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Re: [pcgen] NUMATTACKS bug

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  • Michael W. Fender
    Accessing archive from cantarellus... Archive found in file 1701.1342.20866 ... Using r9016... Test subject: TN all 10 stats Adult Arrowhawk Note: Choosing
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 17, 2009
      Accessing archive from cantarellus...
      Archive found in file 1701.1342.20866

      > Looking at NUMATTACKS of WEAPON tag and it gives wrong data
      > If you try to create Arrowhawk (Adult) which has an electric beam OR
      > a bite you get a nice and good representation of the creature and in
      > the export it list all the weapons (electric beam and bite) but for
      > each one it states that you get 2 attacks and is not true.
      > Also with other data it seems that it produce the wrong number.
      > It should produce the attack you get with the weapon and not the sum
      > of the attacks (or weapons).
      > Can someone confirm the bug?

      Using r9016...
      Test subject:
      TN all 10 stats Adult Arrowhawk
      Note: Choosing this race automatically apples 7 levels of Outsider

      I kinda got a confirmation. On troubleshooting.htm, it indeed lists each
      having 2 attacks:
      Attacks Electricity Ray Ranged; Number of Attacks: 2; Crit: 20; Crit
      Multiplier: x2; Range Increment: 10 ft. To Hit: +12 = +7[BAB] +5[STAT]
      +0[SIZE] Damage: 2d8;
      Bite Melee; Number of Attacks: 2; Crit: 20; Crit Multiplier: x2; Reach: 5
      ft. To Hit: +14 = +7[BAB] +2[STAT] +0[SIZE] +5[MISC] Damage: 1d8+3

      The lines in the LST granting the attacks are:
      NATURALATTACKS:Bite,Weapon.Natural.Melee.Bludgeoning.Piercing.Slashing,1,1d8
      NATURALATTACKS:Electricity ray,Weapon.Natural.Ranged.Piercing,1,2d8
      ...They're put in separately. Hmm.

      However, looking on preview.htm, the weapon tables show only one attack each.

      Trying this with another test subject:
      TN all 10 stats Minotaur
      Note: Choosing this race automatically applies 6 level of Montrous Humanoid.

      OK, troubleshooting says...
      Attacks Gore Melee; Number of Attacks: 2; Crit: 20; Crit Multiplier: x2;
      Reach: 10 ft. To Hit: +9 = +6[BAB] +4[STAT] -1[SIZE] Damage: 1d8+4

      No mention of the Charge in the attacks! What's more, preview.html doesn't
      show a weapon block for it either! The line for the Minotaur natural attacks
      is:
      NATURALATTACKS:Charge,Weapon.Natural.Melee.Piercing,*1,4d6|
      Gore,Weapon.Natural.Melee.Piercing,*1,1d8

      This one's together.

      Eddy? Tom? Any idea? Did something get changed with NATURALATTACKS
      recently?
      --
      Fluxxdog

      The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
      think.
    • Andrew Maitland
      The tag syntax is off.... *1 not 1 is probably the reason for the miscalculation. Without the * with increased HD or class levels the attack WILL change
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 17, 2009
        The tag syntax is off.... '*1' not '1' is probably the reason for the miscalculation. Without the '*' with increased HD or class levels the attack WILL change per the BAB progression.

        Having those as separate should be fine, they indicate two different mode of attacks that are not used together. (Hence no -5 penalty)

        When combined in one tag, that means the attacks are part of a full attack combo - Bite/Claw/Claw... In this case the monster may either attack with one or the other. It also calculates the secondary attacks at the defined -5 penalty.

        Does that clear it up for you Michael?

        -Andrew




        ________________________________
        From: Michael W. Fender <fluxxdog@...>
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 7:13:39 AM
        Subject: Re: [pcgen] NUMATTACKS bug

        Accessing archive from cantarellus...
        Archive found in file 1701.1342.20866

        > Looking at NUMATTACKS of WEAPON tag and it gives wrong data
        > If you try to create  Arrowhawk (Adult) which has an electric beam OR
        > a bite you get a nice and good representation of the creature and in
        > the export it list all the weapons (electric beam and bite) but for
        > each one it states that you get 2 attacks and is not true.
        > Also with other data it seems that it produce the wrong number.
        > It should produce the attack you get with the weapon and not the sum
        > of the attacks (or weapons).
        > Can someone confirm the bug?

        Using r9016...
        Test subject:
        TN all 10 stats Adult Arrowhawk
        Note: Choosing this race automatically apples 7 levels of Outsider

        I kinda got a confirmation.  On troubleshooting.htm, it indeed lists each
        having 2 attacks:
        Attacks Electricity Ray  Ranged;  Number of Attacks: 2; Crit: 20; Crit
        Multiplier: x2; Range Increment: 10 ft. To Hit: +12 = +7[BAB] +5[STAT]
        +0[SIZE] Damage: 2d8;
        Bite  Melee;  Number of Attacks: 2; Crit: 20; Crit Multiplier: x2; Reach: 5
        ft. To Hit: +14 = +7[BAB] +2[STAT] +0[SIZE] +5[MISC] Damage: 1d8+3

        The lines in the LST granting the attacks are:
        NATURALATTACKS:Bite,Weapon.Natural.Melee.Bludgeoning.Piercing.Slashing,1,1d8   
        NATURALATTACKS:Electricity ray,Weapon.Natural.Ranged.Piercing,1,2d8
        ...They're put in separately.  Hmm.

        However, looking on preview.htm, the weapon tables show only one attack each.

        Trying this with another test subject:
        TN all 10 stats Minotaur
        Note: Choosing this race automatically applies 6 level of Montrous Humanoid.

        OK, troubleshooting says...
        Attacks Gore  Melee;  Number of Attacks: 2; Crit: 20; Crit Multiplier: x2;
        Reach: 10 ft. To Hit: +9 = +6[BAB] +4[STAT] -1[SIZE] Damage: 1d8+4

        No mention of the Charge in the attacks!  What's more, preview.html doesn't
        show a weapon block for it either!  The line for the Minotaur natural attacks
        is:
        NATURALATTACKS:Charge,Weapon.Natural.Melee.Piercing,*1,4d6|
        Gore,Weapon.Natural.Melee.Piercing,*1,1d8

        This one's together.

        Eddy?  Tom?  Any idea?  Did something get changed with NATURALATTACKS
        recently?
        --
        Fluxxdog

        The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
        think.


        ------------------------------------

        PCGen's Release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        PCGen's Wiki: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/
        PCGen's Roadmap: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/Roadmap
        PCGen's Alpha Build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/
        PCGen's Data Help Grp: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/Yahoo! Groups Links



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael W. Fender
        Accessing archive from Andrew Maitland... Archive found in file 31634.17945.22128 ... OK, so typo in the Adult Arrowhawk entry. ... No, it still doesn t
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 17, 2009
          Accessing archive from Andrew Maitland...
          Archive found in file 31634.17945.22128

          > The tag syntax is off.... '*1' not '1' is probably the reason for the
          > miscalculation. Without the '*' with increased HD or class levels the
          > attack WILL change per the BAB progression.

          OK, so typo in the Adult Arrowhawk entry.

          > When combined in one tag, that means the attacks are part of a full attack
          > combo - Bite/Claw/Claw... In this case the monster may either attack with
          > one or the other. It also calculates the secondary attacks at the defined
          > -5 penalty.
          >
          > Does that clear it up for you Michael?

          No, it still doesn't explain why the Minotaur isn't getting his Charge attack
          --
          Fluxxdog

          The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
          think.
        • Eddy Anthony
          ... I just looked and the * is in place like it should be. ... A bug I found may be the cause. The equipping slots for natural attacks seem to have gone away.
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 17, 2009
            Michael W. Fender scribed:

            >> The tag syntax is off.... '*1' not '1' is probably the reason for the
            >> miscalculation. Without the '*' with increased HD or class levels the
            >> attack WILL change per the BAB progression.
            >
            > OK, so typo in the Adult Arrowhawk entry.

            I just looked and the * is in place like it should be.

            >> When combined in one tag, that means the attacks are part of a full attack
            >> combo - Bite/Claw/Claw... In this case the monster may either attack with
            >> one or the other. It also calculates the secondary attacks at the defined
            >> -5 penalty.
            >>
            >> Does that clear it up for you Michael?
            >
            > No, it still doesn't explain why the Minotaur isn't getting his Charge attack

            A bug I found may be the cause. The equipping slots for natural attacks seem
            to have gone away. If you create a Default Minotaur he gets his attacks but
            if you check the are equipped as 'Carried'. If you remove and try to add the
            it does so as if it were a weapon instead of equipping to the Primary or
            Secondary natural attack slots as it should. It does this when creating a
            minotaur without using a kit too.

            Aside: The Arrowhawk demonstrates a limitation in PCGen, it has 2 Primary
            natural attacks, which is something we can't do in PCGen. The NATURALATTACKS
            tag sets the first attack as primary and the rest as secondary, this means
            if a creature has more than 1 primary attack or less than 1 (see Camel) then
            the numbers will be off. In those cases we use BONUS:WEAPONPROF to adjust
            the numbers to what they should be. You can give a create two Primary
            attacks by using two NATURALATTACKS tags, but then you can only equip one at
            a time. This is an area that needs work in the future.
            --
            ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
            ~ PCGen Board of Directors
            ~ Content Silverback, Chair Second
          • Andrew Maitland
            Hey Eddy, That would be a new bug then, as I have used the Natural attacks tag for two different primary attacks without issue. A ranged Attack or a
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 17, 2009
              Hey Eddy,

              That would be a new bug then, as I have used the Natural attacks tag for two different primary attacks without issue.

              A ranged Attack or a Bite/Claw/Claw combo... all displayed as they should... Haven't looked at the particular character in a while though. Though in that case I did have the 'carried' set to as if equipped house rule, so that may have been why it seemed to work for me.

              -Andrew



              ________________________________
              From: Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...>
              To: PCGen Groups <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:28:43 PM
              Subject: Re: [pcgen] NUMATTACKS bug

              Michael W. Fender scribed:

              >> The tag syntax is off.... '*1' not '1' is probably the reason for the
              >> miscalculation. Without the '*' with increased HD or class levels the
              >> attack WILL change per the BAB progression.
              >
              > OK, so typo in the Adult Arrowhawk entry.

              I just looked and the * is in place like it should be.

              >> When combined in one tag, that means the attacks are part of a full attack
              >> combo - Bite/Claw/Claw... In this case the monster may either attack with
              >> one or the other. It also calculates the secondary attacks at the defined
              >> -5 penalty.
              >>
              >> Does that clear it up for you Michael?
              >
              > No, it still doesn't explain why the Minotaur isn't getting his Charge attack

              A bug I found may be the cause. The equipping slots for natural attacks seem
              to have gone away. If you create a Default Minotaur he gets his attacks but
              if you check the are equipped as 'Carried'. If you remove and try to add the
              it does so as if it were a weapon instead of equipping to the Primary or
              Secondary natural attack slots as it should. It does this when creating a
              minotaur without using a kit too.

              Aside: The Arrowhawk demonstrates a limitation in PCGen, it has 2 Primary
              natural attacks, which is something we can't do in PCGen. The NATURALATTACKS
              tag sets the first attack as primary and the rest as secondary, this means
              if a creature has more than 1 primary attack or less than 1 (see Camel) then
              the numbers will be off. In those cases we use BONUS:WEAPONPROF to adjust
              the numbers to what they should be. You can give a create two Primary
              attacks by using two NATURALATTACKS tags, but then you can only equip one at
              a time. This is an area that needs work in the future.
              --
              ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
              ~ PCGen Board of Directors
              ~ Content Silverback, Chair Second



              ------------------------------------

              PCGen's Release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              PCGen's Wiki: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/
              PCGen's Roadmap: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/Roadmap
              PCGen's Alpha Build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
              PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/
              PCGen's Data Help Grp: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/Yahoo! Groups Links



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Eddy Anthony
              The current bug causes the default kits to equip natural attacks to Carried which causes all attacks to output with primary attack numbers. Try creating a
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 17, 2009
                The current bug causes the default kits to equip natural attacks to
                'Carried' which causes all attacks to output with primary attack numbers.
                Try creating a creature with secondary attacks and check it against the
                source text.
                --
                ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                ~ PCGen Board of Directors
                ~ Content Silverback, Chair Second

                Andrew Maitland scribed:

                > Hey Eddy,
                >
                > That would be a new bug then, as I have used the Natural attacks tag for two
                > different primary attacks without issue.
                >
                > A ranged Attack or a Bite/Claw/Claw combo... all displayed as they should...
                > Haven't looked at the particular character in a while though. Though in that
                > case I did have the 'carried' set to as if equipped house rule, so that may
                > have been why it seemed to work for me.
                >
                > -Andrew
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...>
                > To: PCGen Groups <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:28:43 PM
                > Subject: Re: [pcgen] NUMATTACKS bug
                >
                > Michael W. Fender scribed:
                >
                >>> The tag syntax is off.... '*1' not '1' is probably the reason for the
                >>> miscalculation. Without the '*' with increased HD or class levels the
                >>> attack WILL change per the BAB progression.
                >>
                >> OK, so typo in the Adult Arrowhawk entry.
                >
                > I just looked and the * is in place like it should be.
                >
                >>> When combined in one tag, that means the attacks are part of a full attack
                >>> combo - Bite/Claw/Claw... In this case the monster may either attack with
                >>> one or the other. It also calculates the secondary attacks at the defined
                >>> -5 penalty.
                >>>
                >>> Does that clear it up for you Michael?
                >>
                >> No, it still doesn't explain why the Minotaur isn't getting his Charge attack
                >
                > A bug I found may be the cause. The equipping slots for natural attacks seem
                > to have gone away. If you create a Default Minotaur he gets his attacks but
                > if you check the are equipped as 'Carried'. If you remove and try to add the
                > it does so as if it were a weapon instead of equipping to the Primary or
                > Secondary natural attack slots as it should. It does this when creating a
                > minotaur without using a kit too.
                >
                > Aside: The Arrowhawk demonstrates a limitation in PCGen, it has 2 Primary
                > natural attacks, which is something we can't do in PCGen. The NATURALATTACKS
                > tag sets the first attack as primary and the rest as secondary, this means
                > if a creature has more than 1 primary attack or less than 1 (see Camel) then
                > the numbers will be off. In those cases we use BONUS:WEAPONPROF to adjust
                > the numbers to what they should be. You can give a create two Primary
                > attacks by using two NATURALATTACKS tags, but then you can only equip one at
                > a time. This is an area that needs work in the future.
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