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Re: UI freezes when creating New character, pcgen 5121

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  • crazed_ape
    Wrote my last post before I saw the response from Terry, here s the additional info: OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 25, 2007
      Wrote my last post before I saw the response from Terry, here's the
      additional info:

      OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional
      Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
      OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation

      java version "1.6.0_03"
      Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_03-b05)
      Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.6.0_03-b05, mixed mode, sharing)

      Windows updates are current. Loading the indicated sources does leave
      my console clear.

      My initial question is kind of irrelevant now since the program does
      start working eventually, but I'd still like to know if something
      isn't right, or if the long initialization time (over a minute) is normal.

      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Terry FitzSimons <fitzsimons@...> wrote:
      >
      > Probably going to need some more information. Does your XP have the
      current
      > updates? and what is the type of XP is it?
      >
      > What sources are your trying to run?
      >
      > I just checked and can run the 5.12.1 on my XP.
      >
      > You might want to clear the Debug console up on the menu bar.
      >
      > Assuming RSRD -> Complete with PcGen OGL.
      >
      > My Debug Console is clear, what does yours show?
      >
      > I have everything available.
      >
      > OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
      > Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
      > OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
      >
      > java version "1.6.0_03-b05"
      > Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.6.0_03-b05)
      > Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.6.0_03-b05, mixed mode)
      >
      >
      > Terry FitzSimons
      > FITZSIMONS@...(Small Letters Only)
      >
      > Data Lemur, Docs Gibbon
      >
    • David R. Bender
      I am using my laptop. 3.33G processor, 1G ram, slow (5400) hard drive, Java 1.6.0_03-b05 From when I click on the icon to start PCGen, about 27 seconds to get
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 25, 2007
        I am using my laptop. 3.33G processor, 1G ram, slow (5400) hard drive,
        Java 1.6.0_03-b05

        From when I click on the icon to start PCGen, about 27 seconds to get
        the initial panel up. About 7 seconds to load the complete RSRD with
        homebrew stuff, and about 4 seconds to start a new PC.

        As an FYI, if you are using the complete RSRD, it is only 1 entry on the
        Source Materials panel (RSRD -> Complete -> 3.5 RSRD)

        -- David
        Papa-DRB

        Grognard <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grognard>


        crazed_ape wrote:
        > Wrote my last post before I saw the response from Terry, here's the
        > additional info:
        >
        > OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional
        > Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
        > OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
        >
        > java version "1.6.0_03"
        > Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_03-b05)
        > Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.6.0_03-b05, mixed mode, sharing)
        >
        > Windows updates are current. Loading the indicated sources does leave
        > my console clear.
        >
        > My initial question is kind of irrelevant now since the program does
        > start working eventually, but I'd still like to know if something
        > isn't right, or if the long initialization time (over a minute) is normal.
        >
      • Eddy Anthony
        ... Depends on your processor speed. I have an older 400GHz Mac which runs PCGen at these kind of speeds. My 1.8GHz G5 is much zippier. I would not expect such
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 26, 2007
          crazed_ape scribed:

          > It turns out the gui does become responsive EVENTUALLY lol. It takes
          > over a minute (on a 3.2GHz processor) and there are no progress bars
          > or other feedback so I just assumed the program was deadlocked.
          >
          > Is this amount of initialization time "normal" or does it seem
          > excessive? It takes as long whether I have just one "core book" loaded
          > or the whole RSRD.

          Depends on your processor speed. I have an older 400GHz Mac which runs PCGen
          at these kind of speeds. My 1.8GHz G5 is much zippier. I would not expect
          such a pause from a 3.2GHz machine so I'm not sure what to tell you.
          Regardless of the machine there is always a pause between the time the load
          bar ends and when you can actually start using the program. It would be
          interesting to know what the program is doing at that time, might give us a
          clue why your time is so long.
          --
          ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
          ~ Chair Monkey, PCGen Board of Directors
          ~ Data Content Second, Doc Chimp, OS Tamarin
        • Andiy Sen
          ... Generating equipment? Thanks, Andriy
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 26, 2007
            > bar ends and when you can actually start using the program. It would be
            > interesting to know what the program is doing at that time, might give us
            > a
            > clue why your time is so long.
            Generating equipment?

            Thanks,
            Andriy
          • Terry FitzSimons
            Now that does sound familiar. I think of it as a growing problem. Usually it takes me (up to 5.13.x series) several restarts to get the system to assign the
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 26, 2007
              Now that does sound familiar. I think of it as a growing problem. Usually
              it takes me (up to 5.13.x series) several restarts to get the system to
              assign the proper amount of memory for it to run in.

              Usually I would start, close, start, close, start, open something, close,
              start, open, close (ect till I could create a character, then have fun with
              the print to pdf command, another long run there, way back in history it
              took 8hr 42min for it to print a pdf, now it don't.).

              Do you need the last stable?

              Terry

              On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 03:34:47 -0000, "crazed_ape" <darkadept_99@...>
              wrote:

              >It turns out the gui does become responsive EVENTUALLY lol. It takes
              >over a minute (on a 3.2GHz processor) and there are no progress bars
              >or other feedback so I just assumed the program was deadlocked.
              >
              >Is this amount of initialization time "normal" or does it seem
              >excessive? It takes as long whether I have just one "core book" loaded
              >or the whole RSRD.
              >
              >The debug console shows there's LOTS of memory available:
              >
              >Memory: 520,320Kb total, 435,463.32Kb free, 609,728Kb max.
              --

              Terry FitzSimons
              FITZSIMONS@...(Small Letters Only)

              Data Lemur, Docs Gibbon
            • crazed_ape
              It turns out my antivirus was the problem. With it disabled, it only takes 7 seconds for Pcgen to become usable instead of 70. I finally figured this out when
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 29, 2007
                It turns out my antivirus was the problem. With it disabled, it only
                takes 7 seconds for Pcgen to become usable instead of 70.

                I finally figured this out when I was trying to use a java profiler
                (which was itself a java prog) to see what the hell was going on, and
                *it* got hung up forever.

                So this had nothing at all to do with Pcgen, sorry for the false alarm
                and thanks to everyone who responded.
              • James Dempsey
                Hi, On 30/12/2007 12:37 PM crazed_ape wrote ... That s really interesting. What anti-virus are you running? I m guessing it has been set to do an on demand
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 30, 2007
                  Hi,

                  On 30/12/2007 12:37 PM crazed_ape wrote
                  > It turns out my antivirus was the problem. With it disabled, it only
                  > takes 7 seconds for Pcgen to become usable instead of 70.
                  >
                  > I finally figured this out when I was trying to use a java profiler
                  > (which was itself a java prog) to see what the hell was going on, and
                  > *it* got hung up forever.
                  >
                  > So this had nothing at all to do with Pcgen, sorry for the false alarm
                  > and thanks to everyone who responded.
                  >
                  >
                  That's really interesting. What anti-virus are you running? I'm guessing
                  it has been set to do an on demand scan for every access of a class in
                  the jar file, which would cripple the program entirely. Perhaps there is
                  a middle ground it could be set to.

                  --
                  Cheers,
                  James Dempsey
                  PCGen Code SB
                • Eddy Anthony
                  Glad you figured it out. And thank you for replying to report what the problem was, although it didn t have anything to do with PCGen this may help others
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 30, 2007
                    Glad you figured it out. And thank you for replying to report what the
                    problem was, although it didn't have anything to do with PCGen this may help
                    others encountering the same issue.

                    crazed_ape scribed:

                    > It turns out my antivirus was the problem. With it disabled, it only
                    > takes 7 seconds for Pcgen to become usable instead of 70.
                    >
                    > I finally figured this out when I was trying to use a java profiler
                    > (which was itself a java prog) to see what the hell was going on, and
                    > *it* got hung up forever.
                    >
                    > So this had nothing at all to do with Pcgen, sorry for the false alarm
                    > and thanks to everyone who responded.

                    --
                    ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                    ~ Chair Monkey, PCGen Board of Directors
                    ~ Data Content Second, Doc Chimp, OS Tamarin
                  • crazed_ape
                    I m using eTrust EZ Antivirus by a company called Computer Associates, it s pretty obscure but it s free from my ISP. I did try excluding *.jar and *.class
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 30, 2007
                      I'm using "eTrust EZ Antivirus" by a company called Computer
                      Associates, it's pretty obscure but it's free from my ISP. I did try
                      excluding *.jar and *.class files from scans but it didn't help, the
                      program has very limited configuration options. The "real-time"
                      scanning feature apparently scans every file that is accessed,
                      although I've never noticed a performance problem with compiled
                      executables. Possibly their accesses are ignored by the antivirus
                      whereas those made by the JVM are not.

                      Obscure antivirus prog obscure problems I guess lol ;)

                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:
                      > That's really interesting. What anti-virus are you running? I'm
                      guessing
                      > it has been set to do an on demand scan for every access of a class in
                      > the jar file, which would cripple the program entirely. Perhaps
                      there is
                      > a middle ground it could be set to.
                      >
                      > --
                      > Cheers,
                      > James Dempsey
                      > PCGen Code SB
                      >
                    • Tir Gwaith
                      ... Every file that is accessed? Like, all the different System files, and all PCCs? Then when loading those, every .LST file? That would cripple things.
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 31, 2007
                        On 12/30/07, crazed_ape <darkadept_99@...> wrote:
                        > I'm using "eTrust EZ Antivirus" by a company called Computer
                        > Associates, it's pretty obscure but it's free from my ISP. I did try
                        > excluding *.jar and *.class files from scans but it didn't help, the
                        > program has very limited configuration options. The "real-time"
                        > scanning feature apparently scans every file that is accessed,

                        Every file that is accessed? Like, all the different System files,
                        and all PCCs? Then when loading those, every .LST file? That would
                        cripple things.

                        Side note: using McCaffee and Norton on different computers, I get
                        slowness... I'm still out looking for a good AV program that doesn't
                        eat memory. My one "safe" box without an AV program constantly
                        running is much more on the Zippy scale.

                        --
                        Tir Gwaith
                        PCGen LST Chimp
                      • joefrazierjr
                        ... Yea, and thats what McCaffee and Norton do by default. On my work laptop the settings are all disabled, so I cannot change them. I have AVG (free
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 31, 2007
                          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Tir Gwaith" <Tir.Gwaith@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On 12/30/07, crazed_ape <darkadept_99@...> wrote:
                          > > I'm using "eTrust EZ Antivirus" by a company called Computer
                          > > Associates, it's pretty obscure but it's free from my ISP. I did try
                          > > excluding *.jar and *.class files from scans but it didn't help, the
                          > > program has very limited configuration options. The "real-time"
                          > > scanning feature apparently scans every file that is accessed,
                          >
                          > Every file that is accessed? Like, all the different System files,
                          > and all PCCs? Then when loading those, every .LST file? That would
                          > cripple things.
                          >
                          > Side note: using McCaffee and Norton on different computers, I get
                          > slowness... I'm still out looking for a good AV program that doesn't
                          > eat memory. My one "safe" box without an AV program constantly
                          > running is much more on the Zippy scale.
                          >
                          > --
                          > Tir Gwaith
                          > PCGen LST Chimp
                          >

                          Yea, and thats what McCaffee and Norton do by default. On my work
                          laptop the settings are all disabled, so I cannot change them. I
                          have AVG (free edition) on my desktop but have not tried PCGen on it.
                          I will try later today and let you know my results.

                          Joe
                        • Andrew Maitland
                          I have used both AVG and AVAST (at the same time) I can t see any noticeable difference with them running or not - I have a memory monitor and I don t see too
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 31, 2007
                            I have used both AVG and AVAST (at the same time) I can't see any
                            noticeable difference with them running or not - I have a memory monitor
                            and I don't see too much use. The big names seem to fill the AV with
                            bloat. PCGen loads at about the same speed... So, I'm interested in the
                            results of Joe's test.

                            joefrazierjr wrote:
                            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Tir Gwaith" <Tir.Gwaith@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> On 12/30/07, crazed_ape <darkadept_99@...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >>> I'm using "eTrust EZ Antivirus" by a company called Computer
                            >>> Associates, it's pretty obscure but it's free from my ISP. I did try
                            >>> excluding *.jar and *.class files from scans but it didn't help, the
                            >>> program has very limited configuration options. The "real-time"
                            >>> scanning feature apparently scans every file that is accessed,
                            >>>
                            >> Every file that is accessed? Like, all the different System files,
                            >> and all PCCs? Then when loading those, every .LST file? That would
                            >> cripple things.
                            >>
                            >> Side note: using McCaffee and Norton on different computers, I get
                            >> slowness... I'm still out looking for a good AV program that doesn't
                            >> eat memory. My one "safe" box without an AV program constantly
                            >> running is much more on the Zippy scale.
                            >>
                            >> --
                            >> Tir Gwaith
                            >> PCGen LST Chimp
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            > Yea, and thats what McCaffee and Norton do by default. On my work
                            > laptop the settings are all disabled, so I cannot change them. I
                            > have AVG (free edition) on my desktop but have not tried PCGen on it.
                            > I will try later today and let you know my results.
                            >
                            > Joe
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > PCGen's Release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                            > PCGen's Wiki: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/
                            > PCGen's Roadmap: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/Roadmap
                            > PCGen's Alpha Build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                            > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/
                            > PCGen's Data Help Grp: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            --
                            ~ Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                            ~ Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                            ~ Data Gibbon, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Lemur
                            "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Paul Grosse
                            I m using AVG, AVGST and Spybot on my desktop and don t notice any real slowdown. Paul Grosse Motorized Chassis Engineer Monaco Coach Corp. 606 Nelson s
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 2, 2008
                              I'm using AVG, AVGST and Spybot on my desktop and don't notice any real
                              slowdown.

                              Paul Grosse
                              Motorized Chassis Engineer
                              Monaco Coach Corp.
                              606 Nelson's Parkway
                              PO Box 465
                              Wakarusa, IN 46573
                              (800) 650-7337
                              (574) 862-7388
                            • joefrazierjr
                              ... Tested 3 times on 2 PC s each test. One running AVG Free edition version 7.5 AMD 4300 Dual Core 1MB ram or so: Average time to load to the Sources
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 3, 2008
                                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I have used both AVG and AVAST (at the same time) I can't see any
                                > noticeable difference with them running or not - I have a memory monitor
                                > and I don't see too much use. The big names seem to fill the AV with
                                > bloat. PCGen loads at about the same speed... So, I'm interested in the
                                > results of Joe's test.


                                Tested 3 times on 2 PC's each test. One running AVG Free edition
                                version 7.5 AMD 4300 Dual Core 1MB ram or so:

                                Average time to load to the Sources Screen:7 sec
                                Average time to load RSD->Campaign: 8 sec
                                Average time from clicking New PC to interactivity: 5 sec


                                ------------------------------

                                Second PC 2 GH laptop 2 GM Ram

                                With Antivirus running:
                                Average time to load to the Sources Screen:60 sec
                                Average time to load to the Splash Screen:35 sec
                                Average time to load RSD->Campaign: 12 sec
                                Average time from clicking New PC to interactivity: 9 sec

                                WITHOUT Antivirus running:
                                Average time to load to the Sources Screen:9 sec
                                Average time to load to the Splash Screen:6 sec
                                Average time to load RSD->Campaign: 12 sec
                                Average time from clicking New PC to interactivity: 7 sec

                                -----------------------

                                AV info is Network Associates Enterprise whatever, with On Access Scan
                                turned on. Unfortunatly, the second PC is a work computer and all the
                                AV stuff is not something I can modify. I can hack the registry, and
                                restart the services, but every time I connect to the corporate
                                network, it just resets the reg entries and our IT staff won't even
                                allow us to set sandbox directories that are immune to the on access
                                scanning(hence my sometimes reg hacks). Trying to run Eclipse on
                                this machine is a nightmare since I am a developer and use it
                                occasionally at work for some tools I work on. I just end up turning
                                off Virus Scan when I am working in order to get anything done.



                                Joe
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