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Re: [pcgen_international] Re: French translation

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  • Alvise Nicoletti
    Sorry guys... I was talking with Ludovic Fierville about translating all this stuff in Italian. Are you really using that text-editing method to translate
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 30, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Sorry guys... I was talking with Ludovic Fierville about translating all
      this stuff in Italian.

      Are you really using that text-editing method to translate stuff? Isn't
      really very un-reliable?

      1) Doing this work, makes all very un-usable in the future, cause the
      translations are "hardcoded" into files that "one-day-may-change" and can be
      personalized.

      2) Doing this work, makes the translation a one-way translation
      (english-french, english-italian, and so on) so every dataset must be
      translated in a different text file containing only one language.

      3) It must be done "at hand" and the procedure can't be automized.

      Why can't I do a simple php script that generates datasets using variables
      instead of strings?

      So: the php script can take the strings from a database, the database could
      have this structure:
      Table languages:
      COLUMN LANG_KEY-> 1,2,3,4 and so on
      COLUMN LANGUAGE-> official, english, italian, french, and so on

      Table Translations:
      COLUMN TRANS_KEY -> 1,2,3,4 and so on
      COLUMN WORD -> strength, strength, forza, force
      COLUMN LANG_KEY -> 1,2,3,4

      And so on with every word meaning (word meaning doesn't means word) in
      Dungeons&Dragons.

      We can easily do a script to generate automatically vocabularies for
      everything in that way, and change the wrong-translated words (like feats
      and skills that something changes between english and translation) with our
      hands in a second round.

      In this way we will "create" something... in the other way I think that
      you're just doing a work that have no future :D (or will cost a lot of work
      to be mantained).

      Of course we will do php pages that will generate translated datasets for
      everything... it's really easy to do that and a lot of stuff can be taken
      from the excel files downloadable in internet. I got excel files that
      translate all feats and skills from english to italian, with such a database
      we could just put them into the tables and enjoy the work done for every
      dynamic-generated dataset.

      Call me if you want some coding in that direction... in other cases, I'm not
      going to translate in Italian PcGen datasets like this, I think it's a waste
      of time cause the work is not usable again in the future.

      p.s. Instead of using php (or any other web based way) to generate
      dinamically the datasets, we could just give to pcgen a database and make
      him connect through odbc, or maybe give to him directly xml generated by
      something else (like java of course).


      2007/3/29, tymophil <tymophil@...>:
      >
      > Hi kernelmsru,
      >
      > I already translated all that was to be translated in the I18N.zip
      > file. You can get the translated file in the files section.
      >
      > There are, obviously, other files to translate, but I don't know which
      > should be translated at this stage... In order to have a translated
      > file working fine with PCGen, it needs to have certain tags that are
      > specifically aimed at internalisation, and very few files seem to have
      > such tags enabled, if I unsderstood right...
      >
      > In fact, even the files in the present I18N.zip need reworking, as
      > they contain deprecated syntax and tags... A new version would be
      > nice, along with files about monsters.
      >
      > It would be nice to have the files within the PCGen.jar file :
      > LanguageBundle.properties (the files that translate the software
      > interface). But as the file is within the jar file, it is very painful
      > to translate it and test it. Because sometimes the context just means
      > that a litteral translation would give weird results.
      >
      > I would also like to have a way to translate safely the files within
      > the the system/GameModes...
      >
      > There is also an issue with the sorting of the lists for skills and
      > gear (at least) : avery annoying problem.
      >
      > There is also an issue with some files that don't support UTF-8 format
      > too well, I just stumbled on the rsrd_races__animals.lst file that
      > doesn't like the first line, and has a . added at the beginning of the
      > first line...
      >
      > Be also aware that, if I understood correctly, some information won't
      > be translated at all, at least in the near future, such as the
      > duration of spells, as this information is used internally.
      >
      > So for the moment being, I still use the very imperfect 5.8.1 PC Gen,
      > as translating the latest version is too much work for me, and a work
      > that needs to be redone with each and every new version...
      >
      > For the moment being, I wait for more informations about what could be
      > translated...
      >
      > Best regards.
      >
      > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > "kernelmsru"
      > <lightangel@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello,
      > >
      > > I applyed long ago for the french translation, but some events
      > > prevented me from beiging able to have enought time to make ant
      > > translation. In this way I'd like to apologize for this delay.
      > > Second thing, I think I can manage to have some hours to do this
      > > translation. Which means I would like to syncronise my work with
      > > Philippe. Next lines are in french for an easier communication with him.
      > >
      > > Bonjour,
      > >
      > > Donc je voulais savoir ce que je pouvais encore apporter (je crois que
      > > tu as déja bien avancé) sur le projet de traduction en français. Je te
      > > propose donc soit on continue les conversations à ce sujet via le
      > > groupe de discussion, ou bien par e-mail ou par messagerie instentanée.
      > > Comme tu le désir.
      > >
      > > Lightangel
      > >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • tymophil
      I think you summarized my problem Alvise... I have done lot of work for the 5.8.1 version, only to find that it was to redone for the next one, then again for
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 30, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        I think you summarized my problem Alvise...

        I have done lot of work for the 5.8.1 version, only to find that it
        was to redone for the next one, then again for the next... I gave up,
        and still use the 5.8.1 version imperfect as it is.

        I thought that the new appraoch with KEY tag would be better, but it
        is not... The data sets files need much, too much, update and all too
        often.

        And all informations in other locations are not translated at all.

        I really think we *need* a new approach.

        Not being a technical guy, I cannot say if your proposal is the best
        method. But the present one leads nowhere, in my humble opinion. Even
        the files I did a few months ago need an update... Having translated
        data sets along the other ones is a mistake, in my opinion.

        Best regards

        --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com, "Alvise Nicoletti"
        <alvise.nicoletti@...> wrote:
        >
        > Sorry guys... I was talking with Ludovic Fierville about translating all
        > this stuff in Italian.
        >
        > Are you really using that text-editing method to translate stuff? Isn't
        > really very un-reliable?
        >
        > 1) Doing this work, makes all very un-usable in the future, cause the
        > translations are "hardcoded" into files that "one-day-may-change"
        and can be
        > personalized.
        >
        > 2) Doing this work, makes the translation a one-way translation
        > (english-french, english-italian, and so on) so every dataset must be
        > translated in a different text file containing only one language.
        >
        > 3) It must be done "at hand" and the procedure can't be automized.
        >
        > Why can't I do a simple php script that generates datasets using
        variables
        > instead of strings?
        >
        > So: the php script can take the strings from a database, the
        database could
        > have this structure:
        > Table languages:
        > COLUMN LANG_KEY-> 1,2,3,4 and so on
        > COLUMN LANGUAGE-> official, english, italian, french, and so on
        >
        > Table Translations:
        > COLUMN TRANS_KEY -> 1,2,3,4 and so on
        > COLUMN WORD -> strength, strength, forza, force
        > COLUMN LANG_KEY -> 1,2,3,4
        >
        > And so on with every word meaning (word meaning doesn't means word) in
        > Dungeons&Dragons.
        >
        > We can easily do a script to generate automatically vocabularies for
        > everything in that way, and change the wrong-translated words (like
        feats
        > and skills that something changes between english and translation)
        with our
        > hands in a second round.
        >
        > In this way we will "create" something... in the other way I think that
        > you're just doing a work that have no future :D (or will cost a lot
        of work
        > to be mantained).
        >
        > Of course we will do php pages that will generate translated
        datasets for
        > everything... it's really easy to do that and a lot of stuff can be
        taken
        > from the excel files downloadable in internet. I got excel files that
        > translate all feats and skills from english to italian, with such a
        database
        > we could just put them into the tables and enjoy the work done for every
        > dynamic-generated dataset.
        >
        > Call me if you want some coding in that direction... in other cases,
        I'm not
        > going to translate in Italian PcGen datasets like this, I think it's
        a waste
        > of time cause the work is not usable again in the future.
        >
        > p.s. Instead of using php (or any other web based way) to generate
        > dinamically the datasets, we could just give to pcgen a database and
        make
        > him connect through odbc, or maybe give to him directly xml generated by
        > something else (like java of course).
        >
        >
        > 2007/3/29, tymophil <tymophil@...>:
        > >
        > > Hi kernelmsru,
        > >
        > > I already translated all that was to be translated in the I18N.zip
        > > file. You can get the translated file in the files section.
        > >
        > > There are, obviously, other files to translate, but I don't know which
        > > should be translated at this stage... In order to have a translated
        > > file working fine with PCGen, it needs to have certain tags that are
        > > specifically aimed at internalisation, and very few files seem to have
        > > such tags enabled, if I unsderstood right...
        > >
        > > In fact, even the files in the present I18N.zip need reworking, as
        > > they contain deprecated syntax and tags... A new version would be
        > > nice, along with files about monsters.
        > >
        > > It would be nice to have the files within the PCGen.jar file :
        > > LanguageBundle.properties (the files that translate the software
        > > interface). But as the file is within the jar file, it is very painful
        > > to translate it and test it. Because sometimes the context just means
        > > that a litteral translation would give weird results.
        > >
        > > I would also like to have a way to translate safely the files within
        > > the the system/GameModes...
        > >
        > > There is also an issue with the sorting of the lists for skills and
        > > gear (at least) : avery annoying problem.
        > >
        > > There is also an issue with some files that don't support UTF-8 format
        > > too well, I just stumbled on the rsrd_races__animals.lst file that
        > > doesn't like the first line, and has a . added at the beginning of the
        > > first line...
        > >
        > > Be also aware that, if I understood correctly, some information won't
        > > be translated at all, at least in the near future, such as the
        > > duration of spells, as this information is used internally.
        > >
        > > So for the moment being, I still use the very imperfect 5.8.1 PC Gen,
        > > as translating the latest version is too much work for me, and a work
        > > that needs to be redone with each and every new version...
        > >
        > > For the moment being, I wait for more informations about what could be
        > > translated...
        > >
        > > Best regards.
        > >
        > > --- In
        pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "kernelmsru"
        > > <lightangel@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello,
        > > >
        > > > I applyed long ago for the french translation, but some events
        > > > prevented me from beiging able to have enought time to make ant
        > > > translation. In this way I'd like to apologize for this delay.
        > > > Second thing, I think I can manage to have some hours to do this
        > > > translation. Which means I would like to syncronise my work with
        > > > Philippe. Next lines are in french for an easier communication
        with him.
        > > >
        > > > Bonjour,
        > > >
        > > > Donc je voulais savoir ce que je pouvais encore apporter (je
        crois que
        > > > tu as déja bien avancé) sur le projet de traduction en français.
        Je te
        > > > propose donc soit on continue les conversations à ce sujet via le
        > > > groupe de discussion, ou bien par e-mail ou par messagerie
        instentanée.
        > > > Comme tu le désir.
        > > >
        > > > Lightangel
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • kernelmsru
        My programmer skills are near the absolute zero but if I may suggest : can t we use Gettext Portable Object (under GNU licence)? This would decrease
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 1, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          My programmer skills are near the absolute zero but if I may
          suggest : can't we use Gettext Portable Object (under GNU licence)?
          This would decrease translators' work.

          Once I've corrected mistakes into the I18N_FR what should I do with
          it ? Do I have to translate the sedbasefile too ?

          Best regards,

          --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com, "tymophil" <tymophil@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I think you summarized my problem Alvise...
          >
          > I have done lot of work for the 5.8.1 version, only to find that it
          > was to redone for the next one, then again for the next... I gave
          up,
          > and still use the 5.8.1 version imperfect as it is.
          >
          > I thought that the new appraoch with KEY tag would be better, but it
          > is not... The data sets files need much, too much, update and all
          too
          > often.
          >
          > And all informations in other locations are not translated at all.
          >
          > I really think we *need* a new approach.
          >
          > Not being a technical guy, I cannot say if your proposal is the best
          > method. But the present one leads nowhere, in my humble opinion.
          Even
          > the files I did a few months ago need an update... Having translated
          > data sets along the other ones is a mistake, in my opinion.
          >
          > Best regards
          >
          > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com, "Alvise Nicoletti"
          > <alvise.nicoletti@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Sorry guys... I was talking with Ludovic Fierville about
          translating all
          > > this stuff in Italian.
          > >
          > > Are you really using that text-editing method to translate stuff?
          Isn't
          > > really very un-reliable?
          > >
          > > 1) Doing this work, makes all very un-usable in the future, cause
          the
          > > translations are "hardcoded" into files that "one-day-may-change"
          > and can be
          > > personalized.
          > >
          > > 2) Doing this work, makes the translation a one-way translation
          > > (english-french, english-italian, and so on) so every dataset
          must be
          > > translated in a different text file containing only one language.
          > >
          > > 3) It must be done "at hand" and the procedure can't be automized.
          > >
          > > Why can't I do a simple php script that generates datasets using
          > variables
          > > instead of strings?
          > >
          > > So: the php script can take the strings from a database, the
          > database could
          > > have this structure:
          > > Table languages:
          > > COLUMN LANG_KEY-> 1,2,3,4 and so on
          > > COLUMN LANGUAGE-> official, english, italian, french, and so on
          > >
          > > Table Translations:
          > > COLUMN TRANS_KEY -> 1,2,3,4 and so on
          > > COLUMN WORD -> strength, strength, forza, force
          > > COLUMN LANG_KEY -> 1,2,3,4
          > >
          > > And so on with every word meaning (word meaning doesn't means
          word) in
          > > Dungeons&Dragons.
          > >
          > > We can easily do a script to generate automatically vocabularies
          for
          > > everything in that way, and change the wrong-translated words
          (like
          > feats
          > > and skills that something changes between english and translation)
          > with our
          > > hands in a second round.
          > >
          > > In this way we will "create" something... in the other way I
          think that
          > > you're just doing a work that have no future :D (or will cost a
          lot
          > of work
          > > to be mantained).
          > >
          > > Of course we will do php pages that will generate translated
          > datasets for
          > > everything... it's really easy to do that and a lot of stuff can
          be
          > taken
          > > from the excel files downloadable in internet. I got excel files
          that
          > > translate all feats and skills from english to italian, with such
          a
          > database
          > > we could just put them into the tables and enjoy the work done
          for every
          > > dynamic-generated dataset.
          > >
          > > Call me if you want some coding in that direction... in other
          cases,
          > I'm not
          > > going to translate in Italian PcGen datasets like this, I think
          it's
          > a waste
          > > of time cause the work is not usable again in the future.
          > >
          > > p.s. Instead of using php (or any other web based way) to generate
          > > dinamically the datasets, we could just give to pcgen a database
          and
          > make
          > > him connect through odbc, or maybe give to him directly xml
          generated by
          > > something else (like java of course).
          > >
          > >
          > > 2007/3/29, tymophil <tymophil@>:
          > > >
          > > > Hi kernelmsru,
          > > >
          > > > I already translated all that was to be translated in the
          I18N.zip
          > > > file. You can get the translated file in the files section.
          > > >
          > > > There are, obviously, other files to translate, but I don't
          know which
          > > > should be translated at this stage... In order to have a
          translated
          > > > file working fine with PCGen, it needs to have certain tags
          that are
          > > > specifically aimed at internalisation, and very few files seem
          to have
          > > > such tags enabled, if I unsderstood right...
          > > >
          > > > In fact, even the files in the present I18N.zip need reworking,
          as
          > > > they contain deprecated syntax and tags... A new version would
          be
          > > > nice, along with files about monsters.
          > > >
          > > > It would be nice to have the files within the PCGen.jar file :
          > > > LanguageBundle.properties (the files that translate the software
          > > > interface). But as the file is within the jar file, it is very
          painful
          > > > to translate it and test it. Because sometimes the context just
          means
          > > > that a litteral translation would give weird results.
          > > >
          > > > I would also like to have a way to translate safely the files
          within
          > > > the the system/GameModes...
          > > >
          > > > There is also an issue with the sorting of the lists for skills
          and
          > > > gear (at least) : avery annoying problem.
          > > >
          > > > There is also an issue with some files that don't support UTF-8
          format
          > > > too well, I just stumbled on the rsrd_races__animals.lst file
          that
          > > > doesn't like the first line, and has a . added at the beginning
          of the
          > > > first line...
          > > >
          > > > Be also aware that, if I understood correctly, some information
          won't
          > > > be translated at all, at least in the near future, such as the
          > > > duration of spells, as this information is used internally.
          > > >
          > > > So for the moment being, I still use the very imperfect 5.8.1
          PC Gen,
          > > > as translating the latest version is too much work for me, and
          a work
          > > > that needs to be redone with each and every new version...
          > > >
          > > > For the moment being, I wait for more informations about what
          could be
          > > > translated...
          > > >
          > > > Best regards.
          > > >
          > > > --- In
          > pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%
          40yahoogroups.com>,
          > > > "kernelmsru"
          > > > <lightangel@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Hello,
          > > > >
          > > > > I applyed long ago for the french translation, but some events
          > > > > prevented me from beiging able to have enought time to make
          ant
          > > > > translation. In this way I'd like to apologize for this delay.
          > > > > Second thing, I think I can manage to have some hours to do
          this
          > > > > translation. Which means I would like to syncronise my work
          with
          > > > > Philippe. Next lines are in french for an easier communication
          > with him.
          > > > >
          > > > > Bonjour,
          > > > >
          > > > > Donc je voulais savoir ce que je pouvais encore apporter (je
          > crois que
          > > > > tu as déja bien avancé) sur le projet de traduction en
          français.
          > Je te
          > > > > propose donc soit on continue les conversations à ce sujet
          via le
          > > > > groupe de discussion, ou bien par e-mail ou par messagerie
          > instentanée.
          > > > > Comme tu le désir.
          > > > >
          > > > > Lightangel
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
        • tymophil
          ... Make sure to send me the corrected file along with hints on what I did wrong. Thanks.
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 1, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com, "kernelmsru"
            <lightangel@...> wrote:
            >
            > My programmer skills are near the absolute zero but if I may
            > suggest : can't we use Gettext Portable Object (under GNU licence)?
            > This would decrease translators' work.
            >
            > Once I've corrected mistakes into the I18N_FR what should I do with
            > it ? Do I have to translate the sedbasefile too ?

            Make sure to send me the corrected file along with hints on what I did
            wrong.

            Thanks.

            > Best regards,
            >
            > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com, "tymophil" <tymophil@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > I think you summarized my problem Alvise...
            > >
            > > I have done lot of work for the 5.8.1 version, only to find that it
            > > was to redone for the next one, then again for the next... I gave
            > up,
            > > and still use the 5.8.1 version imperfect as it is.
            > >
            > > I thought that the new appraoch with KEY tag would be better, but it
            > > is not... The data sets files need much, too much, update and all
            > too
            > > often.
            > >
            > > And all informations in other locations are not translated at all.
            > >
            > > I really think we *need* a new approach.
            > >
            > > Not being a technical guy, I cannot say if your proposal is the best
            > > method. But the present one leads nowhere, in my humble opinion.
            > Even
            > > the files I did a few months ago need an update... Having translated
            > > data sets along the other ones is a mistake, in my opinion.
            > >
            > > Best regards
            > >
            > > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com, "Alvise Nicoletti"
            > > <alvise.nicoletti@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Sorry guys... I was talking with Ludovic Fierville about
            > translating all
            > > > this stuff in Italian.
            > > >
            > > > Are you really using that text-editing method to translate stuff?
            > Isn't
            > > > really very un-reliable?
            > > >
            > > > 1) Doing this work, makes all very un-usable in the future, cause
            > the
            > > > translations are "hardcoded" into files that "one-day-may-change"
            > > and can be
            > > > personalized.
            > > >
            > > > 2) Doing this work, makes the translation a one-way translation
            > > > (english-french, english-italian, and so on) so every dataset
            > must be
            > > > translated in a different text file containing only one language.
            > > >
            > > > 3) It must be done "at hand" and the procedure can't be automized.
            > > >
            > > > Why can't I do a simple php script that generates datasets using
            > > variables
            > > > instead of strings?
            > > >
            > > > So: the php script can take the strings from a database, the
            > > database could
            > > > have this structure:
            > > > Table languages:
            > > > COLUMN LANG_KEY-> 1,2,3,4 and so on
            > > > COLUMN LANGUAGE-> official, english, italian, french, and so on
            > > >
            > > > Table Translations:
            > > > COLUMN TRANS_KEY -> 1,2,3,4 and so on
            > > > COLUMN WORD -> strength, strength, forza, force
            > > > COLUMN LANG_KEY -> 1,2,3,4
            > > >
            > > > And so on with every word meaning (word meaning doesn't means
            > word) in
            > > > Dungeons&Dragons.
            > > >
            > > > We can easily do a script to generate automatically vocabularies
            > for
            > > > everything in that way, and change the wrong-translated words
            > (like
            > > feats
            > > > and skills that something changes between english and translation)
            > > with our
            > > > hands in a second round.
            > > >
            > > > In this way we will "create" something... in the other way I
            > think that
            > > > you're just doing a work that have no future :D (or will cost a
            > lot
            > > of work
            > > > to be mantained).
            > > >
            > > > Of course we will do php pages that will generate translated
            > > datasets for
            > > > everything... it's really easy to do that and a lot of stuff can
            > be
            > > taken
            > > > from the excel files downloadable in internet. I got excel files
            > that
            > > > translate all feats and skills from english to italian, with such
            > a
            > > database
            > > > we could just put them into the tables and enjoy the work done
            > for every
            > > > dynamic-generated dataset.
            > > >
            > > > Call me if you want some coding in that direction... in other
            > cases,
            > > I'm not
            > > > going to translate in Italian PcGen datasets like this, I think
            > it's
            > > a waste
            > > > of time cause the work is not usable again in the future.
            > > >
            > > > p.s. Instead of using php (or any other web based way) to generate
            > > > dinamically the datasets, we could just give to pcgen a database
            > and
            > > make
            > > > him connect through odbc, or maybe give to him directly xml
            > generated by
            > > > something else (like java of course).
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > 2007/3/29, tymophil <tymophil@>:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi kernelmsru,
            > > > >
            > > > > I already translated all that was to be translated in the
            > I18N.zip
            > > > > file. You can get the translated file in the files section.
            > > > >
            > > > > There are, obviously, other files to translate, but I don't
            > know which
            > > > > should be translated at this stage... In order to have a
            > translated
            > > > > file working fine with PCGen, it needs to have certain tags
            > that are
            > > > > specifically aimed at internalisation, and very few files seem
            > to have
            > > > > such tags enabled, if I unsderstood right...
            > > > >
            > > > > In fact, even the files in the present I18N.zip need reworking,
            > as
            > > > > they contain deprecated syntax and tags... A new version would
            > be
            > > > > nice, along with files about monsters.
            > > > >
            > > > > It would be nice to have the files within the PCGen.jar file :
            > > > > LanguageBundle.properties (the files that translate the software
            > > > > interface). But as the file is within the jar file, it is very
            > painful
            > > > > to translate it and test it. Because sometimes the context just
            > means
            > > > > that a litteral translation would give weird results.
            > > > >
            > > > > I would also like to have a way to translate safely the files
            > within
            > > > > the the system/GameModes...
            > > > >
            > > > > There is also an issue with the sorting of the lists for skills
            > and
            > > > > gear (at least) : avery annoying problem.
            > > > >
            > > > > There is also an issue with some files that don't support UTF-8
            > format
            > > > > too well, I just stumbled on the rsrd_races__animals.lst file
            > that
            > > > > doesn't like the first line, and has a . added at the beginning
            > of the
            > > > > first line...
            > > > >
            > > > > Be also aware that, if I understood correctly, some information
            > won't
            > > > > be translated at all, at least in the near future, such as the
            > > > > duration of spells, as this information is used internally.
            > > > >
            > > > > So for the moment being, I still use the very imperfect 5.8.1
            > PC Gen,
            > > > > as translating the latest version is too much work for me, and
            > a work
            > > > > that needs to be redone with each and every new version...
            > > > >
            > > > > For the moment being, I wait for more informations about what
            > could be
            > > > > translated...
            > > > >
            > > > > Best regards.
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In
            > > pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%
            > 40yahoogroups.com>,
            > > > > "kernelmsru"
            > > > > <lightangel@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hello,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I applyed long ago for the french translation, but some events
            > > > > > prevented me from beiging able to have enought time to make
            > ant
            > > > > > translation. In this way I'd like to apologize for this delay.
            > > > > > Second thing, I think I can manage to have some hours to do
            > this
            > > > > > translation. Which means I would like to syncronise my work
            > with
            > > > > > Philippe. Next lines are in french for an easier communication
            > > with him.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Bonjour,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Donc je voulais savoir ce que je pouvais encore apporter (je
            > > crois que
            > > > > > tu as déja bien avancé) sur le projet de traduction en
            > français.
            > > Je te
            > > > > > propose donc soit on continue les conversations à ce sujet
            > via le
            > > > > > groupe de discussion, ou bien par e-mail ou par messagerie
            > > instentanée.
            > > > > > Comme tu le désir.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Lightangel
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Alvise Nicoletti
            I am a programmer and i used java for a lot of years, however, I don t want to make any kind of revolution here in PcGen. I was just guessing a new and better
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 2, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              I am a programmer and i used java for a lot of years, however, I don't want
              to make any kind of revolution here in PcGen. I was just guessing a new and
              better approach to the translation methods... cause before translating
              Italian I want to ensure that my work worth it, I can't edit the datasets
              every time pc gen came out with a new version...

              The recent mail of Karianna makes me think that probably I have to
              write-propose less and take more responsibilities...
              ... I'm still not an official member of the PcGen team, however, I'm
              thinking about it...

              If there are other channels to talk with Aaron, make me know, until that,
              I'll continue to write at this mailing list, and, if you want, I can do a
              little project (coding it too) to make you understand better what means to
              generate static datasets "dynamically" using variables instead of constants.
              In a second time, we can assign to the variables the data that we take from
              a database, in the correct translation.

              That could be really easy to make an output demo datasheet, and a web page
              to input data from... if you want I can make it in a week, just to test it
              (I work a lot so I don't have much time).

              The only think I still have not understand is if it is legal to translate
              D&D stuff, even if the english source is rsd.

              Bye

              2007/4/1, tymophil <tymophil@...>:
              >
              > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > "kernelmsru"
              > <lightangel@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > My programmer skills are near the absolute zero but if I may
              > > suggest : can't we use Gettext Portable Object (under GNU licence)?
              > > This would decrease translators' work.
              > >
              > > Once I've corrected mistakes into the I18N_FR what should I do with
              > > it ? Do I have to translate the sedbasefile too ?
              >
              > Make sure to send me the corrected file along with hints on what I did
              > wrong.
              >
              > Thanks.
              >
              >
              > > Best regards,
              > >
              > > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > "tymophil" <tymophil@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I think you summarized my problem Alvise...
              > > >
              > > > I have done lot of work for the 5.8.1 version, only to find that it
              > > > was to redone for the next one, then again for the next... I gave
              > > up,
              > > > and still use the 5.8.1 version imperfect as it is.
              > > >
              > > > I thought that the new appraoch with KEY tag would be better, but it
              > > > is not... The data sets files need much, too much, update and all
              > > too
              > > > often.
              > > >
              > > > And all informations in other locations are not translated at all.
              > > >
              > > > I really think we *need* a new approach.
              > > >
              > > > Not being a technical guy, I cannot say if your proposal is the best
              > > > method. But the present one leads nowhere, in my humble opinion.
              > > Even
              > > > the files I did a few months ago need an update... Having translated
              > > > data sets along the other ones is a mistake, in my opinion.
              > > >
              > > > Best regards
              > > >
              > > > --- In pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > "Alvise Nicoletti"
              > > > <alvise.nicoletti@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Sorry guys... I was talking with Ludovic Fierville about
              > > translating all
              > > > > this stuff in Italian.
              > > > >
              > > > > Are you really using that text-editing method to translate stuff?
              > > Isn't
              > > > > really very un-reliable?
              > > > >
              > > > > 1) Doing this work, makes all very un-usable in the future, cause
              > > the
              > > > > translations are "hardcoded" into files that "one-day-may-change"
              > > > and can be
              > > > > personalized.
              > > > >
              > > > > 2) Doing this work, makes the translation a one-way translation
              > > > > (english-french, english-italian, and so on) so every dataset
              > > must be
              > > > > translated in a different text file containing only one language.
              > > > >
              > > > > 3) It must be done "at hand" and the procedure can't be automized.
              > > > >
              > > > > Why can't I do a simple php script that generates datasets using
              > > > variables
              > > > > instead of strings?
              > > > >
              > > > > So: the php script can take the strings from a database, the
              > > > database could
              > > > > have this structure:
              > > > > Table languages:
              > > > > COLUMN LANG_KEY-> 1,2,3,4 and so on
              > > > > COLUMN LANGUAGE-> official, english, italian, french, and so on
              > > > >
              > > > > Table Translations:
              > > > > COLUMN TRANS_KEY -> 1,2,3,4 and so on
              > > > > COLUMN WORD -> strength, strength, forza, force
              > > > > COLUMN LANG_KEY -> 1,2,3,4
              > > > >
              > > > > And so on with every word meaning (word meaning doesn't means
              > > word) in
              > > > > Dungeons&Dragons.
              > > > >
              > > > > We can easily do a script to generate automatically vocabularies
              > > for
              > > > > everything in that way, and change the wrong-translated words
              > > (like
              > > > feats
              > > > > and skills that something changes between english and translation)
              > > > with our
              > > > > hands in a second round.
              > > > >
              > > > > In this way we will "create" something... in the other way I
              > > think that
              > > > > you're just doing a work that have no future :D (or will cost a
              > > lot
              > > > of work
              > > > > to be mantained).
              > > > >
              > > > > Of course we will do php pages that will generate translated
              > > > datasets for
              > > > > everything... it's really easy to do that and a lot of stuff can
              > > be
              > > > taken
              > > > > from the excel files downloadable in internet. I got excel files
              > > that
              > > > > translate all feats and skills from english to italian, with such
              > > a
              > > > database
              > > > > we could just put them into the tables and enjoy the work done
              > > for every
              > > > > dynamic-generated dataset.
              > > > >
              > > > > Call me if you want some coding in that direction... in other
              > > cases,
              > > > I'm not
              > > > > going to translate in Italian PcGen datasets like this, I think
              > > it's
              > > > a waste
              > > > > of time cause the work is not usable again in the future.
              > > > >
              > > > > p.s. Instead of using php (or any other web based way) to generate
              > > > > dinamically the datasets, we could just give to pcgen a database
              > > and
              > > > make
              > > > > him connect through odbc, or maybe give to him directly xml
              > > generated by
              > > > > something else (like java of course).
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > 2007/3/29, tymophil <tymophil@>:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Hi kernelmsru,
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I already translated all that was to be translated in the
              > > I18N.zip
              > > > > > file. You can get the translated file in the files section.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > There are, obviously, other files to translate, but I don't
              > > know which
              > > > > > should be translated at this stage... In order to have a
              > > translated
              > > > > > file working fine with PCGen, it needs to have certain tags
              > > that are
              > > > > > specifically aimed at internalisation, and very few files seem
              > > to have
              > > > > > such tags enabled, if I unsderstood right...
              > > > > >
              > > > > > In fact, even the files in the present I18N.zip need reworking,
              > > as
              > > > > > they contain deprecated syntax and tags... A new version would
              > > be
              > > > > > nice, along with files about monsters.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > It would be nice to have the files within the PCGen.jar file :
              > > > > > LanguageBundle.properties (the files that translate the software
              > > > > > interface). But as the file is within the jar file, it is very
              > > painful
              > > > > > to translate it and test it. Because sometimes the context just
              > > means
              > > > > > that a litteral translation would give weird results.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I would also like to have a way to translate safely the files
              > > within
              > > > > > the the system/GameModes...
              > > > > >
              > > > > > There is also an issue with the sorting of the lists for skills
              > > and
              > > > > > gear (at least) : avery annoying problem.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > There is also an issue with some files that don't support UTF-8
              > > format
              > > > > > too well, I just stumbled on the rsrd_races__animals.lst file
              > > that
              > > > > > doesn't like the first line, and has a . added at the beginning
              > > of the
              > > > > > first line...
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Be also aware that, if I understood correctly, some information
              > > won't
              > > > > > be translated at all, at least in the near future, such as the
              > > > > > duration of spells, as this information is used internally.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > So for the moment being, I still use the very imperfect 5.8.1
              > > PC Gen,
              > > > > > as translating the latest version is too much work for me, and
              > > a work
              > > > > > that needs to be redone with each and every new version...
              > > > > >
              > > > > > For the moment being, I wait for more informations about what
              > > could be
              > > > > > translated...
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Best regards.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In
              > > > pcgen_international@yahoogroups.com<pcgen_international%40yahoogroups.com>
              > <pcgen_international%
              > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
              > > > > > "kernelmsru"
              > > > > > <lightangel@> wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Hello,
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > I applyed long ago for the french translation, but some events
              > > > > > > prevented me from beiging able to have enought time to make
              > > ant
              > > > > > > translation. In this way I'd like to apologize for this delay.
              > > > > > > Second thing, I think I can manage to have some hours to do
              > > this
              > > > > > > translation. Which means I would like to syncronise my work
              > > with
              > > > > > > Philippe. Next lines are in french for an easier communication
              > > > with him.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Bonjour,
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Donc je voulais savoir ce que je pouvais encore apporter (je
              > > > crois que
              > > > > > > tu as d�ja bien avanc�) sur le projet de traduction en
              > > fran�ais.
              > > > Je te
              > > > > > > propose donc soit on continue les conversations � ce sujet
              > > via le
              > > > > > > groupe de discussion, ou bien par e-mail ou par messagerie
              > > > instentan�e.
              > > > > > > Comme tu le d�sir.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Lightangel
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Tir Gwaith
              ... Under the OGL, yes. Using SRD/RSRD/MSRD, translations are derivative works and can be used so long as the OGL is followed correctly (citing source,
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 2, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                > The only think I still have not understand is if it is legal to translate
                > D&D stuff, even if the english source is rsd.

                Under the OGL, yes. Using SRD/RSRD/MSRD, translations are 'derivative
                works' and can be used so long as the OGL is followed correctly
                (citing source, etc.)

                --
                Tir Gwaith
                PCGen LST Chimp
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