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Re: [pcgen] Re: Approaches to trained/untrained skills

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  • Andrew Maitland
    We have PRECCSKILL and PRECSKILL that d I ve used. I was able to figure out a decent model for the SWSE, but thus far haven t attempted to tackle pathfinder
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 7, 2008
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      We have PRECCSKILL and PRECSKILL that'd I've used. I was able to figure
      out a decent model for the SWSE, but thus far haven't attempted to
      tackle pathfinder since we have several eager monkeys already on that

      Also, I think you can borrow the MODEL from MSRD, TYPE the skills with
      the Class that it's a Class skill. (TYPE is sooooo handy!!!)

      Eddy, if you send me a copy of the section you're trying to think up,
      I'll try and figure out a method. But I'm sure the above ideas have
      already gotten those wheels turning. :-)

      ~ Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      ~ Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
      ~ Data Gibbon, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Lemur
      "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"

      Eddy wrote:
      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "James Dempsey" <jdempsey@...> wrote:
      >> Hi,
      >> The concept of trained and untrained skills seems to be quite popular with
      >> game designers currently. Star Wars Saga Edition and Pathfinder have adopted
      >> this approach to skills, rather than the skill points based system in 3e and
      >> 3.5e.
      >> The general idea being that you are trained in a number of skills, which
      >> gives you a significant bonus to those skills, however you don't progress
      >> any faster in those skills than anyone else. Thus all characters get better
      >> at all skills as they level up, but some are always just a bit better than
      >> others, being the ones they know.
      >> PCGen is written around the concept of skills having points, with a page
      >> dedicated to allocating those points. Obviously that level f complexity
      >> isn't needed in this system. The question then becomes how to integrate a
      >> trained/untrained skill system into PCGen?
      >> A couple of possibilities are:
      >> 1. Use abilities to model the skills and run bonuses off them. So if your
      >> class gets 5 trained skills you get 5 choices for the 'class skill' ability
      >> and each of these will provide a bonus to a specific skill. The skills panel
      >> is then unused apart from viewing a breakdown of the skill benefit.
      >> 2. Use the skills tab to select skills - the class/cross-class skill concept
      >> is the same, but you can put a maximum of one point into each skill. Your 5
      >> trained skills could be done as getting 5 skill points at first level and
      >> none thereafter. A bonus would need to be coded to provide the appropriate
      >> trained bonus if it was not just 1. Provision happens to be available for
      >> names for the skill ranks rather than numbers, so you could code 0 as
      >> untrained and 1 as trained if that was desired.
      >> Personally I prefer the second approach - as it puts skills where it would
      >> be expected, particularly by experienced users of PCGen, but probably even
      >> those who are new to the tool. The code can already cope with having a cap
      >> of 1 rank (and 0 for cross-class) no matter the level and the bonus system
      >> should be able to handle a trained bonus of say 5 for the 1 rank.
      >> What do others think? Please do chime in even if you don't do LST or code -
      >> end users are after all why we have the program!
      >> PS: This could be seen as the province of the experimental or list file help
      >> lists, but I was more looking for general input on what approach people
      >> would prefer and why. I think we are highly likely to support Pathfinder and
      >> there should be no reason why 4e or SWSE support could not be coded at least
      >> on an individual/personal use basis by those interested in it.
      >> --
      >> Cheers,
      >> James Dempsey
      >> PCGen Code SB
      > Hi James
      > Great to see someone on the code team thinking about this. My preference is to adapt the
      > Skills tab to the new models. I've thought about how this could be modeled using ability
      > objects and it can to an extent but there are limitations I can't think of how to get past.
      > The main one is that Ability Objects would have no way to distinguish between class and
      > cross-class skills.
      > Something else to consider is that the models are not quite the same, in the SWSE game
      > the class skill list is what the player chooses his trained skill from but in Pathfinder you
      > can pick any skill to be trained in but you get a better bonus if it's a class skill.
      > I think using skill points as a skill pool would work fine as long as the point put in was not
      > used in the bonus calculation.

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