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Re: [pcgen_international] Feat - Skills translation

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  • Ludovic Fierville
    Hello Alvise First, my apologies for not answering sooner. You can find a version of the basic RSRD here : http://
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 29, 2007
      Hello Alvise

      First, my apologies for not answering sooner.

      You can find a version of the basic RSRD here : http://
      tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_international/files/
      (file I18N.zip)

      This file has placeholders for translation (items to translate are
      prefixed with TRANSLATE_

      From the work Philippe has done on the french translation, it seems
      all the files don't hace these placeholders, but I seem to recall
      it's quite simple to figure what should or shouldn't be translated.

      If you plan to include accents, make sure the files are in UTF-8,
      it's probable the Latin-1 pagecode can't handle them well.

      And you will need to use a recent apha version of PCGen, the last one
      should be good.

      The point of this file is the KEY tag, which allow to change the name
      displayed in PCGen without messing with relations in the data and how
      PCGen handle them.

      There are some issues with translation right now, that Philippe
      pointed out in a recent message, mainly the interface of PCGen (quite
      well handled for French, with some typos though, I don't know if
      Italian is handled at all) and the outpusheets.

      I don't think you'll have major problems since it's mostly details,
      but if you have non-english speaking/reading players it can be annoying.

      I'll have a bit more time for PCGen in the next 3 weeks (holidays are
      here to work on non-work stuff :) ) and I hope I'll be able to look
      at the remaing RSRD, and hopefully the outputsheets. And if I can
      learn a bit of Java, I'll try to look at the GUI issues too.


      Because if Karianna's dream to be Master of the World (of PC
      generators for a start) we will need to have PCGen translated in as
      many languages as possible.

      Ludo

      Le 27 mars 07 à 21:06, Alvise Nicoletti a écrit :

      > Hi...
      >
      > What files I have to change to see a character sheet with
      > translated feats
      > and skills?
      >
      > I'd like to have them translated in my language and ordered by theyr
      > translated name.
      >
      > p.s. the language is italian
    • Alvise Nicoletti
      Mhh... so: 1) It is not possible to directly translate the data I already have on my pcgen data folder? 2) I have to use this rsrd set of data and translate
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 29, 2007
        Mhh... so:
        1) It is not possible to directly translate the data I already have on my
        pcgen data folder?
        2) I have to use this rsrd set of data and translate this?
        3) The 6-7 characters I actually use includes a lot of data sets, how to
        convert them into this new (and i think smaller ) data set?
        4) I only have to change the words after the TRANSLATE_ string? What about
        spaces (" ") ?
        5) Is it good to translate in this way...? It seems that I'm going to do a
        not-easy-to-reuse translation here... am I wrong?
        6) Isn't there any translator script? I got already feats and skills an a
        lot of equipment translated into an excel file with an english and an
        italian column for every word... maybe I can make it in java myself, but if
        you have something already done it could be useful.
        A php-web script should be good too: once we have changed the "variable
        words" into variables, the only thing that we miss is a dictionary database
        for every D&D word or set of words... have you never thinked about that?

        2007/3/29, Ludovic Fierville <lfierville@...>:
        >
        > Hello Alvise
        >
        > First, my apologies for not answering sooner.
        >
        > You can find a version of the basic RSRD here : http://
        > tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_international/files/
        > (file I18N.zip)
        >
        > This file has placeholders for translation (items to translate are
        > prefixed with TRANSLATE_
        >
        > From the work Philippe has done on the french translation, it seems
        > all the files don't hace these placeholders, but I seem to recall
        > it's quite simple to figure what should or shouldn't be translated.
        >
        > If you plan to include accents, make sure the files are in UTF-8,
        > it's probable the Latin-1 pagecode can't handle them well.
        >
        > And you will need to use a recent apha version of PCGen, the last one
        > should be good.
        >
        > The point of this file is the KEY tag, which allow to change the name
        > displayed in PCGen without messing with relations in the data and how
        > PCGen handle them.
        >
        > There are some issues with translation right now, that Philippe
        > pointed out in a recent message, mainly the interface of PCGen (quite
        > well handled for French, with some typos though, I don't know if
        > Italian is handled at all) and the outpusheets.
        >
        > I don't think you'll have major problems since it's mostly details,
        > but if you have non-english speaking/reading players it can be annoying.
        >
        > I'll have a bit more time for PCGen in the next 3 weeks (holidays are
        > here to work on non-work stuff :) ) and I hope I'll be able to look
        > at the remaing RSRD, and hopefully the outputsheets. And if I can
        > learn a bit of Java, I'll try to look at the GUI issues too.
        >
        > Because if Karianna's dream to be Master of the World (of PC
        > generators for a start) we will need to have PCGen translated in as
        > many languages as possible.
        >
        > Ludo
        >
        > Le 27 mars 07 à 21:06, Alvise Nicoletti a écrit :
        >
        >
        > > Hi...
        > >
        > > What files I have to change to see a character sheet with
        > > translated feats
        > > and skills?
        > >
        > > I'd like to have them translated in my language and ordered by theyr
        > > translated name.
        > >
        > > p.s. the language is italian
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ludovic Fierville
        ... It s possible of course, but could be more difficult. You would have to translate each and every word in all the files. With a KEY tag, you just translate
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 30, 2007
          > Mhh... so:
          > 1) It is not possible to directly translate the data I already have
          > on my
          > pcgen data folder?

          It's possible of course, but could be more difficult. You would have
          to translate each and every word in all the files. With a KEY tag,
          you just translate what will be displayed, all the links between
          files work in english.

          Example : if you translate a skill, you will have to modify the
          classes file if this skill is a class skill (1st method) ; while with
          a KEY tag, you just have to translate it once in the skills file.

          > 2) I have to use this rsrd set of data and translate this?

          Not absolutely required, just easier. cf. above :)

          > 3) The 6-7 characters I actually use includes a lot of data sets,
          > how to
          > convert them into this new (and i think smaller ) data set?

          You could create your own dataset :
          - copying all the content from the same type (classes, skills, feats,
          etc.) in a single lst file per type
          - creating a pcc file to link all these lst files in one dataset

          > 4) I only have to change the words after the TRANSLATE_ string?
          > What about
          > spaces (" ") ?

          You should translate the whole TRANSLATE_xxx word (don't leave the
          TRANSLATE_, it would be strange to have it before every item in
          PCGen :) )

          > 5) Is it good to translate in this way...? It seems that I'm going
          > to do a
          > not-easy-to-reuse translation here... am I wrong?

          Well, it's quite difficult to find a *good* way, I think this one is
          the less painful. I fear the file is not really up to date with the
          current datasets.

          When all the datasets will have the KEY tag, it will be possible to
          use .MOD to create translation datasets without touching the english
          files (while using them).

          At least that's how I hope it will work, I'm no coder or member of
          the team even, just your average PCGen user :)

          > 6) Isn't there any translator script? I got already feats and
          > skills an a
          > lot of equipment translated into an excel file with an english and an
          > italian column for every word... maybe I can make it in java
          > myself, but if
          > you have something already done it could be useful.
          > A php-web script should be good too: once we have changed the
          > "variable
          > words" into variables, the only thing that we miss is a dictionary
          > database
          > for every D&D word or set of words... have you never thinked about
          > that?

          It's an excellent idea. I'm not aware of such a script ; if you think
          you can do it then please go, it will certainly help a lot of people
          around.

          >
          > 2007/3/29, Ludovic Fierville <lfierville@...>:
          >>
          >> Hello Alvise
          >>
          >> First, my apologies for not answering sooner.
          >>
          >> You can find a version of the basic RSRD here : http://
          >> tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_international/files/
          >> (file I18N.zip)
          >>
          >> This file has placeholders for translation (items to translate are
          >> prefixed with TRANSLATE_
          >>
          >> From the work Philippe has done on the french translation, it seems
          >> all the files don't hace these placeholders, but I seem to recall
          >> it's quite simple to figure what should or shouldn't be translated.
          >>
          >> If you plan to include accents, make sure the files are in UTF-8,
          >> it's probable the Latin-1 pagecode can't handle them well.
          >>
          >> And you will need to use a recent apha version of PCGen, the last one
          >> should be good.
          >>
          >> The point of this file is the KEY tag, which allow to change the name
          >> displayed in PCGen without messing with relations in the data and how
          >> PCGen handle them.
          >>
          >> There are some issues with translation right now, that Philippe
          >> pointed out in a recent message, mainly the interface of PCGen (quite
          >> well handled for French, with some typos though, I don't know if
          >> Italian is handled at all) and the outpusheets.
          >>
          >> I don't think you'll have major problems since it's mostly details,
          >> but if you have non-english speaking/reading players it can be
          >> annoying.
          >>
          >> I'll have a bit more time for PCGen in the next 3 weeks (holidays are
          >> here to work on non-work stuff :) ) and I hope I'll be able to look
          >> at the remaing RSRD, and hopefully the outputsheets. And if I can
          >> learn a bit of Java, I'll try to look at the GUI issues too.
          >>
          >> Because if Karianna's dream to be Master of the World (of PC
          >> generators for a start) we will need to have PCGen translated in as
          >> many languages as possible.
          >>
          >> Ludo
          >>
          >> Le 27 mars 07 à 21:06, Alvise Nicoletti a écrit :
          >>
          >>
          >>> Hi...
          >>>
          >>> What files I have to change to see a character sheet with
          >>> translated feats
          >>> and skills?
          >>>
          >>> I'd like to have them translated in my language and ordered by theyr
          >>> translated name.
          >>>
          >>> p.s. the language is italian
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Alvise Nicoletti
          I made a mail that I sent to the internationalization group, talking about our discussion. I hope that you will accept my idea, it would be so fast to make and
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 30, 2007
            I made a mail that I sent to the internationalization group, talking about
            our discussion.

            I hope that you will accept my idea, it would be so fast to make and easy to
            use.

            2007/3/30, Ludovic Fierville <lfierville@...>:
            >
            >
            > > Mhh... so:
            > > 1) It is not possible to directly translate the data I already have
            > > on my
            > > pcgen data folder?
            >
            > It's possible of course, but could be more difficult. You would have
            > to translate each and every word in all the files. With a KEY tag,
            > you just translate what will be displayed, all the links between
            > files work in english.
            >
            > Example : if you translate a skill, you will have to modify the
            > classes file if this skill is a class skill (1st method) ; while with
            > a KEY tag, you just have to translate it once in the skills file.
            >
            > > 2) I have to use this rsrd set of data and translate this?
            >
            > Not absolutely required, just easier. cf. above :)
            >
            > > 3) The 6-7 characters I actually use includes a lot of data sets,
            > > how to
            > > convert them into this new (and i think smaller ) data set?
            >
            > You could create your own dataset :
            > - copying all the content from the same type (classes, skills, feats,
            > etc.) in a single lst file per type
            > - creating a pcc file to link all these lst files in one dataset
            >
            > > 4) I only have to change the words after the TRANSLATE_ string?
            > > What about
            > > spaces (" ") ?
            >
            > You should translate the whole TRANSLATE_xxx word (don't leave the
            > TRANSLATE_, it would be strange to have it before every item in
            > PCGen :) )
            >
            > > 5) Is it good to translate in this way...? It seems that I'm going
            > > to do a
            > > not-easy-to-reuse translation here... am I wrong?
            >
            > Well, it's quite difficult to find a *good* way, I think this one is
            > the less painful. I fear the file is not really up to date with the
            > current datasets.
            >
            > When all the datasets will have the KEY tag, it will be possible to
            > use .MOD to create translation datasets without touching the english
            > files (while using them).
            >
            > At least that's how I hope it will work, I'm no coder or member of
            > the team even, just your average PCGen user :)
            >
            > > 6) Isn't there any translator script? I got already feats and
            > > skills an a
            > > lot of equipment translated into an excel file with an english and an
            > > italian column for every word... maybe I can make it in java
            > > myself, but if
            > > you have something already done it could be useful.
            > > A php-web script should be good too: once we have changed the
            > > "variable
            > > words" into variables, the only thing that we miss is a dictionary
            > > database
            > > for every D&D word or set of words... have you never thinked about
            > > that?
            >
            > It's an excellent idea. I'm not aware of such a script ; if you think
            > you can do it then please go, it will certainly help a lot of people
            > around.
            >
            >
            > >
            > > 2007/3/29, Ludovic Fierville <lfierville@...<lfierville%40gmail.com>
            > >:
            > >>
            > >> Hello Alvise
            > >>
            > >> First, my apologies for not answering sooner.
            > >>
            > >> You can find a version of the basic RSRD here : http://
            > >> tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_international/files/
            > >> (file I18N.zip)
            > >>
            > >> This file has placeholders for translation (items to translate are
            > >> prefixed with TRANSLATE_
            > >>
            > >> From the work Philippe has done on the french translation, it seems
            > >> all the files don't hace these placeholders, but I seem to recall
            > >> it's quite simple to figure what should or shouldn't be translated.
            > >>
            > >> If you plan to include accents, make sure the files are in UTF-8,
            > >> it's probable the Latin-1 pagecode can't handle them well.
            > >>
            > >> And you will need to use a recent apha version of PCGen, the last one
            > >> should be good.
            > >>
            > >> The point of this file is the KEY tag, which allow to change the name
            > >> displayed in PCGen without messing with relations in the data and how
            > >> PCGen handle them.
            > >>
            > >> There are some issues with translation right now, that Philippe
            > >> pointed out in a recent message, mainly the interface of PCGen (quite
            > >> well handled for French, with some typos though, I don't know if
            > >> Italian is handled at all) and the outpusheets.
            > >>
            > >> I don't think you'll have major problems since it's mostly details,
            > >> but if you have non-english speaking/reading players it can be
            > >> annoying.
            > >>
            > >> I'll have a bit more time for PCGen in the next 3 weeks (holidays are
            > >> here to work on non-work stuff :) ) and I hope I'll be able to look
            > >> at the remaing RSRD, and hopefully the outputsheets. And if I can
            > >> learn a bit of Java, I'll try to look at the GUI issues too.
            > >>
            > >> Because if Karianna's dream to be Master of the World (of PC
            > >> generators for a start) we will need to have PCGen translated in as
            > >> many languages as possible.
            > >>
            > >> Ludo
            > >>
            > >> Le 27 mars 07 à 21:06, Alvise Nicoletti a écrit :
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>> Hi...
            > >>>
            > >>> What files I have to change to see a character sheet with
            > >>> translated feats
            > >>> and skills?
            > >>>
            > >>> I'd like to have them translated in my language and ordered by theyr
            > >>> translated name.
            > >>>
            > >>> p.s. the language is italian
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ludovic Fierville
            I agree and I think it is an excellent idea. However, we have to keep in mind the legal aspect of the problem. I m not certain that translations are compatible
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 30, 2007
              I agree and I think it is an excellent idea.

              However, we have to keep in mind the legal aspect of the problem. I'm not
              certain that translations are compatible with the OGL ; I saw a message
              recently about this topic which didn't have a decisive conclusion (if I
              remember well).

              If I'm not mistaken, your solution will provide, in the end, one dataset per
              language, right ? Or did you think of an "on the fly" translation ? If so,
              major code changes would be necessary.

              I would also like to hear what boomer70 (Aaron) has to say about it, I think
              he is our "inside man" in the PCGen team :) Unfortunately, he seems to be
              quite busy with "real life" stuff.

              One last thing, I think the datasets are in turmoil at the moment
              (deprecated tags, ability to be implemented and so on). It would be great if
              we could propose some translated datasets (whatever the method used) for,
              say, the 5.12 release :)

              Ludo

              2007/3/30, Alvise Nicoletti <alvise.nicoletti@...>:
              >
              > I made a mail that I sent to the internationalization group, talking about
              > our discussion.
              >
              > I hope that you will accept my idea, it would be so fast to make and easy
              > to
              > use.
              >
              > 2007/3/30, Ludovic Fierville <lfierville@...>:
              > >
              > >
              > > > Mhh... so:
              > > > 1) It is not possible to directly translate the data I already have
              > > > on my
              > > > pcgen data folder?
              > >
              > > It's possible of course, but could be more difficult. You would have
              > > to translate each and every word in all the files. With a KEY tag,
              > > you just translate what will be displayed, all the links between
              > > files work in english.
              > >
              > > Example : if you translate a skill, you will have to modify the
              > > classes file if this skill is a class skill (1st method) ; while with
              > > a KEY tag, you just have to translate it once in the skills file.
              > >
              > > > 2) I have to use this rsrd set of data and translate this?
              > >
              > > Not absolutely required, just easier. cf. above :)
              > >
              > > > 3) The 6-7 characters I actually use includes a lot of data sets,
              > > > how to
              > > > convert them into this new (and i think smaller ) data set?
              > >
              > > You could create your own dataset :
              > > - copying all the content from the same type (classes, skills, feats,
              > > etc.) in a single lst file per type
              > > - creating a pcc file to link all these lst files in one dataset
              > >
              > > > 4) I only have to change the words after the TRANSLATE_ string?
              > > > What about
              > > > spaces (" ") ?
              > >
              > > You should translate the whole TRANSLATE_xxx word (don't leave the
              > > TRANSLATE_, it would be strange to have it before every item in
              > > PCGen :) )
              > >
              > > > 5) Is it good to translate in this way...? It seems that I'm going
              > > > to do a
              > > > not-easy-to-reuse translation here... am I wrong?
              > >
              > > Well, it's quite difficult to find a *good* way, I think this one is
              > > the less painful. I fear the file is not really up to date with the
              > > current datasets.
              > >
              > > When all the datasets will have the KEY tag, it will be possible to
              > > use .MOD to create translation datasets without touching the english
              > > files (while using them).
              > >
              > > At least that's how I hope it will work, I'm no coder or member of
              > > the team even, just your average PCGen user :)
              > >
              > > > 6) Isn't there any translator script? I got already feats and
              > > > skills an a
              > > > lot of equipment translated into an excel file with an english and an
              > > > italian column for every word... maybe I can make it in java
              > > > myself, but if
              > > > you have something already done it could be useful.
              > > > A php-web script should be good too: once we have changed the
              > > > "variable
              > > > words" into variables, the only thing that we miss is a dictionary
              > > > database
              > > > for every D&D word or set of words... have you never thinked about
              > > > that?
              > >
              > > It's an excellent idea. I'm not aware of such a script ; if you think
              > > you can do it then please go, it will certainly help a lot of people
              > > around.
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > > 2007/3/29, Ludovic Fierville <lfierville@...
              > <lfierville%40gmail.com>
              > > >:
              > > >>
              > > >> Hello Alvise
              > > >>
              > > >> First, my apologies for not answering sooner.
              > > >>
              > > >> You can find a version of the basic RSRD here : http://
              > > >> tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_international/files/
              > > >> (file I18N.zip)
              > > >>
              > > >> This file has placeholders for translation (items to translate are
              > > >> prefixed with TRANSLATE_
              > > >>
              > > >> From the work Philippe has done on the french translation, it seems
              > > >> all the files don't hace these placeholders, but I seem to recall
              > > >> it's quite simple to figure what should or shouldn't be translated.
              > > >>
              > > >> If you plan to include accents, make sure the files are in UTF-8,
              > > >> it's probable the Latin-1 pagecode can't handle them well.
              > > >>
              > > >> And you will need to use a recent apha version of PCGen, the last one
              > > >> should be good.
              > > >>
              > > >> The point of this file is the KEY tag, which allow to change the name
              > > >> displayed in PCGen without messing with relations in the data and how
              > > >> PCGen handle them.
              > > >>
              > > >> There are some issues with translation right now, that Philippe
              > > >> pointed out in a recent message, mainly the interface of PCGen (quite
              > > >> well handled for French, with some typos though, I don't know if
              > > >> Italian is handled at all) and the outpusheets.
              > > >>
              > > >> I don't think you'll have major problems since it's mostly details,
              > > >> but if you have non-english speaking/reading players it can be
              > > >> annoying.
              > > >>
              > > >> I'll have a bit more time for PCGen in the next 3 weeks (holidays are
              > > >> here to work on non-work stuff :) ) and I hope I'll be able to look
              > > >> at the remaing RSRD, and hopefully the outputsheets. And if I can
              > > >> learn a bit of Java, I'll try to look at the GUI issues too.
              > > >>
              > > >> Because if Karianna's dream to be Master of the World (of PC
              > > >> generators for a start) we will need to have PCGen translated in as
              > > >> many languages as possible.
              > > >>
              > > >> Ludo
              > > >>
              > > >> Le 27 mars 07 à 21:06, Alvise Nicoletti a écrit :
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >>> Hi...
              > > >>>
              > > >>> What files I have to change to see a character sheet with
              > > >>> translated feats
              > > >>> and skills?
              > > >>>
              > > >>> I'd like to have them translated in my language and ordered by theyr
              > > >>> translated name.
              > > >>>
              > > >>> p.s. the language is italian
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --
              ~ Tengoku de omachisi te imasu ~


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Martijn Verburg
              ... I see someone has been reading the BoD logs :). Yes I m _very_ keen to see PCGen internationlised. It s fantastic to have you all on board, I only beg
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 31, 2007
                > Because if Karianna's dream to be Master of the World (of PC
                > generators for a start) we will need to have PCGen translated in as
                > many languages as possible.

                I see someone has been reading the BoD logs :). Yes I'm _very_ keen
                to see PCGen internationlised. It's fantastic to have you all on
                board, I only beg your patience while we try to find a backup for
                Aaron to help co-ordinate this effort :)

                Karianna
                Chair Monkey
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