Re: [pcgen] Re: Approaches to trained/untrained skills
- We have PRECCSKILL and PRECSKILL that'd I've used. I was able to figure
out a decent model for the SWSE, but thus far haven't attempted to
tackle pathfinder since we have several eager monkeys already on that
Also, I think you can borrow the MODEL from MSRD, TYPE the skills with
the Class that it's a Class skill. (TYPE is sooooo handy!!!)
Eddy, if you send me a copy of the section you're trying to think up,
I'll try and figure out a method. But I'm sure the above ideas have
already gotten those wheels turning. :-)
~ Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
~ Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
~ Data Gibbon, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Lemur
"Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "James Dempsey" <jdempsey@...> wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> The concept of trained and untrained skills seems to be quite popular with
>> game designers currently. Star Wars Saga Edition and Pathfinder have adopted
>> this approach to skills, rather than the skill points based system in 3e and
>> The general idea being that you are trained in a number of skills, which
>> gives you a significant bonus to those skills, however you don't progress
>> any faster in those skills than anyone else. Thus all characters get better
>> at all skills as they level up, but some are always just a bit better than
>> others, being the ones they know.
>> PCGen is written around the concept of skills having points, with a page
>> dedicated to allocating those points. Obviously that level f complexity
>> isn't needed in this system. The question then becomes how to integrate a
>> trained/untrained skill system into PCGen?
>> A couple of possibilities are:
>> 1. Use abilities to model the skills and run bonuses off them. So if your
>> class gets 5 trained skills you get 5 choices for the 'class skill' ability
>> and each of these will provide a bonus to a specific skill. The skills panel
>> is then unused apart from viewing a breakdown of the skill benefit.
>> 2. Use the skills tab to select skills - the class/cross-class skill concept
>> is the same, but you can put a maximum of one point into each skill. Your 5
>> trained skills could be done as getting 5 skill points at first level and
>> none thereafter. A bonus would need to be coded to provide the appropriate
>> trained bonus if it was not just 1. Provision happens to be available for
>> names for the skill ranks rather than numbers, so you could code 0 as
>> untrained and 1 as trained if that was desired.
>> Personally I prefer the second approach - as it puts skills where it would
>> be expected, particularly by experienced users of PCGen, but probably even
>> those who are new to the tool. The code can already cope with having a cap
>> of 1 rank (and 0 for cross-class) no matter the level and the bonus system
>> should be able to handle a trained bonus of say 5 for the 1 rank.
>> What do others think? Please do chime in even if you don't do LST or code -
>> end users are after all why we have the program!
>> PS: This could be seen as the province of the experimental or list file help
>> lists, but I was more looking for general input on what approach people
>> would prefer and why. I think we are highly likely to support Pathfinder and
>> there should be no reason why 4e or SWSE support could not be coded at least
>> on an individual/personal use basis by those interested in it.
>> James Dempsey
>> PCGen Code SB
> Hi James
> Great to see someone on the code team thinking about this. My preference is to adapt the
> Skills tab to the new models. I've thought about how this could be modeled using ability
> objects and it can to an extent but there are limitations I can't think of how to get past.
> The main one is that Ability Objects would have no way to distinguish between class and
> cross-class skills.
> Something else to consider is that the models are not quite the same, in the SWSE game
> the class skill list is what the player chooses his trained skill from but in Pathfinder you
> can pick any skill to be trained in but you get a better bonus if it's a class skill.
> I think using skill points as a skill pool would work fine as long as the point put in was not
> used in the bonus calculation.