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BoD Log 5/5/08

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  • Eddy Anthony
    [Chair]Eddy: I ve got 10pm, let s begin [Chair]Eddy: Greetings everyone, looks like we have everyone but Andrew, who is busy selling his house or something.
    Message 1 of 1 , May 5, 2008
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      [Chair]Eddy: I've got 10pm, let's begin
      [Chair]Eddy: Greetings everyone, looks like we have everyone but Andrew, who
      is busy selling his house or something.
      [Chair]Eddy: Tonights agenda items following status reports:
      [Chair]Eddy: 1.) 5.14 status (though we will likely cover this in the
      reports)
      [Chair]Eddy: 2.) Hyperlinks - shall we include links for all our included
      datasets
      [Chair]Eddy: 3.) Beyond 5.14 - raodmap, do we go to 5.16 or 6.0
      [Chair]Eddy: 4.) Beyond 5.14 Admin - cleanup of project resources
      [Chair]Eddy: 5.) Gencon - Status report
      [Chair]Eddy: Content Report
      [Chair]Eddy: Documentation
      [Chair]Eddy: Doc Bugs: 4 for 5.12 (3 total, unchanged since last meeting)
      [Chair]Eddy: Doc FREQs: 7 for 5.14 (35 total, +4 since last meeting)
      [Chair]Eddy: Doc status: still good to go, issues are being delt with as
      they are posted

      [Chair]Eddy: Output Sheets
      [Chair]Eddy: OS Bugs: 3 for 5.14 (4 total, unchanged since last meeting)
      [Chair]Eddy: OS FREQs: 2 for 5.14 (40 total, +1 since last meeting)
      [Chair]Eddy: Output Sheet status: unchanged since last meeting

      [Chair]Eddy: Data
      [Chair]Eddy: Data Bugs: 2 for 5.14 (31 Total, +1 since last meeting)
      [Chair]Eddy: Data FREQs: 2 for 5.14 (54 Total, +2 since last meeting)
      [Chair]Eddy: Data status: still good to go, issues are being delt with as
      they are posted

      [Chair]Eddy: Admin Report 20080505 (Reposted from BoD list by Andrew)
      [Chair]Eddy: Trackers - Everything seems fine. After 5.14 we we need a
      tracker review overhaul as our priorities have changed focus.
      [Chair]Eddy: ADMIN NOTE: We need add a 'TO BE FIXED FOR 5.16' to our
      trackers (Unless Kar already added that :-) sneaky ninja monkeys
      [Chair]Eddy: Website - We have a new candidate added to the pool. Kar is
      investigating this lead. Again, nothing serious till after 5.14 release
      [Chair]Eddy: Release - RC.2 in two weeks (James released RC.1 on Sunday).
      [Arch_SB]thpr: well, that assumes we go 5.16
      [Chair]Eddy: yup
      [Chair]Eddy: thats the end of Andrew's post, and content, questions?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I thought the RCs were 1 week apart?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: NOt from PR . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: I thought so too Tom,
      [Arch_SB]thpr: James?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: what's the plan?
      [Code_SB]James: Yes the plan was 1 week IIRC
      [Chair]Eddy: So Andrew just got that wrong
      [Code_SB]James: I don't expect there will be a lot of changes in each one
      [Code_SB]James: I think so - 2 weeks s the standard cycle time, but the RCs
      don't need that gap (at leats I don'
      [Code_SB]James: don't think so)
      [Chair]Eddy: I agree
      [Code_SB]James: But everyone else needs to be comfortable with that
      [Code_SB]James: The hope is to have the prod release out in a couple of
      weeks
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I say do 1 week gaps
      [Chair]Eddy: I second
      [Chair]Eddy: any objections?
      [Code_SB]James: none here
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Not from me.
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, lets do that then
      [Chair]Eddy: Eric, shall we do PR next?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Sure.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Paul completed the oustanding OGL reports since the last
      meeting.
      irc: jfrazierjr has joined pcgen
      [Chair]Eddy: Welcome Joe
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: TThere is no word yet on the GSL, though a post by WotC
      states it will be available onto everyone on June 6.
      [Chair]Eddy: I'm guessing at this point no one will see it until then
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Press releases went out for RC1 to all of the regular
      sites, and I've added CMP to the list.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Also, I sent out another press release for PCGen going to
      GenCon just after the last meeting.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Otherwise, theres nothing new for Advertising.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: The PL team has had no activity since the last meeting.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Thats all for m tonight, until we get to the GenCon Update.
      [Chair]Eddy: Thanks Eric, Tom any ARCH business?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: nope
      [Chair]Eddy: skip to Code then
      [Chair]Eddy: ?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: y
      [Code_SB]James: ok
      [Chair]Eddy: OK James, your up
      [Code_SB]James: Bugs: 17 fixed since last meeting. 4 remain, most of these
      can be moved to 5.14.1 or later. 1 requires some investigation
      [Code_SB]James: Features: 1 implemented since last meeting. No further freq
      work for 5.14 scheduled.
      [Code_SB]James: No movement on plugin bugs or features
      [Code_SB]James: So code is in a good position for release. My thanks to Joe
      and Tom for their help in this
      jfrazierjr: np
      [Code_SB]James: Also, the branch has been cut for the 5.14 release now, so
      the trunk is open to any changes again
      [Code_SB]James: Any questions?
      [Chair]Eddy: I've something of a question
      [Code_SB]James: Sure
      [Chair]Eddy: now that we have a branch how should we keep it updated?
      [Code_SB]James: Updated with what?
      [Chair]Eddy: I mean we did say we were going to pay closer attention to this
      one and expect the do a 5.14.1 right
      [Chair]Eddy: so if we fix bugs in the branch we need to fix them in the
      trunk too
      [Code_SB]James: Yes, the fix has to be copied back
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I've already done that with a few doc updates . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: that's all i meant, we need to pay close attention to that
      aspect
      [Chair]Eddy: Great Eric
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Hay, I was real proud that I figured out how to do a merge
      . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: :-)
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, that kind of leads into agenda item 1, 5.14 status
      [Code_SB]James: One other things first
      [Code_SB]James: sorry
      [Chair]Eddy: Your one up on me Eric, I haven;t figured that out, I just
      make the change twice :-(
      [Code_SB]James: I have just noted that 5 bugs were missed in the release
      notes due to Source Forge's advanced search not finding them. We'll have to
      monitor that and see if it catches up otherwise the release notes scripts
      are useless
      [Arch_SB]thpr: blech
      [Code_SB]James: Yeah
      [Arch_SB]thpr: are you using their XML export or something else?
      [Code_SB]James: No, their advanced search. My perl script requests the
      results and handles the pagoig and parsing of the html
      [Chair]Eddy: yikes, hopefully that was a fluke
      [Chair]Eddy: it would suck to go back to doing that by hand
      [Code_SB]James: I'll see if there is an outage notice and report it if not
      [Code_SB]James: Yeah I have to agree
      [Arch_SB]thpr: or we could look at using the XML exports
      [Arch_SB]thpr: as an alternative
      [Arch_SB]thpr: (assuming it doesn't fix itself)
      [Code_SB]James: Nah the xml export is too big and clunky IMO
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ok
      [Code_SB]James: It also requires an admin login
      [Arch_SB]thpr: point
      [Chair]Eddy: So for the RC's, is the plan to cut 2 more and hope that RC3
      will become the production release?
      [Code_SB]James: Yes one or two more depending on bug reports
      [Code_SB]James: Thus far we haven't had any on the RC
      [Code_SB]James: but the linux install issues do need attention
      [Chair]Eddy: Cool, anything else we need to discuss for 5.14 status?
      [Code_SB]James: Not from me
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'm setting up a HArdy VM
      [OGL]Nylanfs: ping?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: see if I can reproduce the problems folks are seeing
      [Code_SB]James: Thanks for that Tom
      [Code_SB]James: If nothing else we can point to your setup as an example of
      how to do it
      irc: Nylanfs has joined pcgen
      [Chair]Eddy: ok, agenda item 2.) Hyperlinks - shall we include links for all
      our included datasets
      [Chair]Eddy: Currently we are seeking permission to include cover art, logos
      and hyperlinks to e-commerce sites for the products we have datasets for.
      [Chair]Eddy: These hyperlinks can have an affiliate code in them which lets
      us receive a benefit from referals.
      [Chair]Eddy: I am proposing we put hyperlinks on all our datasets, but will
      only have affiliate links for publishers who have granted us permission to
      do so, all the rest will be straight links with no association to us.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I have no problem with that approach.
      Nylanfs: I agree with that. :)
      [Code_SB]James: Only hassle is why as a publisher would you give permission
      for us to get the affiliate benefit?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Several have already.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: A couple others gave us links to their affiliate pages.
      [Chair]Eddy: Some won't, but it's the control we give them in return for
      letting us make datasets
      [Code_SB]James: Fair enough
      [Chair]Eddy: Any objection?
      [Code_SB]James: I do think we should have a policy of only our own affiliate
      links though
      [Chair]Eddy: Why so?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I think the policy should be we use our link unles the
      publisher requests otherwise.
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I disagree
      [Arch_SB]thpr: well,
      [Arch_SB]thpr: maybe I am misinterpreting the statement
      [Arch_SB]thpr: we shouldn't be using our link if we get no response from a
      publisher
      [Code_SB]James: Ah, yes I agree there
      [Arch_SB]thpr: (I was responding to Maredudd)
      [Chair]Eddy: Correct, I'm proposing an unaffiliated link if we don't have
      specific permission from the publisher
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'm lukewarm on that still
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Let me rephrase my statement. If the publisher gives us
      permission to inlude a link, and if they do not request that we use their
      link, we use our link. How does that sound?
      [Code_SB]James: Right and if they say no you can't use your affiliate link,
      but here's ours?
      [Chair]Eddy: Crafty already has done that, and we accommodated them
      [Code_SB]James: ok
      [Chair]Eddy: Tom, Shall we shelve this tonight? would you post something to
      the BoD list regarding your luke warmness?
      [Code_SB]James: I've no idea what the volume will be, but I expect we'll get
      affiliate permission from a much smaller pool of publishers that way
      [Arch_SB]thpr: sure
      [Code_SB]James: Sounds good
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, I don't want to take more time away from the next item: 3.)
      Beyond 5.14 - raodmap, do we go to 5.16 or 6.0
      [Chair]Eddy: woot! new roadmap!
      [Code_SB]James: Yes, it's great isn't it!
      [Code_SB]James: I raised this one on the code list as our previosu plan was
      CDOM implementation
      [Chair]Eddy: it was James who suggested we go to 5.16 next and focus on
      supporting the new wave of systems coming out
      [Code_SB]James: and there are a couple fo hassles with that
      [Code_SB]James: First CDOm isn't as far advanced as scheduled
      [Code_SB]James: and second, yes the market is moving on a bit and we will no
      doubt have requests to support the new systems
      [Chair]Eddy: and that alone does tend to generate new activity in the
      project
      [Code_SB]James: Indeed
      irc: [OGL]Nylanfs has left pcgen
      [Code_SB]James: The support on the code list was unanimously for going for a
      5.16 release to allow implementation of 4e and pathfinder datasets easier,
      whether they are released by us or homebrew
      [Code_SB]James: Also raised was the integration of some of the existing CDOM
      work into 5.16
      irc: Nylanfs is now known as [OGL]Nylanfs
      [Arch_SB]thpr: exit
      [Arch_SB]thpr: doh, wrong window :D
      [Code_SB]James: and this led to the discussion of removing deprecated tokens
      and associated code from the trunk and thus 5.16
      [Code_SB]James: I see Tom has already enacted this, but it will mean that
      the docs for 5.14 will need to be updated to say "removed in 5.16" rather
      than "removed in 6.0"
      [Code_SB]James: I think in some cases, including many deprecation warnings
      it say "after 5.14" which will not need changing
      [Code_SB]James: Any thoughts, objections or suggestions here?
      [Chair]Eddy: Odd, why do the docs say when they are removed before they
      actually get removed
      cpmeister: How does my UI remodel fit into that picture?
      [Chair]Eddy: No objection from Content, I like the 5.16 plan
      [Code_SB]James: Sprry I think the docs say "to be removed in.." or something
      similar
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I was under the impression you were working in 5.16, Connor,
      assuming you get consensus on how to move forward with it
      cpmeister: I am, it will just take a lot of work
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: The docs say "Remove in 6.0"
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ls
      [Arch_SB]thpr: sorry, all
      [Arch_SB]thpr: too many windows
      [Code_SB]James: Connor, I think we will need more detail on both the scope
      of your UI remodel and the timeline of 5.16 to make defeinite decision, but
      yeah I think it would be nice to target it for 5.16 if it is feasible
      [Code_SB]James: Our UI does a lot but it isn't the most loved thing about
      the program :) I'm sure the idea of a remodel will be popular
      cpmeister: Well, the basic framework for the UI will be built on top of
      facades of the core.
      cpmeister: That alone will take a bit of work
      [Chair]Eddy: How about the time line? I know last year we planed 5.14 to be
      a shorter cycle but it ended up being about a year anyway.
      [Code_SB]James: Yeah
      irc: jfrazierjr has left pcgen
      [OGL]Nylanfs: Hmm, I'm goinng to have to get too bed. Early start tomorrow.
      [Code_SB]James: It was a lot longer than anticipated
      [Chair]Eddy: Night Paul
      irc: [OGL]Nylanfs has left pcgen
      cpmeister: Well, I estimate that coding the UI itself(not including the
      facades) should take about 3 months on my part
      cpmeister: Ideally durring my summer vacation when I have the time
      [Code_SB]James: Sounds good
      [Arch_SB]thpr: The token grafting work is incremental
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so even if 5.16 cuts off in the middle, nothing is hurt by it
      [Code_SB]James: I think this time round the timeline will be more important
      - it will be driven by release dates of the new rules and people's
      enthusiasm for those
      [Code_SB]James: Excellent
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I actually already have Weapon Profs done ;)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: all one token
      [Code_SB]James: I think that will be key - making sure we are not in the
      midst of a big change so we can draw a line at any stage
      [Code_SB]James: That may make your life harder though Connor :(
      [Code_SB]James: Excellent news Tom
      irc: BPIJonathan has joined pcgen
      cpmeister: perhaps
      BPIJonathan: Am I on time?
      [Chair]Eddy: HI Jonathan,, we started an hour ago :-)
      BPIJonathan: Time zone differences.
      [Code_SB]James: So, when should we aim to get 5.16 out do we think? 4e is
      out in early June IIRC, when is Pathfinder scheduled?
      BPIJonathan: I need an alarm clock for this silly meeting.
      [Chair]Eddy: Pathfinder is in a year long open playtest
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Pathfinder will bne relesed at Gen Con 09
      [Code_SB]James: Ah ok, so there is both no rush and already an existing
      demand eh :)
      [Chair]Eddy: We may be able to be more flexible now that we have the data
      installer so doing separate data releases is more practical
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Yep.
      [Code_SB]James: That's true
      [Code_SB]James: It also means that publshers can host data sets easier too,
      should they prefer that
      [Chair]Eddy: One of our first test cases may be Jonathan's project which
      won't be published until after we release 5.14
      BPIJonathan: Yes, would be a benefit
      [Code_SB]James: Cool!
      BPIJonathan: Well, I aim to give everyone a hard time. :-)
      [Chair]Eddy: he he
      [Code_SB]James: I'll post a helper ant script to build the installer zip. It
      needs to be specific to the data set but it should be a helpful start. I'll
      put it on exp
      [Code_SB]James: However, back to schedules, should we be aiming to have
      something out for the August date wehn 3rd part y publishers will stat
      releasing 4e material?
      [Chair]Eddy: wow, ambitious!
      cpmeister: I thought that the 4e license was still iffy?
      BPIJonathan: It is
      [Code_SB]James: Well, I don;t think the changes need to be too extensive
      [Chair]Eddy: I suppose that will depend on how different the mechanics for
      4e are (and how much code work it will take)
      [Code_SB]James: Yep
      BPIJonathan: They are suppose to have it final 6 June. Its making third
      party publishers anxious.
      BPIJonathan: They are different enough.
      [Chair]Eddy: and October is the start data for third party releases
      [Chair]Eddy: including us, if we can
      [Code_SB]James: Right, should we aim for October then?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: that's a really short window
      [Code_SB]James: I know
      [Code_SB]James: However overthe last 9 months or so we closed over 600
      issues - features and bugs combined
      [Code_SB]James: If we chose a smaller set we should be able to hit a smaller
      window
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I think that drives quite a schedule on Connor to start
      getting feedback
      cpmeister: indeed it does
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I think that will take a while, and it may delay the start
      [Chair]Eddy: We could be more organic, set the goal of 4e support and just
      keep pluggin away until they are done
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Well, I think we set October
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and Connor needs to show over the next - well - whatever time
      frame that it can work
      [Arch_SB]thpr: no start on his work after, say, July 1 or something on that
      order
      [Arch_SB]thpr: since he does have to deal with school again in Sept
      [Code_SB]James: There are pros and cons but I think we should try and set a
      date and a scope
      [Code_SB]James: Connor I assume that your summer hols will form a deadline
      of sorts for you anyway
      cpmeister: pretty much
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I agree, we just don't have to necessarily set it right now
      [Arch_SB]thpr: we can give Connor until the next BoD or something and make
      the UI an explicit agenda item
      [Arch_SB]thpr: or something like that
      [Code_SB]James: Absolutely Tom, I'm just getting the discussion started :)
      [Code_SB]James: Yeah that sounds good
      cpmeister: sounds fine
      [Chair]Eddy: Shall we move on to Gencon status? I'm going to skip Beyond
      5.14 Admin since we have no admin monkeys around
      [Code_SB]James: Connor I'm happy to help out with the proposal too
      [Code_SB]James: ok
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Before we move to Gen Con Status, did we settle on the move
      to 5.16 instead of 6.0?
      cpmeister: thanks :)
      [Chair]Eddy: lets do a quick vote
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: PR says yes to 5.16
      [Chair]Eddy: Go to 5.16 next for new game support, content votes yes
      [Arch_SB]thpr: arch yes
      [Code_SB]James: code yes
      [Chair]Eddy: we'll see if Andrew or Kar objects but I don't expect them to,
      motion passes
      [Chair]Eddy: So, Gencon, I guess I got to get designing now :-)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: :-)
      [Chair]Eddy: anything specific we need to discuss?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Complimentary badges. At least one of the individuals
      slated to get one already has one and won't need one.
      BPIJonathan: I had a question about redesigning the final character sheet,
      but cant remember what it was.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: That gives us one complimentary badge to place.
      [Chair]Eddy: check with who ever else volunteered
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: At this point, everyone who has volunteered has already
      made arraingements for badges.
      [Chair]Eddy: Well, I could take it and donate the cost into the pool
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Thats what I would suggest.
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, we just need to get the paypal situation resolved then
      [Chair]Eddy: anything else?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Nope.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: More in two weeks on other items.
      [Chair]Eddy: Open discussion then
      [Chair]Eddy: anyone have a topic they wish discussed?
      BPIJonathan: How bad is my book going to screw up the program?
      [Code_SB]James: :)
      [Chair]Eddy: well, haven't looked at the magic section yet so I can't say
      :-)
      [Code_SB]James: Eddy's already thrown me one bug as a result...
      [Chair]Eddy: yes, good timing, I do more testing coding a set than most
      other times, so i tend to find some odd stuff
      [Code_SB]James: Yep, works nicely
      BPIJonathan: So what happened in the code?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I have an early morning, so I think I'm off to sleep
      [Arch_SB]thpr: 'night all
      [Code_SB]James: cya Tom
      [Chair]Eddy: Night Tom
      BPIJonathan: night.
      cpmeister: night
      irc: [Arch_SB]thpr has left pcgen
      [Code_SB]James: Oh just an issue with bringing in stuff from multiple
      locations when there were duplicates
      [Code_SB]James: Fixed in RC1
      BPIJonathan: Ok
      [Chair]Eddy: Jonathan, I was importing data from 3 different sets and found
      a bug with the source info not carriing over
      [Chair]Eddy: When will your book hit the shelves?
      BPIJonathan: If luck holds, end of August.
      [Chair]Eddy: you going to Gencon?
      BPIJonathan: No. I made another commitment for the same week, not
      remembering the weekend of GenCon was that same weekend.
      [Chair]Eddy: ah well, maybe next year
      BPIJonathan: That is the plan
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, it's late and we're losing folks. Shall we call it a night?
      BPIJonathan: Ive already made plans to be there, without bells however. :-)
      [Code_SB]James: Yeah, seems about that time
      [Chair]Eddy: *bangs the gavel* Thanks for coming everyone!
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