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Re: French translation

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  • tymophil
    I think you summarized my problem Alvise... I have done lot of work for the 5.8.1 version, only to find that it was to redone for the next one, then again for
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 30, 2007
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      I think you summarized my problem Alvise...

      I have done lot of work for the 5.8.1 version, only to find that it
      was to redone for the next one, then again for the next... I gave up,
      and still use the 5.8.1 version imperfect as it is.

      I thought that the new appraoch with KEY tag would be better, but it
      is not... The data sets files need much, too much, update and all too
      often.

      And all informations in other locations are not translated at all.

      I really think we *need* a new approach.

      Not being a technical guy, I cannot say if your proposal is the best
      method. But the present one leads nowhere, in my humble opinion. Even
      the files I did a few months ago need an update... Having translated
      data sets along the other ones is a mistake, in my opinion.

      Best regards

      --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com, "Alvise Nicoletti"
      <alvise.nicoletti@...> wrote:
      >
      > Sorry guys... I was talking with Ludovic Fierville about translating all
      > this stuff in Italian.
      >
      > Are you really using that text-editing method to translate stuff? Isn't
      > really very un-reliable?
      >
      > 1) Doing this work, makes all very un-usable in the future, cause the
      > translations are "hardcoded" into files that "one-day-may-change"
      and can be
      > personalized.
      >
      > 2) Doing this work, makes the translation a one-way translation
      > (english-french, english-italian, and so on) so every dataset must be
      > translated in a different text file containing only one language.
      >
      > 3) It must be done "at hand" and the procedure can't be automized.
      >
      > Why can't I do a simple php script that generates datasets using
      variables
      > instead of strings?
      >
      > So: the php script can take the strings from a database, the
      database could
      > have this structure:
      > Table languages:
      > COLUMN LANG_KEY-> 1,2,3,4 and so on
      > COLUMN LANGUAGE-> official, english, italian, french, and so on
      >
      > Table Translations:
      > COLUMN TRANS_KEY -> 1,2,3,4 and so on
      > COLUMN WORD -> strength, strength, forza, force
      > COLUMN LANG_KEY -> 1,2,3,4
      >
      > And so on with every word meaning (word meaning doesn't means word) in
      > Dungeons&Dragons.
      >
      > We can easily do a script to generate automatically vocabularies for
      > everything in that way, and change the wrong-translated words (like
      feats
      > and skills that something changes between english and translation)
      with our
      > hands in a second round.
      >
      > In this way we will "create" something... in the other way I think that
      > you're just doing a work that have no future :D (or will cost a lot
      of work
      > to be mantained).
      >
      > Of course we will do php pages that will generate translated
      datasets for
      > everything... it's really easy to do that and a lot of stuff can be
      taken
      > from the excel files downloadable in internet. I got excel files that
      > translate all feats and skills from english to italian, with such a
      database
      > we could just put them into the tables and enjoy the work done for every
      > dynamic-generated dataset.
      >
      > Call me if you want some coding in that direction... in other cases,
      I'm not
      > going to translate in Italian PcGen datasets like this, I think it's
      a waste
      > of time cause the work is not usable again in the future.
      >
      > p.s. Instead of using php (or any other web based way) to generate
      > dinamically the datasets, we could just give to pcgen a database and
      make
      > him connect through odbc, or maybe give to him directly xml generated by
      > something else (like java of course).
      >
      >
      > 2007/3/29, tymophil <tymophil@...>:
      > >
      > > Hi kernelmsru,
      > >
      > > I already translated all that was to be translated in the I18N.zip
      > > file. You can get the translated file in the files section.
      > >
      > > There are, obviously, other files to translate, but I don't know which
      > > should be translated at this stage... In order to have a translated
      > > file working fine with PCGen, it needs to have certain tags that are
      > > specifically aimed at internalisation, and very few files seem to have
      > > such tags enabled, if I unsderstood right...
      > >
      > > In fact, even the files in the present I18N.zip need reworking, as
      > > they contain deprecated syntax and tags... A new version would be
      > > nice, along with files about monsters.
      > >
      > > It would be nice to have the files within the PCGen.jar file :
      > > LanguageBundle.properties (the files that translate the software
      > > interface). But as the file is within the jar file, it is very painful
      > > to translate it and test it. Because sometimes the context just means
      > > that a litteral translation would give weird results.
      > >
      > > I would also like to have a way to translate safely the files within
      > > the the system/GameModes...
      > >
      > > There is also an issue with the sorting of the lists for skills and
      > > gear (at least) : avery annoying problem.
      > >
      > > There is also an issue with some files that don't support UTF-8 format
      > > too well, I just stumbled on the rsrd_races__animals.lst file that
      > > doesn't like the first line, and has a . added at the beginning of the
      > > first line...
      > >
      > > Be also aware that, if I understood correctly, some information won't
      > > be translated at all, at least in the near future, such as the
      > > duration of spells, as this information is used internally.
      > >
      > > So for the moment being, I still use the very imperfect 5.8.1 PC Gen,
      > > as translating the latest version is too much work for me, and a work
      > > that needs to be redone with each and every new version...
      > >
      > > For the moment being, I wait for more informations about what could be
      > > translated...
      > >
      > > Best regards.
      > >
      > > --- In
      pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > "kernelmsru"
      > > <lightangel@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello,
      > > >
      > > > I applyed long ago for the french translation, but some events
      > > > prevented me from beiging able to have enought time to make ant
      > > > translation. In this way I'd like to apologize for this delay.
      > > > Second thing, I think I can manage to have some hours to do this
      > > > translation. Which means I would like to syncronise my work with
      > > > Philippe. Next lines are in french for an easier communication
      with him.
      > > >
      > > > Bonjour,
      > > >
      > > > Donc je voulais savoir ce que je pouvais encore apporter (je
      crois que
      > > > tu as déja bien avancé) sur le projet de traduction en français.
      Je te
      > > > propose donc soit on continue les conversations à ce sujet via le
      > > > groupe de discussion, ou bien par e-mail ou par messagerie
      instentanée.
      > > > Comme tu le désir.
      > > >
      > > > Lightangel
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • kernelmsru
      My programmer skills are near the absolute zero but if I may suggest : can t we use Gettext Portable Object (under GNU licence)? This would decrease
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 1 5:08 AM
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        My programmer skills are near the absolute zero but if I may
        suggest : can't we use Gettext Portable Object (under GNU licence)?
        This would decrease translators' work.

        Once I've corrected mistakes into the I18N_FR what should I do with
        it ? Do I have to translate the sedbasefile too ?

        Best regards,

        --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com, "tymophil" <tymophil@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I think you summarized my problem Alvise...
        >
        > I have done lot of work for the 5.8.1 version, only to find that it
        > was to redone for the next one, then again for the next... I gave
        up,
        > and still use the 5.8.1 version imperfect as it is.
        >
        > I thought that the new appraoch with KEY tag would be better, but it
        > is not... The data sets files need much, too much, update and all
        too
        > often.
        >
        > And all informations in other locations are not translated at all.
        >
        > I really think we *need* a new approach.
        >
        > Not being a technical guy, I cannot say if your proposal is the best
        > method. But the present one leads nowhere, in my humble opinion.
        Even
        > the files I did a few months ago need an update... Having translated
        > data sets along the other ones is a mistake, in my opinion.
        >
        > Best regards
        >
        > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com, "Alvise Nicoletti"
        > <alvise.nicoletti@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Sorry guys... I was talking with Ludovic Fierville about
        translating all
        > > this stuff in Italian.
        > >
        > > Are you really using that text-editing method to translate stuff?
        Isn't
        > > really very un-reliable?
        > >
        > > 1) Doing this work, makes all very un-usable in the future, cause
        the
        > > translations are "hardcoded" into files that "one-day-may-change"
        > and can be
        > > personalized.
        > >
        > > 2) Doing this work, makes the translation a one-way translation
        > > (english-french, english-italian, and so on) so every dataset
        must be
        > > translated in a different text file containing only one language.
        > >
        > > 3) It must be done "at hand" and the procedure can't be automized.
        > >
        > > Why can't I do a simple php script that generates datasets using
        > variables
        > > instead of strings?
        > >
        > > So: the php script can take the strings from a database, the
        > database could
        > > have this structure:
        > > Table languages:
        > > COLUMN LANG_KEY-> 1,2,3,4 and so on
        > > COLUMN LANGUAGE-> official, english, italian, french, and so on
        > >
        > > Table Translations:
        > > COLUMN TRANS_KEY -> 1,2,3,4 and so on
        > > COLUMN WORD -> strength, strength, forza, force
        > > COLUMN LANG_KEY -> 1,2,3,4
        > >
        > > And so on with every word meaning (word meaning doesn't means
        word) in
        > > Dungeons&Dragons.
        > >
        > > We can easily do a script to generate automatically vocabularies
        for
        > > everything in that way, and change the wrong-translated words
        (like
        > feats
        > > and skills that something changes between english and translation)
        > with our
        > > hands in a second round.
        > >
        > > In this way we will "create" something... in the other way I
        think that
        > > you're just doing a work that have no future :D (or will cost a
        lot
        > of work
        > > to be mantained).
        > >
        > > Of course we will do php pages that will generate translated
        > datasets for
        > > everything... it's really easy to do that and a lot of stuff can
        be
        > taken
        > > from the excel files downloadable in internet. I got excel files
        that
        > > translate all feats and skills from english to italian, with such
        a
        > database
        > > we could just put them into the tables and enjoy the work done
        for every
        > > dynamic-generated dataset.
        > >
        > > Call me if you want some coding in that direction... in other
        cases,
        > I'm not
        > > going to translate in Italian PcGen datasets like this, I think
        it's
        > a waste
        > > of time cause the work is not usable again in the future.
        > >
        > > p.s. Instead of using php (or any other web based way) to generate
        > > dinamically the datasets, we could just give to pcgen a database
        and
        > make
        > > him connect through odbc, or maybe give to him directly xml
        generated by
        > > something else (like java of course).
        > >
        > >
        > > 2007/3/29, tymophil <tymophil@>:
        > > >
        > > > Hi kernelmsru,
        > > >
        > > > I already translated all that was to be translated in the
        I18N.zip
        > > > file. You can get the translated file in the files section.
        > > >
        > > > There are, obviously, other files to translate, but I don't
        know which
        > > > should be translated at this stage... In order to have a
        translated
        > > > file working fine with PCGen, it needs to have certain tags
        that are
        > > > specifically aimed at internalisation, and very few files seem
        to have
        > > > such tags enabled, if I unsderstood right...
        > > >
        > > > In fact, even the files in the present I18N.zip need reworking,
        as
        > > > they contain deprecated syntax and tags... A new version would
        be
        > > > nice, along with files about monsters.
        > > >
        > > > It would be nice to have the files within the PCGen.jar file :
        > > > LanguageBundle.properties (the files that translate the software
        > > > interface). But as the file is within the jar file, it is very
        painful
        > > > to translate it and test it. Because sometimes the context just
        means
        > > > that a litteral translation would give weird results.
        > > >
        > > > I would also like to have a way to translate safely the files
        within
        > > > the the system/GameModes...
        > > >
        > > > There is also an issue with the sorting of the lists for skills
        and
        > > > gear (at least) : avery annoying problem.
        > > >
        > > > There is also an issue with some files that don't support UTF-8
        format
        > > > too well, I just stumbled on the rsrd_races__animals.lst file
        that
        > > > doesn't like the first line, and has a . added at the beginning
        of the
        > > > first line...
        > > >
        > > > Be also aware that, if I understood correctly, some information
        won't
        > > > be translated at all, at least in the near future, such as the
        > > > duration of spells, as this information is used internally.
        > > >
        > > > So for the moment being, I still use the very imperfect 5.8.1
        PC Gen,
        > > > as translating the latest version is too much work for me, and
        a work
        > > > that needs to be redone with each and every new version...
        > > >
        > > > For the moment being, I wait for more informations about what
        could be
        > > > translated...
        > > >
        > > > Best regards.
        > > >
        > > > --- In
        > pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%
        40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > > "kernelmsru"
        > > > <lightangel@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hello,
        > > > >
        > > > > I applyed long ago for the french translation, but some events
        > > > > prevented me from beiging able to have enought time to make
        ant
        > > > > translation. In this way I'd like to apologize for this delay.
        > > > > Second thing, I think I can manage to have some hours to do
        this
        > > > > translation. Which means I would like to syncronise my work
        with
        > > > > Philippe. Next lines are in french for an easier communication
        > with him.
        > > > >
        > > > > Bonjour,
        > > > >
        > > > > Donc je voulais savoir ce que je pouvais encore apporter (je
        > crois que
        > > > > tu as déja bien avancé) sur le projet de traduction en
        français.
        > Je te
        > > > > propose donc soit on continue les conversations à ce sujet
        via le
        > > > > groupe de discussion, ou bien par e-mail ou par messagerie
        > instentanée.
        > > > > Comme tu le désir.
        > > > >
        > > > > Lightangel
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
      • tymophil
        ... Make sure to send me the corrected file along with hints on what I did wrong. Thanks.
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 1 10:08 AM
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          --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com, "kernelmsru"
          <lightangel@...> wrote:
          >
          > My programmer skills are near the absolute zero but if I may
          > suggest : can't we use Gettext Portable Object (under GNU licence)?
          > This would decrease translators' work.
          >
          > Once I've corrected mistakes into the I18N_FR what should I do with
          > it ? Do I have to translate the sedbasefile too ?

          Make sure to send me the corrected file along with hints on what I did
          wrong.

          Thanks.

          > Best regards,
          >
          > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com, "tymophil" <tymophil@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > I think you summarized my problem Alvise...
          > >
          > > I have done lot of work for the 5.8.1 version, only to find that it
          > > was to redone for the next one, then again for the next... I gave
          > up,
          > > and still use the 5.8.1 version imperfect as it is.
          > >
          > > I thought that the new appraoch with KEY tag would be better, but it
          > > is not... The data sets files need much, too much, update and all
          > too
          > > often.
          > >
          > > And all informations in other locations are not translated at all.
          > >
          > > I really think we *need* a new approach.
          > >
          > > Not being a technical guy, I cannot say if your proposal is the best
          > > method. But the present one leads nowhere, in my humble opinion.
          > Even
          > > the files I did a few months ago need an update... Having translated
          > > data sets along the other ones is a mistake, in my opinion.
          > >
          > > Best regards
          > >
          > > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com, "Alvise Nicoletti"
          > > <alvise.nicoletti@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Sorry guys... I was talking with Ludovic Fierville about
          > translating all
          > > > this stuff in Italian.
          > > >
          > > > Are you really using that text-editing method to translate stuff?
          > Isn't
          > > > really very un-reliable?
          > > >
          > > > 1) Doing this work, makes all very un-usable in the future, cause
          > the
          > > > translations are "hardcoded" into files that "one-day-may-change"
          > > and can be
          > > > personalized.
          > > >
          > > > 2) Doing this work, makes the translation a one-way translation
          > > > (english-french, english-italian, and so on) so every dataset
          > must be
          > > > translated in a different text file containing only one language.
          > > >
          > > > 3) It must be done "at hand" and the procedure can't be automized.
          > > >
          > > > Why can't I do a simple php script that generates datasets using
          > > variables
          > > > instead of strings?
          > > >
          > > > So: the php script can take the strings from a database, the
          > > database could
          > > > have this structure:
          > > > Table languages:
          > > > COLUMN LANG_KEY-> 1,2,3,4 and so on
          > > > COLUMN LANGUAGE-> official, english, italian, french, and so on
          > > >
          > > > Table Translations:
          > > > COLUMN TRANS_KEY -> 1,2,3,4 and so on
          > > > COLUMN WORD -> strength, strength, forza, force
          > > > COLUMN LANG_KEY -> 1,2,3,4
          > > >
          > > > And so on with every word meaning (word meaning doesn't means
          > word) in
          > > > Dungeons&Dragons.
          > > >
          > > > We can easily do a script to generate automatically vocabularies
          > for
          > > > everything in that way, and change the wrong-translated words
          > (like
          > > feats
          > > > and skills that something changes between english and translation)
          > > with our
          > > > hands in a second round.
          > > >
          > > > In this way we will "create" something... in the other way I
          > think that
          > > > you're just doing a work that have no future :D (or will cost a
          > lot
          > > of work
          > > > to be mantained).
          > > >
          > > > Of course we will do php pages that will generate translated
          > > datasets for
          > > > everything... it's really easy to do that and a lot of stuff can
          > be
          > > taken
          > > > from the excel files downloadable in internet. I got excel files
          > that
          > > > translate all feats and skills from english to italian, with such
          > a
          > > database
          > > > we could just put them into the tables and enjoy the work done
          > for every
          > > > dynamic-generated dataset.
          > > >
          > > > Call me if you want some coding in that direction... in other
          > cases,
          > > I'm not
          > > > going to translate in Italian PcGen datasets like this, I think
          > it's
          > > a waste
          > > > of time cause the work is not usable again in the future.
          > > >
          > > > p.s. Instead of using php (or any other web based way) to generate
          > > > dinamically the datasets, we could just give to pcgen a database
          > and
          > > make
          > > > him connect through odbc, or maybe give to him directly xml
          > generated by
          > > > something else (like java of course).
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > 2007/3/29, tymophil <tymophil@>:
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi kernelmsru,
          > > > >
          > > > > I already translated all that was to be translated in the
          > I18N.zip
          > > > > file. You can get the translated file in the files section.
          > > > >
          > > > > There are, obviously, other files to translate, but I don't
          > know which
          > > > > should be translated at this stage... In order to have a
          > translated
          > > > > file working fine with PCGen, it needs to have certain tags
          > that are
          > > > > specifically aimed at internalisation, and very few files seem
          > to have
          > > > > such tags enabled, if I unsderstood right...
          > > > >
          > > > > In fact, even the files in the present I18N.zip need reworking,
          > as
          > > > > they contain deprecated syntax and tags... A new version would
          > be
          > > > > nice, along with files about monsters.
          > > > >
          > > > > It would be nice to have the files within the PCGen.jar file :
          > > > > LanguageBundle.properties (the files that translate the software
          > > > > interface). But as the file is within the jar file, it is very
          > painful
          > > > > to translate it and test it. Because sometimes the context just
          > means
          > > > > that a litteral translation would give weird results.
          > > > >
          > > > > I would also like to have a way to translate safely the files
          > within
          > > > > the the system/GameModes...
          > > > >
          > > > > There is also an issue with the sorting of the lists for skills
          > and
          > > > > gear (at least) : avery annoying problem.
          > > > >
          > > > > There is also an issue with some files that don't support UTF-8
          > format
          > > > > too well, I just stumbled on the rsrd_races__animals.lst file
          > that
          > > > > doesn't like the first line, and has a . added at the beginning
          > of the
          > > > > first line...
          > > > >
          > > > > Be also aware that, if I understood correctly, some information
          > won't
          > > > > be translated at all, at least in the near future, such as the
          > > > > duration of spells, as this information is used internally.
          > > > >
          > > > > So for the moment being, I still use the very imperfect 5.8.1
          > PC Gen,
          > > > > as translating the latest version is too much work for me, and
          > a work
          > > > > that needs to be redone with each and every new version...
          > > > >
          > > > > For the moment being, I wait for more informations about what
          > could be
          > > > > translated...
          > > > >
          > > > > Best regards.
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In
          > > pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%
          > 40yahoogroups.com>,
          > > > > "kernelmsru"
          > > > > <lightangel@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Hello,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I applyed long ago for the french translation, but some events
          > > > > > prevented me from beiging able to have enought time to make
          > ant
          > > > > > translation. In this way I'd like to apologize for this delay.
          > > > > > Second thing, I think I can manage to have some hours to do
          > this
          > > > > > translation. Which means I would like to syncronise my work
          > with
          > > > > > Philippe. Next lines are in french for an easier communication
          > > with him.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Bonjour,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Donc je voulais savoir ce que je pouvais encore apporter (je
          > > crois que
          > > > > > tu as déja bien avancé) sur le projet de traduction en
          > français.
          > > Je te
          > > > > > propose donc soit on continue les conversations à ce sujet
          > via le
          > > > > > groupe de discussion, ou bien par e-mail ou par messagerie
          > > instentanée.
          > > > > > Comme tu le désir.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Lightangel
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Alvise Nicoletti
          I am a programmer and i used java for a lot of years, however, I don t want to make any kind of revolution here in PcGen. I was just guessing a new and better
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 2 4:21 AM
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            I am a programmer and i used java for a lot of years, however, I don't want
            to make any kind of revolution here in PcGen. I was just guessing a new and
            better approach to the translation methods... cause before translating
            Italian I want to ensure that my work worth it, I can't edit the datasets
            every time pc gen came out with a new version...

            The recent mail of Karianna makes me think that probably I have to
            write-propose less and take more responsibilities...
            ... I'm still not an official member of the PcGen team, however, I'm
            thinking about it...

            If there are other channels to talk with Aaron, make me know, until that,
            I'll continue to write at this mailing list, and, if you want, I can do a
            little project (coding it too) to make you understand better what means to
            generate static datasets "dynamically" using variables instead of constants.
            In a second time, we can assign to the variables the data that we take from
            a database, in the correct translation.

            That could be really easy to make an output demo datasheet, and a web page
            to input data from... if you want I can make it in a week, just to test it
            (I work a lot so I don't have much time).

            The only think I still have not understand is if it is legal to translate
            D&D stuff, even if the english source is rsd.

            Bye

            2007/4/1, tymophil <tymophil@...>:
            >
            > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > "kernelmsru"
            > <lightangel@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > My programmer skills are near the absolute zero but if I may
            > > suggest : can't we use Gettext Portable Object (under GNU licence)?
            > > This would decrease translators' work.
            > >
            > > Once I've corrected mistakes into the I18N_FR what should I do with
            > > it ? Do I have to translate the sedbasefile too ?
            >
            > Make sure to send me the corrected file along with hints on what I did
            > wrong.
            >
            > Thanks.
            >
            >
            > > Best regards,
            > >
            > > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > "tymophil" <tymophil@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I think you summarized my problem Alvise...
            > > >
            > > > I have done lot of work for the 5.8.1 version, only to find that it
            > > > was to redone for the next one, then again for the next... I gave
            > > up,
            > > > and still use the 5.8.1 version imperfect as it is.
            > > >
            > > > I thought that the new appraoch with KEY tag would be better, but it
            > > > is not... The data sets files need much, too much, update and all
            > > too
            > > > often.
            > > >
            > > > And all informations in other locations are not translated at all.
            > > >
            > > > I really think we *need* a new approach.
            > > >
            > > > Not being a technical guy, I cannot say if your proposal is the best
            > > > method. But the present one leads nowhere, in my humble opinion.
            > > Even
            > > > the files I did a few months ago need an update... Having translated
            > > > data sets along the other ones is a mistake, in my opinion.
            > > >
            > > > Best regards
            > > >
            > > > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > "Alvise Nicoletti"
            > > > <alvise.nicoletti@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Sorry guys... I was talking with Ludovic Fierville about
            > > translating all
            > > > > this stuff in Italian.
            > > > >
            > > > > Are you really using that text-editing method to translate stuff?
            > > Isn't
            > > > > really very un-reliable?
            > > > >
            > > > > 1) Doing this work, makes all very un-usable in the future, cause
            > > the
            > > > > translations are "hardcoded" into files that "one-day-may-change"
            > > > and can be
            > > > > personalized.
            > > > >
            > > > > 2) Doing this work, makes the translation a one-way translation
            > > > > (english-french, english-italian, and so on) so every dataset
            > > must be
            > > > > translated in a different text file containing only one language.
            > > > >
            > > > > 3) It must be done "at hand" and the procedure can't be automized.
            > > > >
            > > > > Why can't I do a simple php script that generates datasets using
            > > > variables
            > > > > instead of strings?
            > > > >
            > > > > So: the php script can take the strings from a database, the
            > > > database could
            > > > > have this structure:
            > > > > Table languages:
            > > > > COLUMN LANG_KEY-> 1,2,3,4 and so on
            > > > > COLUMN LANGUAGE-> official, english, italian, french, and so on
            > > > >
            > > > > Table Translations:
            > > > > COLUMN TRANS_KEY -> 1,2,3,4 and so on
            > > > > COLUMN WORD -> strength, strength, forza, force
            > > > > COLUMN LANG_KEY -> 1,2,3,4
            > > > >
            > > > > And so on with every word meaning (word meaning doesn't means
            > > word) in
            > > > > Dungeons&Dragons.
            > > > >
            > > > > We can easily do a script to generate automatically vocabularies
            > > for
            > > > > everything in that way, and change the wrong-translated words
            > > (like
            > > > feats
            > > > > and skills that something changes between english and translation)
            > > > with our
            > > > > hands in a second round.
            > > > >
            > > > > In this way we will "create" something... in the other way I
            > > think that
            > > > > you're just doing a work that have no future :D (or will cost a
            > > lot
            > > > of work
            > > > > to be mantained).
            > > > >
            > > > > Of course we will do php pages that will generate translated
            > > > datasets for
            > > > > everything... it's really easy to do that and a lot of stuff can
            > > be
            > > > taken
            > > > > from the excel files downloadable in internet. I got excel files
            > > that
            > > > > translate all feats and skills from english to italian, with such
            > > a
            > > > database
            > > > > we could just put them into the tables and enjoy the work done
            > > for every
            > > > > dynamic-generated dataset.
            > > > >
            > > > > Call me if you want some coding in that direction... in other
            > > cases,
            > > > I'm not
            > > > > going to translate in Italian PcGen datasets like this, I think
            > > it's
            > > > a waste
            > > > > of time cause the work is not usable again in the future.
            > > > >
            > > > > p.s. Instead of using php (or any other web based way) to generate
            > > > > dinamically the datasets, we could just give to pcgen a database
            > > and
            > > > make
            > > > > him connect through odbc, or maybe give to him directly xml
            > > generated by
            > > > > something else (like java of course).
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > 2007/3/29, tymophil <tymophil@>:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi kernelmsru,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I already translated all that was to be translated in the
            > > I18N.zip
            > > > > > file. You can get the translated file in the files section.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > There are, obviously, other files to translate, but I don't
            > > know which
            > > > > > should be translated at this stage... In order to have a
            > > translated
            > > > > > file working fine with PCGen, it needs to have certain tags
            > > that are
            > > > > > specifically aimed at internalisation, and very few files seem
            > > to have
            > > > > > such tags enabled, if I unsderstood right...
            > > > > >
            > > > > > In fact, even the files in the present I18N.zip need reworking,
            > > as
            > > > > > they contain deprecated syntax and tags... A new version would
            > > be
            > > > > > nice, along with files about monsters.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > It would be nice to have the files within the PCGen.jar file :
            > > > > > LanguageBundle.properties (the files that translate the software
            > > > > > interface). But as the file is within the jar file, it is very
            > > painful
            > > > > > to translate it and test it. Because sometimes the context just
            > > means
            > > > > > that a litteral translation would give weird results.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I would also like to have a way to translate safely the files
            > > within
            > > > > > the the system/GameModes...
            > > > > >
            > > > > > There is also an issue with the sorting of the lists for skills
            > > and
            > > > > > gear (at least) : avery annoying problem.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > There is also an issue with some files that don't support UTF-8
            > > format
            > > > > > too well, I just stumbled on the rsrd_races__animals.lst file
            > > that
            > > > > > doesn't like the first line, and has a . added at the beginning
            > > of the
            > > > > > first line...
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Be also aware that, if I understood correctly, some information
            > > won't
            > > > > > be translated at all, at least in the near future, such as the
            > > > > > duration of spells, as this information is used internally.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > So for the moment being, I still use the very imperfect 5.8.1
            > > PC Gen,
            > > > > > as translating the latest version is too much work for me, and
            > > a work
            > > > > > that needs to be redone with each and every new version...
            > > > > >
            > > > > > For the moment being, I wait for more informations about what
            > > could be
            > > > > > translated...
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Best regards.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In
            > > > pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%40yahoogroups.com>
            > <pcgen_international%
            > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
            > > > > > "kernelmsru"
            > > > > > <lightangel@> wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Hello,
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I applyed long ago for the french translation, but some events
            > > > > > > prevented me from beiging able to have enought time to make
            > > ant
            > > > > > > translation. In this way I'd like to apologize for this delay.
            > > > > > > Second thing, I think I can manage to have some hours to do
            > > this
            > > > > > > translation. Which means I would like to syncronise my work
            > > with
            > > > > > > Philippe. Next lines are in french for an easier communication
            > > > with him.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Bonjour,
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Donc je voulais savoir ce que je pouvais encore apporter (je
            > > > crois que
            > > > > > > tu as d�ja bien avanc�) sur le projet de traduction en
            > > fran�ais.
            > > > Je te
            > > > > > > propose donc soit on continue les conversations � ce sujet
            > > via le
            > > > > > > groupe de discussion, ou bien par e-mail ou par messagerie
            > > > instentan�e.
            > > > > > > Comme tu le d�sir.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Lightangel
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Tir Gwaith
            ... Under the OGL, yes. Using SRD/RSRD/MSRD, translations are derivative works and can be used so long as the OGL is followed correctly (citing source,
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 2 6:43 PM
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            • 0 Attachment
              > The only think I still have not understand is if it is legal to translate
              > D&D stuff, even if the english source is rsd.

              Under the OGL, yes. Using SRD/RSRD/MSRD, translations are 'derivative
              works' and can be used so long as the OGL is followed correctly
              (citing source, etc.)

              --
              Tir Gwaith
              PCGen LST Chimp
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