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BoD Log 1/21/08

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  • Eddy Anthony
    [Chair]Eddy: Welcome everyone, I ve got 9pm, let s begin [Chair]Eddy: Andrew will not be here, it s his birthday or something ;-) [Chair]Eddy: I ll start with
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 21, 2008
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      [Chair]Eddy: Welcome everyone, I've got 9pm, let's begin
      [Chair]Eddy: Andrew will not be here, it's his birthday or something ;-)
      [Chair]Eddy: I'll start with the Content Report
      [Chair]Eddy: Documentation
      [Chair]Eddy: Doc Bugs: 2 for 5.12 (3 total)
      [Chair]Eddy: Doc FREQs: 7 for 5.14 (34 total)
      [Chair]Eddy: Output Sheets
      [Chair]Eddy: OS Bugs: 5 for 5.14 (8 total)
      [Chair]Eddy: OS FREQs: 16 for 5.14 (36 total)
      [Chair]Eddy: Data
      [Chair]Eddy: Data Bugs: 6 for 5.14 (33 Total)
      [Chair]Eddy: Data FREQs: 5 for 5.14 (62 Total)
      [Chair]Eddy: We seem to have added more content trackers than we closes
      since last meeting but I think that is mostly due code work going in
      requiring data changes.
      [Chair]Eddy: Since Tom completed many of the CHOOSE work I've been able to
      do cleanup work on the core data and have reduced the console messages in
      the SRD/and RSRD down to a couple which will be resolved once the SELECT for
      CHOOSE code goes in
      [Chair]Eddy: The MSRD still has some work to be done as the console messages
      have highlighted a feature which needs to be reworked (AUTO:EQUIP on level
      lines).
      [Chair]Eddy: I don't forsee that work being much of a problem and we'll soon
      have all the core data loading without error
      [Chair]Eddy: Next step is to start doing this to all the rest of the sets
      irc: [Code_SB]jdempse has left pcgen
      [Chair]Eddy: Andrew can't make it tonight, he sent me his report which I'll
      repost here for the record
      [Chair]Eddy: Admin Report
      [Chair]Eddy: Trackers - 2nd is David "Papa" Bender
      [Chair]Eddy: Some are moving, some aren't. (Quid pro quo) - [individual
      teams give reports here]
      [Chair]Eddy: Nothing too exciting to talk about here; since the other teams
      will elaborate on their respective trackers
      [Chair]Eddy: Though lack of Chimp participation in the last two polls is
      troubling.
      irc: [Code_SB]jdempse has joined pcgen
      [Chair]Eddy: --
      [Chair]Eddy: Release - 2nd is James Dempsey
      [Chair]Eddy: James will be doing the release Monday/Tuesday (5.13.8). I'll
      try and get an updated release notes out before the release.
      [Chair]Eddy: --
      [Chair]Eddy: Website - 2nd is Anestis
      [Code_SB]jdempse: wed night aus time
      [Chair]Eddy: Stalled, no progress I can see. I've sent a message (cc'd you)
      to Anestis letting him know he can do whatever is necessary to get the ball
      rolling.
      [Chair]Eddy: The email also let him know you and some others would like to
      try to get time to "meet" with him and some of the other website project
      team.
      [Chair]Eddy: I've spoken with Stefan, svn doesn't sound feasible with the
      drupal module as the stuff sounds like it is stored in a MySQL database.
      [Chair]Eddy: Kar is getting married, but afterwards will be able to dedicate
      the time and effort to help with the project.
      [Chair]Eddy: --
      [Chair]Eddy: Admin in General:
      [Chair]Eddy: Over-quota emails from Sourceforge. Who handles that and what
      are we doing to handle the issue?
      [Chair]Eddy: Reminder to Silverbacks to promote those monkeys under them who
      are putting forth effort in their specific areas.

      [Chair]Eddy: Recruitment - I saw someone comment and successfully wrangle an
      OS to do what they wanted... We need OS monkeys and this person was able to
      figure it out.... *Hint, Hint* (He even posted the code)
      [Chair]Eddy: Eddy and Eric represent the Chair and PR - would be good to
      approach the guy and ask.
      [Chair]Eddy: PR - Eric, can you send a personal note to Jonathan and let him
      know we made the deadline we set for ourselves to include Sherwood in the
      next release. (Good job - that was truly a team effort)
      [Chair]Eddy: End Admin report from Andrew
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Since it was brought up...
      [Chair]Eddy: Cn we address the overquota issue?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Should we be concerned over the lack of voting on the last
      two _experimental votes?
      [Code_SB]jdempse: @Eddy - yes I can do that
      [Chair]Eddy: Thanks
      [Chair]Eddy: What is happeneing that causes that?
      [Chair]Eddy: I see it go by every now and again
      [Chair]Eddy: Tom, not one those two votes. There was agreement on those
      issues in the thread
      [Chair]Eddy: I almost didn't put it to a vote because of that
      [Code_SB]jdempse: We don't have a lot of space and the autobuilds change
      name every release leaving behind old verisons. Once these fill up our space
      we get an email. We have some other stuff that could be removed but Devon
      owns that and I can't delete it
      [Chair]Eddy: but I am a little concerned that we've lost some data chimps to
      RL
      [Chair]Eddy: Any questions for content?
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Would there be anyone who could be promoted to data chimp?
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Maybe something to consider after the meeting
      [Chair]Eddy: Yeah, Andrew M is a good candidate for that eventually
      [Chair]Eddy: Who wants to go next?
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Happy to do code
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, you're on
      [Code_SB]jdempse: 3 bugs closed this fortnight, 30 to go for 5.14
      [Code_SB]jdempse: 3 features completed this fortnight, 3 to go for 5.14
      [Arch_SB]thpr: 5 FREQs with the two _experimental votes, actually
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Note that we have asked Barak to see if there is anything
      he needs for 5.14 as it is unlikely that 6.0 will be out in time for CMP to
      use for their files
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Good point
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: When are we looking to release 6.0?
      [Code_SB]jdempse: So this has meant that we will delay beta until we have
      the list from Barak and decided what is feasible
      [Arch_SB]thpr: He was given Jan 31 as his deadline to identify features he
      wanted
      [Arch_SB]thpr: 6.0 will be a while - not committing a date at this point
      [Code_SB]jdempse: late this year early next year would be the earliest I
      would think Anestis
      [Code_SB]jdempse: We had a new code monkey join yesterday - Conner Petty and
      he has already made his first fix
      [Code_SB]jdempse: I think that's all of the news on the code front - any
      questions?
      [Chair]Eddy: No here, congrats on the new guy
      [Chair]Eddy: Eric, are you ready for PR?
      [Chair]Eddy: hmm, maybe he's AFK
      [Chair]Eddy: Tom, can you go next?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: sure
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Well, as James already mentioned, we have only a few items
      left for 5.14
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the two vote items are kinda arch driven for 5.14 cleanup
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I spent some heavy work on the 6.0 tokens over the last two
      weeks - it's almost completely clean in loading 5.14 based data
      [Arch_SB]thpr: And it's pretty good at well-structured and non-ambiguous
      5.12 data
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I have started looking at the new FREQs that were done since
      the roadmap I created a while back
      [Arch_SB]thpr: So those will get added to the outlook list on the Wiki once
      I finish categorizing those
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Next major project is getting small code projects identified
      and listed somewhere - I'd like to defer that discussion to the open forum,
      if I could, as I have a few thoughts
      [Chair]Eddy: k
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Oh, wanted to thank James for putting in a jar into the CDOM
      branch for the compatibility checker to avoid the long command line :)
      [Code_SB]jdempse: np
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Oh, I also created the high level steps for transition to the
      CDOM branch, and I need to get that post onto the Wiki to replace the
      current CDOM page
      [Arch_SB]thpr: That's the update. Any questions?
      [Code_SB]jdempse: None from me
      [Chair]Eddy: You did want to talk about the compatibility checker as an
      agenda item right?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: yes
      [Arch_SB]thpr: after reports, though, I assume
      [Chair]Eddy: if Eric doesn't respond we can go to that next
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Sorry for being away . . . The spousal unit had a few
      questions that needed answering . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: completely understand :-)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: PR is easy tonight . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: PR you're up then
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Publisher contact this last two weeks was limited to BP . .
      . and the team effort for Sherwood has already been mentioned . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Same for OGL . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: As for advertising, awe hit a half dozen sites with nes of
      the 5.13.78 release . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Thats all for tonight as far as reports go . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: 5.13.7 . . . sticky buttons . . . :-)
      [Chair]Eddy: :-) Thanks Eric
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: np
      [Chair]Eddy: shall we go to agenda item 1: the compatibility checker
      [Arch_SB]thpr: okay, I just wanted to validate thoughts on shipment of the
      checker
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Since it effectively requires the full CDOM branch (code
      wise) it's pretty big (a few meg)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: It also uses the tokens, and we probably don't want
      individual non-5.13/5.14 tokens running around - that will be very confusing
      [Arch_SB]thpr: So I think it needs to be packaged in a single JAR
      [Arch_SB]thpr: And get it's own download location on the SF site
      [Chair]Eddy: in this form will it have a GUI?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: It doesn't today, but that's pretty easy to add
      [Arch_SB]thpr: It's really only a picklist for PCC files
      [Arch_SB]thpr: So, the intent would be to have one before it gets onto the
      SF download list
      [Arch_SB]thpr: The CDOM branch would need a special mod to not load tokens
      from separate plugins, as part of that
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Was wondering about that. MInd you the unit tests run with
      the tokens inline
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I think the best way to do it is to still treat them like
      tokens, but to have them only loaded from the "parent jar"
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Should be doable
      [Arch_SB]thpr: a simple flag could be propagated into the token loading code
      [Arch_SB]thpr: to identify which set of code (PCGen vs. Compatibility) was
      being run
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Something to think about as well, is do we ship this with
      5.14
      [Arch_SB]thpr: There is a size impact with that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so it may be "no"
      [Arch_SB]thpr: at the same time, we should get this broad coverage to
      homebrew folks to avoid surprises
      [Code_SB]jdempse: I'd think a separate download would be more suitable
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: What is the magnitude of the siZe impact?
      [Chair]Eddy: I'm a little behind, what exactly is it's function? does it
      generate a report? convert LST code?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: today it generates a report
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the idea, come 6.0 release, is to do a convert and produce
      6.0 syntax PCC and LST files
      [Arch_SB]thpr: It does a number of things, some of which are syntax related,
      e.g. catching double pipes (||)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: some of the items are catching unconstructed references
      (that's how I caught the Meticulos error)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: The purpose of it is to ensure that a file that is designed
      to be 5.14 compatible is actually clean for 6.0
      [Arch_SB]thpr: There are some subtle differences in parsing (generally a lot
      more error checking capability in 6.0), so the goal is to have all
      well-formed 5.14 files import into 6.0
      [Arch_SB]thpr: this ensures that a file is "well-formed"
      [Arch_SB]thpr: that explain it?
      [Chair]Eddy: yup, thanks
      [Code_SB]jdempse: So the intent for shipping is to have all of the errors
      listed be ones that the user needs to deal with then?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: exactly
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: If we don't deliver it with 5.14, what do you feel would be
      the most likely time frame for its delivery?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: It will be delivered with 5.14
      [Chair]Eddy: sounds like some of the crosschecking features prettylst can do
      [Chair]Eddy: good to get that into something easier to use
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Yea, but it uses the actual token parsing code, so it's
      "known" to work
      [Arch_SB]thpr: perhaps someday prettylst can go back to making things pretty
      and not have to be so complex
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ok, I think that's settled
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ?
      [Chair]Eddy: What did we decide? ship it separately?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: yes
      [Arch_SB]thpr: without "floating" tokens, with a GUI before it goes onto SF
      [Chair]Eddy: it will be integrated into 6.0?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: uhh, it is 6.0
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so yea
      [Chair]Eddy: he he, OK
      [Arch_SB]thpr: It's literally running the LST import and showing the parsing
      messages - that's how much additional checking is done in 6.0
      [Chair]Eddy: Great, you mentioned getting small code projects identified and
      listed somewhere?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: okay, that was my other topic
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Once I get the major steps on the Wiki, there are specific
      code items associated with each of those that can be listed
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'm curious on people's thoughts of setting up another
      Tracker listing just for CDOM...
      [Code_SB]jdempse: I'd be happy with that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I was thinking of putting the high level items (18-25 or so)
      into FREQs, and then having subfreqs so to speak
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I just don't want to pollute the normal FREQ list, since it
      would be nice to get really granular
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so we can get lots of people involved, even if it's for small
      periods of time
      [Chair]Eddy: sounds good to me
      [Arch_SB]thpr: okay, I just wanted to check on other's thoughts
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Since James hooked me up with Project Admin status, I can set
      that up when I'm ready
      [Arch_SB]thpr: this coming weekend is my twice-yearly gaming weekend, so
      I'll probably dump in a lump of items the weekend of Feb 2
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ... and I'll also list somewhere the priority translations,
      so people can pick stuff that is (or isn't) time critical depending on their
      availability
      [Arch_SB]thpr: that's it on that one... easy questions, I guess ;)
      [Chair]Eddy: Cool, anyone else have anything for open discussion?
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: I wanted to talk about the website
      [Chair]Eddy: OK,
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: After a brief bout of interest from people in Cotober,
      things got kinda quiet in November. I can understand, with the holidays
      coming up
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: I tried to get some interest happening again, but there
      wasn't much response
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Do we have any projects specified other than the
      forums<->e-mail thing?
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: One potential project is to move the current PCGen website
      on SF to the PCGen test-site
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so there was getting a wiki working as part of that
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: There was too, but there are questions I have about that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ok
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: Will this be a user only based wiki (mainly geared towards
      users of PCGen), or do we include and expand the wiki from SF?
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Next step as I'd see it would be to get the PCGen look and
      feel configured and to add a content page or two explaining what the site is
      about
      [Arch_SB]thpr: We'd like to fold in what is on SourceForge
      [Arch_SB]thpr: have everything in one place
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and a friendlier wiki than the SF thing
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: So there would be a user side and a development side
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Yeah - a number of people mhavce hassles accessing it
      [Code_SB]jdempse: yes
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Anestis: yes
      [Code_SB]jdempse: gotta go as lunch is over - I'll catch up with the rest
      via logs
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I agree with James on the next step, but I think we should
      also respond to the team with some "dynamic content" projects - I suspect
      that real items will keep interest up
      [Arch_SB]thpr: later, James
      [Chair]Eddy: bye James
      [Arch_SB]thpr: sorry, meant "such items will keep interest up"
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: "dynamic content as in"? News items? Current progress?
      Which convention the PCGen team will be at next?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Tose all sound good . . .
      [Arch_SB]thpr: well, more like "create a search system that tells me any
      weapon that provides me Foo as a Spell Effect"
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and list the items and the sources they came from
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: ohhhh
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: wouldn't we need separate permission from publish to put
      that kind of information on the website?
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: *publishers
      [Arch_SB]thpr: well, presumably we'd only be searching our datasets
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Tom: Thats the way I see it . ..
      [Arch_SB]thpr: but it's a lot faster than loading and looking, and more
      convenient than grep
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: How will the info be indexed?
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: I know there was talk, at one stage, of putting a version
      of PCGen on the website directly, however, I'm kind of skeptical
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Yea, putting PCGen on their directly would be a trick
      [Arch_SB]thpr: *there
      [Arch_SB]thpr: not sure we're up to that yet
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I think we'd index it using the 6.0 code base in some way
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: That would be something for the web code-monkeys to knock
      their heads over
      [Arch_SB]thpr: we'd have to have a discussion about how we could either
      output some form of index or actually have the web site run java code to
      perform the query
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I think both of those questions should generate some
      discussion, and you may get the boring work out of folks while they are
      tackling the hard problems
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: However, first thing is to get a PCGen website running,
      then we tweak in additional features
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: That's why we have a test-site, I presume
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Yes
      [Arch_SB]thpr: But I think that having the vision of bigger things we are
      trying to do will help drive completing the prerequisite/simple stuff
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: So the basic functionality we are looking for is to
      implement the PCGen Website Look and Feel as well as the Forum/Mailing list?
      irc: Fitzs has joined pcgen
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Hi Fitz!
      [Arch_SB]thpr: yes, that's the foundation
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: the forum/mail list kind of works now
      [Arch_SB]thpr: is it more than one forum?
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: I still have reservations on the look and feel of the
      forum
      [Arch_SB]thpr: we should get two running and ensure we can mail into both
      without things getting cross-contaminated
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: If anyone wants to take a look at it as it is now, head on
      to http://www.pcgen-test.org/
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: I any case...
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: in
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: It's something I have to think about over the next few
      days, and this next week and a bit is busy, as I will be at a roleplaying
      convention this weekend.
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: I do have James' phone number somewhere, so I can always
      call him up and bounce ideas off him
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: Unless anyone has any other comments, that's all on this
      issue
      [Arch_SB]thpr: not from me
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: In any case, if anyone has any ideas for the website team,
      feel free to let the website team know
      [Chair]Eddy: I'm good. I've been meaning to get over to the site and post
      about doing graphics
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: Well, I was thinking down the track, having tutorials,
      with screenshots. Not just on how to use PCGen (step by step), but also how
      to create your own classes, kits, PCG files, etc etc
      [Chair]Eddy: What would be really cool is screen casts, I've seen other
      software groups demo thier stuff that way
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: We could move the current lst file classes and Rules
      Implementation Guides over . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: What is the plan for the repository? Are we moving it to
      the webite?
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: But as I said, that's soemthing for down the track
      [Chair]Eddy: Yeah, any content we already have is fair game to repurpose in
      some other way
      [Arch_SB]thpr: repository?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: meaning subversion>
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: svn . . .
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'd want to wait on that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: one of the last things to consider moving
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: But its planned for a move eventually?
      [Chair]Eddy: and the tracker system
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I wouldn't say either is planned
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Thats what I thought . . . .That means the docs will move
      there eventually . . .
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I would say we've investigated what we could do with Trackers
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and I still think JIRA is the best solution there, since it
      can do the dependency work
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and subversion is a candidate
      [Chair]Eddy: SF does provide a huge amount of service for free, hard to
      duplicate that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: requires a lot more consideration to move that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Eddy: Yea, hard to pass up the subversion repository, esp.
      since we have 4K+ commits there
      [Chair]Eddy: well we did it before when we moved from CVS
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Hey Anestis, does the existing web site have support for
      java?
      [Chair]Eddy: but you it would need to be compelling
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: Existing meaning the one on the SF site?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Eddy: Yea, and also done on a version transition
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Anestis: meaning pcgen-test
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: Honestly, I don't know. You would have to ask the person
      who set the site up
      [Chair]Eddy: agreed, don't really see a need now, I'm quite happy with the
      svn we've got now
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ok, I'll ping Kar
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: There is something else I wanted to ask
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: How big in size is the current PCGen release to download,
      including all the data sets?
      [Chair]Eddy: 27mb?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: something on that order
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: That is fairly big
      [Arch_SB]thpr: yea, we don't want to be providing the download service from
      our website
      [Arch_SB]thpr: we'd die of bandwidth cost
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: Has there been consideration given to releasing a basic
      PCGen package, only having 3.0/3.5 and Modern?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I don't think data is the volume issue
      [Arch_SB]thpr: is it?
      [Chair]Eddy: no
      Fitzs: 25,256kb for the zip
      [Chair]Eddy: I must fess up
      [Chair]Eddy: I'm guilty of some bloat
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Eddy: I'm totally unsure if that's in context or designed as
      a joke on your own waistline
      [Chair]Eddy: that Fantasy Character Sheet with the graphics probably added a
      coulple of megs
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ah
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ;)
      [Chair]Eddy: LOL
      [Chair]Eddy: the waist could use some reduction too
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: It's just I was thinking we could offer a basic download
      package, just PCgen with 3.0/3.5/Modern, and have available for downlaod any
      other extra datasets people might want
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: With the data set installation feature James added, that
      would work . . .
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Better 'press' for the content owners to ship it all at once
      [Chair]Eddy: Yeah, that does open up some possibilities there
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Given that data isn't driving the volume, I'm not sure why
      we'd hold back
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I'll agree with that . . . :-)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: The better press part . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: I'd say all the data should stay
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: As I said, it was just a thought
      [Chair]Eddy: extra stuff like my bloat sheet could be done separatly
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Eddy: Interesting point, we should probably FREQ being able
      to download plugins and OS as well as new data
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Anestis: Good idea to be thinking about the size - we
      probably can make a smaller package to ship
      [Chair]Eddy: The installer handles that just fine now, it just gives a
      message if the item is outside the data folder
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I was referring more to having a menu in PCGen that says
      "fetch more output sheets online"
      [Chair]Eddy: ah yes
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and putting big or obscure ones on the site
      [Chair]Eddy: I'm all for that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: could do the same with plugins
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Actually that's another web site idea
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: How much does GMGen add to PCGen?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: let people upload output sheets
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and then produce a snapshot/sample of what they look like
      [Arch_SB]thpr: and give others the ability to download them
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Anestis: probably not much, but the challenge there is that
      it's not a true plugin
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: ahhh
      [Arch_SB]thpr: There are core dependencies on GMGen
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Will those core dependancies hold in 6.0?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: (the issue is that the Plugin System is based on the GMGen
      Bus, which is part of GMGen, so without GMGen, no plugins)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Maybe
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: So GMGEN is a core capability that is released with the
      rest of the program . . .
      [Arch_SB]thpr: that code needs to be restructured, and the Bus is a large
      candidate to be moved out of the GMGen package and back into core
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Other plugins can be added as the user requires/desires
      tham . ..
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so the function won't change, but the GMGen core may get a
      bit lighter and the core a bit heavier - just reorganization
      [Arch_SB]thpr: something like that, yes
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Cool . ..
      [Web_2nd]Anestis: Anyway, that's all from me. Next! :-/
      [Chair]Eddy: anyone else got a topic?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: No tonight . . . Next time . . . :-)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: no, but I have a 5 1/2 hour drive early tomorrow, so I'm
      going to run
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: After some discussion on the BoD list . ..
      [Chair]Eddy: lets call it a night then
    • Terry FitzSimons
      I wonder if its possible to run up a code that someone could download to monitor their use of PcGen for the purpose of figuring out five or six stripped down
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 24, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        I wonder if its possible to run up a code that someone could download to
        monitor their use of PcGen for the purpose of figuring out five or six
        stripped down versions (3e (With and Without Some or All Datasets), 35e
        (W\Wout Datasets), Deadlands, Legends_of_Excalibur, Modern (W\Wout
        Datasets), Sidewinder, Spycraft, Xcrawl (W\Wout Datasets)) that could
        become the standard available downloads on the web site with the full
        package still available on Sourceforge.

        Web Site location for those that are interested in viewing:
        http://www.pcgen-test.org/

        On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:42:40 -0500, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...>
        wrote:
        Been trimmed to the area being questioned
        ......
        >[Web_2nd]Anestis: There is something else I wanted to ask
        >[Web_2nd]Anestis: How big in size is the current PCGen release to download,
        >including all the data sets?
        >[Chair]Eddy: 27mb?
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: something on that order
        >[Web_2nd]Anestis: That is fairly big
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: yea, we don't want to be providing the download service from
        >our website
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: we'd die of bandwidth cost
        >[Web_2nd]Anestis: Has there been consideration given to releasing a basic
        >PCGen package, only having 3.0/3.5 and Modern?
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: I don't think data is the volume issue
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: is it?
        >[Chair]Eddy: no
        >Fitzs: 25,256kb for the zip
        >[Chair]Eddy: I must fess up
        >[Chair]Eddy: I'm guilty of some bloat
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: Eddy: I'm totally unsure if that's in context or designed as
        >a joke on your own waistline
        >[Chair]Eddy: that Fantasy Character Sheet with the graphics probably added a
        >coulple of megs
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: ah
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: ;)
        >[Chair]Eddy: LOL
        >[Chair]Eddy: the waist could use some reduction too
        >[Web_2nd]Anestis: It's just I was thinking we could offer a basic download
        >package, just PCgen with 3.0/3.5/Modern, and have available for downlaod any
        >other extra datasets people might want
        >[PR_SB]Maredudd: With the data set installation feature James added, that
        >would work . . .
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: Better 'press' for the content owners to ship it all at once
        >[Chair]Eddy: Yeah, that does open up some possibilities there
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: Given that data isn't driving the volume, I'm not sure why
        >we'd hold back
        >[PR_SB]Maredudd: I'll agree with that . . . :-)
        >[PR_SB]Maredudd: The better press part . . .
        >[Chair]Eddy: I'd say all the data should stay
        >[Web_2nd]Anestis: As I said, it was just a thought
        >[Chair]Eddy: extra stuff like my bloat sheet could be done separatly
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: Eddy: Interesting point, we should probably FREQ being able
        >to download plugins and OS as well as new data
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: Anestis: Good idea to be thinking about the size - we
        >probably can make a smaller package to ship
        >[Chair]Eddy: The installer handles that just fine now, it just gives a
        >message if the item is outside the data folder
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: I was referring more to having a menu in PCGen that says
        >"fetch more output sheets online"
        >[Chair]Eddy: ah yes
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: and putting big or obscure ones on the site
        >[Chair]Eddy: I'm all for that
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: could do the same with plugins
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: Actually that's another web site idea
        >[Web_2nd]Anestis: How much does GMGen add to PCGen?
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: let people upload output sheets
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: and then produce a snapshot/sample of what they look like
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: and give others the ability to download them
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: Anestis: probably not much, but the challenge there is that
        >it's not a true plugin
        >[Web_2nd]Anestis: ahhh
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: There are core dependencies on GMGen
        >[PR_SB]Maredudd: Will those core dependancies hold in 6.0?
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: (the issue is that the Plugin System is based on the GMGen
        >Bus, which is part of GMGen, so without GMGen, no plugins)
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: Maybe
        >[PR_SB]Maredudd: So GMGEN is a core capability that is released with the
        >rest of the program . . .
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: that code needs to be restructured, and the Bus is a large
        >candidate to be moved out of the GMGen package and back into core
        >[PR_SB]Maredudd: Other plugins can be added as the user requires/desires
        >tham . ..
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: so the function won't change, but the GMGen core may get a
        >bit lighter and the core a bit heavier - just reorganization
        >[Arch_SB]thpr: something like that, yes
        >[PR_SB]Maredudd: Cool . ..
        >[Web_2nd]Anestis: Anyway, that's all from me. Next! :-/
        >[Chair]Eddy: anyone else got a topic?
        >[PR_SB]Maredudd: No tonight . . . Next time . . . :-)
        --

        Terry FitzSimons
        FITZSIMONS@...(Small Letters Only)

        Data Lemur, Docs Gibbon
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