we have to hope it s in A&S storage. I don t recall it being particularly worn/faded. ... I
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 17, 2011
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          On 4/17/2011 11:52 PM, Daniel Adler wrote:
          > Did the tent sign go home with anyone last year, go into Istvan's
          > household storage, or go to A&S limbo storage like last year? Did it
          > need repair/another coat of clear epoxy? Lettering not faded out? Etc.

          The tent sign was still there Sunday afternoon, so I think we have to
          hope it's in A&S storage. I don't recall it being particularly worn/faded.

          > Anyone want to do a tourney this year?

          I like the idea but keep getting hung up on what game/games, the
          logistics to make it accessable, and making it something different from
          a mundane chess (or whatever) tournament. My favorite idea so far is a
          'random variant' - where each pair of players is given a random chess
          variation (chatranj, byzantine, 4x16 board, etc.).
          Any suggestions?

          Xavier
        • James McAdams
          ... Does anyone know when we d have to decide on whether or not to hold a tournament? Xavier
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 29, 2011
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            On 4/17/2011 11:52 PM, Daniel Adler wrote:
             Anyone want to do a tourney this year?

                Does anyone know when we'd have to decide on whether or not to hold a tournament? 

            Xavier

          • Pat Smith
            If we want the tournament listed in the Pennsic booklet, the deadline is officially May 1st, but in actual fact I can probably get it in up to about May 5th,
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 29, 2011
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              If we want the tournament listed in the Pennsic booklet, the deadline is officially May 1st, but in actual fact I can probably get it in up to about May 5th, possibly slightly later.  If we don't care about having it in the booklet, and just depend on advertising it at Pennsic we can wait until we get to Cooper's Lake to decide, at the cost of people who might have come not hearing of it in time.

              Brusten

              On 4/29/2011 10:44 PM, James McAdams wrote:
               

              On 4/17/2011 11:52 PM, Daniel Adler wrote:

                Anyone want to do a tourney this year?

                  Does anyone know when we'd have to decide on whether or not to hold a tournament? 

              Xavier

          • James McAdams
            ... OK - how about this: Caïssa s Challenge - on Wednesday, the 10th of August, we invite all those who enjoy chess in it s many forms to gather at the Games
            Message 6 of 9 , May 1, 2011
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              On 4/30/2011 1:44 AM, Pat Smith wrote:
              If we want the tournament listed in the Pennsic booklet, the deadline is officially May 1st, but in actual fact I can probably get it in up to about May 5th, possibly slightly later.

              OK - how about this:

              "Caïssa's Challenge - on Wednesday, the 10th of August, we invite all those who enjoy chess in it's many forms to gather at the Games tent to test your skill against one another.  There will be a variety of chess games to play, and the one who has bested the most opponents by sunset will be awarded a chess set made in a persian style."
              ---------------------

              My plan - to have multiple variations on 'standard' chess (chatranj, byzantine, oblong, short assize, dice, courier, xiangqi), and to have players select one at random and face off.  I don't want a 'tree-format' tournament (there's enough of those outside of Pennsic).
              Scoring will be based on how many players you beat, not how many games you win.  If two players face each other again, I'll consider it a 'best-of-three' to figure the "match score".
              Yes - I'll man the tent until sunset that day. 

              Any comments/criticisms?

              Xavier


            • Daniel Adler
              That is Midnight Madness day, btw.....you might want to pick a different night, since it will be kinda busy that night and people may want to go shopping. I d
              Message 7 of 9 , May 1, 2011
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                That is Midnight Madness day, btw.....you might want to pick a different night, since it will be kinda busy that night and people may want to go shopping.

                I'd suggest that if two players face each other again, it be required that they play a different variant than they played before. I also suggest requiring time limits (or even minimums) for games, and adjudicate as needed at end of time limit if the game is not over.

                You're basically saying it's a huge round robin where everyone plays everyone else each variant of chess you have available, and the one who plays and wins the most of those games in the total time frame of tourney start to sunset, wins the tourney.  You haven't suggested any pairing criteria.  What's to stop the same two players from playing each other over and over again quickly, with the better player always winning?  Maybe, at least require that the next game you play in the tourney, be with someone other than the last person you played in the tourney, as well as a different  variant if this is a repeat of the same opponent.  Anyone run bear pit weapons tourneys?  It's kinda the same thing.

                In the unlikely but possible case of a tie at sunset, have a tie breaker in mind.  The modern tie break point system is what I recommend, and if still tied, speed chess with chess clock.  Modern tie break is to add to the score of each tied player, the final score of each player defeated, and half the score of each player tied.  If you played them multiple times, add multiple times as needed.  Then compare final totals of the tied players again.

                Any class separation?  Advanced, beginner, intermediate?  Age categories of adult, teen, youth (18+, 13-17, under 13)?

                Any other prizes?  Make sure those who donate such, are given plenty of credit.

                Note that the proprietors of the Pennsic coffeeshop Your Inner Vagabond considered a chess tourney a couple years ago held in the evenings at their shop, and had a similar prize in hand for the winner.  Not sure what happened there though - the tourney didn't officially happen that year AFAIK.  There were certain issues with the evening hours, as well as with the hookah smoking that went on there.  If we talk with them about this, keep that in mind.

                Advertise tourney in the Pennsic book, daily in the onsite newspaper, flyers and postings, heralded and cried around?  Announce winner in the newspaper.  Maybe present the winner in court in home kingdom's court if that can be arranged.

                I think I arranged a Swiss System pairing scheme for the tourney I did several years ago, instead of round robin, bear pit or elimination.

                Galen

                On May 1, 2011, at 2:51 PM, James McAdams wrote:

                 

                On 4/30/2011 1:44 AM, Pat Smith wrote:

                If we want the tournament listed in the Pennsic booklet, the deadline is officially May 1st, but in actual fact I can probably get it in up to about May 5th, possibly slightly later.

                OK - how about this:

                "Caïssa's Challenge - on Wednesday, the 10th of August, we invite all those who enjoy chess in it's many forms to gather at the Games tent to test your skill against one another.  There will be a variety of chess games to play, and the one who has bested the most opponents by sunset will be awarded a chess set made in a persian style."
                ---------------------

                My plan - to have multiple variations on 'standard' chess (chatranj, byzantine, oblong, short assize, dice, courier, xiangqi), and to have players select one at random and face off.  I don't want a 'tree-format' tournament (there's enough of those outside of Pennsic).
                Scoring will be based on how many players you beat, not how many games you win.  If two players face each other again, I'll consider it a 'best-of-three' to figure the "match score".
                Yes - I'll man the tent until sunset that day. 

                Any comments/criticisms?

                Xavier



                Daniel Adler

                Game Gnight - Games for all Ages

                20 Quaker Ave.

                Cornwall, NY  12518

                (845) 534-8187


              • James McAdams
                ... It s also a day with minimal war points, so potentially more opportunity for people to engage. I didn t think Midnight Madness really got started until
                Message 8 of 9 , May 1, 2011
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                  On 5/1/2011 10:13 PM, Daniel Adler wrote:
                    That is Midnight Madness day, btw.....you might want to pick a different night, since it will be kinda busy that night and people may want to go shopping.
                      It's also a day with minimal war points, so potentially more opportunity for people to engage.  I didn't think Midnight Madness really got started until after sundown, so that's when I set the end for it.

                  I'd suggest that if two players face each other again, it be required that they play a different variant than they played before. I also suggest requiring time limits (or even minimums) for games, and adjudicate as needed at end of time limit if the game is not over.
                      I'd encourage them to play a different variant, but not require it.  (If it's something neither have played before, I don't object to them having a re-match with a little familiarity).  Likewise, I want to avoid time limits and adjudication - not the least of which because I'm not skilled enough to be comfortable in that role.

                  You're basically saying it's a huge round robin where everyone plays everyone else each variant of chess you have available, and the one who plays and wins the most of those games in the total time frame of tourney start to sunset, wins the tourney.
                      No.  I'm trying to avoid everyone having to show up at the same time and dedicating an entire day to this.  If someone wants to spend all day playing - that's great.  If they just want to stop by for a couple of games, that's good too. 
                      I want to avoid time limits and mass start, just because that's so prevalent outside the SCA, and it feels too structured for something to do on vacation.  If anyone knows of such a games tournament in period, I'd love to hear of it. 
                      What I really have in mind isn't a tournament as such, as inviting everyone to play and keeping track of the games during the course of the day to determine who played the best overall.  That means that it will be possible for those who score the best to never face each other, or even be in the tent together at the same time.

                   You haven't suggested any pairing criteria.  What's to stop the same two players from playing each other over and over again quickly, with the better player always winning?
                      They're more than welcome to play each other all day.  And at the end of the day, the better player has beaten ONE player, and earned one point.  I specifically wanted to avoid the 10-year-old racking up endless points at his little brother's expense.
                  If two players face each other repeatedly, the scores will combine for a 'match point'.  So if you and I played 5 games, and you won 3 of them, you'd take the one 'match point' from our pairing.  My current thought is to assign half-points if there's an even split in the match score.

                  In the unlikely but possible case of a tie at sunset, have a tie breaker in mind.  The modern tie break point system is what I recommend, and if still tied, speed chess with chess clock.  Modern tie break is to add to the score of each tied player, the final score of each player defeated, and half the score of each player tied.  If you played them multiple times, add multiple times as needed.  Then compare final totals of the tied players again.
                      I didn't know of that tie-breaker procedure, but I like it. 

                  Any class separation?  Advanced, beginner, intermediate?  Age categories of adult, teen, youth (18+, 13-17, under 13)?
                  Any other prizes?  Make sure those who donate such, are given plenty of credit.
                      I hadn't planned any separation or categories.  I hadn't thought of asking for prize donations, but certainly wouldn't turn them down (and would be sure to thank the donors publicly).

                  Advertise tourney in the Pennsic book, daily in the onsite newspaper, flyers and postings, heralded and cried around?  Announce winner in the newspaper.  Maybe present the winner in court in home kingdom's court if that can be arranged.
                      I hadn't heard of the Vagabond's tournament, I would have attended if I had.  As for advertising, if it goes through I'd like to see a blurb in the Pennsic book (if possible), and will advertise in the PI. 

                  I think I arranged a Swiss System pairing scheme for the tourney I did several years ago, instead of round robin, bear pit or elimination.
                      Again - I didn't know you had run a tourney before.  How many players competed, and how was it received?

                  Xavier
                         


                • Daniel Adler
                  ... It varies depending on the merchant. For example, I usually am open in the morning, closed during the afternoon, and reopen again after dinner on Midnight
                  Message 9 of 9 , May 2, 2011
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                    On May 2, 2011, at 2:35 AM, James McAdams wrote:

                     

                    On 5/1/2011 10:13 PM, Daniel Adler wrote:

                      That is Midnight Madness day, btw.....you might want to pick a different night, since it will be kinda busy that night and people may want to go shopping.
                        It's also a day with minimal war points, so potentially more opportunity for people to engage.  I didn't think Midnight Madness really got started until after sundown, so that's when I set the end for it.

                    It varies depending on the merchant.  For example, I usually am open in the morning, closed during the afternoon, and reopen again after dinner on Midnight Madness day.  There's a minimum 8 hrs. a day merchants must be open.  The other days I stay open all the time, close for dinner and reopen and close when customers stop coming in at night.

                    I'd suggest that if two players face each other again, it be required that they play a different variant than they played before. I also suggest requiring time limits (or even minimums) for games, and adjudicate as needed at end of time limit if the game is not over.
                        I'd encourage them to play a different variant, but not require it.  (If it's something neither have played before, I don't object to them having a re-match with a little familiarity).  Likewise, I want to avoid time limits and adjudication - not the least of which because I'm not skilled enough to be comfortable in that role.

                    I am not a Tournament Director in the real world either, tho I was once very familiar with what was needed by the USCF.  I haven't played chess seriously in 30+ years.  There are books and online aids and such for modern TD's  The problem is you need familiarity with all the medieval variants as well, to adjudicate properly, I agree.  Someone on this list or the Games Guild list was a modern world chess TD, IIRC.  Not sure of whom, search the message history?  Maybe that person will be able to be there?

                        No.  I'm trying to avoid everyone having to show up at the same time and dedicating an entire day to this.  If someone wants to spend all day playing - that's great.  If they just want to stop by for a couple of games, that's good too. 
                        I want to avoid time limits and mass start, just because that's so prevalent outside the SCA, and it feels too structured for something to do on vacation.  If anyone knows of such a games tournament in period, I'd love to hear of it. 

                    I'd hazard a guess that the "games tournament" as we know it, is really out of the SCA period, as far as international tourneys goes.  For chess, it was not until the mid 19th C.  For Backgammon, international tourneys didn't happen until the 20th C.  For Go, I'm unsure.  However, looking at a smaller area than the international arena.....For Go, it was just outside the SCA period (4 Go schools established by Sansa at start of Edo period (1603-1868) and heads of the schools played each other in front of royalty for the honor of the school.  I'd call that a tourney.  :+)  (Info as per website of International Go Federation - https://intergofed.org/history/gohistory.htm)  More research needed re: smaller local tourneys in Europe for other games.

                    In the unlikely but possible case of a tie at sunset, have a tie breaker in mind.  The modern tie break point system is what I recommend, and if still tied, speed chess with chess clock.  Modern tie break is to add to the score of each tied player, the final score of each player defeated, and half the score of each player tied.  If you played them multiple times, add multiple times as needed.  Then compare final totals of the tied players again.
                        I didn't know of that tie-breaker procedure, but I like it. 

                    As do I.  It shows which player did better against the field, by calculating who did better against better opposition overall.  This was de rigeur 30 years ago when I was playing in modern world chess tourneys seriously - there could easily be more recent systems of tie breaks developed too.  The calculations are faster than having another regular game as a tie-breaker (but you need good records, and withdrawals from the tourney are a PITA).  Speed chess is a different game than non-speed chess, with a slightly different skill set - using it for a tie breaker for a tourney of longer games, is not ideal, but it is the option taken if the break point method described above doesn't produce a clear leader on tie breaks.  Which often happens in small round robins such as "Quads" (a round robin of four similarly-rated players; the entire playing field is grouped into quads, and each such mini-tourney is separate from all others.  There is usually a minor prize for the winner of each quad, like a small trophy.  They are a ratings vehicle to get players rated (it required 20 rated games to have a rating) and give a TD some experience directing and are often held monthly in an area.

                    Any class separation?  Advanced, beginner, intermediate?  Age categories of adult, teen, youth (18+, 13-17, under 13)?
                    Any other prizes?  Make sure those who donate such, are given plenty of credit.
                        I hadn't planned any separation or categories.  I hadn't thought of asking for prize donations, but certainly wouldn't turn them down (and would be sure to thank the donors publicly).

                    I can ask on the SCA Merchant list group for you, and you can do it in person as well at Pennsic.  I can donate something(s) as prize support also.  It doesn't HAVE to be a game prize.  I think I got some pretty funky prizes donated for my tourney - I remember some pewter pins from Fettered Cock Pewter; they were ones that looked like chess pieces, not the ones they have that look like.....er......flying genitalia.  

                        I hadn't heard of the Vagabond's tournament, I would have attended if I had. 

                    I don't think it actually went off at all - you'd have to contact Andrew at YIV to confirm.  He originally asked us back in 2006 or so, I think - he wanted us to come in after the Period Gaming Tent closed and do the tourney at his coffeehouse, and offered a prize (of an expensive Middle-Eastern chess set) similar to the one you mentioned earlier.  There were issues that couldn't be resolved at the time, re: youths out late and unescorted by parents/guardians and in the shop, other patrons smoking hookahs there (with regular tobacco, mind you, but secondhand smoke inhalation was still a problem).  

                    As for advertising, if it goes through I'd like to see a blurb in the Pennsic book (if possible), and will advertise in the PI. 

                    Earlier the better, but details were hard to be finalized by the book deadline.

                    I think I arranged a Swiss System pairing scheme for the tourney I did several years ago, instead of round robin, bear pit or elimination.
                        Again - I didn't know you had run a tourney before.  How many players competed, and how was it received?

                    Xavier
                           
                    I've done several gaming tourneys over the years, at one-day local events as well as at Pennsic.  The more recent one-day tourneys at local large RP events were a Swiss system (when there were a dozen players and we had 6 hours), and a double round robin (when we had 4 players - each player played each other player twice).  (I'm not a fan of elimination tourneys, btw).  Each pair of players agreed on the game to play each encounter.  Tourney had to be finished before Court started, so time was an issue there.  Swiss system, by the way, arranges random pairings each round amongst players with similar scores, who have not played each other previously.  It was the fastest and fairest way I knew at the time, to have a tourney give a clear winner as quickly as possible.  Among 12 players, I had a clear leader in three rounds, and he kept the lead in the fourth and final round.  I had to modify pairing procedure, since I think it relied upon the ratings of players to order a player list.  Since we had no ratings, I just used the order they signed up for the tourney for the initial list, and the order I received the posted results for each round's new pairing list.

                    At the one at Pennsic a couple years ago, I asked Gaming Tent staff members to "keep an eye on" tourney games and note results of those games in the tent log when I wasn't there - which was most of the time.  It was a Byzantine Chess tourney, I think - I taught a class in Byzantine chess before the tourney.  The tourney went on over several days, since we had plenty of time.  IIRC, it was a single round robin, and finished on Thursday or Friday of War Week.  No class sections or age groups.  We had a mix of ages and genders.  A good time was had by all, I think.  About a dozen players entered over the several days, but I think only two of the players played all their scheduled games - most had to leave Pennsic before the tourney ended.  Would have been funny if the winner won in absentia, having already left site.....but in the end the last game played indicated the tourney winner.  The one held the previous year at Pennsic, it was a one-day event, a few less entrants, and players agreed on the game to play each round.  Both Pennsic tourneys were not advertised in the Pennsic book, tho I think I got it in the daily paper.

                    Galen

                    Daniel Adler

                    Game Gnight - Games for all Ages

                    20 Quaker Ave.

                    Cornwall, NY  12518

                    (845) 534-8187


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