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Re: [pcgen_developers] Re: Lst editor.

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  • MotorViper
    The spec (slightly updated) is now under development specs on the wiki.
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 9, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      The spec (slightly updated) is now under development specs on the wiki.

      Andrew Maitland wrote:
      > Were you logged in? You should have been able to add it as long as you
      > are logged in.
      > If not, let me know and I'll check the settings.
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > *From:* MotorViper <motorviper@...>
      > *To:* pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com
      > *Sent:* Thu, December 3, 2009 1:24:59 PM
      > *Subject:* Re: [pcgen_developers] Re: Lst editor.
      >
      > Where on the wiki do I add this, I tried under 'Development Spec' but
      > had a message that said I didn't have permission to edit the page.
      >
      > MV.
      >
      > thpr wrote:
      > >
      > > Mark,
      > >
      > > Great start, and I'm glad to see it written down to help other people
      > > follow what is being planned. However, I would echo Kar's request to
      > > have this on the Wiki.
      > >
      > > A few thoughts:
      > >
      > > 1) Overview
      > >
      > > My initial impression was that the two modes have different
      > > UI/function. Stand-alone mode edits a PCC file (can't be done today),
      > > while launched-from-PCGen mode edits the "custom object" file (which
      > > is what the editor does today).
      > >
      > > Thus, the stand-alone mode involves selecting a PCC file, while the
      > > launched-from-PCGen mode does not involve selection of a PCC or LST
      > > file (it is based off the loaded data)
      > >
      > > 2) Dialog & File Selection Area
      > >
      > > Something to think about here that I'm not sure got discussed during
      > > the code team meeting on the LST Editor: There can be a "context" to
      > > LST files.
      > >
      > > Consider this "use case":
      > >
      > > I want to create a set of files for an RSRD expansion. In that case, I
      > > need to be able to specify 3 things:
      > > 1) The PCC file I want to save into (in your dialog today)
      > > 2) The LST file I'm editing (in your dialog today)
      > > 3) The PCC file(s) serving as a "context" of the PCC file being edited.
      > >
      > > #3 is important, so that you can do things like:
      > > AUTO:FEAT|Dodge
      > >
      > > Without knowing the data is dependent upon the RSRD, you may flag
      > > "Dodge" as an error (unconstructed reference) or something that the
      > > user needs to build.
      > >
      > > So in order to be able to catch that the tokens are valid (as well as
      > > provide a list of things the user still needs to build), you will need
      > > to be able to provide context.
      > >
      > > What was initially in my head was a load screen where you define the
      > > context, PCC file and LST file, and then an edit screen. There, you
      > > could just display the PCC file and LST file (but do not allow
      > > selection of them) in the actual edit screen. In that way the edit
      > > screen can be used in both modes (one where the PCC and LST were set
      > > by the load screen, one where it's pre-determined since it was
      > > launched-from-PCGen). Don't take that as a literal requirement to do 2
      > > screens, but consider the need for context and how you might design
      > > that into the editor.
      > >
      > > 3) Use
      > >
      > > I'm a bit confused here. I would hope our data team could use the
      > > editor for our files, which I think you're allowing with the "if they
      > > answer no, confirm and continue" scenario. At some point in the past,
      > > I had suggested that the "edit-in-place" mode (meaning the stand-alone
      > > mode) would have a different border (like a thick blue line or
      > > something that highlights that to the user). You may consider
      > > something like that as well if they confirmed and continued.
      > >
      > > What I don't understand is - if they open in read-only mode, can
      > > anything be done in the editor? Is the primary purpose there just to
      > > provide the ability to copy/paste items to another editor instance?
      > >
      > > 4) Use
      > >
      > > "If a primary token is selected then the list of files associated with
      > > the pcc file that can contain that token, plus 'new' and 'all' are
      > > available. "
      > >
      > > I'm not following this. By primary token do you mean things like AUTO,
      > > SPELLLEVEL, and the like? Or are you referring to PCC tokens like
      > > TEMPLATE, CLASS, DOMAIN?
      > >
      > > I think the screen shots are great, but some "dummy" data in them
      > > might help my comprehension.
      > >
      > > 5) Parsing
      > >
      > > I'm confused on the "parse" button. Parsing is cheap (relatively
      > > speaking), so why can't we parse continuously? After some delay in
      > > typing (0.5 sec?) we can parse the input and provide messages for
      > > problems (as well as color the background if there is a problem).
      > >
      > > I'd much prefer to see some automation there vs. having to push a
      > > button to get the system to parse the input. Having the automation can
      > > allow at least structurally correct input to be forced (or you can't
      > > go away from the tab - thinking Kar's #4 item here). There will be
      > > some situations where you have to allow them to move away (e.g.
      > > unconstructed references) and allow them to save the data, we just
      > > need to provide some system of warning them that there are "errors"
      > > when they save the data.
      > >
      > > 6) Tabs
      > >
      > > I'm honestly a bit lost on how the different sub-tabs interact. I'm
      > > concerned there may be a lot of tab switching, but I can't tell if
      > > that is a valid concern or my mis-understanding your descriptions so
      > far.
      > >
      > > 7) To-Do List
      > >
      > > If you do:
      > >
      > > AUTO:FEAT|MyFeat
      > >
      > > from inside a Class called MyClass.
      > >
      > > This should initially generate a form of error (since MyFeat hasn't
      > > been built).
      > >
      > > Consider having a list of "items left to build" for the items that
      > > would otherwise produce "unconstructed references". I think that's
      > > valuable so that people can tell from the editor whether they have a
      > > self-consistent set of data (vs. having to do a full data load)
      > >
      > > 8) Kar's feedback
      > >
      > > A note - in my opinion anyway - on the priority of 3) and 3a) in Kar's
      > > list. The items in 3) are final work, which is far from where we are
      > > now. 3a) is a concern, but I don't want you held up waiting for Connor
      > > to be at a point (school break) where you can interlock.
      > >
      > > TP.
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >
      > >
      > > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> > Version:
      > 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2542 - Release Date: 12/03/09 07:32:00
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      > pcgen_develope! rs-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:pcgen_developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.98/2552 - Release Date: 12/08/09 07:34:00
      >
      >
    • karianna03
      Hi all, I took the liberty of merging in some information from the Major Projects Link, so that is now part of MotorViper s page at:
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 10, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi all,

        I took the liberty of merging in some information from the Major Projects Link, so that is now part of MotorViper's page at:

        http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=LST_Editor

        MotorViper: I still need to review the actual content again :), will comment again soon!

        K

        --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, MotorViper <motorviper@...> wrote:
        >
        > The spec (slightly updated) is now under development specs on the wiki.
        >
        > Andrew Maitland wrote:
        > > Were you logged in? You should have been able to add it as long as you
        > > are logged in.
        > > If not, let me know and I'll check the settings.
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > *From:* MotorViper <motorviper@...>
        > > *To:* pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com
        > > *Sent:* Thu, December 3, 2009 1:24:59 PM
        > > *Subject:* Re: [pcgen_developers] Re: Lst editor.
        > >
        > > Where on the wiki do I add this, I tried under 'Development Spec' but
        > > had a message that said I didn't have permission to edit the page.
        > >
        > > MV.
        > >
        > > thpr wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Mark,
        > > >
        > > > Great start, and I'm glad to see it written down to help other people
        > > > follow what is being planned. However, I would echo Kar's request to
        > > > have this on the Wiki.
        > > >
        > > > A few thoughts:
        > > >
        > > > 1) Overview
        > > >
        > > > My initial impression was that the two modes have different
        > > > UI/function. Stand-alone mode edits a PCC file (can't be done today),
        > > > while launched-from-PCGen mode edits the "custom object" file (which
        > > > is what the editor does today).
        > > >
        > > > Thus, the stand-alone mode involves selecting a PCC file, while the
        > > > launched-from-PCGen mode does not involve selection of a PCC or LST
        > > > file (it is based off the loaded data)
        > > >
        > > > 2) Dialog & File Selection Area
        > > >
        > > > Something to think about here that I'm not sure got discussed during
        > > > the code team meeting on the LST Editor: There can be a "context" to
        > > > LST files.
        > > >
        > > > Consider this "use case":
        > > >
        > > > I want to create a set of files for an RSRD expansion. In that case, I
        > > > need to be able to specify 3 things:
        > > > 1) The PCC file I want to save into (in your dialog today)
        > > > 2) The LST file I'm editing (in your dialog today)
        > > > 3) The PCC file(s) serving as a "context" of the PCC file being edited.
        > > >
        > > > #3 is important, so that you can do things like:
        > > > AUTO:FEAT|Dodge
        > > >
        > > > Without knowing the data is dependent upon the RSRD, you may flag
        > > > "Dodge" as an error (unconstructed reference) or something that the
        > > > user needs to build.
        > > >
        > > > So in order to be able to catch that the tokens are valid (as well as
        > > > provide a list of things the user still needs to build), you will need
        > > > to be able to provide context.
        > > >
        > > > What was initially in my head was a load screen where you define the
        > > > context, PCC file and LST file, and then an edit screen. There, you
        > > > could just display the PCC file and LST file (but do not allow
        > > > selection of them) in the actual edit screen. In that way the edit
        > > > screen can be used in both modes (one where the PCC and LST were set
        > > > by the load screen, one where it's pre-determined since it was
        > > > launched-from-PCGen). Don't take that as a literal requirement to do 2
        > > > screens, but consider the need for context and how you might design
        > > > that into the editor.
        > > >
        > > > 3) Use
        > > >
        > > > I'm a bit confused here. I would hope our data team could use the
        > > > editor for our files, which I think you're allowing with the "if they
        > > > answer no, confirm and continue" scenario. At some point in the past,
        > > > I had suggested that the "edit-in-place" mode (meaning the stand-alone
        > > > mode) would have a different border (like a thick blue line or
        > > > something that highlights that to the user). You may consider
        > > > something like that as well if they confirmed and continued.
        > > >
        > > > What I don't understand is - if they open in read-only mode, can
        > > > anything be done in the editor? Is the primary purpose there just to
        > > > provide the ability to copy/paste items to another editor instance?
        > > >
        > > > 4) Use
        > > >
        > > > "If a primary token is selected then the list of files associated with
        > > > the pcc file that can contain that token, plus 'new' and 'all' are
        > > > available. "
        > > >
        > > > I'm not following this. By primary token do you mean things like AUTO,
        > > > SPELLLEVEL, and the like? Or are you referring to PCC tokens like
        > > > TEMPLATE, CLASS, DOMAIN?
        > > >
        > > > I think the screen shots are great, but some "dummy" data in them
        > > > might help my comprehension.
        > > >
        > > > 5) Parsing
        > > >
        > > > I'm confused on the "parse" button. Parsing is cheap (relatively
        > > > speaking), so why can't we parse continuously? After some delay in
        > > > typing (0.5 sec?) we can parse the input and provide messages for
        > > > problems (as well as color the background if there is a problem).
        > > >
        > > > I'd much prefer to see some automation there vs. having to push a
        > > > button to get the system to parse the input. Having the automation can
        > > > allow at least structurally correct input to be forced (or you can't
        > > > go away from the tab - thinking Kar's #4 item here). There will be
        > > > some situations where you have to allow them to move away (e.g.
        > > > unconstructed references) and allow them to save the data, we just
        > > > need to provide some system of warning them that there are "errors"
        > > > when they save the data.
        > > >
        > > > 6) Tabs
        > > >
        > > > I'm honestly a bit lost on how the different sub-tabs interact. I'm
        > > > concerned there may be a lot of tab switching, but I can't tell if
        > > > that is a valid concern or my mis-understanding your descriptions so
        > > far.
        > > >
        > > > 7) To-Do List
        > > >
        > > > If you do:
        > > >
        > > > AUTO:FEAT|MyFeat
        > > >
        > > > from inside a Class called MyClass.
        > > >
        > > > This should initially generate a form of error (since MyFeat hasn't
        > > > been built).
        > > >
        > > > Consider having a list of "items left to build" for the items that
        > > > would otherwise produce "unconstructed references". I think that's
        > > > valuable so that people can tell from the editor whether they have a
        > > > self-consistent set of data (vs. having to do a full data load)
        > > >
        > > > 8) Kar's feedback
        > > >
        > > > A note - in my opinion anyway - on the priority of 3) and 3a) in Kar's
        > > > list. The items in 3) are final work, which is far from where we are
        > > > now. 3a) is a concern, but I don't want you held up waiting for Connor
        > > > to be at a point (school break) where you can interlock.
        > > >
        > > > TP.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> > Version:
        > > 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2542 - Release Date: 12/03/09 07:32:00
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > > pcgen_develope! rs-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:pcgen_developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > >
        > >
        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.98/2552 - Release Date: 12/08/09 07:34:00
        > >
        > >
        >
      • karianna03
        Hi all, So I ve read through it and have no real further comments to make. If everyone is happy with the current proposal I suggest we invite the broader
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 17, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi all,

          So I've read through it and have no real further comments to make.

          If everyone is happy with the current proposal I suggest we invite the broader community to comment, thoughts?

          K

          --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, "karianna03" <martijnverburg@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi all,
          >
          > I took the liberty of merging in some information from the Major Projects Link, so that is now part of MotorViper's page at:
          >
          > http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=LST_Editor
          >
          > MotorViper: I still need to review the actual content again :), will comment again soon!
          >
          > K
          >
          > --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, MotorViper <motorviper@> wrote:
          > >
          > > The spec (slightly updated) is now under development specs on the wiki.
          > >
          > > Andrew Maitland wrote:
          > > > Were you logged in? You should have been able to add it as long as you
          > > > are logged in.
          > > > If not, let me know and I'll check the settings.
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > > *From:* MotorViper <motorviper@>
          > > > *To:* pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com
          > > > *Sent:* Thu, December 3, 2009 1:24:59 PM
          > > > *Subject:* Re: [pcgen_developers] Re: Lst editor.
          > > >
          > > > Where on the wiki do I add this, I tried under 'Development Spec' but
          > > > had a message that said I didn't have permission to edit the page.
          > > >
          > > > MV.
          > > >
          > > > thpr wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Mark,
          > > > >
          > > > > Great start, and I'm glad to see it written down to help other people
          > > > > follow what is being planned. However, I would echo Kar's request to
          > > > > have this on the Wiki.
          > > > >
          > > > > A few thoughts:
          > > > >
          > > > > 1) Overview
          > > > >
          > > > > My initial impression was that the two modes have different
          > > > > UI/function. Stand-alone mode edits a PCC file (can't be done today),
          > > > > while launched-from-PCGen mode edits the "custom object" file (which
          > > > > is what the editor does today).
          > > > >
          > > > > Thus, the stand-alone mode involves selecting a PCC file, while the
          > > > > launched-from-PCGen mode does not involve selection of a PCC or LST
          > > > > file (it is based off the loaded data)
          > > > >
          > > > > 2) Dialog & File Selection Area
          > > > >
          > > > > Something to think about here that I'm not sure got discussed during
          > > > > the code team meeting on the LST Editor: There can be a "context" to
          > > > > LST files.
          > > > >
          > > > > Consider this "use case":
          > > > >
          > > > > I want to create a set of files for an RSRD expansion. In that case, I
          > > > > need to be able to specify 3 things:
          > > > > 1) The PCC file I want to save into (in your dialog today)
          > > > > 2) The LST file I'm editing (in your dialog today)
          > > > > 3) The PCC file(s) serving as a "context" of the PCC file being edited.
          > > > >
          > > > > #3 is important, so that you can do things like:
          > > > > AUTO:FEAT|Dodge
          > > > >
          > > > > Without knowing the data is dependent upon the RSRD, you may flag
          > > > > "Dodge" as an error (unconstructed reference) or something that the
          > > > > user needs to build.
          > > > >
          > > > > So in order to be able to catch that the tokens are valid (as well as
          > > > > provide a list of things the user still needs to build), you will need
          > > > > to be able to provide context.
          > > > >
          > > > > What was initially in my head was a load screen where you define the
          > > > > context, PCC file and LST file, and then an edit screen. There, you
          > > > > could just display the PCC file and LST file (but do not allow
          > > > > selection of them) in the actual edit screen. In that way the edit
          > > > > screen can be used in both modes (one where the PCC and LST were set
          > > > > by the load screen, one where it's pre-determined since it was
          > > > > launched-from-PCGen). Don't take that as a literal requirement to do 2
          > > > > screens, but consider the need for context and how you might design
          > > > > that into the editor.
          > > > >
          > > > > 3) Use
          > > > >
          > > > > I'm a bit confused here. I would hope our data team could use the
          > > > > editor for our files, which I think you're allowing with the "if they
          > > > > answer no, confirm and continue" scenario. At some point in the past,
          > > > > I had suggested that the "edit-in-place" mode (meaning the stand-alone
          > > > > mode) would have a different border (like a thick blue line or
          > > > > something that highlights that to the user). You may consider
          > > > > something like that as well if they confirmed and continued.
          > > > >
          > > > > What I don't understand is - if they open in read-only mode, can
          > > > > anything be done in the editor? Is the primary purpose there just to
          > > > > provide the ability to copy/paste items to another editor instance?
          > > > >
          > > > > 4) Use
          > > > >
          > > > > "If a primary token is selected then the list of files associated with
          > > > > the pcc file that can contain that token, plus 'new' and 'all' are
          > > > > available. "
          > > > >
          > > > > I'm not following this. By primary token do you mean things like AUTO,
          > > > > SPELLLEVEL, and the like? Or are you referring to PCC tokens like
          > > > > TEMPLATE, CLASS, DOMAIN?
          > > > >
          > > > > I think the screen shots are great, but some "dummy" data in them
          > > > > might help my comprehension.
          > > > >
          > > > > 5) Parsing
          > > > >
          > > > > I'm confused on the "parse" button. Parsing is cheap (relatively
          > > > > speaking), so why can't we parse continuously? After some delay in
          > > > > typing (0.5 sec?) we can parse the input and provide messages for
          > > > > problems (as well as color the background if there is a problem).
          > > > >
          > > > > I'd much prefer to see some automation there vs. having to push a
          > > > > button to get the system to parse the input. Having the automation can
          > > > > allow at least structurally correct input to be forced (or you can't
          > > > > go away from the tab - thinking Kar's #4 item here). There will be
          > > > > some situations where you have to allow them to move away (e.g.
          > > > > unconstructed references) and allow them to save the data, we just
          > > > > need to provide some system of warning them that there are "errors"
          > > > > when they save the data.
          > > > >
          > > > > 6) Tabs
          > > > >
          > > > > I'm honestly a bit lost on how the different sub-tabs interact. I'm
          > > > > concerned there may be a lot of tab switching, but I can't tell if
          > > > > that is a valid concern or my mis-understanding your descriptions so
          > > > far.
          > > > >
          > > > > 7) To-Do List
          > > > >
          > > > > If you do:
          > > > >
          > > > > AUTO:FEAT|MyFeat
          > > > >
          > > > > from inside a Class called MyClass.
          > > > >
          > > > > This should initially generate a form of error (since MyFeat hasn't
          > > > > been built).
          > > > >
          > > > > Consider having a list of "items left to build" for the items that
          > > > > would otherwise produce "unconstructed references". I think that's
          > > > > valuable so that people can tell from the editor whether they have a
          > > > > self-consistent set of data (vs. having to do a full data load)
          > > > >
          > > > > 8) Kar's feedback
          > > > >
          > > > > A note - in my opinion anyway - on the priority of 3) and 3a) in Kar's
          > > > > list. The items in 3) are final work, which is far from where we are
          > > > > now. 3a) is a concern, but I don't want you held up waiting for Connor
          > > > > to be at a point (school break) where you can interlock.
          > > > >
          > > > > TP.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> > Version:
          > > > 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2542 - Release Date: 12/03/09 07:32:00
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------------------
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > pcgen_develope! rs-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
          > > > <mailto:pcgen_developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          > > > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.98/2552 - Release Date: 12/08/09 07:34:00
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Paul
          Hmm, I wonder if it might not be a good thing to have some way to grey out or filter items objects that shouldn t be in the same file. Like if a
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 17, 2009
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            Hmm, I wonder if it might not be a good thing to have some way to grey out or filter items objects that shouldn't be in the same file. Like if a feats/abilities file is being generated, then you can't put an equipment object in with it.

            Or was that listed and I just skipped over it?

            --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, "karianna03" <martijnverburg@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi all,
            >
            > So I've read through it and have no real further comments to make.
            >
            > If everyone is happy with the current proposal I suggest we invite the broader community to comment, thoughts?
            >
            > K
            >
            > --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, "karianna03" <martijnverburg@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi all,
            > >
            > > I took the liberty of merging in some information from the Major Projects Link, so that is now part of MotorViper's page at:
            > >
            > > http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=LST_Editor
            > >
            > > MotorViper: I still need to review the actual content again :), will comment again soon!
            > >
            > > K
            > >
            > > --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, MotorViper <motorviper@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > The spec (slightly updated) is now under development specs on the wiki.
            > > >
            > > > Andrew Maitland wrote:
            > > > > Were you logged in? You should have been able to add it as long as you
            > > > > are logged in.
            > > > > If not, let me know and I'll check the settings.
            > > > >
            > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > > > *From:* MotorViper <motorviper@>
            > > > > *To:* pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > *Sent:* Thu, December 3, 2009 1:24:59 PM
            > > > > *Subject:* Re: [pcgen_developers] Re: Lst editor.
            > > > >
            > > > > Where on the wiki do I add this, I tried under 'Development Spec' but
            > > > > had a message that said I didn't have permission to edit the page.
            > > > >
            > > > > MV.
            > > > >
            > > > > thpr wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Mark,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Great start, and I'm glad to see it written down to help other people
            > > > > > follow what is being planned. However, I would echo Kar's request to
            > > > > > have this on the Wiki.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > A few thoughts:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > 1) Overview
            > > > > >
            > > > > > My initial impression was that the two modes have different
            > > > > > UI/function. Stand-alone mode edits a PCC file (can't be done today),
            > > > > > while launched-from-PCGen mode edits the "custom object" file (which
            > > > > > is what the editor does today).
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Thus, the stand-alone mode involves selecting a PCC file, while the
            > > > > > launched-from-PCGen mode does not involve selection of a PCC or LST
            > > > > > file (it is based off the loaded data)
            > > > > >
            > > > > > 2) Dialog & File Selection Area
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Something to think about here that I'm not sure got discussed during
            > > > > > the code team meeting on the LST Editor: There can be a "context" to
            > > > > > LST files.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Consider this "use case":
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I want to create a set of files for an RSRD expansion. In that case, I
            > > > > > need to be able to specify 3 things:
            > > > > > 1) The PCC file I want to save into (in your dialog today)
            > > > > > 2) The LST file I'm editing (in your dialog today)
            > > > > > 3) The PCC file(s) serving as a "context" of the PCC file being edited.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > #3 is important, so that you can do things like:
            > > > > > AUTO:FEAT|Dodge
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Without knowing the data is dependent upon the RSRD, you may flag
            > > > > > "Dodge" as an error (unconstructed reference) or something that the
            > > > > > user needs to build.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > So in order to be able to catch that the tokens are valid (as well as
            > > > > > provide a list of things the user still needs to build), you will need
            > > > > > to be able to provide context.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > What was initially in my head was a load screen where you define the
            > > > > > context, PCC file and LST file, and then an edit screen. There, you
            > > > > > could just display the PCC file and LST file (but do not allow
            > > > > > selection of them) in the actual edit screen. In that way the edit
            > > > > > screen can be used in both modes (one where the PCC and LST were set
            > > > > > by the load screen, one where it's pre-determined since it was
            > > > > > launched-from-PCGen). Don't take that as a literal requirement to do 2
            > > > > > screens, but consider the need for context and how you might design
            > > > > > that into the editor.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > 3) Use
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'm a bit confused here. I would hope our data team could use the
            > > > > > editor for our files, which I think you're allowing with the "if they
            > > > > > answer no, confirm and continue" scenario. At some point in the past,
            > > > > > I had suggested that the "edit-in-place" mode (meaning the stand-alone
            > > > > > mode) would have a different border (like a thick blue line or
            > > > > > something that highlights that to the user). You may consider
            > > > > > something like that as well if they confirmed and continued.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > What I don't understand is - if they open in read-only mode, can
            > > > > > anything be done in the editor? Is the primary purpose there just to
            > > > > > provide the ability to copy/paste items to another editor instance?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > 4) Use
            > > > > >
            > > > > > "If a primary token is selected then the list of files associated with
            > > > > > the pcc file that can contain that token, plus 'new' and 'all' are
            > > > > > available. "
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'm not following this. By primary token do you mean things like AUTO,
            > > > > > SPELLLEVEL, and the like? Or are you referring to PCC tokens like
            > > > > > TEMPLATE, CLASS, DOMAIN?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I think the screen shots are great, but some "dummy" data in them
            > > > > > might help my comprehension.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > 5) Parsing
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'm confused on the "parse" button. Parsing is cheap (relatively
            > > > > > speaking), so why can't we parse continuously? After some delay in
            > > > > > typing (0.5 sec?) we can parse the input and provide messages for
            > > > > > problems (as well as color the background if there is a problem).
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'd much prefer to see some automation there vs. having to push a
            > > > > > button to get the system to parse the input. Having the automation can
            > > > > > allow at least structurally correct input to be forced (or you can't
            > > > > > go away from the tab - thinking Kar's #4 item here). There will be
            > > > > > some situations where you have to allow them to move away (e.g.
            > > > > > unconstructed references) and allow them to save the data, we just
            > > > > > need to provide some system of warning them that there are "errors"
            > > > > > when they save the data.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > 6) Tabs
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'm honestly a bit lost on how the different sub-tabs interact. I'm
            > > > > > concerned there may be a lot of tab switching, but I can't tell if
            > > > > > that is a valid concern or my mis-understanding your descriptions so
            > > > > far.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > 7) To-Do List
            > > > > >
            > > > > > If you do:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > AUTO:FEAT|MyFeat
            > > > > >
            > > > > > from inside a Class called MyClass.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > This should initially generate a form of error (since MyFeat hasn't
            > > > > > been built).
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Consider having a list of "items left to build" for the items that
            > > > > > would otherwise produce "unconstructed references". I think that's
            > > > > > valuable so that people can tell from the editor whether they have a
            > > > > > self-consistent set of data (vs. having to do a full data load)
            > > > > >
            > > > > > 8) Kar's feedback
            > > > > >
            > > > > > A note - in my opinion anyway - on the priority of 3) and 3a) in Kar's
            > > > > > list. The items in 3) are final work, which is far from where we are
            > > > > > now. 3a) is a concern, but I don't want you held up waiting for Connor
            > > > > > to be at a point (school break) where you can interlock.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > TP.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> > Version:
            > > > > 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2542 - Release Date: 12/03/09 07:32:00
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > ------------------------------------
            > > > >
            > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > pcgen_develope! rs-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > <mailto:pcgen_developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            > > > > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.98/2552 - Release Date: 12/08/09 07:34:00
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • motorviper@ymail.com
            The LST editor will be more restrictive than this in that only tokens that can be used in the active file will be listed for editing.
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 18, 2009
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              The LST editor will be more restrictive than this in that only tokens that can be used in the active file will be listed for editing.

              --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <nylanfs@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hmm, I wonder if it might not be a good thing to have some way to grey out or filter items objects that shouldn't be in the same file. Like if a feats/abilities file is being generated, then you can't put an equipment object in with it.
              >
              > Or was that listed and I just skipped over it?
              >
            • karianna03
              FYI, I ve asked the main list to start commenting on the LST Editor (apologies if I stole your lead there Motorviper). K
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 22, 2009
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                FYI, I've asked the main list to start commenting on the LST Editor (apologies if I stole your lead there Motorviper).

                K

                --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, "motorviper@..." <motorviper@...> wrote:
                >
                > The LST editor will be more restrictive than this in that only tokens that can be used in the active file will be listed for editing.
                >
                > --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <nylanfs@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hmm, I wonder if it might not be a good thing to have some way to grey out or filter items objects that shouldn't be in the same file. Like if a feats/abilities file is being generated, then you can't put an equipment object in with it.
                > >
                > > Or was that listed and I just skipped over it?
                > >
                >
              • James Dempsey
                Hi, I have added my feedback to the talk page http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Talk:LST_Editor The proposal looks pretty sound to me. I m keen to get
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 9, 2010
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                  Hi,

                  I have added my feedback to the talk page
                  http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Talk:LST_Editor

                  The proposal looks pretty sound to me. I'm keen to get started. :)

                  Cheers,
                  James.

                  On 17/12/2009 10:42 PM karianna03 wrote
                  > Hi all,
                  >
                  > So I've read through it and have no real further comments to make.
                  >
                  > If everyone is happy with the current proposal I suggest we invite the broader community to comment, thoughts?
                  >
                  > K
                  >
                  > --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, "karianna03" <martijnverburg@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> Hi all,
                  >>
                  >> I took the liberty of merging in some information from the Major Projects Link, so that is now part of MotorViper's page at:
                  >>
                  >> http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=LST_Editor
                  >>
                  >> MotorViper: I still need to review the actual content again :), will comment again soon!
                  >>
                  >> K
                  >>
                  >> --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, MotorViper <motorviper@> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> The spec (slightly updated) is now under development specs on the wiki.
                  >>>
                • motorviper@ymail.com
                  James, I ve looked at your comments and, where relevant, am merging them in. Just two comments on the comments! 1. I want to leave PCC file editing in there as
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 13, 2010
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                    James,

                    I've looked at your comments and, where relevant, am merging them in. Just two comments on the comments!

                    1. I want to leave PCC file editing in there as the idea is to make this into a stand-alone facility for adding/modifying content.

                    2. Some things such as PCC file editing may need to wait until a later version but my document is designed to be how I'd like the editor to be eventually. As new ideas get added this is where they should be put and a subset of it used as the help page.

                    Hope this makes sense. Work will start as soon as I have time, christmas etc. have slowed me down a bit.

                    Mark.


                    --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > I have added my feedback to the talk page
                    > http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Talk:LST_Editor
                    >
                    > The proposal looks pretty sound to me. I'm keen to get started. :)
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > James.
                    >
                    > On 17/12/2009 10:42 PM karianna03 wrote
                    > > Hi all,
                    > >
                    > > So I've read through it and have no real further comments to make.
                    > >
                    > > If everyone is happy with the current proposal I suggest we invite the broader community to comment, thoughts?
                    > >
                    > > K
                    > >
                    > > --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, "karianna03" <martijnverburg@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >> Hi all,
                    > >>
                    > >> I took the liberty of merging in some information from the Major Projects Link, so that is now part of MotorViper's page at:
                    > >>
                    > >> http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=LST_Editor
                    > >>
                    > >> MotorViper: I still need to review the actual content again :), will comment again soon!
                    > >>
                    > >> K
                    > >>
                    > >> --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, MotorViper <motorviper@> wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >>> The spec (slightly updated) is now under development specs on the wiki.
                    > >>>
                    >
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