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[Tom] Abilities follow up

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  • Andrew Maitland
    Hi Tom, Didn t want to keep you waiting till I get off, so here is the relevant code I m using FYI this is from recent memory (I m on a company computer and
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 20, 2008
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      Hi Tom,

      Didn't want to keep you waiting till I get off, so here is the relevant "code" I'm using
      FYI this is from recent memory (I'm on a company computer and my flash drive went on the fritz). I'll double check these when I have a free moment.

      ABILITYCATEGORY:Deity Granted
      CATEGORY:FEAT
      TYPE:NONE
      DISPLAYLOCATION:Feats
      EDITABLE:YES
      EDITPOOL:YES
      VISIBLE:QUALIFY
      (Did the type to see if that was an issue)


      ABILITYCATEGORY:Willow Blade Feat Free
      CATEGORY:FEAT
      DISPLAYLOCATION:Feats
      EDITABLE:YES
      EDITPOOL:YES
      VISIBLE:QUALIFY

      I'm finding wierd bugs as I try and get my old campaign up to 5.15 standards. I'll keep you posted.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Tir Gwaith
      ... If you do an ABILITYCATEGORY with CATEGORY and no TYPE, it is considered Parent. CATEGORY:FEAT has the Parent FEAT for backward compatibility. Setting
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 21, 2008
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        On 8/20/08, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
        > Hi Tom,
        >
        > Didn't want to keep you waiting till I get off, so here is the relevant "code" I'm using
        > FYI this is from recent memory (I'm on a company computer and my flash drive went on the fritz). I'll double check these when I have a free moment.
        >
        > ABILITYCATEGORY:Deity Granted
        > CATEGORY:FEAT
        > TYPE:NONE
        > DISPLAYLOCATION:Feats
        > EDITABLE:YES
        > EDITPOOL:YES
        > VISIBLE:QUALIFY
        > (Did the type to see if that was an issue)

        If you do an ABILITYCATEGORY with CATEGORY and no TYPE, it is
        considered Parent. CATEGORY:FEAT has the Parent "FEAT" for backward
        compatibility. Setting it without that will cause issues. If that
        wasn't your issue (I don't know the previous thread), please ignore.
        :p

        > ABILITYCATEGORY:Willow Blade Feat Free
        > CATEGORY:FEAT
        > DISPLAYLOCATION:Feats
        > EDITABLE:YES
        > EDITPOOL:YES
        > VISIBLE:QUALIFY
        >
        > I'm finding wierd bugs as I try and get my old campaign up to 5.15 standards. I'll keep you posted.
        >

        See above, this is a data-code error. Please put a TYPE in there, or
        you are defining multiple parent ABILITYCATEGORYs for the same
        CATEGORY. If you want to give an open feat, then your Willow Blade or
        whatever should just have BONUS:ABILITYPOOL|FEAT|x

        --
        Tir Gwaith
        PCGen LST Chimp
      • Andrew Maitland
        ~ Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) ~ Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors ~ Data Chimp, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Tamarin Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey ...
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 21, 2008
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          ~ Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
          ~ Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
          ~ Data Chimp, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Tamarin
          "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



          Tir Gwaith wrote:
          > On 8/20/08, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
          >
          >> Hi Tom,
          >>
          >> Didn't want to keep you waiting till I get off, so here is the relevant "code" I'm using
          >> FYI this is from recent memory (I'm on a company computer and my flash drive went on the fritz). I'll double check these when I have a free moment.
          >>
          >> ABILITYCATEGORY:Deity Granted
          >> CATEGORY:FEAT
          >> TYPE:NONE
          >> DISPLAYLOCATION:Feats
          >> EDITABLE:YES
          >> EDITPOOL:YES
          >> VISIBLE:QUALIFY
          >> (Did the type to see if that was an issue)
          >>
          >
          > If you do an ABILITYCATEGORY with CATEGORY and no TYPE, it is
          > considered Parent. CATEGORY:FEAT has the Parent "FEAT" for backward
          > compatibility. Setting it without that will cause issues. If that
          > wasn't your issue (I don't know the previous thread), please ignore.
          > :p
          >
          >
          >> ABILITYCATEGORY:Willow Blade Feat Free
          >> CATEGORY:FEAT
          >> DISPLAYLOCATION:Feats
          >> EDITABLE:YES
          >> EDITPOOL:YES
          >> VISIBLE:QUALIFY
          >>
          >> I'm finding wierd bugs as I try and get my old campaign up to 5.15 standards. I'll keep you posted.
          >>
          >>
          >
          > See above, this is a data-code error. Please put a TYPE in there, or
          > you are defining multiple parent ABILITYCATEGORYs for the same
          > CATEGORY. If you want to give an open feat, then your Willow Blade or
          > whatever should just have BONUS:ABILITYPOOL|FEAT|x
          >

          Actually I'm trying to assign specific feats, akin to Fighter Feat Pool.
          So how would one code it as from an item granting the feat?
          I don't want to clutter up the general feat area, and wanted to know
          where the feats and powers were coming from. So, if character x, uses
          item y, they are granted abilities from z pool.

          So are we not supposed to do things like:
          ABILITY:Fighter Feat|VIRTUAL|Great Cleave
          ABILITY:Wizard Feat|AUTOMATIC|My Metamagic

          Or does the TYPE fix that issue of mine? Cause I added a TYPE:None and I
          still get the error from all.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tir Gwaith
          ... The TYPE should fix most of that (I don t know what specific error you are getting, or what you are using). ABILITY:Fighter Feat|VIRTUAL|Great Cleave
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 21, 2008
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            >>> ABILITYCATEGORY:Willow Blade Feat Free
            >>> CATEGORY:FEAT
            >>> DISPLAYLOCATION:Feats
            >>> EDITABLE:YES
            >>> EDITPOOL:YES
            >>> VISIBLE:QUALIFY
            >>>
            >>> I'm finding wierd bugs as I try and get my old campaign up to 5.15 standards. I'll keep you posted.
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >> See above, this is a data-code error. Please put a TYPE in there, or
            >> you are defining multiple parent ABILITYCATEGORYs for the same
            >> CATEGORY. If you want to give an open feat, then your Willow Blade or
            >> whatever should just have BONUS:ABILITYPOOL|FEAT|x
            >>
            >
            > Actually I'm trying to assign specific feats, akin to Fighter Feat Pool.
            > So how would one code it as from an item granting the feat?
            > I don't want to clutter up the general feat area, and wanted to know
            > where the feats and powers were coming from. So, if character x, uses
            > item y, they are granted abilities from z pool.
            >
            > So are we not supposed to do things like:
            > ABILITY:Fighter Feat|VIRTUAL|Great Cleave
            > ABILITY:Wizard Feat|AUTOMATIC|My Metamagic
            >
            > Or does the TYPE fix that issue of mine? Cause I added a TYPE:None and I
            > still get the error from all.

            The TYPE should fix most of that (I don't know what specific error you
            are getting, or what you are using).

            ABILITY:Fighter Feat|VIRTUAL|Great Cleave should work fine (so long as
            Great Cleave is a FEAT, TYPE:Fighter. :p)
            Same with the Wizard feat.

            What you need to set up a Child ABILITYCATEGORY is a CATEGORY / TYPE
            pairing. Even if you do something like
            TYPE:General.Metamagic.ItemCreation.Whatever. The POOL will be
            separate, and will work generally like the normal Feat Pool. That is
            how I would use your Willow Blade Feat Free thing. Just set it to
            most TYPEs.

            --
            Tir Gwaith
            PCGen LST Chimp
          • Tom Parker
            ... I m not entirely sure of that. It s weird to have something without a TYPE (subset == superset), but not invalid. I believe setting the name to equal the
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 21, 2008
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              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
              > Tir Gwaith wrote:
              > > If you do an ABILITYCATEGORY with CATEGORY and no TYPE, it is
              > > considered Parent. CATEGORY:FEAT has the Parent "FEAT" for backward
              > > compatibility. Setting it without that will cause issues.

              I'm not entirely sure of that. It's weird to have something without a
              TYPE (subset == superset), but not invalid.

              I believe setting the name to equal the CATEGORY is what defines a
              "parent" or "universalset" (depending on your terminology)

              TP.
            • Tir Gwaith
              ... It is not. Just tested, and it works like James explained (which I described above). I ve got several Parent / UniversalSet usages where the
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 21, 2008
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                On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:40 PM, Tom Parker <thpr@...> wrote:
                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
                >> Tir Gwaith wrote:
                >> > If you do an ABILITYCATEGORY with CATEGORY and no TYPE, it is
                >> > considered Parent. CATEGORY:FEAT has the Parent "FEAT" for backward
                >> > compatibility. Setting it without that will cause issues.
                >
                > I'm not entirely sure of that. It's weird to have something without a
                > TYPE (subset == superset), but not invalid.
                >
                > I believe setting the name to equal the CATEGORY is what defines a
                > "parent" or "universalset" (depending on your terminology)

                It is not. Just tested, and it works like James explained (which I
                described above).

                I've got several "Parent" / "UniversalSet" usages where the
                ABILITYCATEGORY <> CATEGORY, and it works fine.

                However, put a Child set (using TYPE) w/o having a Parent defined w/o
                TYPE, and PCGen doesn't fail, but starts getting wonky. Hence my
                calling them Parent and Child. Children must have "TYPE", Parent
                objects must not.

                Debug window will show:
                SEVERE pcgen.core.GameMode Attempt to fetch AbilityCategory:
                CATEGORY=<whatever>... but it does not exist
                EVERE pcgen.gui.PCGen_Frame1$WaitCursorEventQueue Uncaught error - ignoring
                java.lang.NullPointerException
                . . .


                --
                Tir Gwaith
                PCGen LST Chimp
              • Tom Parker
                ... backward ... ignoring ... Then we need go back to _experimental and revive this thread: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/message/10147
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 21, 2008
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                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Tir Gwaith" <Tir.Gwaith@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:40 PM, Tom Parker <thpr@...> wrote:
                  > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@> wrote:
                  > >> Tir Gwaith wrote:
                  > >> > If you do an ABILITYCATEGORY with CATEGORY and no TYPE, it is
                  > >> > considered Parent. CATEGORY:FEAT has the Parent "FEAT" for
                  backward
                  > >> > compatibility. Setting it without that will cause issues.
                  > >
                  > > I'm not entirely sure of that. It's weird to have something without a
                  > > TYPE (subset == superset), but not invalid.
                  > >
                  > > I believe setting the name to equal the CATEGORY is what defines a
                  > > "parent" or "universalset" (depending on your terminology)
                  >
                  > It is not. Just tested, and it works like James explained (which I
                  > described above).
                  >
                  > I've got several "Parent" / "UniversalSet" usages where the
                  > ABILITYCATEGORY <> CATEGORY, and it works fine.
                  >
                  > However, put a Child set (using TYPE) w/o having a Parent defined w/o
                  > TYPE, and PCGen doesn't fail, but starts getting wonky. Hence my
                  > calling them Parent and Child. Children must have "TYPE", Parent
                  > objects must not.
                  >
                  > Debug window will show:
                  > SEVERE pcgen.core.GameMode Attempt to fetch AbilityCategory:
                  > CATEGORY=<whatever>... but it does not exist
                  > EVERE pcgen.gui.PCGen_Frame1$WaitCursorEventQueue Uncaught error -
                  ignoring
                  > java.lang.NullPointerException
                  > . . .

                  Then we need go back to _experimental and revive this thread:
                  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/message/10147

                  ...because if what you're saying is true then the description in the
                  post above (which we used as a level-setting discussion about how
                  Ability Categories work) is wrong, and thus how 5.16 and follow-on
                  revisions are being architected based on incorrect design assumptions.

                  TP.
                • Tom Parker
                  ... ignoring ... I guess I should also ask, is this 5.14 or 5.15? 5.14 is the litmus test for good behavior. TP.
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 21, 2008
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                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Tir Gwaith" <Tir.Gwaith@...> wrote:
                    > Debug window will show:
                    > SEVERE pcgen.core.GameMode Attempt to fetch AbilityCategory:
                    > CATEGORY=<whatever>... but it does not exist
                    > EVERE pcgen.gui.PCGen_Frame1$WaitCursorEventQueue Uncaught error -
                    ignoring
                    > java.lang.NullPointerException
                    > . . .

                    I guess I should also ask, is this 5.14 or 5.15? 5.14 is the litmus
                    test for good behavior.

                    TP.
                  • Tir Gwaith
                    ... 5.14.1 (I m doing most of my development there). And I didn t mean to mess anything up. Just going of the usage explained to me by James when I couldn t
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 21, 2008
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                      On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Tom Parker <thpr@...> wrote:
                      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Tir Gwaith" <Tir.Gwaith@...> wrote:
                      >> Debug window will show:
                      >> SEVERE pcgen.core.GameMode Attempt to fetch AbilityCategory:
                      >> CATEGORY=<whatever>... but it does not exist
                      >> EVERE pcgen.gui.PCGen_Frame1$WaitCursorEventQueue Uncaught error -
                      > ignoring
                      >> java.lang.NullPointerException
                      >> . . .
                      >
                      > I guess I should also ask, is this 5.14 or 5.15? 5.14 is the litmus
                      > test for good behavior.

                      5.14.1 (I'm doing most of my development there).

                      And I didn't mean to mess anything up. Just going of the usage
                      explained to me by James when I couldn't get things to work way back
                      when. At the time, I was missing a "Special Ability" ABILITYCATEGORY
                      for all of my different sub-abilities.


                      --
                      Tir Gwaith
                      PCGen LST Chimp
                    • Andrew Maitland
                      Yes, the docs would support that, as does my memory of the discussion. TYPE was a pull in filter if memory serves... (My apologies to both Tom and Tir) When I
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 21, 2008
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                        Yes, the docs would support that, as does my memory of the discussion. TYPE was a pull in filter if memory serves... (My apologies to both Tom and Tir) When I replied I had thought it was Tom, so I automatically thought the TYPE was correct and had somehow been changed.

                        ABILITYCAT and CAT being the same name makes a "superset" or 'Parent set'.

                        Tom Parker <thpr@...> wrote:
                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland wrote:
                        > Tir Gwaith wrote:
                        > > If you do an ABILITYCATEGORY with CATEGORY and no TYPE, it is
                        > > considered Parent. CATEGORY:FEAT has the Parent "FEAT" for backward
                        > > compatibility. Setting it without that will cause issues.

                        I'm not entirely sure of that. It's weird to have something without a
                        TYPE (subset == superset), but not invalid.

                        I believe setting the name to equal the CATEGORY is what defines a
                        "parent" or "universalset" (depending on your terminology)

                        TP.



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