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BoD Log - 6/2/2008

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  • Andrew Maitland
    [19:00] [Chair]Eddy: lets get started [19:01] [Chair]Eddy: I m thinking that since we are at the decision time for the production release the status reports
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 2, 2008
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      [19:00] [Chair]Eddy: lets get started
      [19:01] [Chair]Eddy: I'm thinking that since we are at the decision time
      for the production release the status reports don't make much sence
      [19:01] [Arch_SB]thpr: okay
      [19:02] [Arch_SB]thpr: I have a few 5.15 comments at some point, though
      [19:02] [Chair]Eddy: and we should just start with agenda item 1: go/no go
      [19:02] [Chair]Eddy: no problem
      [19:02] [Arch_SB]thpr: Don't we kinda need James for that?
      [19:02] [PR_SB]Maredudd: PR says Go . . .
      [19:02] [Chair]Eddy: Yes
      [19:02] [Chair]Eddy: we do
      [19:02] [Admin]Andrew: Admin is on the fence
      [19:02] [Admin]Andrew: We've had last minute Bug reports
      [19:02] [Chair]Eddy: I though we would go by teams and see if we have
      any issue
      [19:02] [Admin]Andrew: ok
      [19:03] [Chair]Eddy: bugs for which team Andrew
      [19:03] [Chair]Eddy: ?
      [19:03] [Admin]Andrew: Bugs - hold on a sec, and I'll pull them up
      [19:03] *** [Code_SB]james has joined #pcgen.
      [19:03] [Chair]Eddy: If we need to hit anything signifigant we'll be
      doing another RC
      [19:03] [Chair]Eddy: Hi James
      [19:03] [Admin]Andrew: [BUG] 14.0 RC3 can't select bonus languages for
      monster character with bonus HD
      [19:04] [Code_SB]james: Hi everyone
      [19:04] [Admin]Andrew: [BUG] 5.14.0 RC3 loss of age selection
      (Venerable) and thus stat/skill problems
      [19:04] [Admin]Andrew: Hi James
      [19:04] [PR_SB]Maredudd: HI James!
      [19:04] [Chair]Eddy: We're going right to the first item: go/no go for
      production release
      [19:04] [Admin]Andrew: BUG]? RC2 bought Sack (Small) becomes Sack
      (Medium) as equipment
      [19:04] [Admin]Andrew: Those are the last minute bugs... otherwise I'm good
      [19:04] [Arch_SB]thpr: where are you pulling these from?
      [19:05] [Arch_SB]thpr: what are the tracker #s?
      [19:05] [Code_SB]james: The 5.14.1 queue presumably
      [19:05] [Admin]Andrew: Right off the mail client... sorry...
      [19:05] [Admin]Andrew: I'm multi-tasking....
      [19:05] [Chair]Eddy: are any of these show stoppers or do they have work
      arounds (which would be enough to move them into the 5.14.1 box)
      [19:06] [Admin]Andrew: I think those are fine... I wouldn't call them
      show stoppers... Oh, I did find this in the 5.14 pool
      [19:06] [Admin]Andrew: 1937889 PREVISION Bugged?
      [19:06] [Admin]Andrew: That should be 5.15
      [19:07] [Admin]Andrew: Okay, looks like they all are work around-able
      [19:07] [Chair]Eddy: Cool
      [19:07] [Admin]Andrew: Admin says - Go
      [19:07] [Admin]Andrew: :)
      [19:07] [Chair]Eddy: OK lets go to Data
      [19:07] [PR_SB]Maredudd: PR already said Go . . .
      [19:08] [Admin]Andrew: That's you Eddy... :)
      [19:08] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Docs say go . . .
      [19:08] [Chair]Eddy: When we started the RC series we were good to go as
      far as I knew
      [19:08] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Not that Docs gets a vote . . . :-)
      [19:08] [Code_SB]james: I'm happy wiith the current state of things, so
      that's a go from code
      [19:08] [Chair]Eddy: I've been distracted lately by RL (sorry) so anyone
      know of any data issues that have slipped past my attention?
      [19:09] [Admin]Andrew: None that can't be table for 5.16 or 5.14.1
      [19:09] [Chair]Eddy: Doc's get a vote in this case :-)
      [19:09] [Code_SB]james: The only concern I have is the one that I raised
      a while ago and then Andrew raised again, which is .MOD on feats now
      complains if it doesn't have a category
      [19:09] [Chair]Eddy: OS is in as good a shape as it's going to be (wish
      it were better though)
      [19:10] [PR_SB]Maredudd: There are a coule of doc trackers that I will
      be working hard to get in before James says cease, but in the end, those
      that I have can wait till 5.14.1 if they have to.
      [19:10] [Admin]Andrew: Yeah, James that relates to Ability and Feat file
      [19:10] [Chair]Eddy: James, does it do that from an ability file or a
      feat file (or both)?
      [19:11] [Code_SB]james: Yes, the change was intended and required foor
      ability support, but will impact existing data
      [19:11] [Admin]Andrew: I experience it only when .MOD from an ability file
      [19:11] [Code_SB]james: Eddy it affects both
      [19:11] [Chair]Eddy: Can't be from a feat file because ALL the core
      feats have DESC tags MODed on and they don't complain
      [19:11] [Arch_SB]thpr: Well, when you're in an Ability File, you have to
      specify the CATEGORY
      [19:11] [Code_SB]james: ok, then its fine :)
      [19:11] [Chair]Eddy: So that's not a bug
      [19:12] [Code_SB]james: Oh its not a bug either way
      [19:12] [Arch_SB]thpr: sounds like it's working as intended to me...
      [19:12] [Admin]Andrew: I would point out...
      [19:12] [Chair]Eddy: and personally I'm thinking if you're coding feats
      you should stick them in a feat file for clarity and simplicity
      [19:12] [Admin]Andrew: That CATEGORY=FEAT|Dodge.MOD is where it will
      [19:12] [Arch_SB]thpr: in a FEAT file?
      [19:13] [Admin]Andrew: Nope, Ability file....
      [19:13] [Arch_SB]thpr: shoudn't complain
      [19:13] [Admin]Andrew: I agree, keep actual feats in feat file, and
      everything else in ability file
      [19:14] [Chair]Eddy: CATEGORY=FEAT|Dodge.MOD in an ability file should
      not cause a problem, that would be a bug
      [19:14] [Chair]Eddy: what is the error message?
      [19:15] [Admin]Andrew: LSTERROR
      (509): PObject CATEGORY=FEAT|Far Shot not found; .MOD skipped.
      (511): PObject CATEGORY=FEAT|Improved Critical not found; .MOD skipped.
      (513): PObject CATEGORY=FEAT|Improved Precise Shot not found; .MOD skipped.
      (515): PObject CATEGORY=FEAT|Manyshot not found; .MOD skipped.
      (517): PObject CATEGORY=FEAT|Precise Shot not found; .MOD skipped.
      (519): PObject CATEGORY=FEAT|Rapid Shot not found; .MOD skipped.
      (521): PObject CATEGORY=FEAT|Shot on the Run not found; .MOD skipped.
      (547): PObject CATEGORY=FEAT|Exotic Weapon Proficiency not found; .MOD
      All Done
      [19:15] [Chair]Eddy: Doh! looks like Andrew still has connection issues
      [19:15] [Admin]Andrew: I didn't until I sent the file
      [19:15] [Admin]Andrew: crap
      [19:16] [Admin]Andrew: Did it come through?
      [19:16] [Admin]Andrew: LSTERROR
      (509): PObject CATEGORY=FEAT|Far Shot not found; .MOD skipped.
      (511): PObject CATEGORY=FEAT|Improved Critical not found; .MOD skipped.
      (513): PObject CATEGORY=FEAT|Improved Precise Shot not found; .MOD skipped.
      (515): PObject CATEGORY=FEAT|Manyshot not found; .MOD skipped.

      [19:16] [Admin]Andrew: That's the error message
      [19:17] [Chair]Eddy: And it will work if that is moved to a feat file?
      [19:18] [Chair]Eddy: If that is happening it definitely a bug, but since
      the work around is simple enough (move to a feat file) this can go into
      the 5.14.1 bucket
      [19:18] [Chair]Eddy: agreed?
      [19:18] [Admin]Andrew: Agree
      [19:19] [Chair]Eddy: OK, Go from Content then
      [19:19] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Tom?
      [19:19] [Chair]Eddy: We've go a go from Content, Admin, PR, how about
      Code and Arch?
      [19:20] [Arch_SB]thpr: go from me
      [19:20] [Chair]Eddy: James?
      [19:21] [Admin]Andrew: I think he's responding
      [19:21] [Code_SB]james: Yep, go from me, as stated earlier
      [19:21] [Chair]Eddy: Thanks
      [19:21] [Chair]Eddy: We're go for launch Woot!
      [19:21] [Admin]Andrew: Yay!
      [19:21] [Chair]Eddy: James what's you're release schedule?
      [19:21] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Whats the time frame James?
      [19:22] [Arch_SB]thpr: LOL poor James.... aren't we demanding?
      [19:22] [Admin]Andrew: Same time as always people... when he does it... :)
      [19:22] [Code_SB]james: Still scheduling other stuff but on the weekend
      at the latest
      [19:23] [Chair]Eddy: OK, as it happens I'm traveling this week so I
      won't be able to do the Mac build until Sunday night when I get back.
      [19:24] [Admin]Andrew: Well, Looks like the weekend
      [19:24] [Admin]Andrew: Plenty of time for Eric to get in those last
      minute doc trackers
      [19:24] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Geat! Give me a few more days to get doc
      trackers done . . . :-)
      [19:25] [Admin]Andrew: Okay - sounds good... What is next to discuss?
      [19:25] [Chair]Eddy: Next item then: 2.) 5.14.1 - A not insignificant
      number of code bugs and other
      [19:26] [Chair]Eddy: good idea
      [19:27] [Code_SB]james: afk for a bit...
      [19:27] [Chair]Eddy: not sure we need to discuss this... we just need to
      do it ;-)
      [19:27] [Chair]Eddy: any comments?
      [19:27] [Arch_SB]thpr: not from me
      [19:27] [Admin]Andrew: Um, when do we want 5.14.1 released?
      [19:27] [Admin]Andrew: Do we have a timeline?
      [19:28] [Arch_SB]thpr: Sept ish?
      [19:28] [Admin]Andrew: Do we focus on it or 5.15 stuff currently?
      [19:28] [Arch_SB]thpr: what was 5.16?
      [19:28] [Arch_SB]thpr: Well, we should at least consider a 5.14.1 in
      case Barak comes up with anything
      [19:29] [Chair]Eddy: lets just get the 5.14.1 trackers done and see what
      pops up once 5.14.0 hits
      [19:29] [Arch_SB]thpr: So - back to a previous topic - where is the
      tracker for the CATEGORY= problem?
      [19:29] [Admin]Andrew: none has been made yet... working on it...
      [19:29] [Arch_SB]thpr: Assign to me, pls
      [19:30] [Admin]Andrew: okay
      [19:30] *** Eslaf has left #pcgen.
      [19:31] [PR_SB]Maredudd: brb
      [19:31] [Chair]Eddy: Next item then: 3.) 5.15.0 (Alpha) - When should
      we do a first release? It looks
      [19:32] [Chair]Eddy: although we've lost James and Eric temporarily
      [19:32] [Arch_SB]thpr: looks like we're on hold for a moment
      [19:32] [Admin]Andrew: I'd say two weeks
      [19:32] [Arch_SB]thpr: <insert elevator music>
      [19:32] [Admin]Andrew: Tom has already added significant core changes,
      and I've seen some good data changes flying by
      [19:33] [Arch_SB]thpr: A few thoughts:
      [19:33] [Arch_SB]thpr: Already looks like a few data issues in SRD 3.0
      with using - for CRITRANGE rather than 0 (Data Bug 1982829)
      [19:33] [Arch_SB]thpr: Also, the system will report problems with SPELL
      COST since some data uses the unimplemented x|y,z format (Dev Spec 1968742)
      [19:33] [PR_SB]Maredudd: I'm back . . .
      [19:33] [Arch_SB]thpr: As an "arch" report on 5.15:
      [19:33] [Arch_SB]thpr: Token conversion in 5.15 is well underway -
      people should report any problems that they are seeing
      [19:33] [Arch_SB]thpr: I have converted 148 of 356 tokens
      [19:33] [Admin]Andrew: I'll get my dev version changed to 5.15 dev then
      [19:34] [Arch_SB]thpr: ...of the remaining 208:
      [19:34] [Arch_SB]thpr: 92 global + 20 local tokens are gated by a
      context design issue just discovered today (order of ops issue)
      [19:34] [Arch_SB]thpr: 57 from Kits/Companion Mods, pending evaluation
      of difficulty
      [19:34] [Arch_SB]thpr: 10 are being held up pending installation of new
      token Category support into 5.15 (I'm noodling on whether there is a
      better way than exists in the current CDOM branch, since it has a LOT of
      Generics/type safety issues it injects into the code)
      [19:34] [Arch_SB]thpr: 6 "hard" (T/HD, T/LEVEL, T/REPEATLEVEL, EQM/COST,
      [19:34] [Arch_SB]thpr: 3 to be removed/deprecated (C/HASSUBCLASS,
      [19:34] [Arch_SB]thpr: 20 others to do
      [19:34] [Arch_SB]thpr:
      [19:35] [Code_SB]james: back
      [19:36] [Admin]Andrew: welcome back
      [19:36] [Chair]Eddy: Tom since you've got this major project going in
      the trunk it makes sence for you to make the call as to when to do the
      first 5.15.0 release
      [19:36] * [Arch_SB]thpr points at James
      [19:36] [Code_SB]james: Can I suggest that we get 5.14.1 cleared before
      we start on 5.15 releases?
      [19:37] [Code_SB]james: We want to get the 5.14.1 release out asap and
      that way it keeps the focus
      [19:37] [Code_SB]james: It also gives Tom time to get the tokens sorted
      out properly before doing a release
      [19:38] [Code_SB]james: Thoughts?
      [19:38] [Chair]Eddy: I agree with that but we do need some time to go by
      for the public to find some bug
      [19:38] [Arch_SB]thpr: There is a good list of 5.14 items tho
      [19:38] [Chair]Eddy: the production release get way more downloads that
      the unstables
      [19:38] [Arch_SB]thpr: 5.14.1
      [19:38] [Code_SB]james: Oh, with 20+ things in thew 5.14.1 queue it will
      be a few weeks
      [19:39] [Admin]Andrew: Yeah...
      [19:39] [Chair]Eddy: But I do agree we should try and knock the 5.14.1
      stuff out fast
      [19:40] [PR_SB]Maredudd: My only issue with getting 5.14.1 out fast is
      it would be a shame to hace CDs with 5.14.0 at Gen Con but 5.14.1
      downloadable from the site . . .
      [19:40] [Chair]Eddy: one problem is that Barak may not have CMP's data
      done for 5.14 for a while and once he does those users may uncover something
      [19:40] [PR_SB]Maredudd: But, I wouldn't let that get in the way of
      progress . . . :-)
      [19:40] [Chair]Eddy: but of coarse we can always do a 5.14.2 if it comes
      to that
      [19:40] [Arch_SB]thpr: So let's tackle the 5.14.1 stuff as best we can
      [19:41] [Arch_SB]thpr: and if we really knock the stuff out fast, then
      it's something to discuss
      [19:41] [Arch_SB]thpr: if not, no problem
      [19:41] [Code_SB]james: Very true Eddy
      [19:41] [Chair]Eddy: That sounds like a plan to me :-)
      [19:41] [Admin]Andrew: Question
      [19:41] [Chair]Eddy: shoot
      [19:41] [PR_SB]Maredudd: PR like it . . .
      [19:41] [Admin]Andrew: When do we start work on 5.14.1 issues?
      [19:41] [PR_SB]Maredudd: likes . . .
      [19:42] [Chair]Eddy: yesterday ;-)
      [19:42] [PR_SB]Maredudd: As soonas 5.14.0 goes out the door . . .
      [19:42] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Cuz if its done before that, it was a 5.14.0
      issue . . . :-)
      [19:42] [Chair]Eddy: what he said
      [19:42] [Arch_SB]thpr: Well, if there are still doc changes for 5.14.0
      [19:42] [Admin]Andrew: Yeah, funny
      [19:43] [Arch_SB]thpr: then we should wait for those to be done before
      we alter code & data
      [19:43] [Arch_SB]thpr: the point being that James will want to pick one
      SVN release for 5.14.0
      [19:43] [Arch_SB]thpr: and we don
      [19:43] [Arch_SB]thpr: 't want that to be different by directory
      [19:44] [Arch_SB]thpr: So either we branch it, or the docs freeze with
      the first 5.14.1 change checked in - up to James on how he wants that to
      [19:44] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Docs generally lag code changes . . . and I
      stop working docs changes when James tells me too . . .
      [19:45] [Code_SB]james: OK lets do it this way - code and data freeze on
      the 5.14 branch
      [19:45] [Code_SB]james: Docs are ok
      [19:45] [Admin]Andrew: Um, the spell mastery feat I just fixed... can I
      just merge it in the 5.14 branch... it kills a data bug for 5.14.1
      [19:45] [Chair]Eddy: what's the bug?
      [19:45] [Code_SB]james: Tom has a quick fix he will commit for the
      problem we discussed on CATEGORY=FEAT .MODs
      [19:46] [Arch_SB]thpr: James: already done
      [19:46] [Code_SB]james: Lovely
      [19:46] [Admin]Andrew: Spell Mastery Feat
      [19:46] [Admin]Andrew: From OP:
      [pcgen] [DATA][BUG][5.14 RC1] Spell Mastery Feat
      6:26 AM on 5/16/2008
      I created a 5th level wizard with a 19 INT and tried to add Spell
      Mastery as the character's 5th level wizard feat. The feat should
      allow me to select four spells (INT bonus), but it only allows me to
      select 1.

      I am loading RSRD sets I & II, and the latest version of java on an XP


      Sir George Anonymous
      [19:46] [Admin]Andrew: The fix essentially corrects the problem and it
      takes all of 5 minutes to enter it, pl and then svn it
      [19:47] [Chair]Eddy: OK, that's significant, I'm for including it in 5.14.0
      [19:47] [Admin]Andrew: The tracker I closed accidentally
      [19:47] [Chair]Eddy: I didn't realize the current coding of that was no
      longer working
      [19:47] [Code_SB]james: ok, lets freeze in an hour
      [19:47] [Admin]Andrew: No problem... I'll submit the fix then
      [19:47] [Code_SB]james: Docs only from then
      [19:48] [Admin]Andrew: Sounds good
      [19:48] [Admin]Andrew: freeze on the 5.14 branch only correct?
      [19:48] [Code_SB]james: Eric, the upgrade docs would be great to get
      done and then we can simplify the release notes by linking to them
      [19:48] [Code_SB]james: Correct
      [19:48] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Thats in the que . . .
      [19:48] [PR_SB]Maredudd: In fact, I'll probably tackle it first . . .
      [19:50] [Chair]Eddy: Alright, we ready to go to the next item?
      [19:50] [Chair]Eddy: 4.) The road to 5.16 - Was everyone happy with my Freq
      [19:50] * [Arch_SB]thpr raises eyebrow
      [19:51] [Arch_SB]thpr: Does that refer to Kar's tracker sorting?
      [19:51] [Arch_SB]thpr: I don't think James or I have looked at the code
      [19:51] [Chair]Eddy: yes, this agenda is quoted from Kar's email
      [19:51] [Chair]Eddy: I must admit I haven't looked at the data stuff yet
      [19:51] [Code_SB]james: No, and it'll be next week before I get a chance
      to look at them
      [19:51] [Chair]Eddy: same here :-(
      [19:52] [Arch_SB]thpr: yea, I'm on volunteer duty this w/e, so we should
      probably just all report back at the next mtg
      [19:52] [PR_SB]Maredudd: I'm happy with the current Doc Tracker sort . .
      . Though thee a ton on Doc FREQs for 5.16 . . .
      [19:52] [Chair]Eddy: I know one thing that needs to be done is the data
      freqs need to be evaluated to see what code freqs are needed to support
      [19:53] [Arch_SB]thpr: yes
      [19:53] [Arch_SB]thpr: actually, we need to ensure the two Trackers
      refer to each other
      [19:53] [Chair]Eddy: there are a number of them that can't be done with
      the current code
      [19:53] [Arch_SB]thpr: that way we can trigger messages in the data freq
      once the code freq is done
      [19:53] [Arch_SB]thpr: and also help prioritize the code freqs
      [19:53] [Chair]Eddy: Yup
      [19:54] [Chair]Eddy: which leads me to bring this up:
      [19:54] [Admin]Andrew: Yes
      [19:54] [Chair]Eddy: I think our voting system on experimental is broken
      [19:54] [Admin]Andrew: oh?
      [19:54] [Arch_SB]thpr: when the Chimps get sparse, it's a problem
      [19:55] [Chair]Eddy: it works as long as we get participation but many
      of us drop out offten from time to time
      [19:55] [Chair]Eddy: yes
      [19:55] [Chair]Eddy: I reread Franks wiki entry in the process and it
      does not go into voting
      [19:55] [Chair]Eddy: I'd guess he came up with that after he wrote the
      [19:56] [Chair]Eddy: he originally specified that if 2 chimps agree and
      none decent then it could be passed to code
      [19:56] [Code_SB]james: dissent?
      [19:57] [Chair]Eddy: I'm thinking that will be more manageable
      [19:57] [Chair]Eddy: dissent (disagree)
      [19:58] [Chair]Eddy: with all the new games coming out I'm sure we're on
      the verge of a slew of proposales
      [19:58] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Manageble as long as at least two chimps
      participate in the discussion . . .
      [19:58] [Chair]Eddy: and Tom and James have been just great about
      keeping data involved in everything
      [19:59] [Chair]Eddy: we need to keep that partnership going and get it
      running smooth
      [19:59] [Admin]Andrew: Who is still an active Chimp?
      [19:59] [Chair]Eddy: I'd count Tir even though he's not currentl;y
      posting (he'll be back)
      [20:00] [Chair]Eddy: and then there is me and you (once I promote you :-)
      [20:00] [Admin]Andrew: :D
      [20:00] [Arch_SB]thpr: Aaron is a bit MIA
      [20:00] [Chair]Eddy: yup
      [20:00] [Admin]Andrew: 2nd
      [20:00] [Arch_SB]thpr: and Frank popped in for a while back and then
      dropped back into RL
      [20:00] [Admin]Andrew: the yup
      [20:00] [Chair]Eddy: Frank is MIA these days too
      [20:00] [Admin]Andrew: Curses REAL LIFE!!!!
      [20:01] [Admin]Andrew: OKay, Spell Mastery Feat is fixed in Trunk and 5.14
      [20:01] [Code_SB]james: Thanks Andrew
      [20:01] [Admin]Andrew: No Problem, can some one do a quick test run to
      make sure it works. My test worked, but I like a 2nd opinion
      [20:01] [Chair]Eddy: Anyway, that's my tangent, I'll start a thread on
      experimental about that
      [20:01] [Arch_SB]thpr: ok
      [20:02] [Admin]Andrew: Agreed. Once 5.14 is out the door I'll be
      talking with you to prioritize proposals to get moving along.... <Eddy>
      [20:03] [Chair]Eddy: sounds good
      [20:04] [Chair]Eddy: OK so the road map will have to wait a bit until
      the SB's can do a review
      [20:04] [Chair]Eddy: next sub item: 4.a.) Sounds like Stefan is working
      solidly on Pathfinder, James can
      [20:05] [Chair]Eddy: I think this ties in to what I was talking about
      [20:05] [Chair]Eddy: I think some FREQs have been submitted
      [20:06] [Chair]Eddy: but as this game will be under development for a
      year I don't think we can expect to see a complete FREQ list out of it
      [20:06] [Chair]Eddy: probably we'll see the FREQs as it is realized they
      are needed
      [20:07] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Pathfinder Beta is due out at Gen Con . . .
      [20:07] [Chair]Eddy: but the final will be GenCon 09
      [20:07] [Chair]Eddy: I expect 4e freqs will start in about a week :-)
      [20:07] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Right.
      [20:08] [Chair]Eddy: which brings me to: 4.b.) 4e, I assume no further
      news from Linae?
      [20:08] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Nope.
      [20:09] [Code_SB]james: Going back to 4a, how are we going to respond
      when someone says I need to be able to do x to support my 4e set?
      [20:09] [PR_SB]Maredudd: At this point, I think its safe to say we won't
      be getting an early look at the GSL . . .
      [20:09] [Chair]Eddy: looks like we'll see the GSL will when everybody
      else does
      [20:10] [Admin]Andrew: Yes, I think that is a good point, what do we do
      about code freqs geared towards 4e
      [20:10] [Chair]Eddy: James, Code wise is there any reason not to respond
      with a FREQ like any other?
      [20:10] [Admin]Andrew: I'd say we treat them as any other freq...
      [20:11] [Code_SB]james: No reason not to and I think they should get a
      default scheduling of 5.16
      [20:11] [Chair]Eddy: even if we can't make a dataset there isn't any
      reason we can't make the code support it right
      [20:11] [Chair]Eddy: I agree James
      [20:11] [PR_SB]Maredudd: I agree . . .
      [20:12] [Admin]Andrew: Agree
      [20:12] [Code_SB]james: There will be the effect of there being much
      more discussion on the lists about ways of modelling rules and they will
      no doubt mention 4e. I doon'
      [20:12] [Admin]Andrew: d
      [20:13] [Code_SB]james: What is our stance on that?
      [20:14] [Admin]Andrew: People can mention things on the lists, Freqs we
      handle like we always do.
      [20:15] [Chair]Eddy: We encourage being generic but it's not a problem
      with specific mentions
      [20:15] [Admin]Andrew: Until we know the GSL, we treat it as
      unpermissioned and Closed content
      [20:15] [Chair]Eddy: right
      [20:15] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Right
      [20:15] [Admin]Andrew: Right
      [20:16] [Admin]Andrew: Left?
      [20:16] [Admin]Andrew: afk phone
      [20:16] [Chair]Eddy: drat, I just realized I'm going to be away from a
      computer when that hit's the streets
      [20:17] [Chair]Eddy: wonder when my books will get to me
      [20:17] [Chair]Eddy: anyone preorder?
      [20:17] [Code_SB]james: I'd just like to make sure we don't scare people
      away. We'll have new people about so we may need to be gentler than we
      have been in the past
      [20:17] [Code_SB]james: I get a PHB for free :)
      [20:17] Fitzs: preorder me
      [20:17] [Admin]Andrew: Beta Tester perks!
      [20:17] [Code_SB]james: Yep
      [20:17] Fitzs: all three in the box
      [20:18] [Arch_SB]thpr: all my GMs declared we're sticking with 3.5
      [20:18] [Arch_SB]thpr: so no orders yet for me
      [20:18] [Admin]Andrew: Okay, I'll tone it down.... :( I didn't realize
      I came off so harshly... :P
      [20:18] [PR_SB]Maredudd: We're sticking ith 3.5, but I'll probably pick
      up all three after the rush is over . . .
      [20:18] [Chair]Eddy: I have no idea if I'll play it but I'm such a
      collector I had to get the box set :-)
      [20:19] Fitzs: When I get mine via Previews, I'll loag the GSL up to the
      PL file holding area
      [20:20] [Chair]Eddy: Next item: 5.) Gencon, I assume all is well
      (reading from the wiki)
      [20:21] [Chair]Eddy: I'll be focusing on the design work for all our
      stuff once I get back from vacation next week
      [20:21] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Time is getting short and there are a number of
      items that we will need to take care of soon.
      [20:22] [PR_SB]Maredudd: We will need artwork and CD image by the end of
      June at the latest.
      [20:22] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Thanks Eddy!
      [20:22] [Chair]Eddy: Yeah, it should not take me long to know that stuff out
      [20:22] [Chair]Eddy: I'll do the CD art first
      [20:23] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Cool!.
      [20:24] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Paul G will be handling the procurement of the
      flyers and we will need to ake sure we have the udated flyer, though I
      seem to recall we have a generic flyer . . .
      [20:24] [PR_SB]Maredudd: The Booth fees are in and I have recieved a
      confirmation of our booth . . .
      [20:25] [PR_SB]Maredudd: I have also received a number of additional
      packets of info from Gen Con, all of which I will upload to the folder
      on the BoD site.
      [20:25] Fitzs: The only flyer I can find is the 5.12.0 one
      [20:25] [Chair]Eddy: that's the last one I made
      [20:25] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Good news, we have enough money to do the CDs.
      Bad news, we don't have enough yet to do the T-Shirts.
      [20:25] [Chair]Eddy: I'll work on that after the CD art
      [20:26] [PR_SB]Maredudd: If the Board doesn't object, I'll send out
      another note asking for donation . . .
      [20:26] [Arch_SB]thpr: How short are we?
      [20:26] [Arch_SB]thpr: having those is key to getting income to be able
      to do this again, since I assume we aren't planning to give them away or
      sell them at cost?
      [20:27] [PR_SB]Maredudd: I am still waiting for the ID number for one of
      our volunteers before I send in the badge request. I'm upping the
      paster facter with out vomunteer . . . :-)
      [20:27] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Approximately $400.
      [20:28] [PR_SB]Maredudd: short that is.
      [20:28] Fitzs: Which vol?
      [20:29] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Pharr . . . I've got a note out to him and will
      be calling him tomorrow night if I don't get an email from him.
      [20:31] [PR_SB]Maredudd: All told, things are coming along. There are
      things to get dons, and I'll be posting more frequent notes on the BoD
      list as we get closer.
      [20:32] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Any questions?
      [20:32] [Chair]Eddy: not here
      [20:32] [Admin]Andrew: None from me
      [20:32] [Code_SB]james: Rather than another requets for donations, what
      about doing a status update?
      [20:33] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Status update to the standard channels for
      press releases?
      [20:33] [Chair]Eddy: that's a good idea, tell em what they are paying for
      [20:33] [PR_SB]Maredudd: I can do that instead . . .
      [20:34] [Code_SB]james: Well, probably only need to do the pcgen list -
      not sure we'd get a lot of donations form anyone not on that list and it
      could be seen as spam on other places
      [20:34] [Admin]Andrew: Yeah, I'm in agreement with James on that
      [20:34] [Code_SB]james: We don't need a lot more to achieve the full
      presence we set out to have
      [20:35] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Makes sense to me . . . I'll provide a status
      to the community.
      [20:35] [PR_SB]Maredudd: I have been maitaining the wiki page with the
      latest general status as well.
      [20:35] [Code_SB]james: Cool
      [20:35] [Code_SB]james: Including a link in the email would be good too
      [20:36] [PR_SB]Maredudd: So, who can put together the disc image?
      [20:36] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Yep. A link to the general page has gone into
      every message so far . . . :-)
      [20:36] [Admin]Andrew: I can if nobody else is able or willing
      [20:36] [PR_SB]Maredudd: And what do we want on it?
      [20:37] [Admin]Andrew: is that a trick question?
      [20:37] [Admin]Andrew: PCGen 5.14 !!!!!
      [20:37] [PR_SB]Maredudd: I like the image that Eddy puts together for
      the Mac Install package. Something like that would be great!
      [20:38] [Admin]Andrew: I second the motion
      [20:38] [Admin]Andrew: Eddy you're in charge of CD Image
      [20:38] [PR_SB]Maredudd: I've been busy . . . Did FiM get in yet?
      [20:38] Fitzs: The one for Origin will have the 2.12.1 and RC whatever,
      both windows and Mac versions
      [20:38] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Thats great Terry!
      [20:38] [Admin]Andrew: FiM is not in 5.14
      [20:39] [Code_SB]james: It should have three things - the Windows
      installer, the Mac installer and the full zip
      [20:39] [Admin]Andrew: It's awaiting a Chimp review
      [20:39] [Code_SB]james: That covers all user types
      [20:39] [Code_SB]james: Oh and it should have the source too to cover
      our licencing requirements
      [20:39] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Then, if we can get it done before we master
      the CD image, we can ainclude it as an OOC Dataset . . .
      [20:40] [PR_SB]Maredudd: So we're loking at the Windows Installer, the
      Mac Installer, the Full zip, the Source Code, and possible FiM as an OOC
      Dataset . . .
      [20:40] [Admin]Andrew: Well, it's assigned to the Data Content SB - >>>
      [20:41] [PR_SB]Maredudd: And the Release Notes . . . ?
      [20:42] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Anything else?
      [20:42] [Chair]Eddy: I'll see if I can make the CD image, not sure as
      I'm on a Mac and the image needs to be, what ISO?
      [20:42] [Admin]Andrew: ISO yes
      [20:43] [PR_SB]Maredudd: I believe so, but just to make sure, I'll check
      with the replicating service to verify . . .
      [20:43] [Admin]Andrew: ISO is a standard CD image format
      [20:43] [Admin]Andrew: Should work for us.
      [20:44] [PR_SB]Maredudd: As of right now, We're looking at 1000 CDs,
      with 4 color printing, in sleeves.
      [20:44] [Admin]Andrew: Cool
      [20:45] [PR_SB]Maredudd: If the artwork can be done in three colors, it
      will save us about $25.
      [20:45] [Arch_SB]thpr: we're doing 4 color printing even though we
      haven't yet budgeted the t-shirts
      [20:45] [Arch_SB]thpr: what's 1-color save us?
      [20:45] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Cutting the color count won't save us enough to
      get the t-shirts. Most of the cost of the CDs is in the quantity.
      [20:46] [Arch_SB]thpr: but before we order them, we should evaluate that
      [20:46] [Arch_SB]thpr: based on where we are with the t-shirts
      [20:46] [Arch_SB]thpr: color on the CD's is the lowest priority, IMHO
      [20:46] [PR_SB]Maredudd: I'll get the specific delta and post it to the
      BoD list.
      [20:46] [Arch_SB]thpr: thanks
      [20:47] [Chair]Eddy: Kar's last item was the website but as we haven't
      had any progress on that I don't see any discussion items
      [20:47] [Chair]Eddy: anyone want to comment?
      [20:47] [Admin]Andrew: Yeah
      [20:48] [Admin]Andrew: He's posted his evaluation of the various
      software engines/ whatever you want to call it
      [20:48] [Admin]Andrew: Our best option is the one we're testing now
      [20:48] [Admin]Andrew: Hopefully once 5.14 is out the door, Kar will
      turn his attention to getting that to work
      [20:49] [Admin]Andrew: My skills navigating it, well let's say even I
      was dumbfounded
      [20:49] [Admin]Andrew: Our road block is setting up a second mailinglist
      [20:49] [Admin]Andrew: Kar is in active discussion with those developers
      and was trying to see if we could round up a volunteer to assist them
      [20:50] [Admin]Andrew: That's about all I know at this point and time -
      [20:50] [Chair]Eddy: not here
      [20:50] [Code_SB]james: Any reaosn why we couldn't only migrate one list
      there rather than all - it would be nice to move along on this and get
      our own site
      [20:50] [Arch_SB]thpr: yea
      [20:51] [Arch_SB]thpr: I think the separate lists are valuable
      [20:51] [Code_SB]james: Valuable or show stoppers?
      [20:51] [Admin]Andrew: We could just use one list, but I think the
      segregation is invaluable in keeping information in the right spot
      [20:51] [Code_SB]james: That's what we are treating it as now
      [20:51] [Admin]Andrew: I automatically know what to expect when I see an
      email in the lst help section
      [20:52] [Admin]Andrew: So I prioritize going there first to see if I can
      [20:52] [Code_SB]james: Very true, but we could leave that on Yahoo for
      [20:52] [Admin]Andrew: Yes, we can...
      [20:52] [Code_SB]james: Anyway, just food for thought
      [20:52] [Admin]Andrew: I'd feel more comfortable ironing out a few bugs
      and field testing before migrating over
      [20:53] [Code_SB]james: Absolutely
      [20:53] [Admin]Andrew: There was also the issue of the svn
      [20:53] [Admin]Andrew: We maintain the site via svn, that wouldn't be
      the case if we migrate
      [20:53] [Arch_SB]thpr: Let's have Kar read this and we can have an
      explicit note to him to look at whether we want to try one list
      [20:53] [Code_SB]james: Let's leave that where it is - its fine on SF
      [20:53] [Arch_SB]thpr: I agree with James
      [20:53] [Code_SB]james: Ah yes
      [20:54] [Arch_SB]thpr: svn stays where it is for now
      [20:54] [Admin]Andrew: I agree, SVN stays at SF
      [20:54] [Admin]Andrew: but my point is the SITE (Website we show the
      public) is maintained inside the svn
      [20:54] [Admin]Andrew: If we migrate to a new site, I don't think that
      would be the case...
      [20:54] [Code_SB]james: Yes we would need a new process for that
      [20:55] [Admin]Andrew: So, as you can see, we do have some tough choices
      and problems to over come in our desire to get the website up and going
      [20:56] [Admin]Andrew: If anyone would like to tinker with the test
      site, let me know... I'll get you access so you can take a look
      [20:56] [Admin]Andrew: I can have a list of issues and problems for the
      website next meeting if you all would like.
      [20:57] [Admin]Andrew: Comments?
      [20:57] [Admin]Andrew: Questions?
      [20:57] [Code_SB]james: None here
      [20:57] [Chair]Eddy: no, sounds good
      [20:58] [Admin]Andrew: Okay... I'll see about having a list next meeting
      [20:58] [PR_SB]Maredudd: None from me . . .
      [20:58] [Admin]Andrew: I can also forward to Kar and see what he says
      [20:58] [Chair]Eddy: OK, anyone have any additional discussion items?
      [20:58] [Code_SB]james: No
      [20:59] [PR_SB]Maredudd: I have a quick go-back . . .
      [20:59] [Admin]Andrew: Seeing as it's 2 hours.... nope
      [20:59] [PR_SB]Maredudd: As a follow on to the earlier question about
      why 4 color printing on the CDs, the estimated cost of 1000 CDs with 1
      color printing and paper sleeves is $545, while the cost of 1000 CDs
      with 4 color printing and paper sleeves is $590. A $45 delta.
      [20:59] [Arch_SB]thpr: not big enough to spend much time worrying about
      [21:00] [Admin]Andrew: Yeah, sounds fine.
      [21:00] [Chair]Eddy: agreed
      [21:00] [Admin]Andrew: Eddy I can handle the log... I wasn't gone more
      than 30 seconds
      [21:00] [Chair]Eddy: alright, lets call it a night
      [21:00] [Arch_SB]thpr: I just wanted to make sure it wasn't really big -
      thanks for looking that up Eric
      [21:00] Fitzs: Should we consider a list of titals we are not allowed to
      do for one reason or another?
      [21:00] [PR_SB]Maredudd: Its a night . . .
      [21:01] [Chair]Eddy: Thanks for coming everyone *bangs gavel*

      ~ Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      ~ Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
      ~ Data Gibbon, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Lemur
      "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
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