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BoD log 1/7/08

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  • Eddy Anthony
    [Chair]Eddy: OK I have 9pm *bangs the banana gavel* [Arch_SB]thpr: I m on the phone, will be just a minute, just don t make me first, please [Chair]Eddy: no
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 7, 2008
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      [Chair]Eddy: OK I have 9pm *bangs the banana gavel*
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'm on the phone, will be just a minute, just don't make me
      first, please
      [Chair]Eddy: no problem
      [Chair]Eddy: I'll go first
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: First up... Tim
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: tom
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: hehehe
      [Chair]Eddy: also, James said he'd be late, might be as late as 10
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, content
      [Chair]Eddy: Documentation
      [Chair]Eddy: Doc Bugs: 3 for 5.12 (4 total)
      [Chair]Eddy: Doc FREQs: 6 for 5.14 (32 total)
      [Chair]Eddy: Doc trackers should not normally effect the decision to go beta
      [Chair]Eddy: and the Doc team can make commits on up the the final release
      since there is no dependencies involved
      [Chair]Eddy: Eric and others have been doing a great job and I've no worries
      that the Docs will be in good shape for 5.14
      [Chair]Eddy: I'm doing my bit to get the screen shots up to date
      [Chair]Eddy: Output Sheets
      [Chair]Eddy: OS Bugs: 4 total, these are all minor bugs which will probably
      be defered past 5.14
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Has anyone looked at the NPCGen and Treasure Gen docs?
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I saw the commits, but haven't looked at them myself.
      [Chair]Eddy: Yeah, briefly, like what I saw. We can get into details in a
      bit
      [Chair]Eddy: OS FREQs: 15 for 5.14 (36 total)
      [Chair]Eddy: Many of these trackers are luxury items that can be defered
      past 5.14 but we have a couple I'd consider essential:
      [Chair]Eddy: [1830849] [PDF] New blocks for Salient Divine Abilities
      [Chair]Eddy: [1830847] [PDF] New blocks for Special Attacks & Special
      Qualities
      [Chair]Eddy: I don't have the know how to work on these and Chuck does not
      have time right now.
      [Chair]Eddy: I'm going to put out a general call to the list to see if we
      can find a volunteer to help just with this feature.
      [Chair]Eddy: Data
      [Chair]Eddy: Data Bugs: 2 for 5.14 (29 Total)
      [Chair]Eddy: Data FREQs: 6 for 5.14 (57 Total)
      [Chair]Eddy: I want to thank Tom for opening data trackers for the changes
      need for his code changes, makes things much easier to keep track of
      [Chair]Eddy: We still have a bit to do but I don't forsee any major hurdles
      in the way
      [Chair]Eddy: However we are awaiting some code work needed to close some of
      these trackers.
      [Chair]Eddy: We'll need the code FREQ: [1849571] New Class tag:
      ALLOWBASECLASS:x (currently unassigned)
      [Chair]Eddy: in order to close data FREQ: [1844598] Subclass fix up - same
      as Substitution
      [Chair]Eddy: We're also waiting on the resolution of several issues with the
      CHOOSE tags
      [Chair]Eddy: Currently the majority of the console messages concern CHOOSE
      [Chair]Eddy: while some of these can be addressed others can't because the
      code has not been finalilized
      [Chair]Eddy: and it sometimes difficult to tell what is and what is not
      actionable
      [Chair]Eddy: Once those are resolved we can start a full data sweep
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, questions?
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Yes
      [Chair]Eddy: Go
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Time line for choose tag work? We've had plenty of issues
      concerning both the layout and desired actions.
      jfrazierjr: Eddy, assign that one to me since I did the original work on
      Subst class
      [Chair]Eddy: will do Joe
      [Chair]Eddy: is anyone else REALLY anoyed about how SF changed there login
      memory? gggrrrr
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Yep!
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I think Tom is handling the majority of Choose...
      [Arch_SB]thpr: on CHOOSE work, I'm working on FAV/FAVOREDCLASS right now,
      and don't want to create two local sandboxes (got down to one before I
      upgraded to Eclipse Europa)
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: YES, SF login is annoying
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I found problems in my implementation, been working on those
      this evening... FAVCLASS should be done probably Thu, if I don't clean it up
      tonight
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Then to CHOOSE
      [Chair]Eddy: Great :-)
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Good good... CHOOSE has been a major headache,
      [Chair]Eddy: Did that edit to the troubleshooting sheet help?
      [Chair]Eddy: Shall we go to Admin next?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: yes, thanks a lot for the OS update
      [Chair]Eddy: no prob
      [Arch_SB]thpr: There are some LEVEL.X errors being piped out of the sheet
      though
      [Arch_SB]thpr: 21:03:39.31 SEVERE AWT-EventQueue-1 StatToken:154 Malformed
      LEVEL.x tag
      [Chair]Eddy: I didn't know we could report that info, need to open some
      FREQs for the sheets for that
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ok, I'll open one
      [Arch_SB]thpr: doesn't seem to produce bad output, so not a big deal
      [Chair]Eddy: it low priority, just makes having FAVCLASS in the data
      actually useful
      [Chair]Eddy: Andrew, you ready or shall we go to Eric?
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Yeah, my report is short...
      [Chair]Eddy: you on
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Release: James is working on the release - I'll update the
      release notes tonight, (Tom made several fixes and closed a few trackers on
      me... :) )
      [Chair]Eddy: I did as well
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: So 5.13.7 should be tonight or tomorrow.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Me too . . .
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Ok, ok... code fixes... :)
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Trackers - Nothing much to report in this area. Open and
      Close - teams are doing good on self moderating and prioritizing.
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Website - Our number #1 focus, but I think momentum died
      over the holidays... Besides getting a WIKI up and running no progress has
      been done or made here... :(
      [Chair]Eddy: That's true across the board, December kills lots of stuff
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Anestis has tried to rebuild the momentum and get people
      on track, but I've not see more than one reply.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: How functional is the wiki?
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: It's setup, I haven't messed with it yet... But if you
      want to play with it.... :)
      [Chair]Eddy: Oh I had an idea to float
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Go
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: The SF Wiki is driving me nuts . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: Anestis can't make this meeting time, maybe we should have a
      meeting specific to the web site at a different time, one he can make
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I'll be there . . .
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: My schedule has changed... Sat/Sun/Mon are all good for
      me.
      [Chair]Eddy: doesn't have to be as frequent as this and doesn't need all
      silverbacks
      [Chair]Eddy: just something to think about, I'll post that to the board and
      we can work it out there
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: That works... I'd like to get the website team together
      and get to work on it.
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Any other questions for Admin?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I have a question . . .
      irc: [Code_SB]jdempse has joined pcgen
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Any thoughts on being W3 Compliant with the Release Notes?
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Hi James
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Hi James!
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Yes, I've got eclipse setup, I Just need to setup the w3c
      stuff... I only pop in the new stuff, so it shouldn't be hard to maintain.
      [Chair]Eddy: I see no reason not to unless it's time consuming
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Hello everyone
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Once we're set up for it, its not hard at all . . .
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: James - Release tonight or tomorrow - correct?
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Yep
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: k - I'll have the updated release notes after the meeting
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: In fact, I've made some fixes to the current notes . . .
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Thanks for that
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Ok, unless any further questions Admin is done.
      [Chair]Eddy: OK shall we move to PR?
      [Chair]Eddy: Eric, you're up
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Thanks! . ..We've not had a lot of stuff in PR since the
      last meeting.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: We are currently preping a letter to the publishers con the
      Cover Art/Logo.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: CD Roms are going out to a small number of publishers this
      week. Once 5.14 comes out, I want to do a mass mailing . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: We have had no new permissions in the last three weeks,
      though I did get hold of Paizo and was told "I'm too busy nw, call me next
      year . . . " . . . :-) I'll be calling naext week . ..
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Excellent, and Monte Cook to the list please - for his
      World of Darkness d20
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: On the advertising front, we posted notes on about 6 sites
      last release, and we will do the same this week.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I am trying to expand the number of sites we post too . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Yep. WoD is on the list to look into.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: PaulG. Anything from OGL?
      [OGL]Nylanfs: Not much
      [Chair]Eddy: I guess we haven't heard from BadAxe Games? that was all I know
      was pending
      [OGL]Nylanfs: I noted that the Clash of Calvery is cleared on the tracker
      [OGL]Nylanfs: Added the missing feat needed for Faeries to the tracker
      [OGL]Nylanfs: I think that is about it
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Cool. Thanks!
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Incase no one saw it, I removed the Spycraft 2 DEv Spec
      from the wiki. It has been placed in the files section of the BoD list.
      [Chair]Eddy: not sure if we need to worry about removing dev specs
      [Chair]Eddy: we certainly want to support games even if we can't add them
      ourselves
      [Chair]Eddy: I don't think a spec steps on any toes
      [Chair]Eddy: (I could be wrong)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: My only concern was the references to the game mechanics .
      . . Without permissions form Crafty for Spycraft 2, I thought is was better
      to remve it . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: But hey, I'm hoping we can change their mind one day . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Unless there are question, I'm done . . .
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Yes
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: ?
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Where are we on the affliates Program?
      [Chair]Eddy: game mechanics can't be copyrighted... but I have no objection
      to the action, it's not like that spec was going to get done anytime soon
      (or at all) :-)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Waiting for the code to catch up and for the letters to go
      out to the publishers. And for the discussion on going NP . . .
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: ok, thanks
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Oh, one more thing . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Gen Con Indy 2008 . . . We need to be there in force . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Or rather, I would like us to be there in force . . . Wok
      on increasing PCGen's mind-share with the community . ..
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: More n that later . . . Thats it . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: ON a completely un-{R related track, can anyone point me to
      a good Perl reference?
      [OGL]Nylanfs: Plus a face to face BoD meeting gets a lot done
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: :-)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Reference or learning book?
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: We have faces? :P
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Reference is the Camel book
      [Arch_SB]thpr: We can chat on Perl later, after the meeting
      [Chair]Eddy: Any more questions for PR?
      [Chair]Eddy: Lets move to Code, James you're up
      [Code_SB]jdempse: ok
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: REference . . . I learn better that way . . .
      [Code_SB]jdempse: 3 features completed this release and 5 to go. 2 of those
      are unassigned, but quite simple
      [Code_SB]jdempse: 3 bugs corrected, only 32 outstanding :(
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Code is getting quite close to being ready for beta. Main
      issue will be the conversion ability of the CDOM branch and if we want to go
      to beta before that is ready
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Is CDOM even operational yet?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'm comfortable with Beta after the FREQs are done, holding
      up the release for compatibility analysis
      [Code_SB]jdempse: ok
      [Code_SB]jdempse: So possibly only 1 or two more alphas needed from a code
      persective
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Andrew, CDOM has had a lot of work done on it, but I don't
      believe it can run charaqctergeneration yet. Tom is that right?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: It uses entirely old code for char generation
      [Arch_SB]thpr: but technically should work, if it is about 400 SVN commits
      behind
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: ok
      [Code_SB]jdempse: So any questions or subjects you'd like more info on?
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I'm good...
      [Chair]Eddy: OK, shall we move to ARCH then?
      [Chair]Eddy: Tom, you're up
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Okay, first a mixed Code/Arch question...
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I just finished FAVCLASS, if I commit that (1800342) is
      everyone okay with that for the release (since it causes release note
      changes, etc.)
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Yep
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ok, I'll do that after the meeting
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Commit it now please...
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I'm doing the release notes currently - :)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: or as soon as I don't need to type
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ;)
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: ok, that works. :)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: So that leaves one Arch FREQ for 5.14
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Will it cause any bad effects on data? i.e. reams of
      deprecation messages?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'll start on that Thu
      [Arch_SB]thpr: yes, it will cause dep messages on all FAVCLASS or
      FAVOREDCLASS tokens
      [Arch_SB]thpr: actually no
      [Arch_SB]thpr: sorry
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Even better
      [Arch_SB]thpr: not done - need to figure out how to detect issues, if I
      haven't yet (need to check)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: anyway,
      [Arch_SB]thpr: it should warn if people use a subclass without the parent
      (e.g. FAVCLASS:Illusionist)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Other than that, I need to update the arch doc to talk about
      how the characters will be built internally
      [Arch_SB]thpr: a bit different than the original plan, due to the tracing
      requirements, but still straightforward
      [Arch_SB]thpr: on the Compatibility question, I was getting pretty good
      results a bit ago (probably Sep-Oct timeframe)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: so only will need to account for changes after that
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Nice
      [Arch_SB]thpr: So that is why I think we should go beta when the FREQs are
      done
      [Arch_SB]thpr: then I can jump back and forth between bug stomping &
      compatibility
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Will need to get help again from Barak, but the first set of
      results he sent me told me a lot about how they code, so most of that cleans
      up easily
      [Arch_SB]thpr: once I get through CHOOSE, I'll work on that and get out a
      list of what is choking and what is left, so people have a sense of the
      number of items left
      [Arch_SB]thpr: to get a compatibility checker shipped
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I think that's it from me, questions?
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Just glad to see you back in action... :)
      [Chair]Eddy: I got one
      [Chair]Eddy: did you see my post about CHOOSE:USERINPUT?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Saw the post, haven't processed it
      [Arch_SB]thpr: let me read that and get back to you
      [Chair]Eddy: no problem
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Oh, that's easy
      [Arch_SB]thpr: false error message
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I can clean that up
      [Chair]Eddy: so the number IS optional?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'd guess so, based on how the rest of the CHOOSE tags are
      supposed to work
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the problem is that there is the bug we need to fix on
      trailing #s
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the confusion of docs v. data v. code on this one probably
      caused me to insert a bad error message
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Yep - might be one we want to fix before beta too
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'll double check, but that's my instinct at thsi opint
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: yes please
      [Chair]Eddy: please
      [Chair]Eddy: so what is the deal with the trailing number?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: All CHOOSEs should have an optional trailing number
      [Arch_SB]thpr: (or most, if not all)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: But the code ignores it at this point
      [Arch_SB]thpr: breaks some data sets, so we need to re-add support for it
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I thought the number was required or will be in the near
      future
      [Arch_SB]thpr: looks like it disappeared in the 5.9 timeframe
      [Arch_SB]thpr: not required
      [Arch_SB]thpr: not planning to require it either, as far as I know
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: When you say most, if not all, can I get a more definitive
      statement?
      [Chair]Eddy: If that is fixed then each choose could have multiple choices
      for a single feat point?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Maredudd: Yea, after I finish rebuilding CHOOSE for EqMods
      and go read all the code ;)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Eddy: Yes
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Thanks Tom! :-)
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Would that remove the need for NUMCHOICES?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: no
      [Arch_SB]thpr: well, wait
      [Chair]Eddy: What if you had 2 feat points and choose with 3 at the end,
      would you be allowed 6 selections when you added the feat?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: if you use two slots, then yes, 6 choices
      [Arch_SB]thpr: if you want to limit it to be taken once, then you need to
      set NUMCHOICSE=3
      [Arch_SB]thpr: that's why NUMCHOICES doesn't get removed
      [Arch_SB]thpr: however, Frank thought COUNT= could be deprecated
      [Arch_SB]thpr:
      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/message/8787
      [Arch_SB]thpr: However, based on 8982 (the end of that thread), I'm not sure
      removing COUNT ever got to a vote
      [Chair]Eddy: That may be where we lost Frank
      [Arch_SB]thpr: That's about when he got busy, yes
      [Chair]Eddy: I'll review the thread and see if I can get it sumarized
      [Chair]Eddy: push a vote if needed
      [Chair]Eddy: My only concern with the scenario I mentioned is that the user
      needs some way to know he should only make 3 selections for one feat
      [Arch_SB]thpr: good point, we'll have to think about that
      [Chair]Eddy: If it says six they might take them all and unintentionally use
      all his feats
      [Chair]Eddy: OK
      [Chair]Eddy: Otherwise being able to set multiple selections per feat point
      is great!
      [Code_SB]jdempse: We could do that with a bit more info on the remaing
      choices line (5, 2 for current feat, 1 feat unspent) or some such
      [Chair]Eddy: clear feed back in the GUI would be fine, I would want to limit
      the ability to spend all those feat points, if that's what you want to do
      the less clicking the better
      [Chair]Eddy: Any more questions for Tom?
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Not from me
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I'm good
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Not from me . . . at least as part of the meeting . .. :-)
      [Chair]Eddy: OK then, my agend items were: where'er we at and regaining
      momentum
      [Chair]Eddy: The rreports gave us a good picture of where we're at, close to
      going beta
      [Chair]Eddy: as for momentum I personaly have some rare free time to devote
      to PCGen this month and I'm looking forward to it
      [Chair]Eddy: How's everybody else? Anyone still feeling the RL crunch?
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Give me a focus to hit and I'll do it.
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: MOst of the data trackers are tricky and require some
      consensus
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: RL isn't too bad currently.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I'm doing good . . . busy at work, but I don't bring it
      home . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Does anyone have any ideas on how we can improve on our
      recruitment?
      [Code_SB]jdempse: The last couple of weeks have been hectic, but I am
      looking forward to things settling down in the near future
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: After some experience getting eclipse up and running,
      improving our documentation on the code team WIKI would definitely help.
      [Code_SB]jdempse: :) Yof found a few steps missing eh?
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: For potential Code Monkeys... which we seem to need.
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Did you already update after our last round?
      [Chair]Eddy: Any team really, we're a small crew all told
      [Code_SB]jdempse: Nothing major Andrew, no
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Do you have some recommendations Andrew?
      [OGL]Nylanfs: I mentioned this to Eric a couple of months ago, hit up any
      local collages Comp Sci dept. Especially if they have a devoted Java program
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Ask around - Our group is a good place... Ppl seem
      impressed with the helpful replies they recieve in a timely manner, some
      might be willing to join.
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Nice one Paul...
      [OGL]Nylanfs: We need to try and lure Ovka for Q&A testing :)
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Regular postings for recruitment . . . ?
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I got eight ppl for the web team, but after a couple of
      weeks, only the dedicated seem to stick around...
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I think the recruitment is only one step, retention is
      another... We need to keep them engaged till they can function on their own.
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: IIt might be a good idea to hit up the local colleges . . .
      plus I'd still like to get an article to O'Reilly's On Java . . . Tom?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: yea, I'm behind on that. FAVCLASS and CHOOSE first, since
      those are gating Beta
      [Arch_SB]thpr: then other stuff
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Tom when is the best time to reach you between meetings?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Keeping them engaged is going to be the hard part. A start
      will be to have clearly documented procedures for how the team does things .
      . .
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Yes, and giving them "low-hanging" fruit projects to build
      their confidence.
      [Arch_SB]thpr: uhh, it's pretty random
      [Arch_SB]thpr: but I can probably do most Thursdays
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I've noted, James, that you tend to leave the simpler code
      jobs alone for awile. I try to do the same for docs trackers . . . Give
      someone just starting out something smple to try . . .
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I'd say for our "easy" trackers we should mark them as
      such, just so they can be found...
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Eddy, did you have anything else you wanted to talk about
      agenda wise?
      [Chair]Eddy: Nope, open discussion for now
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I have three items - CMP [Up to speed and compatible];
      the "4e" push - release expected June 2008... Plus what can we do to be more
      open ended in expanding our gaming endeavors
      [Chair]Eddy: I think I just fixed the email notification for New Source
      Developement trackers
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Cool, I haven't seen many of those lately
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Okay, one at a time andrew
      [Chair]Eddy: had a bad email address, a cap which should have been lower
      case
      [Arch_SB]thpr: CMP - on compatibility, Barak gave me a first pass output, so
      our side on code is okay
      jfrazierjr: Eddy, if you have not found anyone by the end of Jan to look at
      the XML-FO stuff for PDF, ping me and I will look into it... I will be
      taking some time off to burn some extra time I have banked...
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Not sure where the data volunteers are on helping out
      [Chair]Eddy: Cool, thanks Joe I'll do that
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Tom - I don't think any of our volunteers have been
      approached for the CMP overhaul. Otherwise, excellent to hear.
      jfrazierjr: I don't know FO stuff, but am good at XSLT in general, so will
      try to gronk it..
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Well, someone should ping Barak on that again
      [Chair]Eddy: That's they way I understood it as well
      [Arch_SB]thpr: if they aren't going to make that effort, then really, we
      should be placing our effort elsewhere as well
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Frank was our point man, but... I guess it passes to Eddy
      as acting Content.
      [Chair]Eddy: Joe's DMM script should help them greatly once he's got it
      working
      [Arch_SB]thpr: it's too bad, because we've spent a ton of effort doing token
      changes exactly for that purpose
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: AS I understand it, Barak has been doing all the upgrades
      himself . . . and is doing fairly well at it . . .
      [Arch_SB]thpr: well, he got 5.12, but that was an easy transition
      [Arch_SB]thpr: I'm unsure if he's been looking at the 5.13 set
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Got it . . .
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Eddy, that may require a follow-up with Barak
      [Chair]Eddy: Well it not like the token work doesn't benefit us in the end
      anyway :)
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Yeah, the ability object upgrade will be a pain...
      [Chair]Eddy: No problem, will do
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Thankfully the abilitycat.lst improvement is helping out
      tremedously.
      [Chair]Eddy: Should be less so for CMP, thier data uses hidden feats much
      more than ours
      [Chair]Eddy: but still lots of work
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Yes, it all depends on how extensive they want to use the
      ability cat feature.
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: When does CMPs License for maintaining the sets expire?
      [Chair]Eddy: This year on Nov 30
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Okay... So we should be in the 5.14 close to 6.0 hopefully
      by then.
      [Chair]Eddy: That would be ideal.. but is it possible?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: The point behind locking the tokens in 5.14 was to give them
      time to implement
      [Arch_SB]thpr: whether or not 6.0 is ready shouldn't matter
      [Arch_SB]thpr: since the 5.14 tokens will import correctly into 6.0
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Anything is possible... but feasible is another question.
      :)
      [Chair]Eddy: That's good news then
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Tom, I saw some token proposals for 6.0 in your road map,
      isn't that going to be a problem for the CMP sets at that point?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Eventually they will have to break
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: So, in theory, if the CMP datasets work for 5.14, they
      should work for 6.9?
      [Arch_SB]thpr: the point is to defer that for as long as possible
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: 6.0 . . .
      [Arch_SB]thpr: should be in practice as well as in theory. That's the
      commitment the code team makes to data - if a token works in a given release
      and is not deprecated, then it will work in the subsequent release
      [Arch_SB]thpr: The 5.15 proposals on the wiki are all syntax (commas vs.
      other characters) and are not meaningful in terms of ambiguity
      [Arch_SB]thpr: So all of those can be automatically converted
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Excellent...
      [Arch_SB]thpr: It's when we get into containers and other special stuff
      where there will be new features they won't have
      [Arch_SB]thpr: But for the features that are present in 6.0, it's my belief
      that a file that imports into 5.14 should work through the entire 6.x cycle.
      When we break that is when we should declare PCGen 7.0
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Of course that's my idealistic POV, so take it with a heavy
      dose of salt
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Great . . . I can see 'The FUture of PCGen' being handed
      out at Gen Con . ..
      [Chair]Eddy: So in terms of long term compatibility once CMP data is updated
      to work in 5.14 they are good for the ride to 6.0 and beyond?
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: New users won't be able to take advantage of the CMMP sets,
      but lots of others will . . .
      [Arch_SB]thpr: yes (and part of the purpose of shipping a compatibility
      checker is to test for very subtle syntax errors)
      [Arch_SB]thpr: So just to clarify the 6.0 state: _Well_formed_ 5.14 files
      will import into 6.0
      [Chair]Eddy: Excellent! :-)
      [Chair]Eddy: That settles some worries I had
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: And if we can get BArak to put together inastall files,
      they'll be easy to install . . . :-)
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Cool
      [Chair]Eddy: So Andrew, what's this about 4e? :)
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: The big push of 4e that is coming June 2008 (Five months)
      [Chair]Eddy: anybody hear any new rumors about the SRD for 4e? (like when it
      will come out) I haven't
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I have tried to get WorC to talk to us but have had no
      luck, so we likely won't see the 4SRD until everyone else does . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: I'd bet money on that
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I've been working on the Star wars Saga Edition, which by
      most reports and speculation is the pre-4e thing... Anyways, I've been
      building it and am glad to report that most of the 4e stuff we know of will
      be supported with very little changes to our code base
      [OGL]Nylanfs: Also thinkgs from the Book of Nine Swords
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: With the advantage of Ability objects we can support those
      extra cool things.
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Anyways, with the model in hand, we'll be able to put out
      a 4e rsrd set very quickly. Eddy is already working on a html improvement,
      so we are looking pretty sharp.
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Any questions on that before I bring up my last topic?
      [Chair]Eddy: nope
      [OGL]Nylanfs: Not I
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: OK, my last topic: Supporting other game systems. I think
      we are doing a good job of unhardcoding a few things, but my experience with
      the Starwars set, and that of Paul doing his Shadowrun set, leaves us with
      several things that we need to do to get full support for other game
      systems.
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: What all of them are, I don't know yet... But the ability
      to remove unneeded tabs would be nice... Spells, Domains.... is one...
      [OGL]Nylanfs: Races
      [Chair]Eddy: That can be done now in the gameMode
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Thanks Paul, I was just about to ask if you had anything
      to add there...
      [OGL]Nylanfs: Can't remove the "Feats" sub-tab that I can find
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I tried... Alignment removed easily though.
      [OGL]Nylanfs: It wound be nice to be able to remove sections of the summery
      tab
      [Chair]Eddy: I think that all is under the umbrella of GUI overhaul which
      was an upcoming project at one time
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Anyways, just some topics to mull over on how we can best
      accomplish them and our goals... Obviously our priorities are 5.14 release -
      CMP updated / compatibility and 4e.
      [Arch_SB]thpr: Nah, hiding stuff and things like that can be done before an
      overhaul
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: I think the GUI is slated for 6.2 . ..
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Yeah, GUI is 6.2
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Sometime 2009 I think
      [Arch_SB]thpr: If it's just hiding a tab or two, I wouldn't wait
      [Arch_SB]thpr: ask James what his favorite candy is and see if you can get
      it snuck into 5.14
      [Chair]Eddy: LOL
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: LOL
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: jinx!
      [Chair]Eddy: mmm .. candy
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Shipping cost to Australia.... hmmm...
      [OGL]Nylanfs: Okay I need to be getting to bed
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Thanks Paul, good night
      [OGL]Nylanfs: Order from Aust and have delivered
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: See ya Paul!
      [Chair]Eddy: Night Paul
      [OGL]Nylanfs: I've done that with flowers
      [OGL]Nylanfs: :)
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Cool
      irc: [OGL]Nylanfs has left pcgen
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: I'm out of ideas and topics....
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: for now....
      [Chair]Eddy: I must admit my pumpkins about out of gas too
      [Chair]Eddy: and we've almost at 2 hours
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: So, I mentioned it earlier, but I think its worth bringing
      up again . . . Not-for-Proffit Corp . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: so time to bang the gavel
      [Chair]Eddy: *bang bang*
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Bryan said he was amenable, as long as it was done right,
      andd protected his interest . . .
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Danm!
      [Admin_SB]AMaitl: Eric, you've been gaveled!
      [PR_SB]Maredudd: Too late . . .
      [Chair]Eddy: maybe next time...
    • Joey Derrico
      I am having a problem with the Zombie Template. I am trying to make several creatures into zombies (Human Warriors and Commoners, Dwarf Barbarians and Owlbears
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 7, 2008
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        I am having a problem with the Zombie Template. I am trying to make
        several creatures into zombies (Human Warriors and Commoners, Dwarf
        Barbarians and Owlbears amongst others) It gives the Slam attack,
        removes CON, INT and WIS and it lists the single action, but it doesn't
        give the Natural Armor or Damage Reduction. It also doesn't remove feats
        or skills from the base creature. I am using version 5.12.1

        Joey
      • Eddy Anthony
        ... Hi Joey Not removing the feats and skills is a known issue, PCGen currently does not have a function that can do this. You can remove these manually. I m
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 8, 2008
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          Joey Derrico wrote:
          > I am having a problem with the Zombie Template. I am trying to make
          > several creatures into zombies (Human Warriors and Commoners, Dwarf
          > Barbarians and Owlbears amongst others) It gives the Slam attack,
          > removes CON, INT and WIS and it lists the single action, but it doesn't
          > give the Natural Armor or Damage Reduction. It also doesn't remove feats
          > or skills from the base creature. I am using version 5.12.1
          >
          > Joey
          >

          Hi Joey
          Not removing the feats and skills is a known issue, PCGen currently
          does not have a function that can do this. You can remove these manually.

          I'm not sure about the AC and DR but that's probably a bug, I'll
          look into it and get that in.

          --
          ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
          ~ Chair Monkey, PCGen Board of Directors
          ~ Data Content Second, Doc Chimp, OS Tamarin
        • Eddy Anthony
          ... BTW if you didn t notice we have implemented all the sample zombies in the text as default monsters each as a separate race. This is so they will match the
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 8, 2008
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            Eddy Anthony wrote:
            > Joey Derrico wrote:
            >
            >> I am having a problem with the Zombie Template. I am trying to make
            >> several creatures into zombies (Human Warriors and Commoners, Dwarf
            >> Barbarians and Owlbears amongst others) It gives the Slam attack,
            >> removes CON, INT and WIS and it lists the single action, but it doesn't
            >> give the Natural Armor or Damage Reduction. It also doesn't remove feats
            >> or skills from the base creature. I am using version 5.12.1
            >>
            >> Joey
            >>
            >>
            >
            > Hi Joey
            > Not removing the feats and skills is a known issue, PCGen currently
            > does not have a function that can do this. You can remove these manually.
            >
            > I'm not sure about the AC and DR but that's probably a bug, I'll
            > look into it and get that in.
            >

            BTW if you didn't notice we have implemented all the sample zombies in
            the text as default monsters each as a separate race. This is so they
            will match the text exactly and they don't actually use the template.

            Looks like the AC bonus is in there it's just not got the Natural TYPE,
            so it should show up, just under MISC instead, I'll get that fixed.

            The DR was probably overlooked because it is only mentioned in the
            sample zombie stat blocks and not under special abilities that the
            template grants. Probably an oversite, the Skeleton has a similar DR
            which is mentioned under special abilities. I'll get that fixed up too.

            --
            ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
            ~ Chair Monkey, PCGen Board of Directors
            ~ Data Content Second, Doc Chimp, OS Tamarin
          • Joey Derrico
            the DR is in the errata up on the wizards site. And Thanks Joey ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 8, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              the DR is in the errata up on the wizards site.

              And Thanks

              Joey

              Eddy Anthony wrote:
              >
              > Eddy Anthony wrote:
              > > Joey Derrico wrote:
              > >
              > >> I am having a problem with the Zombie Template. I am trying to make
              > >> several creatures into zombies (Human Warriors and Commoners, Dwarf
              > >> Barbarians and Owlbears amongst others) It gives the Slam attack,
              > >> removes CON, INT and WIS and it lists the single action, but it
              > doesn't
              > >> give the Natural Armor or Damage Reduction. It also doesn't remove
              > feats
              > >> or skills from the base creature. I am using version 5.12.1
              > >>
              > >> Joey
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > > Hi Joey
              > > Not removing the feats and skills is a known issue, PCGen currently
              > > does not have a function that can do this. You can remove these
              > manually.
              > >
              > > I'm not sure about the AC and DR but that's probably a bug, I'll
              > > look into it and get that in.
              > >
              >
              > BTW if you didn't notice we have implemented all the sample zombies in
              > the text as default monsters each as a separate race. This is so they
              > will match the text exactly and they don't actually use the template.
              >
              > Looks like the AC bonus is in there it's just not got the Natural TYPE,
              > so it should show up, just under MISC instead, I'll get that fixed.
              >
              > The DR was probably overlooked because it is only mentioned in the
              > sample zombie stat blocks and not under special abilities that the
              > template grants. Probably an oversite, the Skeleton has a similar DR
              > which is mentioned under special abilities. I'll get that fixed up too.
              >
              > --
              > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
              > ~ Chair Monkey, PCGen Board of Directors
              > ~ Data Content Second, Doc Chimp, OS Tamarin
              >
              >


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