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Re: [pcgen] Re: [TM] Ability Category File

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  • Eric C Smith
    ... Trackered: [ 1904735 ] Clarify the ABILITYCATEGORY line POOL tag docs
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 29, 2008
      On Feb 29, 2008, at 9:54 AM, Eddy Anthony wrote:
      > joefrazierjr wrote:
      > >> I'm a bit confused as to whether there's
      > >> a bug here or not (sorry saw the [TM] heading) - K
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > > Data bug (if one does not already exist). The examples in
      > my_gamemode
      > > and my_dataset need to be updated to utilize the new structure since
      > > the ABILITYCATEGORY tags were removed from the miscinfo.lst file
      > a few
      > > months ago.
      > >
      >
      > Actually ABILITYCATEGORY is still valid in miscinfo.lst, the
      > feature was
      > expanded to allow the ability categories to be set in the data and
      > then
      > I moved most of them there.
      >
      > The error here is that there is a DEFINE tag in one of the my_gamemode
      > ABILITYCATEGORY lines, those lines are valid but the DEFINE is not.
      >
      > ABILITYCATEGORY lines have an optional tag POOL which lets you
      > specify a
      > variable which can be bonused to add to the pool, what I don't know is
      > if the variable used has to be DEFINEd somewhere else or if using
      > it in
      > POOL has the same effect as DEFINE.
      >
      > OK, just did a little test and that doesn't work. It appears that POOL
      > needs to have a valid variable (DEFINEd elsewhere) to function.
      >
      > So we need trackers for:
      >
      > DATA:
      > Remove the DEFINE tag from my_gamemode,
      > add an ability category data file example
      >
      > DOCS:
      > The POOL entry should be clear that the Variable must be valid and
      > POOL itself does not define it.
      > The entry says POOL determines the starting value, this seems a bit
      > misleading to me, the POOL VAR value is added to the pool at all times
      > (not just at the start whatever that means) so as the VAR changes so
      > does the pool.
      >

      Trackered: [ 1904735 ] Clarify the ABILITYCATEGORY line POOL tag docs

      <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?
      func=detail&aid=1904735&group_id=25576&atid=748234>

      >
      >
      > CODE FREQ
      > Might be nice to allow a DEFINE tag on ABILITYCATEGORY lines, not a
      > high priority though.
      >
      > --
      > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
      > ~ Chair Second, PCGen Board of Directors
      > ~ Data Content Second, Doc Chimp, OS Tamarin
      >
      >
      >
    • Martijn Verburg
      ... Trackered - https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1904746&group_id=25576&atid=750091 ... Trackered Code Freq for 6.0 - [1904748] Allow
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 29, 2008
        > > DATA:
        > > Remove the DEFINE tag from my_gamemode,
        > > add an ability category data file example

        Trackered -
        https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1904746&group_id=25576&atid=750091

        > > DOCS:
        > > The POOL entry should be clear that the Variable must be valid and
        > > POOL itself does not define it.
        > > The entry says POOL determines the starting value, this seems a
        > > bit misleading to me, the POOL VAR value is added to the pool at
        > > all times (not just at the start whatever that means) so as the
        > > VAR changes so does the pool.
        >
        > Trackered: [ 1904735 ] Clarify the ABILITYCATEGORY line POOL tag
        > docs
        >
        > <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?
        > func=detail&aid=1904735&group_id=25576&atid=748234>
        > >
        > > CODE FREQ
        > > Might be nice to allow a DEFINE tag on ABILITYCATEGORY lines, not
        > > a high priority though.

        Trackered Code Freq for 6.0 - [1904748] Allow DEFINE on ABILITYCATEGORY

        K
      • joefrazierjr
        ... was ... Ok, but at the very least, the Docs should be updated to remove all references to the one in miscinfo.lst to avoid end user confusion and point
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 29, 2008
          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...> wrote:
          >
          > joefrazierjr wrote:
          > >> I'm a bit confused as to whether there's
          > >> a bug here or not (sorry saw the [TM] heading) - K
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > > Data bug (if one does not already exist). The examples in my_gamemode
          > > and my_dataset need to be updated to utilize the new structure since
          > > the ABILITYCATEGORY tags were removed from the miscinfo.lst file a few
          > > months ago.
          > >
          >
          > Actually ABILITYCATEGORY is still valid in miscinfo.lst, the feature
          was
          > expanded to allow the ability categories to be set in the data and then
          > I moved most of them there.

          Ok, but at the very least, the Docs should be updated to remove all
          references to the one in miscinfo.lst to avoid end user confusion and
          point them to adding it to the correct files and referncing from a
          .pcc. IMO, we "should" remove them altogether from the gamemode as I
          can see cases where someone would modify one and begin having problems.
        • Andrew Maitland
          As one of the ones that set that up... DEFINE was placed in STATS IIRC - this was per Barak s instructions for those looking to make their own Skill Tricks for
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 29, 2008
            As one of the ones that set that up...

            DEFINE was placed in STATS IIRC - this was per Barak's instructions for
            those looking to make their own Skill Tricks for homebrews or those that
            owned the actual source. It works just fine last I checked. You have a
            define and a variable in the pool and it works too. Remember the
            my_dataset was setup modeled after the ST dealio. It sounds like the
            my_dataset was being used without ALL the necessary components.
            Remember, the gamemode example isn't located in the correct place,
            otherwise IT WOULD CAUSE PCGEN NOT TO LOAD CORRECTLY. The reasoning for
            gamemode stat file is that it will ALWAYS be loaded. And whomever
            pointed out this was before breaking out the abilitycategories to it's
            own lst file was correct.

            I'm going to head to bed, but if anyone needs me to confirm it's working
            in the 5.13 series, let me know and I'll try and hit it before I head to
            work.

            Martijn Verburg wrote:
            >>> DATA:
            >>> Remove the DEFINE tag from my_gamemode,
            >>> add an ability category data file example
            >>>
            >
            > Trackered -
            > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1904746&group_id=25576&atid=750091
            >
            >
            >>> DOCS:
            >>> The POOL entry should be clear that the Variable must be valid and
            >>> POOL itself does not define it.
            >>> The entry says POOL determines the starting value, this seems a
            >>> bit misleading to me, the POOL VAR value is added to the pool at
            >>> all times (not just at the start whatever that means) so as the
            >>> VAR changes so does the pool.
            >>>
            >> Trackered: [ 1904735 ] Clarify the ABILITYCATEGORY line POOL tag
            >> docs
            >>
            >> <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?
            >> func=detail&aid=1904735&group_id=25576&atid=748234>
            >>
            >>> CODE FREQ
            >>> Might be nice to allow a DEFINE tag on ABILITYCATEGORY lines, not
            >>> a high priority though.
            >>>
            >
            > Trackered Code Freq for 6.0 - [1904748] Allow DEFINE on ABILITYCATEGORY
            >
            > K
            >
            >
            >
            > PCGen's Release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            > PCGen's Wiki: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/
            > PCGen's Roadmap: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/Roadmap
            > PCGen's Alpha Build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/
            > PCGen's Data Help Grp: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            ~ Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
            ~ Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
            ~ Data Gibbon, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Lemur
            "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Eric C Smith
            Hi Joe! ... As long as the capability to do ABILITYCATEGORY lines in the miscinfo file is allowed, we will need to maintain that info in the docs. If you have
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 29, 2008
              Hi Joe!

              On Feb 29, 2008, at 1:05 PM, joefrazierjr wrote:
              > > Actually ABILITYCATEGORY is still valid in miscinfo.lst, the feature
              > was
              > > expanded to allow the ability categories to be set in the data
              > and then
              > > I moved most of them there.
              >
              > Ok, but at the very least, the Docs should be updated to remove all
              > references to the one in miscinfo.lst to avoid end user confusion and
              > point them to adding it to the correct files and referncing from a
              > .pcc. IMO, we "should" remove them altogether from the gamemode as I
              > can see cases where someone would modify one and begin having
              > problems.
              >
              As long as the capability to do ABILITYCATEGORY lines in the miscinfo
              file is allowed, we will need to maintain that info in the docs. If
              you have suggestions as to how to improve the docs, please let me
              know and I'll attend to it . . .

              One thing I can think of is to add a statement somewhere that an
              ability needs to be defined by an ABILITYCATEGORY line in only one
              file, i.e. the miscinfo.lst file or a loaded dataset
              abilitycategory.lst file, but not both. I'll have to check to see if
              its already there o not . . .

              Eric Smith
              Doc 2nd
            • Barak
              ... Removed? As in, no longer work there? I don t think that s correct... I think they can be in the game mode now *or* in the dataset. Barak
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 29, 2008
                > -----Original Message-----
                > Data bug (if one does not already exist). The examples in my_gamemode
                > and my_dataset need to be updated to utilize the new structure since
                > the ABILITYCATEGORY tags were removed from the miscinfo.lst file a few
                > months ago.

                Removed? As in, no longer work there? I don't think that's correct...

                I think they can be in the game mode now *or* in the dataset.

                Barak
              • Barak
                ... Are you really sure Eddy? In my skill trick setup here (5.12.1) all I ve used is the POOL tag to give the name (no numbers), and then used
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 29, 2008
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > OK, just did a little test and that doesn't work. It appears that POOL
                  > needs to have a valid variable (DEFINEd elsewhere) to function.

                  Are you really sure Eddy?

                  In my skill trick setup here (5.12.1) all I've used is the POOL tag to give
                  the name (no numbers), and then used BONUS:ABILITYPOOL and referenced the
                  ability category name, not even the POOL name. I get the appropriate points
                  in the pool and everything seems to work fine.

                  So I guess my question, beyond are you sure, is, what the heck is POOL for
                  anyway???

                  Barak
                • Eddy Anthony
                  ... Yes, I m sure. Pool is optional. If you have a var there it s value is added to the pool. BONUS:ABILITYPOOL will add to the pool but not that variable.
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 29, 2008
                    Barak wrote:
                    >> -----Original Message-----
                    >> OK, just did a little test and that doesn't work. It appears that POOL
                    >> needs to have a valid variable (DEFINEd elsewhere) to function.
                    >>
                    >
                    > Are you really sure Eddy?
                    >
                    > In my skill trick setup here (5.12.1) all I've used is the POOL tag to give
                    > the name (no numbers), and then used BONUS:ABILITYPOOL and referenced the
                    > ability category name, not even the POOL name. I get the appropriate points
                    > in the pool and everything seems to work fine.
                    >
                    > So I guess my question, beyond are you sure, is, what the heck is POOL for
                    > anyway???
                    >
                    > Barak
                    >

                    Yes, I'm sure. Pool is optional. If you have a var there it's value is
                    added to the pool. BONUS:ABILITYPOOL will add to the pool but not that
                    variable. With a VAR in POOL that just means you can also adjust the
                    pool with BONUS:VAR as well.

                    It's a convenient option, we already had a var in place for the favored
                    enemy feature so that just got plugged in via POOL.

                    --
                    ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                    ~ Chair Second, PCGen Board of Directors
                    ~ Data Content Second, Doc Chimp, OS Tamarin
                  • Eric C Smith
                    Hi Chris! ... You are correct. Ability Categories can be defines in either the miscinfo file OR in the datasets abilitycategory file. Eric
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 29, 2008
                      Hi Chris!

                      On Feb 29, 2008, at 4:45 PM, Barak wrote:
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > Data bug (if one does not already exist). The examples in
                      > my_gamemode
                      > > and my_dataset need to be updated to utilize the new structure since
                      > > the ABILITYCATEGORY tags were removed from the miscinfo.lst file
                      > a few
                      > > months ago.
                      >
                      > Removed? As in, no longer work there? I don't think that's correct...
                      >
                      > I think they can be in the game mode now *or* in the dataset.
                      >
                      You are correct. Ability Categories can be defines in either the
                      miscinfo file OR in the datasets abilitycategory file.

                      Eric
                    • Barak
                      ... Ah! Got it. Thanks. Barak
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 29, 2008
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > Yes, I'm sure. Pool is optional. If you have a var there it's value is
                        > added to the pool. BONUS:ABILITYPOOL will add to the pool but not that
                        > variable. With a VAR in POOL that just means you can also adjust the
                        > pool with BONUS:VAR as well.

                        Ah! Got it. Thanks.

                        Barak
                      • Andrew Maitland
                        Yes, they can can be in both. ... -- ~ Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) ~ Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors ~ Data Gibbon, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Lemur
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 29, 2008
                          Yes, they can can be in both.

                          Eric C Smith wrote:
                          > Hi Chris!
                          >
                          > On Feb 29, 2008, at 4:45 PM, Barak wrote:
                          >
                          >>> -----Original Message-----
                          >>> Data bug (if one does not already exist). The examples in
                          >>>
                          >> my_gamemode
                          >>
                          >>> and my_dataset need to be updated to utilize the new structure since
                          >>> the ABILITYCATEGORY tags were removed from the miscinfo.lst file
                          >>>
                          >> a few
                          >>
                          >>> months ago.
                          >>>
                          >> Removed? As in, no longer work there? I don't think that's correct...
                          >>
                          >> I think they can be in the game mode now *or* in the dataset.
                          >>
                          >>
                          > You are correct. Ability Categories can be defines in either the
                          > miscinfo file OR in the datasets abilitycategory file.
                          >
                          > Eric
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > PCGen's Release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                          > PCGen's Wiki: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/
                          > PCGen's Roadmap: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/Roadmap
                          > PCGen's Alpha Build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                          > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/
                          > PCGen's Data Help Grp: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          --
                          ~ Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                          ~ Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                          ~ Data Gibbon, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Lemur
                          "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Terry FitzSimons
                          Which is the preferred method? Currently the Docs only have the following: Ability categories are defined, one per line, as per the ABILITYCATEGORY line
                          Message 12 of 25 , Mar 1, 2008
                            Which is the preferred method? Currently the Docs only have the following:

                            "Ability categories are defined, one per line, as per the ABILITYCATEGORY
                            line described in the miscinfo.lst file documentation."

                            Or what should be DEFINED in the miscinfo.lst file and what should be
                            DEFINED in datasets abilitycategory file, or does it really matter that
                            much?

                            Judging from the ABILITYCATEGORY:x lists some things that are in the
                            miscinfo.lst file it seems to deal with the GUI. Should the miscinfo.lst
                            file be limited to just the Gamemode data and the dataset abilitycategory
                            file build off that?

                            Or just use "Ability categories are defined, one per line, as per the
                            ABILITYCATEGORY line described in the miscinfo.lst file documentation.
                            Ability Categories can be defines in either the miscinfo.lst file AND/OR in
                            the datasets abilitycategory.lst file."

                            Terry

                            On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:31:48 -0500, Eric C Smith <maredudd@...>
                            wrote:

                            >Hi Chris!
                            >
                            >On Feb 29, 2008, at 4:45 PM, Barak wrote:
                            >> > -----Original Message-----
                            >> > Data bug (if one does not already exist). The examples in
                            >> my_gamemode
                            >> > and my_dataset need to be updated to utilize the new structure since
                            >> > the ABILITYCATEGORY tags were removed from the miscinfo.lst file
                            >> a few
                            >> > months ago.
                            >>
                            >> Removed? As in, no longer work there? I don't think that's correct...
                            >>
                            >> I think they can be in the game mode now *or* in the dataset.
                            >>
                            >You are correct. Ability Categories can be defines in either the
                            >miscinfo file OR in the datasets abilitycategory file.
                            >
                            >Eric
                            --

                            Terry FitzSimons
                            FITZSIMONS@...(Small Letters Only)

                            Data Lemur, Docs Gibbon
                          • Eric C Smith
                            Hi Terry and Company! ... The opening statement in the Ability Category File Tag Docs Page now reads: Ability Categories can be defined in either the active
                            Message 13 of 25 , Mar 1, 2008
                              Hi Terry and Company!

                              On Mar 1, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Terry FitzSimons wrote:
                              > Which is the preferred method? Currently the Docs only have the
                              > following:
                              >
                              > "Ability categories are defined, one per line, as per the
                              > ABILITYCATEGORY
                              > line described in the miscinfo.lst file documentation."
                              >
                              > Or what should be DEFINED in the miscinfo.lst file and what should be
                              > DEFINED in datasets abilitycategory file, or does it really matter
                              > that
                              > much?
                              >
                              > Judging from the ABILITYCATEGORY:x lists some things that are in the
                              > miscinfo.lst file it seems to deal with the GUI. Should the
                              > miscinfo.lst
                              > file be limited to just the Gamemode data and the dataset
                              > abilitycategory
                              > file build off that?
                              >
                              > Or just use "Ability categories are defined, one per line, as per the
                              > ABILITYCATEGORY line described in the miscinfo.lst file documentation.
                              > Ability Categories can be defines in either the miscinfo.lst file
                              > AND/OR in
                              > the datasets abilitycategory.lst file."
                              >

                              The opening statement in the Ability Category File Tag Docs Page now
                              reads:

                              "Ability Categories can be defined in either the active GameMode's
                              miscinfo.lst file or in a loaded dataset's abilitycategory.lst file,
                              with each ability category being defined in one or the other, but not
                              both. Ability categories are defined, one per line, as per the
                              ABILITYCATEGORY tag documentation in the miscinfo.lst file
                              documentation."

                              Eric Smith
                              Doc 2nd
                            • Barak
                              ... This. Note the removal of the AND. It s in one place or the other, it cannot be in both. Barak
                              Message 14 of 25 , Mar 1, 2008
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > Or just use "Ability categories are defined, one per line, as per the
                                > ABILITYCATEGORY line described in the miscinfo.lst file documentation.
                                > Ability Categories can be defines in either the miscinfo.lst file
                                > OR in the datasets abilitycategory.lst file."

                                This. Note the removal of the AND.

                                It's in one place or the other, it cannot be in both.

                                Barak
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