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Re: [ pcgen-Data Feature Requests-1584052 ] RSRD] Add House Rule for 0hd outsiders/Martial Weapons Prof.

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  • bebberd
    Don t forget the same logic that gives all Outsiders Types martial weapon Profs. also gives all Giant Types (specificlly the Troll) martial weapon Profs. ...
    Message 1 of 2 , May 20, 2008
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      Don't forget the same logic that gives all Outsiders Types martial weapon Profs. also gives all Giant Types (specificlly the Troll) martial weapon Profs.



      -----Original Message-----
      >From: "SourceForge.net" <noreply@...>
      >Sent: May 20, 2008 7:47 AM
      >To: noreply@...
      >Subject: [ pcgen-Data Feature Requests-1584052 ] RSRD] Add House Rule for 0hd outsiders/Martial Weapons Prof.
      >
      >Data Feature Requests item #1584052, was opened at 2006-10-24 23:36
      >Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by karianna
      >You can respond by visiting:
      >https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=750092&aid=1584052&group_id=25576
      >
      >Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread,
      >including the initial issue submission, for this request,
      >not just the latest update.
      >Category: Expand Existing Feature
      >>Group: For 5.16.0
      >Status: Open
      >Resolution: None
      >Priority: 6
      >Private: No
      >Submitted By: Frank Kliewe (frank_kliewe)
      >Assigned to: Andrew McDougall (tir-gwaith)
      >Summary: RSRD] Add House Rule for 0hd outsiders/Martial Weapons Prof.
      >
      >Initial Comment:
      >To elaborate more on this ruling I find (Based upon
      >the RSRD,
      >http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderTy
      >pe) that Oustiders are:
      >
      >1. Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and
      >any weapons mentioned in its entry.
      >2. Proficient with whatever type of armor (light,
      >medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well
      >as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as
      >wearing armor are not proficient with armor.
      >Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are
      >proficient with any form of armor.
      >
      >thus (Based upon their entries,
      >http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm):
      >
      >All Assimar should be proficient in Light Armor,
      >Medium Armor, Sheilds, Simple Weapons, and Martial
      >Weapons.
      >All Tieflings should be proficient in Light Armor,
      >Sheilds, Simple Weapons, and Martial Weapons.
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >>From: bebberd <bebberd@...>
      >>Sent: Oct 17, 2006 5:04 PM
      >>To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      >>Subject: [pcgen] [BUG?] Planetouched (Tieflings and
      >Assimar)
      >>
      >>I read on the WoTC Answers Feature that Planetouched
      >are proficient in all simple and martial weapons.
      >PCGen currently does not reflect this ruling.
      >>
      >>Quote: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?
      >x=dnd/arch/ask
      >___________________________________________________
      >
      >I'm happy for you that you've got a ruling from WotC
      >to use against
      >your DM. (Wouldn't fly with this DM).
      >
      >From the RSRD, and the bit we've implemented is
      >correct. See the
      >"Aasimar as Characters" and "Tiefling as Characters"
      >bit in
      >MonstersO-R.rtf. You might want to reference
      >MonstersasRaces.rtf as
      >well.
      >
      >I think the WotC poster there didn't take into
      >account the fact that
      >Aasimar and Tieflings are 0HD creatures, so some of
      >the stuff in the
      >stats comes from their class level. I haven't seen
      >anything in the
      >Errata or the FAQ to change that part of the
      >MonstersasRaces.rtf rule.
      >
      >the +1 Level adjustment comes from the Stat bonus,
      >energy resistances,
      >and the Spell like ability (Darkness for Tiefling).
      >The tiefling
      >entry even mentions that the default entry is
      >a "tiefling warrior" --
      >"The tiefling warrior presented here had the
      >following ability scores
      >before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12,
      >Int 10, Wis 9, Cha
      >8."
      >
      >No Bug, sorry.
      >
      >--
      >Tir Gwaith
      >PCGen LST Chimp
      >___________________________________________________
      >The Original question on the website asked
      >Specificly "Q: Do Aasimars and
      >Tieflings (having the outsider type but _NO RACIAL
      >HD_) gain proficiency
      >with all martial weapons?"
      >Based off the question I figured that a Yes answer
      >meant Yes... and a an
      >Answer from a feature called "Ask Wizards of the
      >Coast" would be an
      >official one. The ruling took me by suprise as well,
      >and thus my posts to
      >this list. to point out a discrepency between the
      >existing Dataset and a
      >new ruling. If you want to point out why Chris
      >Lindsay from WotC is wrong
      >that's fine with me too, I just wanted to notify you
      >of the ruling so it
      >could be resolved.
      >_____________________________________________________
      >On 10/23/06, David M. Bebber <bebberd@...>
      >wrote:
      >> OK, can we get an official PCGen Stance on this
      >issue?
      >> We could code it as a switch in the House rule
      >section so that we would be
      >> supporting both interpretations? (maybe
      >called "Militant Outsiders")
      >
      >
      >Official stance is that this is not a bug. :P
      >
      >But it was always PCGen's policy to support House
      >rules as much as
      >possible, so I'm going to enter a Data FREQ for this.
      >Can't give you
      >an ETA, though.
      >
      >Cheerio,
      >
      >Frank Kliewe
      >PCGen Content Silverback
      >
      >
      >----------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >Comment By: Frank Kliewe (frank_kliewe)
      >Date: 2007-02-26 03:14
      >
      >Message:
      >Logged In: YES
      >user_id=1241568
      >Originator: YES
      >
      >Tir, you said in the past you wanted to re-read the RSRD on the issue.
      >What's your latest interpretation? Move this to Bugs, or leave it at a Freq
      >to create a House Rule?
      >
      >-- Frank
      >
      >----------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >Comment By: Rageheart (rageheart)
      >Date: 2006-11-13 22:26
      >
      >Message:
      >Logged In: YES
      >user_id=95042
      >
      > This may not be a PCGen bug but it definately is a bug in the D20
      >system. The issue of traits of a creature Type not being
      >reflected in the individual creature seems to only effect 3 creatures in
      >the SRD.
      >
      >1. Planetouched (Assimar) Type: Outsider Type information states
      >all Giants are "Proficient with all simple and martial
      >weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry."
      >2. Planetouched (Tiefling) Type: Outsider Type information states
      >all Giants are "Proficient with all simple and martial
      >weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry."
      >3. Troll Type: Giant Type information states all Giants are
      >"proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as
      >any natural weapons."
      >
      > The example entries of the Planetouched in the Monster Manual are
      >proficient as per their Type, but also have classes
      >that obfuscate the issue. The Troll stands out, however, as it's entry
      >does not have the proficiency listed on it's statblock.
      >
      >Hopefully this clairifies the issue to any intrested parties.
      >
      >----------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >You can respond by visiting:
      >https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=750092&aid=1584052&group_id=25576


      ________________________________________
      PeoplePC Online
      A better way to Internet
      http://www.peoplepc.com
    • Martijn Verburg
      Added to FREQ ... weapon Profs. also gives all Giant Types (specificlly the Troll) martial weapon Profs. ... Rule for 0hd outsiders/Martial Weapons Prof. ...
      Message 2 of 2 , May 20, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Added to FREQ

        > Don't forget the same logic that gives all Outsiders Types martial
        weapon Profs. also gives all Giant Types (specificlly the Troll)
        martial weapon Profs.
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > >From: "SourceForge.net" <noreply@...>
        > >Sent: May 20, 2008 7:47 AM
        > >To: noreply@...
        > >Subject: [ pcgen-Data Feature Requests-1584052 ] RSRD] Add House
        Rule for 0hd outsiders/Martial Weapons Prof.
        > >
        > >Data Feature Requests item #1584052, was opened at 2006-10-24 23:36
        > >Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by karianna
        > >You can respond by visiting:
        >
        >https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=750092&aid=1584052&group_id=25576
        > >
        > >Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the
        comment thread,
        > >including the initial issue submission, for this request,
        > >not just the latest update.
        > >Category: Expand Existing Feature
        > >>Group: For 5.16.0
        > >Status: Open
        > >Resolution: None
        > >Priority: 6
        > >Private: No
        > >Submitted By: Frank Kliewe (frank_kliewe)
        > >Assigned to: Andrew McDougall (tir-gwaith)
        > >Summary: RSRD] Add House Rule for 0hd outsiders/Martial Weapons Prof.
        > >
        > >Initial Comment:
        > >To elaborate more on this ruling I find (Based upon
        > >the RSRD,
        > >http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderTy
        > >pe) that Oustiders are:
        > >
        > >1. Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and
        > >any weapons mentioned in its entry.
        > >2. Proficient with whatever type of armor (light,
        > >medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well
        > >as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as
        > >wearing armor are not proficient with armor.
        > >Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are
        > >proficient with any form of armor.
        > >
        > >thus (Based upon their entries,
        > >http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm):
        > >
        > >All Assimar should be proficient in Light Armor,
        > >Medium Armor, Sheilds, Simple Weapons, and Martial
        > >Weapons.
        > >All Tieflings should be proficient in Light Armor,
        > >Sheilds, Simple Weapons, and Martial Weapons.
        > >
        > >-----Original Message-----
        > >>From: bebberd <bebberd@...>
        > >>Sent: Oct 17, 2006 5:04 PM
        > >>To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        > >>Subject: [pcgen] [BUG?] Planetouched (Tieflings and
        > >Assimar)
        > >>
        > >>I read on the WoTC Answers Feature that Planetouched
        > >are proficient in all simple and martial weapons.
        > >PCGen currently does not reflect this ruling.
        > >>
        > >>Quote: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?
        > >x=dnd/arch/ask
        > >___________________________________________________
        > >
        > >I'm happy for you that you've got a ruling from WotC
        > >to use against
        > >your DM. (Wouldn't fly with this DM).
        > >
        > >From the RSRD, and the bit we've implemented is
        > >correct. See the
        > >"Aasimar as Characters" and "Tiefling as Characters"
        > >bit in
        > >MonstersO-R.rtf. You might want to reference
        > >MonstersasRaces.rtf as
        > >well.
        > >
        > >I think the WotC poster there didn't take into
        > >account the fact that
        > >Aasimar and Tieflings are 0HD creatures, so some of
        > >the stuff in the
        > >stats comes from their class level. I haven't seen
        > >anything in the
        > >Errata or the FAQ to change that part of the
        > >MonstersasRaces.rtf rule.
        > >
        > >the +1 Level adjustment comes from the Stat bonus,
        > >energy resistances,
        > >and the Spell like ability (Darkness for Tiefling).
        > >The tiefling
        > >entry even mentions that the default entry is
        > >a "tiefling warrior" --
        > >"The tiefling warrior presented here had the
        > >following ability scores
        > >before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12,
        > >Int 10, Wis 9, Cha
        > >8."
        > >
        > >No Bug, sorry.
        > >
        > >--
        > >Tir Gwaith
        > >PCGen LST Chimp
        > >___________________________________________________
        > >The Original question on the website asked
        > >Specificly "Q: Do Aasimars and
        > >Tieflings (having the outsider type but _NO RACIAL
        > >HD_) gain proficiency
        > >with all martial weapons?"
        > >Based off the question I figured that a Yes answer
        > >meant Yes... and a an
        > >Answer from a feature called "Ask Wizards of the
        > >Coast" would be an
        > >official one. The ruling took me by suprise as well,
        > >and thus my posts to
        > >this list. to point out a discrepency between the
        > >existing Dataset and a
        > >new ruling. If you want to point out why Chris
        > >Lindsay from WotC is wrong
        > >that's fine with me too, I just wanted to notify you
        > >of the ruling so it
        > >could be resolved.
        > >_____________________________________________________
        > >On 10/23/06, David M. Bebber <bebberd@...>
        > >wrote:
        > >> OK, can we get an official PCGen Stance on this
        > >issue?
        > >> We could code it as a switch in the House rule
        > >section so that we would be
        > >> supporting both interpretations? (maybe
        > >called "Militant Outsiders")
        > >
        > >
        > >Official stance is that this is not a bug. :P
        > >
        > >But it was always PCGen's policy to support House
        > >rules as much as
        > >possible, so I'm going to enter a Data FREQ for this.
        > >Can't give you
        > >an ETA, though.
        > >
        > >Cheerio,
        > >
        > >Frank Kliewe
        > >PCGen Content Silverback
        > >
        > >
        > >----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > >
        > >Comment By: Frank Kliewe (frank_kliewe)
        > >Date: 2007-02-26 03:14
        > >
        > >Message:
        > >Logged In: YES
        > >user_id=1241568
        > >Originator: YES
        > >
        > >Tir, you said in the past you wanted to re-read the RSRD on the issue.
        > >What's your latest interpretation? Move this to Bugs, or leave it
        at a Freq
        > >to create a House Rule?
        > >
        > >-- Frank
        > >
        > >----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > >
        > >Comment By: Rageheart (rageheart)
        > >Date: 2006-11-13 22:26
        > >
        > >Message:
        > >Logged In: YES
        > >user_id=95042
        > >
        > > This may not be a PCGen bug but it definately is a bug in the D20
        > >system. The issue of traits of a creature Type not being
        > >reflected in the individual creature seems to only effect 3
        creatures in
        > >the SRD.
        > >
        > >1. Planetouched (Assimar) Type: Outsider Type information
        states
        > >all Giants are "Proficient with all simple and martial
        > >weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry."
        > >2. Planetouched (Tiefling) Type: Outsider Type information
        states
        > >all Giants are "Proficient with all simple and martial
        > >weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry."
        > >3. Troll Type: Giant Type information states all Giants are
        > >"proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as
        > >any natural weapons."
        > >
        > > The example entries of the Planetouched in the Monster Manual are
        > >proficient as per their Type, but also have classes
        > >that obfuscate the issue. The Troll stands out, however, as it's entry
        > >does not have the proficiency listed on it's statblock.
        > >
        > >Hopefully this clairifies the issue to any intrested parties.
        > >
        > >----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > >
        > >You can respond by visiting:
        >
        >https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=750092&aid=1584052&group_id=25576
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________
        > PeoplePC Online
        > A better way to Internet
        > http://www.peoplepc.com
        >
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