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New UI - Any Remaining Issues

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  • James Dempsey
    Hi, I m looking at doing the alpha release in a few days. Could you post, or log an issue in Jira if you spot anything in the new UI you think needs to be
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 11, 2012
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      Hi,

      I'm looking at doing the alpha release in a few days. Could you post, or
      log an issue in Jira if you spot anything in the new UI you think needs
      to be sorted out before the release please?

      Issues covered so far:
      http://jira.pcgen.org/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=10020&version=10290

      Cheers,
      James.
    • FerretDave
      Greetings, Been meaning to look through this and give some feedback, but not had time till now, and now wont be online for a week, so here s some thoughts
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 12, 2012
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        Greetings,
        Been meaning to look through this and give some feedback, but not had time till now, and now wont be online for a week, so here's some thoughts before it gets final. Apologies if these have been spotted already.
        Using 5.17.6 UI demo 4, just using the default RSRD

        Entering stats on a new character - tabbing through the fields, the initial value (0) isn't selected, so I tab, delete the zero, enter the new number. Any chance it could select the text on entry, then I could just over-type ? Minor niggle I admit :-)
        Clicking 'roll' didnt do anything until I'd selected a method, if there's no method defined, can 'roll' bring up that dialog or indicate a method needs to be set? (disable the roll button until method has been selected?)

        Races - how about a (default) filter for 'standard' races? I selected SRD3.5 for players, and still have a choice of various snakes and whales(!)
        Why have such a large white pane on the right for the selected race? I can only select one, so put it underneath and make the list pane full width.

        Deities - my bad for selecting RSRD I guess, but there's none to select, the 'None' entry states:
        "Non file in RSRD why none" - can that text be updated (LST?) to indicate SRD doesn't provide any deities and you need to add them yourself?

        Domains - I like the tick box method, but the ellipses for extra fields doesn't do anything on the right hand pane - would be nice to able to add the 'granted power' to the list and scroll through.

        Templates - you can sort by pre-reqs, but how about 'filter' by them too ? I.e only show me the templates I *can* select.
        Same idea for classes/feats/abilities too ? (and 'school' for spells too? Be nice to scan through and find all my possible specialist spells.

        Skills - definitely want the craft/profession/knowledge trees to be minimisable. Far too many to keep scrolling through. (EDIT - later found the 'right click on button' to change the 'Name' to 'Type/Name' etc) - completely overlooked that option...
        Would still like a full list with a tree option though.
        I like that filter for class/cross class :-)

        Shame we cant double click on a skill to add it, how about right clicking to allow '+1/+2/+3/+4' like the purchase system used to do?
        Those are very small arrows to select the numbers, how about using the space for the current paired arrows as just a single '+' button, and put a large '-' button (the same size) at the beginning of the field.
        Similarly to the stats entering, if you click on the number, can it select the entire number to simplify over-typing?

        I've commented before, but the 'expand' arrows on choices (such as spells - the class name to expand to view the levels) are almost non-existant on the top level - I just see a tiny dot.

        Spells - double clicking on a spell (to remove it from my selected list) minimises the entire selected tree, which is an annoyance.
        (just created a cleric/wizard, NE, with healing/knowledge domains, and got two 'cure light wounds' listed under prepared spells.. one was apparently *not* a domain spell, the other one was?)

        Equipment - I'm confused as to what is deciding whether equipment is custom or not, 'sling' is a custom item apparently?
        Its not intuitive that right clicking on the 'Type/Name' button can toggle it to 'Name', normally a small down arrow indicates left click to select, and here it's sort, but that matches the other buttons style.

        Could we get like named items in a tree structure? I.e when viewing by 'Name', there are numerous 'Amulet of blah +x', it would be nice for each of the '+x' to be in a subtree, and to be honest, all the 'amulets of' to be in a tree too - I know (now!) I can change the 'name' to 'type/name', but I want to see the full list of all equipment to pick out the 'odd' things, like chalk, bedroll etc, and have to keep scrolling through pages of magical variants...(boots and bracers)

        We've lost the 'clear' button on the filter(s), would be nice to have that back.

        The new 'equipped' screen is going to take some getting used to... This is probably the screen most used by most users(?) It's where I see, to end up spending most of my time

        Seems odd to be able to expand head/hands and see 'empty slots' indicated, whilst 'carried'/'equipped' and 'not carried' cant be expanded unless they contain something. Could they expand to show 'nothing carried' so its clear that the click to expand has done something?
        Can we have a view like the old style - just showing all the equipment and its location without having to expand (or have the headings all expanded by default?)
        Could the headings (Head/Hands etc) be marked (italic?) if they don't contain anything ? Again, this is possible a hang up as I dont see the 'expand' arrows very clearly at all - Nimbus L&F @ 1920x1080, so resolution shouldnt be an issue)

        Double clicking on an item pops up a dialog with a 'quantity' entry, selecting ok then equips or unequips that many of that item - if you've only got one of an item, can that default to just doing the move with that one item?
        Ah, double clicking from the unequipped pane adds a container choice to that dialog, missed that initially, could we have that same choice when double clicked from the right hand pane, with an extra container choice of 'not equipped' ? This allows to move to containers rather than just unequipping.

        Similarly, can we have the 'old' right click to select 1/5/10 of an item to do something with, and the option to 'move' to a different container?

        The arrows next to 'unequip selected' and 'equip selected' don't appear to do anything?

        'Unequip all' - can that have a 'are you sure?' prompt?!
        Can we have a similar 'equip all' (accepting default locations)?


        Bio page - I like the option to include/exclude from output, and the 'campaign history' page too.

        Can't add a custom page (button doesn't do anything) or add a custom bio item (button greyed out).


        Cheers
        Dave
        --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I'm looking at doing the alpha release in a few days. Could you post, or
        > log an issue in Jira if you spot anything in the new UI you think needs
        > to be sorted out before the release please?
        >
        > Issues covered so far:
        > http://jira.pcgen.org/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=10020&version=10290
        >
        > Cheers,
        > James.
        >
      • FerretDave
        also, on the equip tab, there s no indication of funds remaining? Or is that fixed already? (CODE-1216?)
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 12, 2012
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          also, on the equip tab, there's no indication of funds remaining? Or is that fixed already? (CODE-1216?)

          --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > I'm looking at doing the alpha release in a few days. Could you post, or
          > log an issue in Jira if you spot anything in the new UI you think needs
          > to be sorted out before the release please?
          >
          > Issues covered so far:
          > http://jira.pcgen.org/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=10020&version=10290
          >
          > Cheers,
          > James.
          >
        • James Dempsey
          Hi Dave, On 13/02/2012 3:30 AM FerretDave wrote ... Thanks for the feedback. I ve done something like 30 fixes since that version though so much of what you
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 12, 2012
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            Hi Dave,

            On 13/02/2012 3:30 AM FerretDave wrote
            > Greetings,
            > Been meaning to look through this and give some feedback, but not had time till now, and now wont be online for a week, so here's some thoughts before it gets final. Apologies if these have been spotted already.
            > Using 5.17.6 UI demo 4, just using the default RSRD

            Thanks for the feedback. I've done something like 30 fixes since that
            version though so much of what you raise is already dealt with. I'll
            just trim those from the post. If you want to see the current system,
            you can grab the autobuild from
            http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/download.html
            > Entering stats on a new character - tabbing through the fields, the initial value (0) isn't selected, so I tab, delete the zero, enter the new number. Any chance it could select the text on entry, then I could just over-type ? Minor niggle I admit :-)
            > Clicking 'roll' didnt do anything until I'd selected a method, if there's no method defined, can 'roll' bring up that dialog or indicate a method needs to be set? (disable the roll button until method has been selected?)

            Good suggestions I'll look into those.


            > Races - how about a (default) filter for 'standard' races? I selected SRD3.5 for players, and still have a choice of various snakes and whales(!)
            > Why have such a large white pane on the right for the selected race? I can only select one, so put it underneath and make the list pane full width.
            On the summary we sort those up. I don't think that is in place on the
            races tab. I know that 3.5 doesn't currently match the sorting up code,
            so I'll adapt the code to suit.

            > Deities - my bad for selecting RSRD I guess, but there's none to select, the 'None' entry states:
            > "Non file in RSRD why none" - can that text be updated (LST?) to indicate SRD doesn't provide any deities and you need to add them yourself?

            Yes that needs to be a Data change.. Could you raise a DATA request in
            Jira please?

            > Domains - I like the tick box method, but the ellipses for extra fields doesn't do anything on the right hand pane - would be nice to able to add the 'granted power' to the list and scroll through.

            Should be doable.

            > Templates - you can sort by pre-reqs, but how about 'filter' by them too ? I.e only show me the templates I *can* select.
            > Same idea for classes/feats/abilities too ? (and 'school' for spells too? Be nice to scan through and find all my possible specialist spells.
            Filters are already in place for abilities and equipment. Spells could
            be done, but there might be a space issue there. You can certainly sort
            by school etc.

            > Shame we cant double click on a skill to add it, how about right clicking to allow '+1/+2/+3/+4' like the purchase system used to do?
            > Those are very small arrows to select the numbers, how about using the space for the current paired arrows as just a single '+' button, and put a large '-' button (the same size) at the beginning of the field.
            > Similarly to the stats entering, if you click on the number, can it select the entire number to simplify over-typing?
            A few people have commented about this. I think we'll have to revisit
            the skills tab later and look at what can be done, either by making it
            like the other tabs, or providing more space in each row.


            > Spells - double clicking on a spell (to remove it from my selected list) minimises the entire selected tree, which is an annoyance.

            Yes that one is a major annoyance. Connor is looking into it currently.

            > Equipment - I'm confused as to what is deciding whether equipment is custom or not, 'sling' is a custom item apparently?
            Yes they weren't wired up. I've replaced them with Qualified and
            Affordable filters.

            > Its not intuitive that right clicking on the 'Type/Name' button can toggle it to 'Name', normally a small down arrow indicates left click to select, and here it's sort, but that matches the other buttons style.

            Agreed. On my todo list is to look at adding them to the corner menu
            where you choose extra columns.


            > Could we get like named items in a tree structure? I.e when viewing by 'Name', there are numerous 'Amulet of blah +x', it would be nice for each of the '+x' to be in a subtree, and to be honest, all the 'amulets of' to be in a tree too - I know (now!) I can change the 'name' to 'type/name', but I want to see the full list of all equipment to pick out the 'odd' things, like chalk, bedroll etc, and have to keep scrolling through pages of magical variants...(boots and bracers)
            We'd need a firmer definition before it could be implemented. If you
            could raise a freq with a solid set of rules I'd be happy to look at it.

            > We've lost the 'clear' button on the filter(s), would be nice to have that back.

            Agreed.

            > The new 'equipped' screen is going to take some getting used to... This is probably the screen most used by most users(?) It's where I see, to end up spending most of my time
            >
            > Seems odd to be able to expand head/hands and see 'empty slots' indicated, whilst 'carried'/'equipped' and 'not carried' cant be expanded unless they contain something. Could they expand to show 'nothing carried' so its clear that the click to expand has done something?

            That could be done.

            > Can we have a view like the old style - just showing all the equipment and its location without having to expand (or have the headings all expanded by default?)

            I was considering adding an expand all option to that screen as I have
            the same issue. I think starting with the top level items expanded makes
            sense too.

            > Could the headings (Head/Hands etc) be marked (italic?) if they don't contain anything ? Again, this is possible a hang up as I dont see the 'expand' arrows very clearly at all - Nimbus L&F @ 1920x1080, so resolution shouldnt be an issue)
            That has been fixed - could you give the autobuild a go and see if this
            is still an issue?

            > Double clicking on an item pops up a dialog with a 'quantity' entry, selecting ok then equips or unequips that many of that item - if you've only got one of an item, can that default to just doing the move with that one item?
            > Ah, double clicking from the unequipped pane adds a container choice to that dialog, missed that initially, could we have that same choice when double clicked from the right hand pane, with an extra container choice of 'not equipped' ? This allows to move to containers rather than just unequipping.

            Interesting idea.
            > Similarly, can we have the 'old' right click to select 1/5/10 of an item to do something with, and the option to 'move' to a different container?

            Yes I was considering putting this in. Right click menu for an optional
            extra feature seems reasonable.

            >
            > 'Unequip all' - can that have a 'are you sure?' prompt?!

            Should be possible.

            > Can we have a similar 'equip all' (accepting default locations)?

            I doubt that would work for most characters, that's particularly the
            case when you have multiple weapons and other duplicate equipment. It
            could never get the containers right either.

            >
            > Bio page - I like the option to include/exclude from output, and the 'campaign history' page too.
            Cool
            > Can't add a custom page (button doesn't do anything) or add a custom bio item (button greyed out).

            Yes they are on the todo list. I should add them as Jira issues though.

            Cheers,
            James.
          • FerretDave
            Greetings, Thanks, ran through the latest autobuild now (wasn t expecting to get time to come back on the computer this week!). Do you want JIRA s for these
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 12, 2012
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              Greetings,
              Thanks, ran through the latest autobuild now (wasn't expecting to get time to come back on the computer this week!).

              Do you want JIRA's for these suggestions, or are you maintaining your own TODO list? (I wont be online to raise any now, sorry)
              We've started a Wiki for OS suggestions, is it appropriate for the UI wiki page to have suggestions added similarly?

              Races - any chance of 'jumping' to the relevant item in the list when you press the first character?
              Ie press 'h' to jump down to 'Half elf', this works off the summary tab selection, but not the main lists.
              Same request for just about anything with a list (spells, feats, templates)...

              Skills - while I like the RHS display (matching the OS sheet), can that be selectable so I cam increase ranks from that list, as I most often increase existing skills rather than adding from the untrained list... ah, just noticed the 'gained' button.. yes, like it :-) but... did take a moment to realise, and this is the only screen where a main pane is *not* interactive.
              Perhaps clicking on the RHS could act as a 'big' variant of the 'gained' button, which also shows the 'untrained' skills too, so clicking on the displayed skills RHP toggles the left hand pane to show just the gained and untrained skills (and thus would match the list shown in the RHP).

              Would be nice if details of any 'misc mod' are displayed (bottom right) (as per troubleshooting OS) along with the skill description, so its nice and clear as to what any penalties are.

              There's a load of buttons (all over) that don't have mouseover hints, I'm sure that they will appear in time :-)

              Other comments in line:

              --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:
              > Thanks for the feedback. I've done something like 30 fixes since

              Nice work!

              > > Entering stats on a new character - tabbing through the fields, the initial value (0) isn't selected, so I tab, delete the zero, enter the new number. Any chance it could select the text on entry, then I could just over-type ? Minor niggle I admit :-)
              > > Clicking 'roll' didnt do anything until I'd selected a method, if there's no method defined, can 'roll' bring up that dialog or indicate a method needs to be set? (disable the roll button until method has been selected?)
              >
              > Good suggestions I'll look into those.

              Starting up the UI this time around, I noticed that it rolled my stats for a new character - so it had picked up an updated config file where I'd set my default method.
              So for testing of a new release its worth double checking what a completely clean (*no* config file) install looks like, to get a 'newbies' view of the interface - I know that some settings I normally used meant that I never saw an issue someone else logged on the forum (can't remember what it was now though), but it indicates a principle that with familiarity, we're possibly overlooking some issues.
              For future releases, we should get some unwitting (and unfamiliar) people to install and create a character, and see what issues they encounter. What's obvious to us isn't necessarily so to others...


              > > Races - how about a (default) filter for 'standard' races? I selected SRD3.5 for players, and still have a choice of various snakes and whales(!)
              > > Why have such a large white pane on the right for the selected race? I can only select one, so put it underneath and make the list pane full width.
              > On the summary we sort those up. I don't think that is in place on the
              > races tab. I know that 3.5 doesn't currently match the sorting up code,
              > so I'll adapt the code to suit.

              Summary drop down for race also shows whales and snakes ?


              > > Deities - ...none to select, the 'None' entry states:
              > Yes that needs to be a Data change.. Could you raise a DATA request in
              > Jira please?

              Done

              > > Domains - I like the tick box method, but the ellipses for extra fields doesn't do anything on the right hand pane - would be nice to able to add the 'granted power' to the list and scroll through.
              >
              > Should be doable.
              >
              > > Templates - you can sort by pre-reqs, but how about 'filter' by them too ? I.e only show me the templates I *can* select.
              > > Same idea for classes/feats/abilities too ? (and 'school' for spells too? Be nice to scan through and find all my possible specialist spells.
              > Filters are already in place for abilities and equipment. Spells could
              > be done, but there might be a space issue there. You can certainly sort
              > by school etc.

              There's an awfully big space for 'selected spell sheet', that can be reduced.

              Would be good to filter by 'qualified' on Templates.
              As per the 'expandable equipment' suggestion in a lower paragraph, would be nice to group up templates (all the 'wild shape' in one group and 'assign race type's in another)

              >
              > > Shame we cant double click on a skill to add it, how about right clicking to allow '+1/+2/+3/+4' like the purchase system used to do?
              > > Those are very small arrows to select the numbers, how about using the space for the current paired arrows as just a single '+' button, and put a large '-' button (the same size) at the beginning of the field.
              > > Similarly to the stats entering, if you click on the number, can it select the entire number to simplify over-typing?
              > A few people have commented about this. I think we'll have to revisit
              > the skills tab later and look at what can be done, either by making it
              > like the other tabs, or providing more space in each row.
              >
              >
              > > Spells - double clicking on a spell (to remove it from my selected list) minimises the entire selected tree, which is an annoyance.
              >
              > Yes that one is a major annoyance. Connor is looking into it currently.
              >
              > > Equipment - I'm confused as to what is deciding whether equipment is custom or not, 'sling' is a custom item apparently?
              > Yes they weren't wired up. I've replaced them with Qualified and
              > Affordable filters.

              I think these are *FANTASTIC* - thank you.
              Can we have them NOT exclusive though? I want only the qualified *and* affordable :-)

              These buttons should get used on class & template screens too.

              > > Its not intuitive that right clicking on the 'Type/Name' button can toggle it to 'Name', normally a small down arrow indicates left click to select, and here it's sort, but that matches the other buttons style.
              >
              > Agreed. On my todo list is to look at adding them to the corner menu
              > where you choose extra columns.
              >
              >
              > > Could we get like named items in a tree structure? I.e when viewing by 'Name', there are numerous 'Amulet of blah +x', it would be nice for each of the '+x' to be in a subtree, and to be honest, all the 'amulets of' to be in a tree too - I know (now!) I can change the 'name' to 'type/name', but I want to see the full list of all equipment to pick out the 'odd' things, like chalk, bedroll etc, and have to keep scrolling through pages of magical variants...(boots and bracers)
              > We'd need a firmer definition before it could be implemented. If you
              > could raise a freq with a solid set of rules I'd be happy to look at it.

              Raised: CODE-1246
              Equipment screen to 'group' like named items.
              This concept could be expanded to templates too, as noted above.
              The final display concept I'm thinking here is like the 'Prereg Tree' view for feats.


              >
              > > We've lost the 'clear' button on the filter(s), would be nice to have that back.
              >
              > Agreed.
              >
              > > The new 'equipped' screen is going to take some getting used to... This is probably the screen most used by most users(?) It's where I see, to end up spending most of my time
              > >
              > > Seems odd to be able to expand head/hands and see 'empty slots' indicated, whilst 'carried'/'equipped' and 'not carried' cant be expanded unless they contain something. Could they expand to show 'nothing carried' so its clear that the click to expand has done something?
              >
              > That could be done.
              >
              > > Can we have a view like the old style - just showing all the equipment and its location without having to expand (or have the headings all expanded by default?)
              >
              > I was considering adding an expand all option to that screen as I have
              > the same issue. I think starting with the top level items expanded makes
              > sense too.
              >
              > > Could the headings (Head/Hands etc) be marked (italic?) if they don't contain anything ? Again, this is possible a hang up as I dont see the 'expand' arrows very clearly at all - Nimbus L&F @ 1920x1080, so resolution shouldnt be an issue)
              > That has been fixed - could you give the autobuild a go and see if this
              > is still an issue?

              I can see the arrows clearly now, thanks.

              >
              > > Double clicking on an item pops up a dialog with a 'quantity' entry, selecting ok then equips or unequips that many of that item - if you've only got one of an item, can that default to just doing the move with that one item?
              > > Ah, double clicking from the unequipped pane adds a container choice to that dialog, missed that initially, could we have that same choice when double clicked from the right hand pane, with an extra container choice of 'not equipped' ? This allows to move to containers rather than just unequipping.
              >
              > Interesting idea.

              When the 'equip' dialog first comes up (for an un-equipped item), its not apparent that the container is selectable, once clicked on, it turns to the expected button with a down arrow, can that appear by default for clarity please?

              Can the 'quantity' arrows on that dialog be made larger (replace with seperate +/- and put one at each end of the number display), they are really far too small.

              When selecting an item from the RHS, we want a 'cancel' button (possibly from LHS too for consistency), or at least if we reduce the quantity to zero, then it doesn't move anything.



              > > Similarly, can we have the 'old' right click to select 1/5/10 of an item to do something with, and the option to 'move' to a different container?
              >
              > Yes I was considering putting this in. Right click menu for an optional
              > extra feature seems reasonable.
              >
              > >
              > > 'Unequip all' - can that have a 'are you sure?' prompt?!
              >
              > Should be possible.
              >
              > > Can we have a similar 'equip all' (accepting default locations)?
              >
              > I doubt that would work for most characters, that's particularly the
              > case when you have multiple weapons and other duplicate equipment. It
              > could never get the containers right either.

              I just added a few random items, selected them all (shift click! nice) and clicked 'equip selected', the dialog came up with a suggested location for each (nice again!), and it worked ok.
              I appreciate that it possibly wont get it right for everything every time, but heck, if it gets the bulk of the stuff equipped moderately right then its a good time saver.

              >
              > >
              > > Bio page - I like the option to include/exclude from output, and the 'campaign history' page too.
              > Cool
              > > Can't add a custom page (button doesn't do anything) or add a custom bio item (button greyed out).
              >
              > Yes they are on the todo list. I should add them as Jira issues though.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > James.
              >
            • James Dempsey
              Hi, On 13/02/2012 11:24 AM FerretDave wrote ... I think I have enough to track now - I ll hold off on the wiki flood gates :) ... You can do that with
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 13, 2012
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                Hi,

                On 13/02/2012 11:24 AM FerretDave wrote
                > Greetings,
                > Thanks, ran through the latest autobuild now (wasn't expecting to get time to come back on the computer this week!).
                >
                > Do you want JIRA's for these suggestions, or are you maintaining your own TODO list? (I wont be online to raise any now, sorry)
                > We've started a Wiki for OS suggestions, is it appropriate for the UI wiki page to have suggestions added similarly?

                I think I have enough to track now - I'll hold off on the wiki flood
                gates :)


                > Races - any chance of 'jumping' to the relevant item in the list when you press the first character?
                > Ie press 'h' to jump down to 'Half elf', this works off the summary tab selection, but not the main lists.
                > Same request for just about anything with a list (spells, feats, templates)...

                You can do that with filtering now - I think that's how we should
                support it for now.


                > Skills - while I like the RHS display (matching the OS sheet), can that be selectable so I cam increase ranks from that list, as I most often increase existing skills rather than adding from the untrained list... ah, just noticed the 'gained' button.. yes, like it :-) but... did take a moment to realise, and this is the only screen where a main pane is *not* interactive.
                > Perhaps clicking on the RHS could act as a 'big' variant of the 'gained' button, which also shows the 'untrained' skills too, so clicking on the displayed skills RHP toggles the left hand pane to show just the gained and untrained skills (and thus would match the list shown in the RHP).
                This one has received a lot of response and I think we need to revisit it.


                > Would be nice if details of any 'misc mod' are displayed (bottom right) (as per troubleshooting OS) along with the skill description, so its nice and clear as to what any penalties are.
                Done.

                > There's a load of buttons (all over) that don't have mouseover hints, I'm sure that they will appear in time :-)
                Indeed :)


                > Starting up the UI this time around, I noticed that it rolled my stats for a new character - so it had picked up an updated config file where I'd set my default method.
                > So for testing of a new release its worth double checking what a completely clean (*no* config file) install looks like, to get a 'newbies' view of the interface - I know that some settings I normally used meant that I never saw an issue someone else logged on the forum (can't remember what it was now though), but it indicates a principle that with familiarity, we're possibly overlooking some issues.
                > For future releases, we should get some unwitting (and unfamiliar) people to install and create a character, and see what issues they encounter. What's obvious to us isn't necessarily so to others...
                Yes, we have that covered. The clean settings test is always a part of
                the release process, has been for years.


                >
                >>> Races - how about a (default) filter for 'standard' races? I selected SRD3.5 for players, and still have a choice of various snakes and whales(!)
                >>> Why have such a large white pane on the right for the selected race? I can only select one, so put it underneath and make the list pane full width.
                >> On the summary we sort those up. I don't think that is in place on the
                >> races tab. I know that 3.5 doesn't currently match the sorting up code,
                >> so I'll adapt the code to suit.
                > Summary drop down for race also shows whales and snakes ?
                If you have whales and snakes loaded, sure.


                > Would be good to filter by 'qualified' on Templates. As per the
                > 'expandable equipment' suggestion in a lower paragraph, would be nice
                > to group up templates (all the 'wild shape' in one group and 'assign
                > race type's in another)


                Could you raise a data jira to add types to templates please.


                >
                >>
                >>> Double clicking on an item pops up a dialog with a 'quantity' entry, selecting ok then equips or unequips that many of that item - if you've only got one of an item, can that default to just doing the move with that one item?
                >>> Ah, double clicking from the unequipped pane adds a container choice to that dialog, missed that initially, could we have that same choice when double clicked from the right hand pane, with an extra container choice of 'not equipped' ? This allows to move to containers rather than just unequipping.
                >> Interesting idea.
                > When the 'equip' dialog first comes up (for an un-equipped item), its not apparent that the container is selectable, once clicked on, it turns to the expected button with a down arrow, can that appear by default for clarity please?
                >
                > Can the 'quantity' arrows on that dialog be made larger (replace with seperate +/- and put one at each end of the number display), they are really far too small.
                >
                > When selecting an item from the RHS, we want a 'cancel' button (possibly from LHS too for consistency), or at least if we reduce the quantity to zero, then it doesn't move anything.
                >
                Noted.


                >>> Can we have a similar 'equip all' (accepting default locations)?
                >> I doubt that would work for most characters, that's particularly the
                >> case when you have multiple weapons and other duplicate equipment. It
                >> could never get the containers right either.
                > I just added a few random items, selected them all (shift click! nice) and clicked 'equip selected', the dialog came up with a suggested location for each (nice again!), and it worked ok.
                > I appreciate that it possibly wont get it right for everything every time, but heck, if it gets the bulk of the stuff equipped moderately right then its a good time saver.

                That might work.

                Cheers,
                James.
              • Andrew
                Hi, ... Yes, please do. Us old dogs like the tricks we ve learned and come to know over our loving courtship of PCGen. ;) Cheers, -- Andrew
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 13, 2012
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                  Hi,

                  <SNIP>

                  Yes, please do. Us old dogs like the tricks we've learned and come to know over our loving courtship of PCGen. ;)
                  <SNIP>

                  Cheers,
                  --
                  Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                  Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                  Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                  Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                • Zaister
                  I ve noticed that (with Nimbus on Linux) the outermost tree indicators are back to being almost invisible. They were improved some days ago but that
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 14, 2012
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                    I've noticed that (with Nimbus on Linux) the outermost tree indicators are back to being almost invisible. They were improved some days ago but that improvement is now gone again.
                  • James Dempsey
                    Hi Stefan, On 14/02/2012 10:58 PM Zaister wrote ... There haven t been any changes which should have caused that. I have also confirmed that the original fix
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 14, 2012
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                      Hi Stefan,

                      On 14/02/2012 10:58 PM Zaister wrote
                      > I've noticed that (with Nimbus on Linux) the outermost tree indicators are back to being almost invisible. They were improved some days ago but that improvement is now gone again.
                      There haven't been any changes which should have caused that. I have
                      also confirmed that the original fix is still in place. Are you able to
                      track it down to a revision?

                      Cheers,
                      James.
                    • Stefan Radermacher
                      ... This is weird. I ve reset my sandbox to exactly the revision that contained your change (16056), compiled that (with Sub JDK 1.6) and the arrows are still
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 14, 2012
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                        On 14.02.2012 13:09, James Dempsey wrote:
                        > There haven't been any changes which should have caused that. I have
                        > also confirmed that the original fix is still in place. Are you able to
                        > track it down to a revision?

                        This is weird. I've reset my sandbox to exactly the revision that
                        contained your change (16056), compiled that (with Sub JDK 1.6) and the
                        arrows are still barely visible. This doesn't even apply to Nimbus
                        alone, in Kunststoff this now happens too. Weird. Going back to the most
                        current version and compiling with Icedtea 1.7 again changes nothing.

                        BTW: The GUI does not seem to remember the display view setting on the
                        skill tab when I set it to Type/Name.

                        Stefan.
                      • James Dempsey
                        Hi Stefan, On 15/02/2012 12:08 AM Stefan Radermacher wrote ... That is sounding very much like a local issue. One way to eliminate the build cycle would be to
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 14, 2012
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                          Hi Stefan,

                          On 15/02/2012 12:08 AM Stefan Radermacher wrote
                          > On 14.02.2012 13:09, James Dempsey wrote:
                          >> There haven't been any changes which should have caused that. I have
                          >> also confirmed that the original fix is still in place. Are you able to
                          >> track it down to a revision?
                          > This is weird. I've reset my sandbox to exactly the revision that
                          > contained your change (16056), compiled that (with Sub JDK 1.6) and the
                          > arrows are still barely visible. This doesn't even apply to Nimbus
                          > alone, in Kunststoff this now happens too. Weird. Going back to the most
                          > current version and compiling with Icedtea 1.7 again changes nothing.

                          That is sounding very much like a local issue. One way to eliminate the
                          build cycle would be to try the autobuild.

                          > BTW: The GUI does not seem to remember the display view setting on the
                          > skill tab when I set it to Type/Name.

                          No, currently none of these settings are recalled. There is a jira to
                          add that ability.

                          Cheers,
                          James.
                        • James Dempsey
                          Hi Stefan, On 15/02/2012 3:28 PM James Dempsey wrote ... In my pre-release testing I managed to reproduce this, but only under Java 7. See
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 18, 2012
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                            Hi Stefan,

                            On 15/02/2012 3:28 PM James Dempsey wrote
                            > Hi Stefan,
                            >
                            > On 15/02/2012 12:08 AM Stefan Radermacher wrote
                            >> On 14.02.2012 13:09, James Dempsey wrote:
                            >>> There haven't been any changes which should have caused that. I have
                            >>> also confirmed that the original fix is still in place. Are you able to
                            >>> track it down to a revision?
                            >> This is weird. I've reset my sandbox to exactly the revision that
                            >> contained your change (16056), compiled that (with Sub JDK 1.6) and the
                            >> arrows are still barely visible. This doesn't even apply to Nimbus
                            >> alone, in Kunststoff this now happens too. Weird. Going back to the most
                            >> current version and compiling with Icedtea 1.7 again changes nothing.
                            > That is sounding very much like a local issue. One way to eliminate the
                            > build cycle would be to try the autobuild.

                            In my pre-release testing I managed to reproduce this, but only under
                            Java 7. See http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/CODE-1177 for the details and
                            fix. Hopefully it should be fixed for you now too. Could you let me know
                            please?

                            Cheers,
                            James.
                          • FerretDave
                            ... for players, and still have a choice of various snakes and whales(!) ... If you have whales and snakes loaded, sure. Just loading the standard set of (35e)
                            Message 13 of 13 , Mar 15, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Just coming back to one point here:

                              >
                              >>> Races - how about a (default) filter for 'standard' races? I selected SRD3.5
                              for players, and still have a choice of various snakes and whales(!)
                              > Summary drop down for race also shows whales and snakes ?
                              If you have whales and snakes loaded, sure.

                              Just loading the standard set of (35e) 'RSRD Basic', I get Whales, and snakes in the race list.

                              These are there for animal companions, familiars, mounts and presumably (whales!) for druid wildshape.

                              I only want to create a basic character, a newbie would only really want to see human/dwarf/elf etc - the standard races.

                              I've JIRA'd a request to set VISIBLE:NO on races, but realise now that if we want something visible for animal companions etc, we have to have them visible on one screen, but we (well, I!) don't want them visible on the race screen.

                              How can we restrict the view (optionally, preferable as a default) to just 'standard' PC races?

                              Ah...after typing the above, I just found the 'sort races: Race Type/Name' option, that's what I wanted. But can we make that a default view for newbies?

                              Cheers
                              D

                              --- In pcgen_developers@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi,
                              >
                              > On 13/02/2012 11:24 AM FerretDave wrote
                              > > Greetings,
                              > > Thanks, ran through the latest autobuild now (wasn't expecting to get time to come back on the computer this week!).
                              > >
                              > > Do you want JIRA's for these suggestions, or are you maintaining your own TODO list? (I wont be online to raise any now, sorry)
                              > > We've started a Wiki for OS suggestions, is it appropriate for the UI wiki page to have suggestions added similarly?
                              >
                              > I think I have enough to track now - I'll hold off on the wiki flood
                              > gates :)
                              >
                              >
                              > > Races - any chance of 'jumping' to the relevant item in the list when you press the first character?
                              > > Ie press 'h' to jump down to 'Half elf', this works off the summary tab selection, but not the main lists.
                              > > Same request for just about anything with a list (spells, feats, templates)...
                              >
                              > You can do that with filtering now - I think that's how we should
                              > support it for now.
                              >
                              >
                              > > Skills - while I like the RHS display (matching the OS sheet), can that be selectable so I cam increase ranks from that list, as I most often increase existing skills rather than adding from the untrained list... ah, just noticed the 'gained' button.. yes, like it :-) but... did take a moment to realise, and this is the only screen where a main pane is *not* interactive.
                              > > Perhaps clicking on the RHS could act as a 'big' variant of the 'gained' button, which also shows the 'untrained' skills too, so clicking on the displayed skills RHP toggles the left hand pane to show just the gained and untrained skills (and thus would match the list shown in the RHP).
                              > This one has received a lot of response and I think we need to revisit it.
                              >
                              >
                              > > Would be nice if details of any 'misc mod' are displayed (bottom right) (as per troubleshooting OS) along with the skill description, so its nice and clear as to what any penalties are.
                              > Done.
                              >
                              > > There's a load of buttons (all over) that don't have mouseover hints, I'm sure that they will appear in time :-)
                              > Indeed :)
                              >
                              >
                              > > Starting up the UI this time around, I noticed that it rolled my stats for a new character - so it had picked up an updated config file where I'd set my default method.
                              > > So for testing of a new release its worth double checking what a completely clean (*no* config file) install looks like, to get a 'newbies' view of the interface - I know that some settings I normally used meant that I never saw an issue someone else logged on the forum (can't remember what it was now though), but it indicates a principle that with familiarity, we're possibly overlooking some issues.
                              > > For future releases, we should get some unwitting (and unfamiliar) people to install and create a character, and see what issues they encounter. What's obvious to us isn't necessarily so to others...
                              > Yes, we have that covered. The clean settings test is always a part of
                              > the release process, has been for years.
                              >
                              >
                              > >
                              > >>> Races - how about a (default) filter for 'standard' races? I selected SRD3.5 for players, and still have a choice of various snakes and whales(!)
                              > >>> Why have such a large white pane on the right for the selected race? I can only select one, so put it underneath and make the list pane full width.
                              > >> On the summary we sort those up. I don't think that is in place on the
                              > >> races tab. I know that 3.5 doesn't currently match the sorting up code,
                              > >> so I'll adapt the code to suit.
                              > > Summary drop down for race also shows whales and snakes ?
                              > If you have whales and snakes loaded, sure.
                              >
                              >
                              > > Would be good to filter by 'qualified' on Templates. As per the
                              > > 'expandable equipment' suggestion in a lower paragraph, would be nice
                              > > to group up templates (all the 'wild shape' in one group and 'assign
                              > > race type's in another)
                              >
                              >
                              > Could you raise a data jira to add types to templates please.
                              >
                              >
                              > >
                              > >>
                              > >>> Double clicking on an item pops up a dialog with a 'quantity' entry, selecting ok then equips or unequips that many of that item - if you've only got one of an item, can that default to just doing the move with that one item?
                              > >>> Ah, double clicking from the unequipped pane adds a container choice to that dialog, missed that initially, could we have that same choice when double clicked from the right hand pane, with an extra container choice of 'not equipped' ? This allows to move to containers rather than just unequipping.
                              > >> Interesting idea.
                              > > When the 'equip' dialog first comes up (for an un-equipped item), its not apparent that the container is selectable, once clicked on, it turns to the expected button with a down arrow, can that appear by default for clarity please?
                              > >
                              > > Can the 'quantity' arrows on that dialog be made larger (replace with seperate +/- and put one at each end of the number display), they are really far too small.
                              > >
                              > > When selecting an item from the RHS, we want a 'cancel' button (possibly from LHS too for consistency), or at least if we reduce the quantity to zero, then it doesn't move anything.
                              > >
                              > Noted.
                              >
                              >
                              > >>> Can we have a similar 'equip all' (accepting default locations)?
                              > >> I doubt that would work for most characters, that's particularly the
                              > >> case when you have multiple weapons and other duplicate equipment. It
                              > >> could never get the containers right either.
                              > > I just added a few random items, selected them all (shift click! nice) and clicked 'equip selected', the dialog came up with a suggested location for each (nice again!), and it worked ok.
                              > > I appreciate that it possibly wont get it right for everything every time, but heck, if it gets the bulk of the stuff equipped moderately right then its a good time saver.
                              >
                              > That might work.
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              > James.
                              >
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