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Re: Working on a Custom Equipment bug, need input.

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  • Tom Parker
    ... My 2c, below ... Create a Longsword +1, *dependent upon Core Rules I & II* ... This (seeing the Longsword +1) should fail - the item should never have been
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 11, 2008
      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Martijn Verburg" <martijnverburg@...>
      wrote:
      > I'm lookign at bug: 1754872 - custom equipment mods get deleted

      My 2c, below

      > Summary of problem repeated below:
      >
      > 1. Set preference to save custom equipment to customEquipment.lst
      > 2. Load RSRD Core Rules I & II
      > 3. Create a Longsword +1

      Create a Longsword +1, *dependent upon Core Rules I & II*

      > 3a. Note the price of the Longsword +1 is 2315 gp
      > 4. Exit PCGen
      > 4a. Note the EQMOD:PLUS1W.STEEL tag for the Longsword +1 entry in
      > customEquipment.lst
      > 5. Restart PCGen
      > 6. Load RSRD Core Rules I
      > 6a. Note the price of the Longsword +1 is 15 gp

      This (seeing the Longsword +1) should fail - the item should never
      have been loaded and made available to the user. It should be queued
      into a text string for direct rewrite to the custom equipment file, as
      it effectively has PRECAMPAIGN:2,Core Rules I,Core Rules II (not that
      we have that token, but you get the idea)

      > 7. Exit PCGen
      > 7a. Note the EQMOD:STEEL tag for the Longsword +1 entry in
      > customEquipment.lst

      > 6a is understandable, I mean if we have no reference PLUS1W then PCGen
      > has no way of understanding that an extra 2300 should be added to the
      > price.

      > 7a appears to be the real problem, basically the PLUS1W has been taken
      > away entirely!

      I feel the problem really manifests in 6, when the custom equipment is
      loaded after the Campaign Load, and allows invalid items to be
      displayed... IMHO, 6a is actually where the root cause of the problem
      occurs. The Longsword +1 has a CAMPAIGN dependency on Core Rules I &
      II, and thus cannot be properly loaded with just Core Rules I. It
      should not load.

      > Question:
      > ---------
      >
      > Was this (7a) desired behaviour for a reason or should we try and fix
      > it so that the custom equipment item is left alone?

      I'm actually curious here - if one creates custom equipment in MSRD
      and RSRD, do things go majorly wrong as far as mangling items with
      every load/save? or is it at least separated by Game Mode?

      TP.
    • James Dempsey
      Hi, ... Custom equipment is separated by game mode now. We used to have that problem, but not anymore. -- Cheers, James Dempsey PCGen Code SB [Non-text
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 11, 2008
        Hi,

        On 12/02/2008, Tom Parker <thpr@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > I'm actually curious here - if one creates custom equipment in MSRD
        > and RSRD, do things go majorly wrong as far as mangling items with
        > every load/save? or is it at least separated by Game Mode?


        Custom equipment is separated by game mode now. We used to have that
        problem, but not anymore.

        --
        Cheers,
        James Dempsey
        PCGen Code SB


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • taluroniscandar
        ... There is (or was) a long standing problem with putting things into the customequipment.lst file (activated by a preference checkbox). It s centered around
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 11, 2008
          > I'm actually curious here - if one creates custom equipment in MSRD
          > and RSRD, do things go majorly wrong as far as mangling items with
          > every load/save? or is it at least separated by Game Mode?


          There is (or was) a long standing problem with putting things into
          the customequipment.lst file (activated by a preference checkbox).

          It's centered around Campaigns more so than Gamemode.

          In my group I have setup multiple 'campaign' loader pcc files. We all
          play in rsrd but each dm has "I allow this book but not that one'
          choices. So I have on master pcc file for each DM/campaign. The pcc
          files load 95% of the same sub pcc files and then a couple of pcc
          files specific to that campaign; each dm has his own houserules,
          special magic items and 3rd party supplements that are allowed.

          The problem with the customequipment file comes in when you have a
          custom item made with an eqmod from campaign 1 that doesn't exist in
          campaign 2. When you load up campaign 2 (to work on that character)
          the customequipment file is completely rewritten when you close that
          character (any and every character AFAIK). Any non-existant eqmods
          are stripped off. The custom equipment is then broken when you load
          campaign 1.

          Dealing with 4 dms and multiple campaigns I have seen this ALOT. I
          finally just stopped using the customequip.lst file at all. It was to
          frustrating to keep 'fixing' the custom entries.

          There is no identifier in the customequip lst file that say "this
          campaign/sources loaded" or "this character".
        • Tom Parker
          ... That was kinda my point - such an identifier is necessary to avoid the problem; otherwise we end up hacking more and more workarounds to the issue. TP.
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 11, 2008
            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "taluroniscandar" <mhgj@...> wrote:
            > There is no identifier in the customequip lst file that say "this
            > campaign/sources loaded" or "this character".

            That was kinda my point - such an identifier is necessary to avoid the
            problem; otherwise we end up hacking more and more workarounds to the
            issue.

            TP.
          • taluroniscandar
            ... Mm-hm. Why I finally just turned the custom eq file off and store custom equipment only in the pcg files now. This problem is very old (VERY) and was one
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 11, 2008
              > > There is no identifier in the customequip lst file that say "this
              > > campaign/sources loaded" or "this character".
              >
              > That was kinda my point - such an identifier is necessary to avoid the
              > problem; otherwise we end up hacking more and more workarounds to the
              > issue.

              Mm-hm.

              Why I finally just turned the custom eq file off and store custom
              equipment only in the pcg files now.

              This problem is very old (VERY) and was one of those things set aside
              to fix when the editors were fixed (although I'm not sure it's listed
              at SF or in the docs). The gamemode issue was fixed during one round of
              editor updates but the same-gamemode different-sources problem wasn't.
              Admitted, there were (and still are) far more important issues and this
              has a very simple work around - turn off the custom equipment file.
            • Martijn Verburg
              Hi all, ... OK, what I m going to do is investigate Tom s suggestion of simply not loading the custom equipment if it s not supported by the loaded data sets.
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
                Hi all,

                > > > There is no identifier in the customequip lst file that say
                > > > "this campaign/sources loaded" or "this character".
                > >
                > > That was kinda my point - such an identifier is necessary to
                > > avoid the problem; otherwise we end up hacking more and more
                > > workarounds to the issue.
                >
                > Mm-hm.
                >
                > Why I finally just turned the custom eq file off and store custom
                > equipment only in the pcg files now.
                >
                > This problem is very old (VERY) and was one of those things set
                > aside to fix when the editors were fixed (although I'm not sure
                > it's listed at SF or in the docs). The gamemode issue was fixed
                > during one round of editor updates but the same-gamemode different-
                > sources problem wasn't. Admitted, there were (and still are) far
                > more important issues and this has a very simple work around - turn
                > off the custom equipment file.

                OK, what I'm going to do is investigate Tom's suggestion of simply not
                loading the custom equipment if it's not supported by the loaded data
                sets. I'll post any findings in the tracker - K
              • Andrew Wilson
                ... Hmm, isn t that just going to result in delting all those items when we rewrite the file and don t write them out? andrew
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
                  On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 08:39:38AM -0000, Martijn Verburg wrote:
                  > Hi all,
                  >> Why I finally just turned the custom eq file off and store custom
                  >> equipment only in the pcg files now.
                  >>
                  >> This problem is very old (VERY) and was one of those things set
                  >> aside to fix when the editors were fixed (although I'm not sure
                  >> it's listed at SF or in the docs). The gamemode issue was fixed
                  >> during one round of editor updates but the same-gamemode different-
                  >> sources problem wasn't. Admitted, there were (and still are) far
                  >> more important issues and this has a very simple work around - turn
                  >> off the custom equipment file.
                  >
                  > OK, what I'm going to do is investigate Tom's suggestion of simply not
                  > loading the custom equipment if it's not supported by the loaded data
                  > sets. I'll post any findings in the tracker - K

                  Hmm, isn't that just going to result in delting all those items when we
                  rewrite the file and don't write them out?

                  andrew
                • Martijn Verburg
                  ... Yeah, that s my thought as well, I m investigating if that will be the case. We might be alright due to the order of how things are loaded (loading is
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
                    > > OK, what I'm going to do is investigate Tom's suggestion of simply
                    > > not loading the custom equipment if it's not supported by the
                    > > loaded data sets. I'll post any findings in the tracker - K
                    >
                    > Hmm, isn't that just going to result in delting all those items when
                    > we rewrite the file and don't write them out?

                    Yeah, that's my thought as well, I'm investigating if that will be the
                    case. We might be alright due to the order of how things are loaded
                    (loading is separated from adding to the equipment list as far as I
                    can tell). I'm hoping to prove it either way today, if it does
                    'delete' the item then we'll have to think of something new. - K
                  • taluroniscandar
                    ... simply ... when ... Check the pcg file first. You may find that the custom eq is saved there also. If not, then open the appropriate character (with proper
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Martijn Verburg" <martijnverburg@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > > > OK, what I'm going to do is investigate Tom's suggestion of
                      simply
                      > > > not loading the custom equipment if it's not supported by the
                      > > > loaded data sets. I'll post any findings in the tracker - K
                      > >
                      > > Hmm, isn't that just going to result in delting all those items
                      when
                      > > we rewrite the file and don't write them out?
                      >
                      > Yeah, that's my thought as well, I'm investigating if that will be the
                      > case. We might be alright due to the order of how things are loaded
                      > (loading is separated from adding to the equipment list as far as I
                      > can tell). I'm hoping to prove it either way today, if it does
                      > 'delete' the item then we'll have to think of something new. - K
                      >

                      Check the pcg file first. You may find that the custom eq is saved
                      there also.
                      If not, then open the appropriate character (with proper sources
                      loaded), turn off custom eq file in pref and resave the char.

                      That should put the equipment in the char (pcg) file.
                    • Andrew Wilson
                      ... Deleteing objects that we can t find references for from custom items is what s causing the problem. Instead of deleting the objects, we could mark the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
                        On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 12:45:59PM -0000, Martijn Verburg wrote:
                        > > > OK, what I'm going to do is investigate Tom's suggestion of simply
                        > > > not loading the custom equipment if it's not supported by the
                        > > > loaded data sets. I'll post any findings in the tracker - K
                        > >
                        > > Hmm, isn't that just going to result in delting all those items when
                        > > we rewrite the file and don't write them out?
                        >
                        > Yeah, that's my thought as well, I'm investigating if that will be the
                        > case. We might be alright due to the order of how things are loaded
                        > (loading is separated from adding to the equipment list as far as I
                        > can tell). I'm hoping to prove it either way today, if it does
                        > 'delete' the item then we'll have to think of something new. - K

                        Deleteing objects that we can't find references for from custom items is
                        what's causing the problem. Instead of deleting the objects, we could
                        mark the custom items they're attached to as broken and put them in
                        different storage from normal items. Then we could have a pane on the
                        GUI that lets us see "broken items" with a button beside each to fix it
                        (i.e. delete the reference like we currently do) and add it to the
                        equipment list. Anything not "fixed" should just be written out again
                        "as is" when we rewrite the custom data. That gives the ability to deal
                        with changed data, and data that just isn't currently loaded should just
                        work when we do load the correct set(s).

                        Really flash would be to open the item customiser for it and let us
                        replace the broken thing with something else.

                        Just my 2d.

                        andrew
                      • taluroniscandar
                        ... That would make the item, er, um, odd, yes, odd when you loaded the campaign and sources that it was actually created in. Hey, my +1 Kitbash sword is now
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
                          > Really flash would be to open the item customiser for it and let us
                          > replace the broken thing with something else.
                          >
                          > Just my 2d.
                          >
                          > andrew
                          >
                          That would make the item, er, um, odd, yes, odd when you loaded the
                          campaign and sources that it was actually created in.

                          "Hey, my +1 Kitbash sword is now a +1 vorpal. COOOLLLL!"
                        • Martijn Verburg
                          Hi all, ... As this will require much thought and a spec, I ve moved this to be a 6.0 FREQ. Again we can only hope that CDOM makes this easier :) - K
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 12, 2008
                            Hi all,

                            > > Really flash would be to open the item customiser for it and let us
                            > > replace the broken thing with something else.
                            > >
                            > > Just my 2d.
                            > >
                            > > andrew
                            > >
                            > That would make the item, er, um, odd, yes, odd when you loaded the
                            > campaign and sources that it was actually created in.
                            >
                            > "Hey, my +1 Kitbash sword is now a +1 vorpal. COOOLLLL!"

                            As this will require much thought and a spec, I've moved this to be a
                            6.0 FREQ. Again we can only hope that CDOM makes this easier :) - K
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