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Design ideas for desktop GUI interface

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  • jesk50@aol.com
    What should the desktop GUI (graphical user interface) look like? Similar to Windows Explorer, or like the Palm Desktop application? Or, as I did with
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 1, 2001
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      What should the desktop GUI (graphical user interface) look like? Similar to
      Windows Explorer, or like the Palm Desktop application? Or, as I did with
      peditDesk, like the handheld itself?

      This is not specifically a pDesk (or MemoCircus) question. Your input would
      help anyone working on a desktop interface for pedit memos.

      Jerry
    • The White Crow
      ... There s pros and cons with each. I think I d prefer the handheld look myself, which has some coolness factor involved. The Palm Desktop interface has some
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 1, 2001
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        At 08:12 AM 3/1/2001 -0500, you wrote:
        >What should the desktop GUI (graphical user interface) look like? Similar to
        >Windows Explorer, or like the Palm Desktop application? Or, as I did with
        >peditDesk, like the handheld itself?

        There's pros and cons with each. I think I'd prefer the handheld look
        myself, which has some coolness factor involved. The Palm Desktop interface
        has some benefits, as this makes it more like being part of the standard
        apps...(how hard is it to make a plug-in for the desktop app, anyway? I
        have a couple of conduits that at least put a button in to access them).

        Jennifer
        --
        The White Crow
        Author of The Deryni Roleplaying Game
        Coming in November 2001 from Grey Ghost Press
        My RPG pages: http://www.io.com/~whytcrow/
        Peditress since 7/5/00
      • Wayne.Hildebrandt@nau.edu
        Jerry, One of the so called advantages of the Windows environment was the common user interface for several programs. This allows the user to be instantly
        Message 3 of 17 , Mar 1, 2001
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          Jerry,

          One of the so called "advantages" of the Windows environment was the
          common user interface for several programs. This allows the user to
          be instantly familiar with the fundamentals of navagating around a
          program.

          I would think your "user interface" should be the standard of
          the platform you are working on. While a Palm looking interface is
          cute .. when I am using a PC I want to have a common set of controls
          for the several programs I may be running simultaneously. I would
          expect all Palm programs to sort of the same on the Palm and all PC
          programs to be similar on the PC, as well as the MAC.

          Just a thought .....

          Wayne
        • jesk50@aol.com
          In a message dated 3/1/01 2:51:36 PM Central Standard Time, ... Wayne, Yep. Now, as I work on the Windows variation in a 32 bit language (Windows oriented)
          Message 4 of 17 , Mar 1, 2001
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            In a message dated 3/1/01 2:51:36 PM Central Standard Time,
            Wayne.Hildebrandt@... writes:

            > I would think your "user interface" should be the standard of
            > the platform you are working on. While a Palm looking interface is
            > cute .. when I am using a PC I want to have a common set of controls
            > for the several programs I may be running simultaneously. I would
            > expect all Palm programs to sort of the same on the Palm and all PC
            > programs to be similar on the PC, as well as the MAC.
            >
            > Just a thought .....

            Wayne,
            Yep. Now, as I work on the Windows variation in a 32 bit language (Windows
            oriented) instead of my trusty old 16bit compiler, I have access to a
            standard toolbox containing menus, list boxes, scroll bars etc. It will
            definitely look like a Windows application. But what kind of Windows app
            layout would pedit users like to see. Maybe Explorer-ish with tree-views of
            categories on one side and memos on the right? Or like MS-Outlook? Or
            Internet-like with links, etc.

            Then again, I own a few very creative programs (such as Snappy from Play
            Inc.) which try to break from the strictly utilitarian appearance of
            Microsoft apps in general. I'm saying I can do all kinds of really creative
            things myself --- yet. So I'm just thinking and brainstorming with the pedit
            users.

            peditDesk is utilitarian with a slightly cute twist.

            Thanks for the input, Wayne.

            Jerry
          • Wayne.Hildebrandt@nau.edu
            Humm .. I too have a couple of creative programs and I will admit that the sudden change in interface (I too have Snappy and I even find the newer Windows
            Message 5 of 17 , Mar 1, 2001
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              Humm .. I too have a couple of "creative programs" and I will admit
              that the sudden change in interface (I too have Snappy and I even find
              the newer Windows Media Player distracting - and to be honest the
              newer Palm Desktop Themes to be off too!) keeps me from what I am
              focusing on. In most cases with the Palm, I am moving WORDS and so
              feel an interface should be what ever fascilitates that task. A
              screen with "space" to easily review text, spot errors and see what
              the files are. I sort of have gotten used to Info Select, which
              lists the data and then the text on the other side of the screen.
              Even Eudora has that approach. To me the interface should facilitate
              the main task and be "out of the way". I sort of like the tree-views
              of categories on one side and memos on the right type of thing.

              The peditDesk isn't too bad as a start. But in the windows
              environment (for example), one would like to take advantage of the
              space, the font options, and the ability to get to all your commands
              from keystroke or pull down menus. What you want is for people to be
              able to manipulate their 04 or 32 memos in the most transparent way
              possible. As a long time prof, I am sad to say that most people learn
              and use by copying what they already know and feel famiiar with!

              Wayne
            • jesk50@aol.com
              Hi Wayne In a message dated 3/1/01 7:32:52 PM Central Standard Time, ... Actually so do I. ... TRUE. As a long time musician (and teacher) I see the same
              Message 6 of 17 , Mar 2, 2001
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                Hi Wayne

                In a message dated 3/1/01 7:32:52 PM Central Standard Time,
                Wayne.Hildebrandt@... writes:
                > I sort of like the tree-views
                > of categories on one side and memos on the right type of thing.
                >
                Actually so do I.

                >As a long time prof, I am sad to say that most people learn
                > and use by copying what they already know and feel famiiar with!

                TRUE. As a long time musician (and teacher) I see the same thing. The
                teacher's role is to get the extremely conservative students to see and build
                on familiar connections, and to encourage the bright and creative students
                "out-of-the-box." We are all conservative to some degree.

                Jerry
              • Jeffrey A. Krzysztow
                Jesse, Since you need to re-write this, why not in Java? This will make it work on Windows, MacOS, Linux, and Solaris. One program, multiple platforms. And
                Message 7 of 17 , Mar 2, 2001
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                  Jesse,

                  Since you need to re-write this, why not in Java? This will make it work
                  on Windows, MacOS, Linux, and Solaris. One program, multiple platforms.

                  And maybe this will be the program that converts Jenifer to liking Java
                  programs.

                  Jeffrey

                  jesk50@... wrote:
                  >
                  > In a message dated 3/1/01 2:51:36 PM Central Standard Time,
                  > Wayne.Hildebrandt@... writes:
                  >
                  > > I would think your "user interface" should be the standard of
                  > > the platform you are working on. While a Palm looking interface is
                  > > cute .. when I am using a PC I want to have a common set of controls
                  > > for the several programs I may be running simultaneously. I would
                  > > expect all Palm programs to sort of the same on the Palm and all PC
                  > > programs to be similar on the PC, as well as the MAC.
                  > >
                  > > Just a thought .....
                  >
                  > Wayne,
                  > Yep. Now, as I work on the Windows variation in a 32 bit language (Windows
                  > oriented) instead of my trusty old 16bit compiler, I have access to a
                  > standard toolbox containing menus, list boxes, scroll bars etc. It will
                  > definitely look like a Windows application. But what kind of Windows app
                  > layout would pedit users like to see. Maybe Explorer-ish with tree-views of
                  > categories on one side and memos on the right? Or like MS-Outlook? Or
                  > Internet-like with links, etc.
                  >
                  > Then again, I own a few very creative programs (such as Snappy from Play
                  > Inc.) which try to break from the strictly utilitarian appearance of
                  > Microsoft apps in general. I'm saying I can do all kinds of really creative
                  > things myself --- yet. So I'm just thinking and brainstorming with the pedit
                  > users.
                  >
                  > peditDesk is utilitarian with a slightly cute twist.
                  >
                  > Thanks for the input, Wayne.
                  >
                  > Jerry
                  >
                  > Check the beginners' pedit pTutorial site at http://seigel.yi.org/ (new maintainer wanted)
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, write to peditors-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Paolo Amoroso
                  ... Just a thought: you may be able to access the standard Palm font installed by Palm Desktop (is it really a different font?), provided you know its name,
                  Message 8 of 17 , Mar 2, 2001
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                    On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:12:41 EST, Jerry <jesk50@...> wrote:

                    > What should the desktop GUI (graphical user interface) look like? Similar to

                    Just a thought: you may be able to access the standard Palm font installed
                    by Palm Desktop (is it really a different font?), provided you know its
                    name, which I unfortunately don't. If it's not available, you can default
                    to a different font.


                    Paolo
                    --
                    EncyCMUCLopedia * Extensive collection of CMU Common Lisp documentation
                    http://cvs2.cons.org:8000/cmucl/doc/EncyCMUCLopedia/
                  • Jesse Jacobsen
                    ... I think you meant Jerry, -- similar, but different. :-) ... I did MemoCircus in Python, which is also supported on all those platforms. Unfortunately, I
                    Message 9 of 17 , Mar 2, 2001
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                      On 03/02/01, Jeffrey A. Krzysztow wrote:
                      > Jesse,

                      I think you meant "Jerry," -- similar, but different. :-)

                      > Since you need to re-write this, why not in Java? This will make it work
                      > on Windows, MacOS, Linux, and Solaris. One program, multiple platforms.

                      I did MemoCircus in Python, which is also supported on all those
                      platforms. Unfortunately, I can only test it on Linux and Win95.
                      (http://balder.prohosting.com/jmatjaco/memocircus.html)
                      I *am* planning to write a GUI, but for now it's command-line only.
                      And since it's Lent, I'm kept busy with other stuff at the moment.
                      In the meantime, bug reports are welcome.

                      > And maybe this will be the program that converts Jenifer to liking Java
                      > programs.

                      Personally, I've had the same kind of experience with Java that
                      Jennifer's had. :-( However, if Jerry wanted to write pDesk in Java,
                      I'd be excited to see how it works on Linux!

                      Jesse

                      --
                      Who's the greater fool: he who believes things he can't understand, or he who
                      thinks he can understand all that he believes?
                      http://go.to/gracelutheran
                    • The White Crow
                      ... My first reaction was No Java! and then I saw your next line. ;) Ah, how well I ve made my opinions known. Who knows? I ve recently become convinced
                      Message 10 of 17 , Mar 2, 2001
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                        >Since you need to re-write this, why not in Java? This will make it work
                        >on Windows, MacOS, Linux, and Solaris. One program, multiple platforms.
                        >
                        >And maybe this will be the program that converts Jenifer to liking Java
                        >programs.

                        My first reaction was "No Java!" and then I saw your next line. ;) Ah,
                        how well I've made my opinions known.

                        Who knows? I've recently become convinced that Flash is not the devil's
                        tool I always thought it was and begrudging accept frames as something
                        people can possibly use right. Maybe it is possible for someone to write a
                        Java program that isn't a snail and doesn't crash my computer. :)

                        Jennifer
                        --
                        The White Crow
                        Author of The Deryni Roleplaying Game
                        Coming in November 2001 from Grey Ghost Press
                        My RPG pages: http://www.io.com/~whytcrow/
                        Peditress since 7/5/00
                      • Jeffrey A. Krzysztow
                        ... There is always hope! Jeffrey
                        Message 11 of 17 , Mar 2, 2001
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                          The White Crow wrote:
                          > My first reaction was "No Java!" and then I saw your next line. ;) Ah,
                          > how well I've made my opinions known.
                          >
                          > Who knows? I've recently become convinced that Flash is not the devil's
                          > tool I always thought it was and begrudging accept frames as something
                          > people can possibly use right. Maybe it is possible for someone to write a
                          > Java program that isn't a snail and doesn't crash my computer. :)
                          >

                          There is always hope!

                          Jeffrey
                        • The White Crow
                          ... It s you re own fault. The two of you with such similar names take on similar projects...it s enough to drive any of us crazy (or at least cause the
                          Message 12 of 17 , Mar 2, 2001
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                            >I think you meant "Jerry," -- similar, but different. :-)

                            It's you're own fault. The two of you with such similar names take on
                            similar projects...it's enough to drive any of us crazy (or at least cause
                            the occasional misidentification).

                            >Personally, I've had the same kind of experience with Java that
                            >Jennifer's had. :-( However, if Jerry wanted to write pDesk in Java,
                            >I'd be excited to see how it works on Linux!

                            See? It isn't just me. Seriously though, Java does tend to work better in
                            a unix environment of whatever flavor. THe only time I used Java and was
                            happy with it was back when Java first was introduced, and I was playing
                            online mahjong written in Java via an SGI. I stopped playing because the
                            people on there were jerks, but that's a different story.

                            However, I have seen very few if any Java programs that run that well on my
                            PC or Mac.

                            Jennifer
                          • Jeffrey A. Krzysztow
                            ... Most of the user experience depends and how much ram and processor speed you have. More of these is good. Java IS an interpreted language. Java on the Mac
                            Message 13 of 17 , Mar 2, 2001
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                              The White Crow wrote:
                              >
                              > However, I have seen very few if any Java programs that run that well on my
                              > PC or Mac.
                              >

                              Most of the user experience depends and how much ram and processor speed
                              you have. More of these is good. Java IS an interpreted language. Java
                              on the Mac from what I've followed is currently lacking big time, but OS
                              X is suppose to fix most of that. I have been using Java on the PC and
                              Unix since 1.0.2 days, and it has gotten lots better, but again, more
                              memory and more processor speed is a large part of the key to the
                              experience being positive.

                              Jeffrey
                            • jesk50@aol.com
                              Hi Jeffrey, In a message dated 3/2/01 9:44:12 AM Central Standard Time, ... Ahhh.. I m not the only one who gets names mixed up-- I m Jerry Skelley (jesk50 =
                              Message 14 of 17 , Mar 3, 2001
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                                Hi Jeffrey,

                                In a message dated 3/2/01 9:44:12 AM Central Standard Time,
                                JeffreyKrzysztow@... writes:
                                > Jesse,
                                >
                                > Since you need to re-write this, why not in Java? This will make it work
                                > on Windows, MacOS, Linux, and Solaris. One program, multiple platforms.
                                >
                                > And maybe this will be the program that converts Jenifer to liking Java
                                > programs.
                                >
                                > Jeffrey

                                Ahhh.. I'm not the only one who gets names mixed up-- I'm Jerry Skelley
                                (jesk50 = Je..Sk..) + year of birth.

                                I won't be writing in JAVA for the same reason I'm not writing in C.
                                Ignorance. But also I share Jennifer's reservations about JAVA. If I were
                                really interested in a going back to square one (and "hello world") I would
                                go with C.

                                If I re-write it in VisualBasic (which I am) or XBasic (which looks better
                                all the time) I already know a substantial percentage of the language. If I
                                completely change languages, it's likely to take MANY months before I'm
                                capable of even a rough alpha.

                                Jerry Skelley
                              • jesk50@aol.com
                                In a message dated 3/2/01 10:59:47 AM Central Standard Time, ... Paolo Interesting thought. At very least I ll make that an option. Thanks. Jerry
                                Message 15 of 17 , Mar 3, 2001
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                                  In a message dated 3/2/01 10:59:47 AM Central Standard Time,
                                  amoroso@... writes:

                                  > Just a thought: you may be able to access the standard Palm font installed
                                  > by Palm Desktop (is it really a different font?), provided you know its
                                  > name, which I unfortunately don't. If it's not available, you can default
                                  > to a different font.
                                  >

                                  Paolo
                                  Interesting thought. At very least I'll make that an option. Thanks.
                                  Jerry
                                • jesk50@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 3/2/01 1:17:00 PM Central Standard Time, jmjaco@home.com ... I ve been seriously considering XBasic which has a Linux heritage and is
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Mar 3, 2001
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                                    In a message dated 3/2/01 1:17:00 PM Central Standard Time, jmjaco@...
                                    writes:

                                    > However, if Jerry wanted to write pDesk in Java,
                                    > I'd be excited to see how it works on Linux!
                                    >

                                    I've been seriously considering XBasic which has a Linux heritage and is
                                    designed from the ground up to be cross platform. The XBasic people don't
                                    advise a direct conversion of QuickBasic programs, expecially by a newbie to
                                    their compiler, but they do provide some help on how to do it if you're
                                    determined. I take to mean it's smarter to convert the programmers skill-set
                                    than the code itself.

                                    Struggling with VB and particularly Help engine is reminding me of why I
                                    don't like Microsoft products. Excuse my brief OffTopic here, but the VB
                                    Help files for VisualBasic are interspersed with several other languages like
                                    VisualJava, FoxPro, and VisualC/C++. When I restrict my help searches to
                                    just VisualBasic documentation, I can see links to what I need but they are
                                    grayed out until I remove the restriction and search for the name of the
                                    formerly grayed out link. The answers are there but SHEESH what a pain.

                                    Jerry
                                  • jesk50@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 3/2/01 3:24:22 PM Central Standard Time, whytcrow@io.com ... When I was in undergrad school there was a piano major named Jerry Stauss (I
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Mar 3, 2001
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                                      In a message dated 3/2/01 3:24:22 PM Central Standard Time, whytcrow@...
                                      writes:

                                      > It's you're own fault. The two of you with such similar names take on
                                      > similar projects...it's enough to drive any of us crazy

                                      When I was in undergrad school there was a piano major named Jerry Stauss (I
                                      majored in music theory but of course I've played piano all my life).
                                      Because of our position alphabetically in the class roster, we were assigned
                                      to work as a duet in sight-singing class and neither one of us could match
                                      pitch at first. Both of us could play by ear so we KNEW how out of tune we
                                      were--- just unable to correct it. We were quite a pair !!!

                                      Jerry Skelley
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