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BoD log, 6/16/08

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  • Eddy Anthony
    [Chair]Eddy: Greetings everyone, I ve got 10 pm shall we begin? [Chair]Eddy: Agenda item 1.) Self congratulations for getting 5.14 released! Free bananas for
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 16, 2008
      [Chair]Eddy: Greetings everyone, I've got 10 pm shall we begin?
      [Chair]Eddy: Agenda item 1.) Self congratulations for getting 5.14
      released! Free bananas for everyone!
      [Chair]Eddy: I'll start, Content Report, I'll focus on 5.14.1 for now
      [Chair]Eddy: Doc Bugs: 5 for 5.14.1 (5 total)
      [Chair]Eddy: Doc FREQs: 10 for 5.14.1 (57 total)
      [Chair]Eddy: Output Sheets
      [Chair]Eddy: OS Bugs: 1 for 5.14.1 (4 total)
      [Chair]Eddy: OS FREQs: 2 for 5.14.1 (42 total)
      [Chair]Eddy: Data
      [Chair]Eddy: Data Bugs: 3 for 5.14.1 (31 Total)
      [Chair]Eddy: Data FREQs: 1 for 5.14.1 (52 Total)
      [Chair]Eddy: With the error reporting we're getting in the 5.15 branch and
      the improvements to prettylst we're activly uncovering and fixing quite a
      few issues
      [Chair]Eddy: The number of Content trrackers is low compared to Code so I'm
      sure Content will be ready once Code gets caught up with their bugs
      [Chair]Eddy: So if we want to keep the time to the 5.14.1 short Content
      should be go to go.
      [Chair]Eddy: Questions?
      [Chair]Eddy: Looks like everyones here but Kar and Andrew
      cpmeister: has that character sheet preview bug been fixed?
      [Chair]Eddy: Andrew will need a new second for Admin, PapaDBR has stepped
      down from that role
      [Chair]Eddy: What bug Connor?
      [Chair]Eddy: is it code or in the html?
      cpmeister: I'm refering to the Preview tab
      [Chair]Eddy: Code then, don't know.
      cpmeister: there is some Concurrent bug in the mix
      [Chair]Eddy: that'll be on James's plate then
      cpmeister: very well
      [Chair]Eddy: Eric, shall we go to you next while the rain still hasn't
      knocked you out?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Sure . . . though the rain has stopped . . . :-)
      [Chair]Eddy: that good :-)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: OGL has been quite as we wait for the GSL to come out.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: On the Advetising side, the Press Releases went out to all
      the regular site for 5.14.0 release. I'm planning on hitting a few other
      site as I ine then up and I'd like to follow up on one or to of the regular
      sites with a more indepth treatmen on 5,14.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: PL has been quite as well though I am getting ready to send
      out notes to the publishers letting them know that we will be at Gen Con and
      that they can expect to see us come by to visit . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Unless there are questions, thats it for PR . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: no questions from me
      [Chair]Eddy: Thanks Eric
      [Code_SB]james: I like the idea of more indepth discussions Eric
      [Code_SB]james: Will that be sort of a feature interview style of thing?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I could use some help in writups . . . hinthinthint . . .
      [Code_SB]james: :)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Yep . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: As well as more indepth reviews . . .
      [OGL]Nylanfs: It would be nice to have some seminar's at GenCon next year :)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Well, as my wife is excited about going this year, and is
      already starting to talk about going next year, we might ty to do something
      like that . . . :-)
      [OGL]Nylanfs: :)
      [Code_SB]james: I'm happy to pitch in with the writups
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Great! I'll be in touch . . . :-)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I got your IM . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: might try and get some help from the community on that too
      [Chair]Eddy: maybe we got some writers out there
      [Code_SB]james: Sounds good
      [Chair]Eddy: Tom, since we have you, care to report on the ARCH side of
      things?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: sure
      [Arch_SB]thpr: The token movement from the CDOM branch to Trunk is going
      reasonably well
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'm about 50%, just short of that, I think
      [Arch_SB]thpr: The biggest challenge was realizing that Global tokens can be
      used in PCC and Game Mode files (even though those are mostly BONUSes, the
      code support Global tokens), so that's been an unexpected thing to resolve
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I have a solution in Trunk now, but it will slow conversion
      of the Global tokens as I have to test some pretty complex scenarios
      [OGL]Nylanfs: What PCGen complex??
      [OGL]Nylanfs: :)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I converted Template's HD, LEVEL, REPEATLEVEL, which now
      allows me to do the level-based Global tokens
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the next major hitch will be some of the Race tokens and
      other tokens that are held up by default monster mode
      [Arch_SB]thpr: we want to get that out ASAP
      [Arch_SB]thpr: but I think we're waiting on a conversion on import that
      Stefan is working
      TirGwaith: Tom: not all globals work in GameMode files, at least, they
      didn't. We had some hit or miss testing a while back. If globals will all
      work after this, I'm going to do a happy jig.
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Tir: I'll get them to work if I get pictures
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ;)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Anyway, 5.15 is a lot more verbose about messaging than 5.14,
      so anyone with data that's clean in 5.14 is encouraged to try 5.15 on their
      data
      [Arch_SB]thpr: it will catch some issues 5.14 simply can't
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Last comment is one in James' territory, which is that the
      gui* tests are still in need of attention
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I did BarJack, bu thte others remain to be vlaidated
      [Arch_SB]thpr: as correct after the Ability changes Andrew has done
      [Code_SB]james: Yep, that's on my todo list
      [Chair]Eddy: I can look at the characters themselves if you need me too
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'm not sure the characters broke
      [Arch_SB]thpr: since it's mainly converting from FEAT:Foo to
      ABILITY:SpecialAbility|Foo
      [Arch_SB]thpr: it just alters our expected output
      [Arch_SB]thpr: James: Thanks
      [Chair]Eddy: They may need manual fixing if the new abilities need to be
      selected
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I don't think they do
      [Arch_SB]thpr: at least BarJack didn't
      [Chair]Eddy: I'll give them a look see
      [Code_SB]james: I'd hope we can avoid the manual fixing if possible
      [Code_SB]james: as it is a pain for users
      [Chair]Eddy: unavoidable in some cases
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Now that I'm through some of the challenging parts of the
      Token conversion, I am focusing a bit on javadocs; I've done a group of that
      over the last day or so
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Much more to do, but since stuff won't be changing as fast,
      it's good to get others up on what the code does
      [Arch_SB]thpr: There are some significant code changes, I think PCTemplate
      went from >3000 lines down to about 500, so stuff is really moving around
      [Code_SB]james: Nice
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so the explanation is going to be important
      TirGwaith: understatement.
      [Arch_SB]thpr: LOL
      TirGwaith: I can't wait to test the speed.
      [Arch_SB]thpr: it'll still be slow for now
      [Arch_SB]thpr: since we still have two load systems interacting
      TirGwaith: ah.
      [Chair]Eddy: yeah, feels a tad slower
      [Arch_SB]thpr: though I have progressed through some type safe items, so
      some improvement is there, though I suspect it's small
      [Arch_SB]thpr: The load is definitely going to be slower in 5.15
      [Arch_SB]thpr: it's simply doing more analysis
      [Arch_SB]thpr: The hope is that we trade load speed for runtime speed
      [Arch_SB]thpr: since load is a one time event
      [Arch_SB]thpr: The real change will be once all items of a certain type are
      in the "new system" and I can drive type safety throughout
      [Arch_SB]thpr: that's it from me unless there are questions
      [Chair]Eddy: no questions here
      [Chair]Eddy: James, you ready?
      [Code_SB]james: Yep
      [Code_SB]james: Code is mostly focused on 5.14.1 currently, leaving the
      trunk in architecture's hands :)
      [Code_SB]james: Bugs: Count started at 29 bugs as at the end of last week, 7
      fixed, 1 proved already resolved and 1 new, so 22 left.
      [Code_SB]james: FReqs: 4 scheduled for 5.14.1
      [Code_SB]james: Which brings up an issue - now that we are at the coal face
      of the dot release and there is large scale change happening on the trunk I
      am inclined to put off a couple of high impact changes until 5.16. These are
      mostly around ADD:FEAT and ADD:ABILITY - one for its work choosers and the
      other that EQMODs can't use them
      [Code_SB]james: The reaosning being that we have lived with these for a
      while and the fix will be very different between the trunk and the 5.14
      code, thus we effectviely do it twice, and cop the risk twice
      [Code_SB]james: I don'ty think that is a good use of effort unless there is
      a pressing need for these chages
      [Arch_SB]thpr: So to be honest, I'm puzzled about how to do 1910541 easily
      in 5.14
      TirGwaith: looking it up really quickly
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ADD:FEAT doesn't know about SELECT
      [Arch_SB]thpr: it's a NASTY problem to fix given how ADD:FEAT displays a
      chooser
      [Code_SB]james: Yes, the issue of having two sets of code doing the same
      thing
      [Code_SB]james:
      https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1910541&group_id=2
      5576&atid=384719 for those watching at home
      [Arch_SB]thpr: was that the ADD:FEAT one you were referring to?
      TirGwaith: ugh. and I don't understand SELECT totally. I'm useless
      [Arch_SB]thpr: SELECT is what COUNT= used to be, only it works across all
      CHOOSE: items, and is a stand-alone token, and it actually works
      [Code_SB]james: yes, that was one of them
      TirGwaith: So, ADD:FEAT should be passing through the SELECT, but it uses a
      totally different UI popup...
      [Arch_SB]thpr: yea, something like that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the problem is that ADD:FEAT expands the choices
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so it will present Foo(Bar), Foo(Bar2), Foo(Bar3) as the
      choices
      TirGwaith: right, which solved a problem with Feats with choosers and
      limited stuff. CMP issue a while back
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the problem is that if you also had another feat, Blah(Bar),
      Blah(Bar2)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and they have different SELECT, then ADD:FEAT Just can't
      resolve that situation
      [Arch_SB]thpr: it doesn't "get" different weights for different choices
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and it's a pretty hard nut to crack
      TirGwaith: yeah
      [Arch_SB]thpr: We may be able to get it to work provided all feats have the
      same SELECT value
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'll have to think about that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: sorry we highjacked your report, James
      [Code_SB]james: np, that was something I wanted discussed
      [Code_SB]james: So, are there any objections if these get reschduled to
      5.16, or we shcedule a limited version as proposed by Tom?
      [Chair]Eddy: One thing to keep in mind, it should be possible to work around
      the problem by using an ability pool instead of an ADD:FEAT right?
      [Code_SB]james: Yes and I think this is the way that the data team is moving
      currently right?
      [Chair]Eddy: Yes, the open source team is any way
      TirGwaith: Yep.
      [Code_SB]james: We of course need to maintain the fucntionality as it is
      used by CMP and others, but they have been working with the current
      restrictons for a while now
      TirGwaith: Is this a theoretical issue, or something that is being used that
      no longer works?
      [Chair]Eddy: So this is a problem is a previous production release and we
      have a newer way to work without the problem, I'd say it would be OK to
      slide this one to 5.16 is it's so difficult
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Tir: both
      [Arch_SB]thpr: or something like that
      TirGwaith: LOL.
      TirGwaith: I move put off to 5.16
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the problem is that items which allowed multiple selections
      didn't work properly in 5.12
      TirGwaith: Not that I have any vote.
      TirGwaith: true
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so to fix that we did the SELECT= thing
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the problem is that in creating SELECT= we introduced the
      problem with ADD:FEAT
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so we traded a lot of broken stuff for a narrow set of broken
      things
      [Arch_SB]thpr: (which is items with a SELECT: don't work properly with
      ADD:FEAT)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so some things that used to work may have broken, but we've
      fixed more than we broke
      TirGwaith: true. And if ADD:FEAT didn't expand to fix another CMP issue
      (don't remember offhand), we may not have this one. vicious cycle. At
      least the number of interactions is going down.
      [Code_SB]james: Last call for objections then....
      [Chair]Eddy: none here
      TirGwaith: at some point we'll be at the singularity, and everything will
      work. :P
      [Chair]Eddy: just watch those tides ;-)
      [Code_SB]james: ok, I'll move those on then
      [Code_SB]james: Continuing with the report....
      [Code_SB]james: On the plugin side we have 1 bug scheduled for 5.14.1 and no
      freqs.
      [Code_SB]james: That's about it
      [Code_SB]james: Any questions?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: None from me . . .
      [Arch_SB]thpr: not from me
      [Code_SB]james: BTW: Connor I'm happy to chat about the preview thing via IM
      if you like
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, let's move on to Kar's agenda
      [Code_SB]james: ok
      [Chair]Eddy: 2.) 5.14.1 - _Needs focus_, number of open issues rising
      rapidly.
      Would like all of the SBs to nudge their teams into fixing these items
      first.
      [Chair]Eddy: I think we've addressed this in the reports, anyone want to add
      anything?
      [Code_SB]james: I think we have that in hand now, although more help is
      always welcomed
      [Chair]Eddy: indeed, Andrew and Phil have been doing a nice job cleaning up
      the data for 5.14.1
      [Chair]Eddy: 3.) 5.16.0 - Mainly need a status report from Tom and Andrew
      to see
      how their major changes are going, aim is to get a 'stable' Alpha out
      there ASAP for people to play with.
      [Chair]Eddy: Tom's already addressed this in his side
      [Chair]Eddy: Andrew's dug into the hidden feat > ability quite deep
      TirGwaith: 5.14 data cleanup commits do loot good. :)
      [Chair]Eddy: Tir, now that you are back it might be good to schedule a data
      team meeting
      TirGwaith: yeah. Need to set goals and such on 5.16. That's part of why I
      haven't responded to list emails - I'm trying to figure out where the other
      teams are on that stuff
      [Chair]Eddy: right, well be thinking of what you want to work on and lets
      find a good time for it
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Yea
      [Chair]Eddy: I think the big thing in data will be creating all those new
      abilities to replace the SAB's and hidden feats
      [Arch_SB]thpr: a list of FREQs the data team wants in 5.16 would be good
      [Arch_SB]thpr: That will help me drive type safety where it needs to be to
      make the changes easier to do
      [Chair]Eddy: It would also be good if we can finalize more sets, we've got a
      ton of them in Alpha and not all of them are waiting on code support
      TirGwaith: our major time intensive stuff is moving all the SABs to ability
      objects.
      [Chair]Eddy: I'll keep that in mind Tom
      [Arch_SB]thpr: thx
      [Chair]Eddy: moving the FREQ process along is currently at the top of my
      list
      [Chair]Eddy: well, under gencon art anyway
      TirGwaith: The other stuff for 5.16 I have access to is Pathfinder. I'm not
      getting the 4e books
      TirGwaith: So I won't know what specific FReqs we'll need for 5.16
      [Chair]Eddy: I got mine, I'm interested in coding for 4e, played my first
      session last night
      TirGwaith: I'll have the SVN server totally set up tomorrow, I think. I
      understand the basics, just don't know every nook and cranny of every
      ability.
      TirGwaith: I know referencing a primary weapon damage from within an ability
      object will go a long way.
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Does that mean Damage needs to be parseable? I think it's
      only a String now
      [Arch_SB]thpr: don't answer that, tangent alert - we can take that to
      _experimental
      TirGwaith: yes.
      TirGwaith: good point
      [Chair]Eddy: with that:3.b) Roadmap for Code Freqs - James and Tom to
      report any progress,
      there are now 400+ freqs to comb through, so I don't expect this to be
      an easy task :(
      €: [Arch_SB]thpr points at James
      [Code_SB]james: From the code side, the stated objective is to provide code
      support for 4e and pathfinder. Added to that we have Connor's UI push and
      Tom's implementation of the CDOM tokens. Along with the code changes needed
      by the data team that should be enough to keep us out of trouble.
      [Code_SB]james: Also there will be personal things that the code monkeys
      want to do (including myself) - that's fine so long as they are contained in
      scope and don't become a blocker for the release
      [Chair]Eddy: So the big job is to get the FREQ process flowing and get them
      finalized
      [Code_SB]james: Yep
      [Code_SB]james: That way we can assemble what things you need and get them
      started
      TirGwaith: I need to jump in there then. Partly my bad judement to not
      respond till I understood everything fully.
      [Chair]Eddy: no problem
      [Chair]Eddy: look for threads which have died without resolution
      [Chair]Eddy: Your ER proposal is one, it's pretty much done as I recall
      TirGwaith: Well, lots of stuff for me to do tomorrow after work. :)
      [Chair]Eddy: same here
      [Chair]Eddy: you will see a few threads get wrapped up this week though
      [Code_SB]james: Another tangent alert - has anyone looked at Mongoose
      Traveller now that it is out? They will be releasing an OGL version any day
      now and opening it for third party pubs
      TirGwaith: nope, interesting
      [Chair]Eddy: I've got the book
      [Code_SB]james: I'm planning to very soon
      [Chair]Eddy: very similar to the classic book
      [OGL]Nylanfs: Is it out already?
      [Code_SB]james: Yep
      [Chair]Eddy: is the SRD out?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I've tried to contact them but they have yet to respond.
      I'll be looking them up at Gen Con . . .
      [Code_SB]james: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpg/series.php?qsSeries=51
      [Code_SB]james: Eddy - not yet I don't think
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, back to task
      [Chair]Eddy: 4.) 5.12-->5.14 conversion script - Barak what is the status
      on this?
      Do we have your permission to release it officially to the public?
      [Code_SB]james: :) Sorry - had to ask
      [Chair]Eddy: Well, Barak's not here to answer
      [Code_SB]james: Hmm, I have a related question to this point
      [Chair]Eddy: But he has released it and updates and I've used it myself
      [Chair]Eddy: Go ahead
      [Code_SB]james: There was a script done up to convert default monsters to
      kits.
      [Code_SB]james: Does anyone have that?
      [Chair]Eddy: yes, I do. Aaron wrote that
      [Code_SB]james: It would be the other piece in the puzzle of converting to
      5.14
      [Code_SB]james: Cool, could you send it my way please?
      [Chair]Eddy: sure
      [Code_SB]james: Woudl it be suitable for release on lstfilehelp?
      [Chair]Eddy: true, wish there were a way to make all these scripts easier to
      use
      [Code_SB]james: It would no doubt need support. which I would be happy to do
      [Chair]Eddy: I don't see why not
      [Chair]Eddy: it's simpler than prettylst or Baraks converter
      [Chair]Eddy: 2 inputs, the script and a race file
      [Code_SB]james: Cool. Main issue seems to be perl install and grabbing
      modules
      [Chair]Eddy: and learning how to work with command line if you've never done
      it
      [Code_SB]james: True
      [Code_SB]james: That part at leats we can hide in a baat file, as Andrew did
      for Barak's script
      [Chair]Eddy: Next item then: 5.) Team structures, the way we work etc.
      I'll be polling the team as a whole this weekend, so we can discuss any
      results of that.
      [Chair]Eddy: He has posted as he said he would, we'll see what happens
      [Chair]Eddy: 5.b.) Hopefully Karianna will have reported back initial
      findings
      from contacting the hordes of volunteers. Proposal is to have an
      'inactive' listing in the wiki pages for users that fall off the
      radar, inactive users will still be removed from SF as we don't want
      to accidentally assign them trackers and it gives us a better idea of
      genuine team size/capability.
      [Chair]Eddy: Any objections the the inactive list idea? Sounds very
      practical to me, I vote Yah
      [Code_SB]james: Yes, I think it is a good idea.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: No objections from me
      [OGL]Nylanfs: None from me :)
      [Chair]Eddy: how about you Tom?
      [Chair]Eddy: I'm going to say motion carries (unless Andrew or Tom objects
      later)
      [Chair]Eddy: Do we have time for one last item?
      [Chair]Eddy: 6.) Vote on whether we should change the Bylaws to include a
      clause
      that we always need to vote on SB promotions

      [Arch_SB]thpr: yes, fine by me
      [Chair]Eddy: Thanks Tom :-)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: (that was in reference to item 5
      [Chair]Eddy: I'm in favor of item 6, makes sense to formalize the process
      [Arch_SB]thpr: You should paste in the whole agenda item for those watching
      at home, Eddy
      [Code_SB]james: Did you have the text of the clause handy? I think we need
      that to be able to vote formally
      [Chair]Eddy: That was the whole sentence Kar wrote
      [Chair]Eddy: let me get that clause
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: 6.) Vote on whether we should change the Bylaws to include
      a clause
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: that we always need to vote on SB promotions
      [Chair]Eddy: Oh, did it get cut off?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Yep
      [Chair]Eddy: sorry
      [Chair]Eddy: I don't see any text regarding SB's are promoted, looks like it
      will need to be written before we can vote on it
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: A more formal proposai would be as follows:
      [OGL]Nylanfs: I always thought that they got jumped from behind and bashed
      over the head
      [Code_SB]james: I certainly support the concept - we need to have a process
      for this important step
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Renumber Article IV Section 2 as Article IV SEction 3.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Add new Article IV SEction 2 to read: New Silverbacks
      shall be approved by a simple majority vote of the existing Silverbacks.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Or something like that . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: sounds fine to me
      [Code_SB]james: Agreed
      [Chair]Eddy: I motion we adopt that text
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Second.
      [Chair]Eddy: all in favor?
      [Code_SB]james: Yes
      [OGL]Nylanfs: Yes
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: PR says Yes.
      irc: [OGL]Nylanfs has left pcgen
      [Chair]Eddy: that's a simple majority, motion passes
      [Chair]Eddy: the last items on Kar's list were Gencon and the GSL
      [Chair]Eddy: don't need to talk about the GSL so anything new on the gencon
      front?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Changing the ByLAws requires 2/3 to pass . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Gen Con Report, or stuff . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I confirmed the CD Costs and its just about what I
      budgeted.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: They prefer a CD to replicated, but can tak a disc image
      through email.
      [Chair]Eddy: So we need Tom's and/or Andrew's vote
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: They also confirmed 7 to 10 days for production.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Eddy, would you like to give us a report on the Art work?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Yep. Tom and/or Andrews vote.
      [Chair]Eddy: I've done the CD art, worked on the Flyer and business cards
      and I'm bouncing idea's around for the posters
      [Chair]Eddy: I got three 24 by 36 poster frames and we can put whatever we
      want into them
      [Chair]Eddy: I figure one would just be a big version of the splash screen
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I think we need to keep them simple . . .iconic . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Can you produce some examples and post links as you did
      with the other images?
      [Chair]Eddy: you bet
      [Chair]Eddy: I think I should post to the main list for suggestions too
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Cool. Looking forward to seeing them . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Now, on to the T-Shirts . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I'm about to storm my friends office to find out where our
      quote is . . . I'll get in touch with them this week and will get more info.
      In preparation for that, we need too settle upon what we want to have on the
      shirt.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Any thoughts?
      [Chair]Eddy: What was that quote you had?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Paul? Can you recall?
      [Chair]Eddy: "I got PCGen for free and all I bought was this lousy t-shirt"
      [Chair]Eddy: or something
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Ket ne check my archive . ..
      [Chair]Eddy: I was also looking a getting a cheap button maker
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: "I got PCGen for free, and all I bought was this lousy
      t-shirt"
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Cool . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Did we want any artwork on the dhirt? Or just the words?
      [Chair]Eddy: If we can afford art let's do it
      [Chair]Eddy: Anyway it's late, shall we call it a night?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: The initial quote I got included artwork.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Sounds good to me . . . We can talk more of this on the
      list.
      [Chair]Eddy: Cool
      [Chair]Eddy: Thanks for coming everyone
      [Chair]Eddy: *bangs gavel*
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