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Re: Working on a Custom Equipment bug, need input.

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  • taluroniscandar
    ... There is (or was) a long standing problem with putting things into the customequipment.lst file (activated by a preference checkbox). It s centered around
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 11, 2008
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      > I'm actually curious here - if one creates custom equipment in MSRD
      > and RSRD, do things go majorly wrong as far as mangling items with
      > every load/save? or is it at least separated by Game Mode?


      There is (or was) a long standing problem with putting things into
      the customequipment.lst file (activated by a preference checkbox).

      It's centered around Campaigns more so than Gamemode.

      In my group I have setup multiple 'campaign' loader pcc files. We all
      play in rsrd but each dm has "I allow this book but not that one'
      choices. So I have on master pcc file for each DM/campaign. The pcc
      files load 95% of the same sub pcc files and then a couple of pcc
      files specific to that campaign; each dm has his own houserules,
      special magic items and 3rd party supplements that are allowed.

      The problem with the customequipment file comes in when you have a
      custom item made with an eqmod from campaign 1 that doesn't exist in
      campaign 2. When you load up campaign 2 (to work on that character)
      the customequipment file is completely rewritten when you close that
      character (any and every character AFAIK). Any non-existant eqmods
      are stripped off. The custom equipment is then broken when you load
      campaign 1.

      Dealing with 4 dms and multiple campaigns I have seen this ALOT. I
      finally just stopped using the customequip.lst file at all. It was to
      frustrating to keep 'fixing' the custom entries.

      There is no identifier in the customequip lst file that say "this
      campaign/sources loaded" or "this character".
    • Tom Parker
      ... That was kinda my point - such an identifier is necessary to avoid the problem; otherwise we end up hacking more and more workarounds to the issue. TP.
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 11, 2008
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        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "taluroniscandar" <mhgj@...> wrote:
        > There is no identifier in the customequip lst file that say "this
        > campaign/sources loaded" or "this character".

        That was kinda my point - such an identifier is necessary to avoid the
        problem; otherwise we end up hacking more and more workarounds to the
        issue.

        TP.
      • taluroniscandar
        ... Mm-hm. Why I finally just turned the custom eq file off and store custom equipment only in the pcg files now. This problem is very old (VERY) and was one
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 11, 2008
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          > > There is no identifier in the customequip lst file that say "this
          > > campaign/sources loaded" or "this character".
          >
          > That was kinda my point - such an identifier is necessary to avoid the
          > problem; otherwise we end up hacking more and more workarounds to the
          > issue.

          Mm-hm.

          Why I finally just turned the custom eq file off and store custom
          equipment only in the pcg files now.

          This problem is very old (VERY) and was one of those things set aside
          to fix when the editors were fixed (although I'm not sure it's listed
          at SF or in the docs). The gamemode issue was fixed during one round of
          editor updates but the same-gamemode different-sources problem wasn't.
          Admitted, there were (and still are) far more important issues and this
          has a very simple work around - turn off the custom equipment file.
        • Martijn Verburg
          Hi all, ... OK, what I m going to do is investigate Tom s suggestion of simply not loading the custom equipment if it s not supported by the loaded data sets.
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
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            Hi all,

            > > > There is no identifier in the customequip lst file that say
            > > > "this campaign/sources loaded" or "this character".
            > >
            > > That was kinda my point - such an identifier is necessary to
            > > avoid the problem; otherwise we end up hacking more and more
            > > workarounds to the issue.
            >
            > Mm-hm.
            >
            > Why I finally just turned the custom eq file off and store custom
            > equipment only in the pcg files now.
            >
            > This problem is very old (VERY) and was one of those things set
            > aside to fix when the editors were fixed (although I'm not sure
            > it's listed at SF or in the docs). The gamemode issue was fixed
            > during one round of editor updates but the same-gamemode different-
            > sources problem wasn't. Admitted, there were (and still are) far
            > more important issues and this has a very simple work around - turn
            > off the custom equipment file.

            OK, what I'm going to do is investigate Tom's suggestion of simply not
            loading the custom equipment if it's not supported by the loaded data
            sets. I'll post any findings in the tracker - K
          • Andrew Wilson
            ... Hmm, isn t that just going to result in delting all those items when we rewrite the file and don t write them out? andrew
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
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              On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 08:39:38AM -0000, Martijn Verburg wrote:
              > Hi all,
              >> Why I finally just turned the custom eq file off and store custom
              >> equipment only in the pcg files now.
              >>
              >> This problem is very old (VERY) and was one of those things set
              >> aside to fix when the editors were fixed (although I'm not sure
              >> it's listed at SF or in the docs). The gamemode issue was fixed
              >> during one round of editor updates but the same-gamemode different-
              >> sources problem wasn't. Admitted, there were (and still are) far
              >> more important issues and this has a very simple work around - turn
              >> off the custom equipment file.
              >
              > OK, what I'm going to do is investigate Tom's suggestion of simply not
              > loading the custom equipment if it's not supported by the loaded data
              > sets. I'll post any findings in the tracker - K

              Hmm, isn't that just going to result in delting all those items when we
              rewrite the file and don't write them out?

              andrew
            • Martijn Verburg
              ... Yeah, that s my thought as well, I m investigating if that will be the case. We might be alright due to the order of how things are loaded (loading is
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
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                > > OK, what I'm going to do is investigate Tom's suggestion of simply
                > > not loading the custom equipment if it's not supported by the
                > > loaded data sets. I'll post any findings in the tracker - K
                >
                > Hmm, isn't that just going to result in delting all those items when
                > we rewrite the file and don't write them out?

                Yeah, that's my thought as well, I'm investigating if that will be the
                case. We might be alright due to the order of how things are loaded
                (loading is separated from adding to the equipment list as far as I
                can tell). I'm hoping to prove it either way today, if it does
                'delete' the item then we'll have to think of something new. - K
              • taluroniscandar
                ... simply ... when ... Check the pcg file first. You may find that the custom eq is saved there also. If not, then open the appropriate character (with proper
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
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                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Martijn Verburg" <martijnverburg@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > > > OK, what I'm going to do is investigate Tom's suggestion of
                  simply
                  > > > not loading the custom equipment if it's not supported by the
                  > > > loaded data sets. I'll post any findings in the tracker - K
                  > >
                  > > Hmm, isn't that just going to result in delting all those items
                  when
                  > > we rewrite the file and don't write them out?
                  >
                  > Yeah, that's my thought as well, I'm investigating if that will be the
                  > case. We might be alright due to the order of how things are loaded
                  > (loading is separated from adding to the equipment list as far as I
                  > can tell). I'm hoping to prove it either way today, if it does
                  > 'delete' the item then we'll have to think of something new. - K
                  >

                  Check the pcg file first. You may find that the custom eq is saved
                  there also.
                  If not, then open the appropriate character (with proper sources
                  loaded), turn off custom eq file in pref and resave the char.

                  That should put the equipment in the char (pcg) file.
                • Andrew Wilson
                  ... Deleteing objects that we can t find references for from custom items is what s causing the problem. Instead of deleting the objects, we could mark the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
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                    On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 12:45:59PM -0000, Martijn Verburg wrote:
                    > > > OK, what I'm going to do is investigate Tom's suggestion of simply
                    > > > not loading the custom equipment if it's not supported by the
                    > > > loaded data sets. I'll post any findings in the tracker - K
                    > >
                    > > Hmm, isn't that just going to result in delting all those items when
                    > > we rewrite the file and don't write them out?
                    >
                    > Yeah, that's my thought as well, I'm investigating if that will be the
                    > case. We might be alright due to the order of how things are loaded
                    > (loading is separated from adding to the equipment list as far as I
                    > can tell). I'm hoping to prove it either way today, if it does
                    > 'delete' the item then we'll have to think of something new. - K

                    Deleteing objects that we can't find references for from custom items is
                    what's causing the problem. Instead of deleting the objects, we could
                    mark the custom items they're attached to as broken and put them in
                    different storage from normal items. Then we could have a pane on the
                    GUI that lets us see "broken items" with a button beside each to fix it
                    (i.e. delete the reference like we currently do) and add it to the
                    equipment list. Anything not "fixed" should just be written out again
                    "as is" when we rewrite the custom data. That gives the ability to deal
                    with changed data, and data that just isn't currently loaded should just
                    work when we do load the correct set(s).

                    Really flash would be to open the item customiser for it and let us
                    replace the broken thing with something else.

                    Just my 2d.

                    andrew
                  • taluroniscandar
                    ... That would make the item, er, um, odd, yes, odd when you loaded the campaign and sources that it was actually created in. Hey, my +1 Kitbash sword is now
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
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                      > Really flash would be to open the item customiser for it and let us
                      > replace the broken thing with something else.
                      >
                      > Just my 2d.
                      >
                      > andrew
                      >
                      That would make the item, er, um, odd, yes, odd when you loaded the
                      campaign and sources that it was actually created in.

                      "Hey, my +1 Kitbash sword is now a +1 vorpal. COOOLLLL!"
                    • Martijn Verburg
                      Hi all, ... As this will require much thought and a spec, I ve moved this to be a 6.0 FREQ. Again we can only hope that CDOM makes this easier :) - K
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
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                        Hi all,

                        > > Really flash would be to open the item customiser for it and let us
                        > > replace the broken thing with something else.
                        > >
                        > > Just my 2d.
                        > >
                        > > andrew
                        > >
                        > That would make the item, er, um, odd, yes, odd when you loaded the
                        > campaign and sources that it was actually created in.
                        >
                        > "Hey, my +1 Kitbash sword is now a +1 vorpal. COOOLLLL!"

                        As this will require much thought and a spec, I've moved this to be a
                        6.0 FREQ. Again we can only hope that CDOM makes this easier :) - K
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