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BoD log 6/30/08

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  • Eddy Anthony
    [Chair]Eddy: OK, any objection to skipping the reports and jumping into the agenda items tonight? [Arch_SB]thpr: no [Admin]Andrew: no [PR_SB]Maredudd: Nope!
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 30, 2008
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      [Chair]Eddy: OK, any objection to skipping the reports and jumping into the
      agenda items tonight?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: no
      [Admin]Andrew: no
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Nope!
      [Code_SB]james: Well, agenda item 1 will cover them mostly anyway
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, item 1 is 5.14.1 progress
      [Chair]Eddy: The question I had is what is the likely time line and will it
      be soon enough that we can have 5.14.1 on the CD at gencon
      [Chair]Eddy: ?
      [Admin]Andrew: James wanted a Release of rc1 this week
      [Code_SB]james: Well, I think it is a possibility to get it done by then
      [Admin]Andrew: I don't think that is unreasonable.
      [Chair]Eddy: agreed
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Done by then means what actual date?
      [Admin]Andrew: Is four weeks doable?
      [Code_SB]james: Yes, I think we are getting close to the end and wanted to
      push out a release to get some feedback and keep the momentum going
      [Code_SB]james: Four weeks, definitely
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Four weeks will likely make us miss the date for the CDs.
      [Code_SB]james: Anything we can't do in two at this stage is not worth doing
      IMO
      [Chair]Eddy: Three weeks is better in terms of getting the CD produced
      [Admin]Andrew: Okay, let's put the deadline for 5.14.1 in three then.
      [Code_SB]james: Nah, lets aim for two then to give us some room to move
      [Chair]Eddy: sounds good
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I agree with James . . .
      [Admin]Andrew: rc1 this week, rc 2 next and final three
      [Admin]Andrew: Okay
      [Chair]Eddy: what's the commit cutoff for the first RC?
      [Code_SB]james: I'd hope we can go from rc2 to prod really
      [Code_SB]james: Can be decided here
      [Code_SB]james: I can do tonight, tomorrow night or the weekend
      [Admin]Andrew: I say tomorrow night, so any last minute things people are
      working on can get in
      [Code_SB]james: ok
      [Chair]Eddy: sounds good to me
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Sound good to me ANdrew!
      [Code_SB]james: Note that by tonight I mean in around 6-7 hours
      [Code_SB]james: but tomorrow night is equally doable
      [Chair]Eddy: I can take a last look tonight
      [Admin]Andrew: Well, I think Tom was doing an occassional fix, and you were
      handling a good deal... so I'd say if Tom isn't working on anything, and
      you're happy, then tonight is reasonable
      [Admin]Andrew: >>>Directed at James <<<
      [Chair]Eddy: tomorrow night your time James, would be great
      [Chair]Eddy: but I'll leave it to you
      [Arch_SB]thpr: only question is the BONUS thing
      [Admin]Andrew: What about the Bonus thing?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the bug
      [Arch_SB]thpr: %LIST
      [Arch_SB]thpr: reported by Barak
      [Arch_SB]thpr: if everyone is okay with me forcing the issue to what I said
      on _experimental, I can finish that tomorrow night
      [Admin]Andrew: ick... that seriously needs to be hashed out... that is on
      our TODO list for 5.16
      [Code_SB]james: I'm happy wiith that
      [Admin]Andrew: Yeah, go for it Tom...
      [Admin]Andrew: Question > Does Choice do the same thing
      [Admin]Andrew: ?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: CHOICE?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: that's not what you mean
      [Arch_SB]thpr: explain more
      [Admin]Andrew: Yes, %LIST and %CHOICE both pull in the items
      [Arch_SB]thpr: no
      [Arch_SB]thpr: BONUS doesn't support CHOICE
      [Arch_SB]thpr: that's an SAB thing
      [Admin]Andrew: In fact we have four LIST, CHOICE, %LIST, %CHOICE
      [Arch_SB]thpr: no
      [Arch_SB]thpr: not in BONUS
      [Arch_SB]thpr: BONUS is LIST and %LIST
      [Admin]Andrew: Okay... sounds good.
      [Admin]Andrew: Eddy, does that take care of the agenda item 1?
      [Chair]Eddy: Yeah
      [Code_SB]james: One diversion sorry
      [Chair]Eddy: no problem
      [Admin]Andrew: NP James
      [Chair]Eddy: it was on topic anyway
      [Chair]Eddy: item 2
      [Chair]Eddy: Barak's scripts
      [Code_SB]james: Sorry no a new diversion :)
      [Code_SB]james: relevant to item 1 if we could please
      [Chair]Eddy: Oh, you have a diversion
      [Chair]Eddy: go ahead
      [Code_SB]james: We have 7 bugs and 2 freqs left for 5.14.1
      [Code_SB]james: There are a few allocated which is fine - I know where thya
      re at. Of the remainder, I think they are the sort of thiings that we can do
      wihtout if we need to. Please let me know if there are any there that are
      important
      [Code_SB]james: Happy for that to be after the meeting of course
      [Chair]Eddy: So we should review those to see if they are needed? Otherwise
      they get dropped to 5.16?
      [Code_SB]james: Well, if we can get them done no, but I won't hold up the
      release for them
      [Admin]Andrew: How many are related to Barak Bugs?
      [Code_SB]james: None to my knowledge
      [Admin]Andrew: Okay, well. Then sounds good.. We squash what we can in the
      time allotted...
      [Chair]Eddy: Doesn't look like anything really bad in that list, I'm cool
      with that. I'll look closer after the meeting
      [Code_SB]james: My understanding is that the BONUS bug Tom is looking at is
      the last one of Baraks
      [Admin]Andrew: yeah, looks like it
      [Code_SB]james: Thanks for that - that's my diversion done
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, item 2.) Barak's 5.12 --> 5.14 script, ready to go?
      [Admin]Andrew: I ran into a problem, but don't know if it got fixed
      [Chair]Eddy: I'm using it, got all my sets converted in a couple of days so
      I think it's good
      [Code_SB]james: Barak's happy for it to run on the CMP stuff and it works
      nicely on the local files I have tested
      [Admin]Andrew: I had a CHOOSE get converted to a CHOOSE:STRING
      [Code_SB]james: I'm looking at making a version available on the website for
      easy use by those with only a few files
      [Admin]Andrew: But otherwise it looks good
      [Chair]Eddy: what was it before?
      [Admin]Andrew: standby... it was a custom set
      [Admin]Andrew: CHOOSE:FEATADD
      [Chair]Eddy: At any rate Barak has been quite responsive with feedback and
      he's been posting revisions to the file section of the LSTFileHelp group
      which seems a good place to host that from
      [Admin]Andrew: Became CHOOSE:STRING|FEATADD
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Take that offline
      [Chair]Eddy: don't think there's anything thing left to discuss
      [Chair]Eddy: let's move on to 3
      [Chair]Eddy: 3.) 5.16.0 - Are Tom and James happy with the scope on the
      Code freq side?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'm concerned with all the library changes
      [Arch_SB]thpr: not sure why we need any/all of those
      [Arch_SB]thpr: there's risk in taking in a new library
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and [ 1910772 ] ABILITYSET/ABILITYGROUP separation needs to
      be put back in 6.0
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and [ 1873013 ] CHOOSE:USERINPUT Inconsistent Syntax will
      ride with the CHOOSE rebuild
      [Arch_SB]thpr: which is probably 6.0
      [Code_SB]james: That'll probably pick up the choose in race also - that will
      be dependant on having choose refactored to be usable by any object type
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I hadn't seen that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: is that recent?
      [Code_SB]james: [2005870 ] Add Chooser Support to Race
      [Arch_SB]thpr: oh, yea
      [Code_SB]james: Yes only in the last couple of days
      [Arch_SB]thpr: that's iffy for 5.16
      [Code_SB]james: I think what we need for now is a docs change to stomp on
      the idea that choose is global :)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: heh
      [Arch_SB]thpr: yea, since it doesn't work in CLASS either?
      [Code_SB]james: nor templates
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so basically it works in Abilities
      [Arch_SB]thpr: (and Feats)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and EqMods (with the alternate syntax)
      [Code_SB]james: That's it, with sepcific syntaxes working in other things
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ah,, that's right
      [Arch_SB]thpr: there's a special case in Domain as well
      [Code_SB]james: yep, such as eqmods and template choices in races and
      templates
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ok, we'll take a Doc Tracker
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I think the rest of the items are reasonable, though some may
      slip
      [Code_SB]james: Agreed
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Doc Tracker for 5.16?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: y
      [Code_SB]james: Is the advanced spell chooser needed fro 4e or pathfinder?
      [Chair]Eddy: side question: do we need CHOOSE to work elsewhere? seems like
      if I need a choice I can make an ability to hold it
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Cool. We'll take care of it . . .
      [Code_SB]james: @Eric, maybe 5.14.1 if it can be done in time
      [Code_SB]james: That's true Eddy.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Depends on the task. I'll try . . .
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Eddy, once the CHOOSE structure is cleaned up
      [Arch_SB]thpr: it's no burden to support it elsewhere
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so the question becomes: Why not?
      [Chair]Eddy: The advanced spell chooser is needed for the RSRD so I'd guess
      it can find uses in the new games
      [Chair]Eddy: Cool Tom, I'l, take that then :-)
      [Admin]Andrew: Yeah, it would be nice for the spell chooser to work fully
      [Code_SB]james: ok
      [Arch_SB]thpr: someone needs to paste the request into that FREQ
      [Admin]Andrew: I'll locate the full proposal...
      [Arch_SB]thpr: thanks
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, anything more for item 3?
      [Code_SB]james: not from me
      [Chair]Eddy: on to 4 then
      [Chair]Eddy: 4.) 5.16.0 - Tom/Andrew how is the initial overhaul going? I
      noticed
      that Tom put a temporary halt to the proceedings in order to give
      Stefan (Pathfinder) a stable base to work from.
      [Arch_SB]thpr: A few thoughts from me
      [Chair]Eddy: shoot
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Part of the token overhaul is gated by [ 1967041 ] Auto
      convert Default Monster Mode characters
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so that can't be a last minute enhancement
      [Arch_SB]thpr: or we need to drop features in the interim and enable that at
      the end
      [Arch_SB]thpr: either way works, but it holds up a bunch of the Race and
      Class token improvements due to deep interactions involving default monsters
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Thought two: There are 4 open data bugs in Trunk, those
      should really be addressed before additional changes are made on Ability
      objects & the like
      [Code_SB]james: Stefan sounded like he was pretty busy when I chatted with
      him the other night - I'll see if he minds if someone else clears that one
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ok
      [Arch_SB]thpr: it's beyone what I understand
      [Arch_SB]thpr: *beyond
      [Code_SB]james: np
      [Code_SB]james: In theory it should be fairly straight forward, but this is
      PCGen we are talking about!
      [Arch_SB]thpr: :)
      [Admin]Andrew: I see only three data bugs...
      [Arch_SB]thpr: 1997218
      [Arch_SB]thpr: 1994523
      [Arch_SB]thpr: 1994522
      [Arch_SB]thpr: 1994520
      [Admin]Andrew: 1994314
      [Admin]Andrew: 1994097
      [Admin]Andrew: 1375795
      [Admin]Andrew: That's for 5.14.1
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I was referring to items introduced by the refactoring
      [Admin]Andrew: Code bugs then?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: no
      [Arch_SB]thpr: refactoring Feats to Abilities
      [Admin]Andrew: Okay, I'm not seeing them then...
      [Code_SB]james: 4 P7 bugs against 5.16.0
      [Arch_SB]thpr: The code doesn't necessarily reoprt them
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the code can't catch every error made at this point
      [Arch_SB]thpr: it's especially non-sensitive to abilities
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the only checked token is Race VFEAT, I think
      [Chair]Eddy: Should be able to locate those with prettylst though
      [Admin]Andrew: gotcha... I see them now... 5.16
      [Arch_SB]thpr: all others are unchecked by CDOM code
      [Arch_SB]thpr: my third issue was the BONUS thing we discussed earlier, so
      that's resolved, I can go back to munging with the BONUS code in 5.16
      [Arch_SB]thpr: those were my things on 5.16
      [Chair]Eddy: Tom, Andrew and I should be able to know those data bugs out
      fast
      [Code_SB]james: How's your progress on the conversion Tom? Have you
      restarted yet?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: after this coming weekend
      [Admin]Andrew: Eddy - The core is pretty set except for a few missed items
      that Tom has raised. I've diverted attention to getting the remaining two
      Paizo Adventure sets completed for Eric, before I return to converting the
      d20ogl and permissioned
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'll look again at changing tokens
      [Chair]Eddy: Andrew, if you want to stay focused on Paizo I can fix these
      bugs
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and I'm at about 50% right now, as before
      [Chair]Eddy: I woked on the core data until all the console reports were
      resolved, looks like we need to go a bit deeper
      [Admin]Andrew: Sure thing... I think I'll have set 5 done after I get the
      kits done and do a once over... then I'll hammer 6 out.
      [Arch_SB]thpr: much of what's left can be grouped into a few categories: (1)
      Kit tokens, (2) Ability related tokens, (3) CHOOSE/AUTO/ADD [subtokens]
      [Admin]Andrew: Yeah
      [Chair]Eddy: I've done 7 and started on 8
      [Arch_SB]thpr: oh, I guess I should also mention the arch doc that went
      across -devel. It explains the Load/Token system in some detail
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and there's an overview doc as well
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'd expect to do 2 more docs by 5.16 release:
      [Arch_SB]thpr: 1) The Rules Data Store (how the LST files are stored before
      being used by a PC
      [Arch_SB]thpr: 2) Details on the LoadContext
      [Code_SB]james: I've only skimmed those currently Tom - plan to try and get
      a decent read of them later in the week. Looks like you made substantial
      changes from the the draft
      [Arch_SB]thpr: yes, appreciated your feedback :)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: looks like that's it for item 4?
      [Chair]Eddy: Cool, item 5
      [Chair]Eddy: 5.) Gencon, status report
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Things are moving along.
      [Chair]Eddy: CD cover is done ( unless I need to revise the version number,
      no problem)
      [Chair]Eddy: Flyer is done
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Eddy has produced most of the required art so far.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: The hottest item is the t-shirts:
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Tally of the latest pollon the BoD List:
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Gen Con T-Shirt
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Front:Big Vitruvian Man with 'ook!'
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Back:Logo/Splash screen (with URL underneath)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Quantity: Will provide costs for 72 and 144 tomorrow on BoD
      list.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Votes five in favor of this configuration.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: ANy comments?
      [Admin]Andrew: Sounds good to me
      [Code_SB]james: Sounds like a good one to me also, so add another vote :)
      [Code_SB]james: Just have to work out how to get one!
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Six. Its unanimous.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: OEddy is going to put tpgether the CD image.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: He has the art.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Once 5,14,1 comes out, we're in.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Oh, on the T-Shirts, as I noted above, I'll post the costs
      for 72 vs 144 tomorrow on the list so look in and let me know how many you
      want. Its going tobe about $7 per shrt for 72 and a bit less than that for
      144.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Devlivery time for the shirts is about two weeks after the
      order.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Flyers will be handled by Paul G. Banners by Eddy, T-shirts
      by me, and CDs by Eddy probably, since he is doing everything else on them.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Nothing else from me for now.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Unless there are questins.
      [Chair]Eddy: not here
      [Admin]Andrew: sounds good... when do I get my shirt? :P
      [Chair]Eddy: OH, I got my button kit today :-)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Cool.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Andrew: We'll work that one out . . .
      €: [Code_SB]james puts his hand up
      [Code_SB]james: me too :)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: IS there any interest in talking orders for shirts at Gen
      Con if.when we run out?
      [Code_SB]james: Presuming we are charging for them, shouldn't be an issue -
      but perhaps a Cafe Press or similar site might be a better way to do that?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Orders from the public, and team members that is?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'm with James, I think - it keeps the payment issues simple
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: We had talked briefly about Cafe PRess and it seems that
      Bryan had a problem with that . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: Yeah, I was thinking Cafe Press might be the way to go
      [Arch_SB]thpr: well, we have time to figure that out
      [Chair]Eddy: he was concerned with copyright protection
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Right. We have time.
      [Arch_SB]thpr: let's take it to the BoD list and see about Bryan's concerns
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Will do.
      [Code_SB]james: Sounds good
      [Chair]Eddy: anything else for gencon?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Nothing except I'm looking forward to it . ..
      [Chair]Eddy: me too
      [Chair]Eddy: item 6
      [Chair]Eddy: 6.) Admin/re-org - I'm still chasing up a majority of the team
      (most
      have not replied), already numbers of active are dropping (being
      accurately recorded more to the point). I think by the end we'll be
      down to a small core team which we can then recruit anew for.
      [Code_SB]james: Have we sorted out material for Anestis to take to Gencon
      Oz?
      [Code_SB]james: (sorry again with the late comment)
      [Chair]Eddy: got the flyer done
      [Chair]Eddy: he should be able to run prints of that I hope
      [Code_SB]james: Cool thanks for that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: For the record, (6) in it's entirety: Admin/re-org - I'm
      still chasing up a majority of the team (most have not replied), already
      numbers of active are dropping (being accurately recorded more to the
      point). I think by the end we'll be down to a small core team which we can
      then recruit anew for.
      [Arch_SB]thpr: which I'm not sure requires any action on our part here?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I agree.
      [Code_SB]james: Agreed
      [Admin]Andrew: Yeah, the teams are always a small group of active people,
      the larger lists are a hold over due to not being maintained...
      [Admin]Andrew: So, I don't see this as anything we need to act on as a BoD.
      [Chair]Eddy: sorry Tom, I can see the text but I guess it gets cut off at
      the line break for you?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: y
      [Code_SB]james: Likewise
      [Arch_SB]thpr: just wanted to make sure the whole thing made it into the
      log, since it's effectively Kar's report
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and not a discussion point
      [Chair]Eddy: agreed
      [Chair]Eddy: we can move to 7
      [Chair]Eddy: Tom, you want this one?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: which I brought up the point on the BoD list
      [Arch_SB]thpr: that I think the next step is getting a Wiki running
      [Arch_SB]thpr: since the SF wiki has some quirks to it
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I think that's what we take as the next step
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I agree.
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ...and I'll save further thoughts for later, once we've
      demonstrated that
      [Admin]Andrew: We have a site, and I think an experiemental WIKI was put up
      by a user
      [Code_SB]james: Yes the SF wiki seems to be a problem for a lot of peole and
      that's not really what a wiki is supposed ot be about
      [Chair]Eddy: I second that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so hopefully Anestis & Kar can muster up the web team and get
      a wiki up and running...
      [Arch_SB]thpr: not sure how much discussion is required on which one to use
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Other than the Board approving the approach.
      [Admin]Andrew: Find a WIKI you like...
      [Arch_SB]thpr: not really my forte, and not something I'm going to weigh
      heavily on, since I'm not going to be the one maintaining it
      [Chair]Eddy: I liked the one we had before SF, not that I know much about
      them
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Meaning I'll use it, but I'm not the admin maintaining the
      site
      [Code_SB]james: Eddy, that one was prone to losing changes - not good IMO
      [Chair]Eddy: can't disagree with that, just liked it's look and feel
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Mediawiki is supposed to be a good one . . .
      [Code_SB]james: I have a vague recollection that one of the web team had
      alrwady installed Mediawiki on the new web site
      [Admin]Andrew: Yes, I know we installed A wiki there...
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I don't recall if they ever got it working . . .
      [Arch_SB]thpr: that means we just need to find it ;)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ah, yes, Mediawiki is there
      [Chair]Eddy: link?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki
      [Arch_SB]thpr: needs logos & other configuration
      [Arch_SB]thpr: rather than the default install
      [Admin]Andrew: Yeah... but it's there... :)
      [Admin]Andrew: Eddy, you're the logo master...
      [Chair]Eddy: time to make some magic
      [Chair]Eddy: :-)
      [Chair]Eddy: So that project is further along than we thought
      [Chair]Eddy: Anything else on this?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: not from me
      [Chair]Eddy: Do we have any other topics?
      [Code_SB]james: None from me
      [Arch_SB]thpr: not from me
      [Admin]Andrew: not from me
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Not from me . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: Let's call it a night then
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Its a night!
      [Chair]Eddy: *bangs gavel* thanks for being here everyone
    • Barak
      ... I think I squashed that one here recently. I ll have to check. ... Hallelujah! I can pull that one up! :p Oops, gotta run for work! Barak
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 1, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        > -----Original Message-----
        > [Code_SB]james: Barak's happy for it to run on the CMP stuff and it
        > works
        > nicely on the local files I have tested
        > [Admin]Andrew: I had a CHOOSE get converted to a CHOOSE:STRING
        > [Code_SB]james: I'm looking at making a version available on the
        > website for
        > easy use by those with only a few files
        > [Admin]Andrew: But otherwise it looks good
        > [Chair]Eddy: what was it before?
        > [Admin]Andrew: standby... it was a custom set
        > [Admin]Andrew: CHOOSE:FEATADD
        > [Chair]Eddy: At any rate Barak has been quite responsive with feedback
        > and
        > he's been posting revisions to the file section of the LSTFileHelp
        > group
        > which seems a good place to host that from
        > [Admin]Andrew: Became CHOOSE:STRING|FEATADD

        I think I squashed that one here recently. I'll have to check.

        > [Arch_SB]thpr: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki

        Hallelujah! I can pull that one up! :p

        Oops, gotta run for work!

        Barak
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