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BoD log - 10/25/07

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  • Paul W. King
    [22:02] alright, i now have 10:01 EDT...James, you good to go? [22:02] I just realized again how long I ve been doing this.
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 24, 2007
      [22:02] <[PR_SB]Paul> alright, i now have 10:01 EDT...James, you good
      to go?
      [22:02] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> I just realized again how long I've been
      doing this. *shudder*
      [22:02] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Mind you if we do the OS cleanup, should
      we consider switching to (or adding support for) something like
      velocity
      [22:02] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Yep I'm good Paul
      [22:03] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Start with code?
      01[22:03] <[PR_SB]Paul> in that case, go ahead James
      [22:04] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> OK, we have 10 freqs scheduled for 5.14,
      and a totla of 43 bugs left (say 10 will be for future releases)
      [22:04] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> We got up to the 50 mark :(, but those
      have been pared down a bit since
      [22:05] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Most of the work has been around the
      abiltiies area - fixing the issues that have come up as the data team
      have started using the new features in earnest
      06[22:05] * [LM]Tir-Gwaith blushes
      [22:05] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Tom has continued the tidying up of the
      LST syntax and IIRC 6 of the remaining requests are to do with that
      effort
      [22:06] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> So I think we are still making good
      progress to 5.14, but it is a little further away than I orginally
      anticipated
      [22:06] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Any questions?
      [22:07] <[Content_SB]Frank> Not from me.
      [22:07] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> None here. Expect more feedback from me on
      Ability stuff... :P
      [22:08] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Fair enough! It's good to see it being
      used
      01[22:08] <[PR_SB]Paul> well, if James is done...Tom's up
      [22:09] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Okay, we have most of the items on LST token
      changes resolved
      [22:09] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Still need a vote on Equipment PROFICIENCY
      [22:09] <[Arch_SB]thpr>
      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/message/8006 is
      the start of that thread
      [22:10] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I need to back and review where we are with
      AUTO:FEAT clearing across ABILITY
      [22:10] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I know that's an open issue, but I got lost
      in travel & guests
      [22:10] <[Arch_SB]thpr> We also have an open issue (really code not
      arch) with CHOOSE and the trailing number
      [22:10] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> (I got lost on that one, too)
      [22:11] <[Arch_SB]thpr> seems that accidentally got removed from the
      code somewhere in the 5.10 era
      [22:11] <[Arch_SB]thpr> it will have to be put back in to support
      existing LST
      [22:11] <[Arch_SB]thpr> a side effect of that, removing COUNT= from
      CHOOSE is also up for vote
      [22:12] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I believe that is the extent of what I think
      needs to go through _experimental for 5.14
      [22:12] <[Arch_SB]thpr> The Wiki table on 5.13 is out of date, simply
      because I haven't been home or free on a weekend for over a month
      [22:13] <[Arch_SB]thpr> After mom visits this weekend, I may get a
      chance to update that and work on the 5.14 FREQs
      [22:13] <[Arch_SB]thpr> ... and an update of the Arch doc, which is
      probably also needed at this point
      [22:13] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I believe that's the important points on
      Arch, any questions?
      [22:14] <[Content_SB]Frank> Just a comment: Sorry about the votes. RL
      didn't leave me much time for PCGen this month. I will see to get
      them startet tomorrow.
      [22:14] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> None from me
      [22:16] <[Arch_SB]thpr> No worries, since there are FREQs waiting for
      me, nothing has been held up
      01[22:17] <[PR_SB]Paul> well, if Arch is done, let's move to Content
      [22:17] <[Content_SB]Frank> k
      [22:18] <[Content_SB]Frank> Sadly RL didn't leave me much time this
      month for PCGen, so I'm not fully back into the picture.
      [22:18] <[Content_SB]Frank> For that matter this report is a bit more
      superficial than usual.
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> Docs - Luckily Eric provided me with a
      report for that section, which I'm simply going to paste in now.
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> Doc 2nds Report
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> Doc Trackers Status as of 9/5/07 (5.14)
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> Doc FREQs Closed/New/Deleted/Open:
      23/11/2/11
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> Doc Bugs Closed/New/Deleted/Open: 10/3/0/8
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> Notable Tracker Items:
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> DBug #1726543, Undocumented CHOOSE tag
      syntax - Priority lowered
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> pending resolution on 6.0 CHOOSE Spec.
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> DFREQ #1789842, Add Rules Implementation
      Guide - 95% complete. Minor
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> content additions required in Priestoods
      page.
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> DFREQ #1761725, Combine Publisher
      Permissions and Sources Pages - 95%
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> complete. Reworking Permission Policy and
      Process info.
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> DFREQ #1754262, [Rules Implementation]
      Adding abilities via Skill
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> points - 95% complete. Minor content
      tweek required.
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> DFREQ #1721323, Clean up the Global KEY
      Tag File - I believe this one
      [22:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> is complete. Waiting for confirmation
      from fitz before closing.
      [22:20] <[Content_SB]Frank> OS Doc Trackers need some OS Monkey
      attention to make sure the
      [22:20] <[Content_SB]Frank> changes I have incorporated are accurate.
      [22:20] <[Content_SB]Frank> Work is currently not being done on the
      Treasure Generator and NPC
      [22:20] <[Content_SB]Frank> Generator documentation. Will tackle
      eventually.
      [22:20] <[Content_SB]Frank> Non-Tracker Items:
      [22:20] <[Content_SB]Frank> Working towards HTML style guide review
      and revision. This will
      [22:20] <[Content_SB]Frank> entail a review of the current style
      guide, including the css styles,
      [22:20] <[Content_SB]Frank> and a top to bottom review of the docs to
      ensure consistency.
      [22:20] <[Content_SB]Frank> As you can see, Eric needs input from an
      OS monkey for OS docs trackers. That probably needs to be input from
      Code, as we lack OS monkeys currently.
      [22:22] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I think the best plan on the OS Docs are to
      spend more time in Beta as we did for the LST tokens in the 5.11 cycle
      [22:22] <[Content_SB]Frank> Can somy Coder take a look at the
      trackers/documentation in question and give him feedback?
      [22:22] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Until that point, I want to be focused on
      code FREQs (at least my time)
      [22:22] <[Arch_SB]thpr> otherwise I'm gating the critical path 5.14
      [22:23] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> I can pull together the list of tracker
      numbers . . .
      [22:24] <[Content_SB]Frank> Sure, we can push that buck till beta, we
      just will need feedback at some time.
      [22:24] <[Content_SB]Frank> Moving on to OS
      [22:25] <[Content_SB]Frank> Eddy's Preview sheet went in. Looks real
      good to me, Eddy. :) Did the memory problems work out the latest
      changes?
      [22:26] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> much better. :)
      [22:26] <[Data_Second]mosat> it's better with the smaller graphics
      [22:26] <[Data_Second]mosat> but there are still issues, Aaron needs
      to look at that
      [22:27] <[Content_SB]Frank> Are you in contact with him about that?
      [22:27] <[Data_Second]mosat> he's aware, but I haven't seen him post
      in a while
      [22:28] <[Content_SB]Frank> if it takes longer, please make sure to
      tracker the problems, so they won't be lost. :)
      [22:28] <[Data_Second]mosat> I'm also tweaking the OS's for the
      Character Sheet tab so they look better
      [22:28] <[Data_Second]mosat> they need alot of work
      [22:28] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> yeah. I keep getting reported errors on
      those
      [22:29] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> I need to get a good log print and
      post/tracker it for you
      [22:29] <[Data_Second]mosat> and I'm also trying to keep an eye on
      what new stuff will need to be added for the Ability Object conversion
      [22:30] <[Data_Second]mosat> Yeah, there seems to be some formatting
      options the Character Sheet tab doesn't like
      [22:30] <[Data_Second]mosat> And it's also less forgiving with nested
      tables
      [22:31] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> gotcha
      [22:31] <[Content_SB]Frank> While we're at OS: Tir has worked on the
      Combined sheet. He must be a very brave man. I have worked on that
      sheet before, and I think it's a pig.Tir has asked if we have
      somebody with knowledge in Javascript who could take a look.
      [22:33] <[Content_SB]Frank> James or Tom, is there anybody with
      Javascript knowledge in the team? Until now, Kar was taking care of
      this.
      [22:34] <[Data_Second]mosat> Aaron does, he uses it in the OS's he
      made for the character sheet tab
      [22:34] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I don't
      [22:34] <[Arch_SB]thpr> but we can ask around if you can't get help
      from Aaron
      [22:34] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> I have enough Javascript to be
      dangerous :)
      [22:35] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Same here. So I try to avoid it for my own
      sanity. :p
      [22:35] <[Content_SB]Frank> That sheet is dangerous already ;P
      [22:35] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> VERY
      [22:35] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Worse than Prettylst.
      [22:35] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Yeah a post on the dev list might be
      worthwhile
      [22:35] <[Content_SB]Frank> k.
      [22:35] <[Content_SB]Frank> On to Data
      [22:35] <[Content_SB]Frank> Tir has been quite busy, especially among
      other things implementing ABILITY into the RSRD. He's currently
      working to give the prestige classes that treatment.
      [22:36] <[Content_SB]Frank> Tir, how far are you advanced there?
      [22:36] <[OGL]PaulG> Maybe hit the CMP & WotC boards also?
      [22:36] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Came across another hitch, in Horizon Walker.
      [22:36] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> I'll prob. have the prelim pass on the RSRD
      classes by next week
      [22:36] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> and then lots of feedback for James and Code
      Monkeys for needed improvements
      [22:37] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> I'm only going to do RSRD and SRD until the
      ABILITYCATEGORY definition is moved into a separate file.
      [22:38] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> And most are staying as SAs onto the OS for
      now
      [22:38] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Can't really go off of that until the OS's
      are all converted
      [22:38] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Eddy's started a good discussion on _exp for
      what we need.
      [22:39] <[Content_SB]Frank> We'll have to think about going Beta
      sometime. We should have 5.14 out before DnD 4.0 strikes.
      [22:40] <[Arch_SB]thpr> need to close the code FREQs I need for 6.0
      [22:40] <[Content_SB]Frank> I take it we need at least 4 weeks if not
      longer for the Alpha phase to continue?
      [22:40] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> yeah. We aren't going to be able to convert
      everything before Beta, or even stable. It is too big for that
      [22:40] <[Arch_SB]thpr> that's really the code gate, I think
      02[22:41] * [Code_SB]jdempsey (~jdempsey@...)
      Quit (toronto.on.ca.dal.net ninja.hub.dal.net)
      02[22:41] * @[CM]Zaister (~radermach@static-87-79-236-
      121.netcologne.de) Quit (toronto.on.ca.dal.net ninja.hub.dal.net)
      02[22:41] * [OGL]PaulG (~nylanfs@...-
      w.verizon.net) Quit (toronto.on.ca.dal.net ninja.hub.dal.net)
      02[22:41] * [Data_Second]mosat (~[Data_Sec@c-68-53-197-
      8.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) Quit (toronto.on.ca.dal.net ninja.hub.dal.net)
      02[22:41] * jfrazierjr (~none@...)
      Quit (toronto.on.ca.dal.net ninja.hub.dal.net)
      [22:41] <[Arch_SB]thpr> well crud
      01[22:41] <[PR_SB]Paul> is it just me, or did we lose a bunch oc
      people?
      [22:41] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> yeah. netsplit
      [22:41] <[Content_SB]Frank> Not a good time for a netsplit
      [22:41] <[Arch_SB]thpr> a who what?
      01[22:41] <[PR_SB]Paul> yeah, that's a new term for me as well
      [22:42] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> IRC is run on multiple nodes
      [22:42] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> some of the nodes stopped talking to each
      other
      [22:42] <[Content_SB]Frank> The Dalnet servers have disconnected,
      looks like they were on a different one.
      [22:43] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> It is a pretty big issue with dalnet.
      Haven't seen it on freenode since last week when Zaister set it up,
      but I also haven't seen large usage over their yet either
      [22:43] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Is there anything that can be done?
      [22:43] <[Arch_SB]thpr> or is this an exercise in patience?
      [22:44] <[Content_SB]Frank> Usually they should come back
      automatically after a couple of minutes, but sometimes it takes longer
      [22:45] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> someone usually goes on IM so we can get a
      picture on both sides of the split, and then figure out if a
      netburst/sync will happen soon
      [22:45] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> at least, we were doing that a few years ago
      when I attended these things regularly
      03[22:45] * [CM]Zaister (~radermach@static-87-79-236-
      121.netcologne.de) has joined #pcgen
      03[22:45] * [Code_SB]jdempsey (~jdempsey@...)
      has joined #pcgen
      03[22:45] * [Data_Second]mosat (~[Data_Sec@c-68-53-197-
      8.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) has joined #pcgen
      03[22:45] * jfrazierjr (~none@...) has
      joined #pcgen
      03[22:45] * [OGL]PaulG (~nylanfs@...-
      w.verizon.net) has joined #pcgen
      03[22:45] * ninja.hub.dal.net sets mode: +o [CM]Zaister
      [22:45] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> And we sync'd. :)
      [22:45] <[OGL]PaulG> Yea they are back!
      [22:45] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Other way around. :P
      [22:46] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> We just had a discussion on netsplits
      [22:46] <[OGL]PaulG> Last we saw was <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Can't really go
      off of that until the OS's are all converted
      [22:47] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> [21:37] And most are staying as SAs
      onto the OS for now
      [22:47] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Can't really go off of that until the
      OS's are all converted
      [22:47] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Eddy's started a good discussion on
      _exp for what we need.
      [22:47] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> [21:38] <[Content_SB]Frank> We'll
      have to think about going Beta sometime. We should have 5.14 out
      before DnD 4.0 strikes.
      [22:47] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> [21:39] <[Arch_SB]thpr> need to close
      the code FREQs I need for 6.0
      [22:47] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> <[Content_SB]Frank> I take it we
      need at least 4 weeks if not longer for the Alpha phase to continue?
      [22:47] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> yeah. We
      aren't going to be able to convert everything before Beta, or even
      stable. It is too big for that
      [22:47] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> <[Arch_SB]thpr> that's really the
      code gate, I think
      [22:47] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> then we saw the split
      [22:48] <[Content_SB]Frank> So shall we say we continue Alpha for at
      least 4 weeks, and take another look 2 weeks from now?
      [22:49] <[Arch_SB]thpr> sounds reasonable to me
      [22:49] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Yes that sounds like a reasonable approach
      [22:50] <[Content_SB]Frank> OK, then let me finish Data with a thank
      you to Maredudd (Eric) for being a great help with replacing quite a
      few deprecated tags in our data files.
      [22:50] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Joe is now helping a bit with Prettylst.
      [22:51] <[Content_SB]Frank> Oh, almost forgot - CMP Data support
      [22:51] <[Content_SB]Frank> Still a no go. I last mailed Chris on
      October 2nd about it, but didn't get a reply from him. I should have
      followed that up, but RL's been mean on me lately.
      [22:52] <[Content_SB]Frank> I feel bad about having the volunteers
      wait so long.
      [22:53] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Yea, I'd also like to know our code efforts
      to bridge 5.x and keep CMP users in the loop will mean something
      [22:53] <[Content_SB]Frank> I think Chris has RL problems as well.
      I'll try to contact him again.
      [22:54] <[Content_SB]Frank> I think that finishes my report.
      [22:54] <[OGL]PaulG> He got a promotion at his dayjob :)
      [22:54] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> nice for him
      01[22:55] <[PR_SB]Paul> any questions for Frank?
      [22:55] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> None from me
      [22:55] <[Arch_SB]thpr> no
      01[22:57] <[PR_SB]Paul> alright, moving to PR then
      01[22:57] <[PR_SB]Paul> i've posted to ENW and Mortality about the
      new alpha release
      01[22:58] <[PR_SB]Paul> and now i'll hand it over to my capable 2nd
      for the PL report
      01[22:58] <[PR_SB]Paul> :)
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> L 2nds Report
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> New Permissions Provided/Confirmed (New
      Publishers):
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd>  Whitesilver Publishing - Sovereign Stone
      3.0 and 3.5 - Full Permission, Publisher Review Required.
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd>  Hart Felt Productions - The Kandris Seal;
      Steam, Savants and the Kandris Seal; Capers, Cliffhangers and the
      Kandris Seal - Full Permission, Publisher Review Required.
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd>  Margaret Weis Productions - Castlemourn
      Campaign Setting - Full Permission, Publisher Review Required
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd>  3 Sages Games - Rules of Wor - Full
      Permission, No Review Require (Seeking documantary support for these
      permissions.)
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> New Permissions Provided/Confirmed
      (Existing Publishers):
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd>  AEG - Dragons*, Dungeons, Evil, Undead,
      War, Empire, Feats, Good, Magic, Mercenaries, Toolbox, Secrets,
      Monster, Relics, Guilds, Gods, Wilds, Adventure I, Adventure II,
      River of Blood - Full Permission, No Review Required, 3e and 35e.
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd>  EN Publishing - Elements of Magic,
      Lyceian Arcana - OGL+Title, No Review Required.
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> Publisher Cantact Made, Waiting for
      Decision/Confirmation:
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd>  Paizo Publishing - Pathfinder Series,
      GamesMastery Series -  OGL+Title (Verbal permission only. Have
      requested Full Permission be considered as well as clarification on
      review requirement.)
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd>  Privateer Press - Iron Kingdom Character
      Guide - In talks with Wolfs Lair/Hero Labs.
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd>  Swords and Sorcery - Relics and Rituals,
      3e and 35e
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> Miscellaneous Contacts:
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd>  T20-PCGEN Y!Group - Initial contact with
      mild interest in seeing T20 get picked back up. Will pursue contact
      with QLI.
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd>  Silven Publishing - Clarification of
      Section 15 issue in 'Curses'. Clarified 'sponsorship' considering
      Silven is closing its doors in December.
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd>  Battlefield Press - Awaiting reply from
      BP on sponsorship proposal.
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> Miscellaneous Items:
      [22:58] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> CD of PCGen 5.12.1 produced by Robert Ward
      and placed on PCGen download site.
      [22:59] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> I got confirmation from Privateer that
      Hero Labs is looking for exclusive deals . . .
      01[23:00] <[PR_SB]Paul> not surprised about that...i think Campaign
      Suite wanted that as well
      [23:00] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> yep
      [23:01] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> it helps solidify market-share
      [23:01] <[OGL]PaulG> Eric, did was Beaver able to find the original
      permissions from Privateer?
      [23:01] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> A note about AEG, I got a big box of
      books from them yesterday . . .
      [23:01] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> Ten or eleven, filling out the rest of
      their One Title dource books . . .
      01[23:02] <[PR_SB]Paul> cool
      01[23:02] <[PR_SB]Paul> just wish i had time to do anything about
      that largesse
      [23:02] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> Not yet. I will drop him another line to
      see if he had any luck. Lst time I talked to him he said he'd had a
      drive failure and had lost a bunch of emails . . .
      [23:03] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> I'll eventually work out a better way to
      save the documentation, but for no I'm forwarding it all to the BoD
      list . . .
      [23:04] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> Just in case my drive fails hard . . . as
      opposed to the soft failures I've had the last three months . . .
      01[23:07] <[PR_SB]Paul> any questions for PL
      [23:07] <[Arch_SB]thpr> no
      [23:07] <[Content_SB]Frank> So, Eric will you have all those AEG
      sources coded up in time for 5.14? :P
      [23:07] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> :)
      [23:07] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> uh uh uh . .. :-)
      [23:07] <[Data_Second]mosat> Just a comment: You're doing a fantastic
      job Eric!
      [23:07] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Hollar if you need help with tricky stuff in
      those, Eric
      [23:08] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> I did pick out one I think I want to
      do . . .
      [23:08] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> Will do!
      [23:08] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> Thanks Eddy!
      [23:08] <[OGL]PaulG> If I remember right most of those are fairly
      simple. No really odd mechanics. And mostly fluff
      [23:08] <[OGL]PaulG> Do we have any Data Monkey's that need more work
      though? :)
      [23:08] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> I wouldn't say mostly fluff, but not a
      massive crunch either
      [23:09] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Agreed. With the permissions - do we have
      those stored in the BoD file section? Having them under a specific
      folder and organised by publisher would make them easy to grab when
      we need them next
      [23:09] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> Rught now the permissions have all been
      forwared tdirectly to the BoD list.
      [23:10] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> Again, I'll work out a better way
      eventually . . .
      01[23:11] <[PR_SB]Paul> and as a final PR note, my free time, like
      most other's, has been in rather short supply recently
      01[23:12] <[PR_SB]Paul> in case folks didn't know, i've gone back to
      school to pursue a PhD in Organizational Learning and Leadership
      01[23:12] <[PR_SB]Paul> 3 years of classes (including this one) and
      then 1 year for that funny paper thing
      [23:12] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> At least the email archive is searchable,
      so that is a start, but any attachments aren;t stored, so that's
      something to watch out for
      [23:12] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Good luck Paul
      01[23:12] <[PR_SB]Paul> i fear my spare free time is going to become
      close to non-existant in the next year or so
      [23:13] <[OGL]PaulG> So a professional catherder?
      01[23:13] <[PR_SB]Paul> having said that, i'd like to stay involved,
      but am not sure if i should maintain the full duties i currently have
      [23:13] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I thought sleep was optional for grad
      students?
      01[23:13] <[PR_SB]Paul> i have 2 kids as well Tom...sleep is non-
      existant :)
      [23:14] <[Arch_SB]thpr> oh... yea.
      01[23:14] <[PR_SB]Paul> which leads nicely into discussion item #1
      01[23:14] <[PR_SB]Paul> Who is the next Chair, and what should their
      duties entail
      [23:15] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Second issue first
      [23:15] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Kar was doing a lot of new project
      coordination - web, integration with other open source projects, etc.
      [23:15] <[OGL]PaulG> I'm thinking mainly just keeping track of
      everything and making sure things don't slip through the cracks
      [23:16] <[Arch_SB]thpr> That could be delegated, and some of it may
      be that he was also on the Admin team - hard to separate what hat he
      had on
      [23:16] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I also think the "new member greeting" and
      occasional recruiting he did was great
      [23:16] <[Arch_SB]thpr> (adding to PaulG's comment)
      [23:18] <[Arch_SB]thpr> The silence either indicates there isn't
      anything else, or everyone had their dessert and fell asleep
      [23:19] <[Data_Second]mosat> zzz, huh? Oh he did those nice team
      email reports too
      [23:19] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> I don't know what I can contribute to the
      discussion. :)
      [23:19] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> I'm still here. I think you have a lot of
      it covered there Tom. No doubt there wil be other things, but I think
      we can work with that list
      01[23:20] <[PR_SB]Paul> that does sound like a good list to me
      [23:20] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Also scheduling the meetings, and though
      he was seldom able to do so due to time zones, chairing the meetings
      [23:21] <[OGL]PaulG> What we need is somebody that is EXTREMELY
      organized and can keep the rest of us on track
      [23:21] <[Arch_SB]thpr> uhh, maybe
      [23:22] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I was just thinking about organizations and
      what the chair does, and I think the HR aspect is more important than
      the operations aspect
      [23:22] <[Arch_SB]thpr> (to use business terms)
      [23:24] <[Arch_SB]thpr> then again, I'm probably one of the newer
      folks here, and I haven't been part of the project when Kar wasn't
      chair, so I may not know how bad it can get :)
      01[23:24] <[PR_SB]Paul> Paul's comment about herding cats comes to
      mind :)
      [23:25] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> The HR aspect is very important - its one
      aspect that I've been slipping in with the code team sadly.
      [23:25] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> For our FOSS team, HR is more important than
      operations. The individual teams do well on their own for
      accomplishing goals
      [23:25] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> long term goals, or organization, can be
      hashed out by the Board. Just takes a little longer.
      [23:27] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Another thing we should consider is the
      term of appointment.
      [23:28] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> It might be easier for people to
      volunteer for if it were for say a 2 month term and then we ask for
      volunteers
      01[23:28] <[PR_SB]Paul> 2 months isn't a very long period of time
      though
      01[23:29] <[PR_SB]Paul> i can see the pros and cons of terms and
      open-ended appointments
      [23:29] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> No it isn't long. That's just a first cut
      suggestion - perhaps three months would be better.
      [23:29] <[Arch_SB]thpr> sounds like a good dissertation topic ;)
      [23:30] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> The main reason I suggested it is that
      noone has yet volunteered for the position, which indicates that we
      are going to have to make some compromises to get someone to fill it
      01[23:30] <[PR_SB]Paul> so, can i nominate Tom because of that silly
      comment? :)
      01[23:31] <[PR_SB]Paul> but seriously, that's probably a good point
      James
      [23:32] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> PAss the batan around until someone floats
      to the top?
      [23:32] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> May I suggest something?
      [23:32] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> From what I am seeing, everyone is
      getting quite busy with RL currently, so making the commitment less
      scary is an important thing
      [23:32] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Heck, i'll do it anyway.
      [23:32] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Yep
      [23:32] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> We need someone without the RL constraints,
      especially ppl here, who already have other hats.
      [23:33] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Trying to time-share duties along with the
      current RL crisis going on, will just make both positions suffer
      [23:33] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Time to look for fresher blood?
      [23:34] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Do you have a particular target in mind?
      [23:34] <[Arch_SB]thpr> or just thinking out loud?
      [23:34] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Nope, and I wasn't volunteering (I don't
      want to get forced into it for having the idea).
      [23:34] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> I'm just suggesting thinking outside the box.
      [23:35] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Not a bad idea Tir
      01[23:35] <[PR_SB]Paul> which brings us back to "who wants the
      position" piece
      01[23:36] <[PR_SB]Paul> to my knowledge, we've had the following
      Chairs: Bryan (duh), Beaver, Me, Kar
      [23:36] <[OGL]PaulG> How about posting on the main list and get
      volunteer's?
      [23:36] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Currently I am fully committed, but mid
      next year it might be a possibility for me
      [23:37] <[Data_Second]mosat> We still need to define the chairs
      specific duties, so far we've just made a list of what Kar did
      [23:37] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> True
      01[23:38] <[PR_SB]Paul> Duties of the Chair: 1) Any duty that gets
      assigned :)
      01[23:38] <[PR_SB]Paul> but seriously
      [23:38] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> I believe what has been listed so far
      works well for the duties of the Chair, but then I've only benn part
      of the team while Kar was Chair . . .
      01[23:38] <[PR_SB]Paul> 1) Chair the meetings of the BoD
      [23:38] <[Data_Second]mosat> so why does no one want that job ;)
      01[23:39] <[PR_SB]Paul> 2) Help recruit and welcome new members to
      the various teams
      [23:39] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Apparently Eddy never _really_ tried to herd
      cats
      01[23:39] <[PR_SB]Paul> 3) Coordinate efforts between teams for
      cross-design issues
      [23:39] <[Arch_SB]thpr> 3a) ensure domestic tranquility
      01[23:40] <[PR_SB]Paul> 4) Serve as impartial witness when conflicts
      arise between team members
      [23:40] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> 4) tracker and Wiki admin (at least, making
      sure those get maintained)
      [23:40] <[Arch_SB]thpr> no, 4 is the admin SB
      [23:40] <[Arch_SB]thpr> uhh, Tir's 4
      [23:40] <[Arch_SB]thpr> my 2c anyway
      [23:40] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> We have one of those?
      01[23:40] <[PR_SB]Paul> yes, Kar was also the Admin SB
      [23:40] <[Arch_SB]thpr> no, but we need to fill that indepdently of
      the chair
      [23:40] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> Or do we have 2 chairs to fill?
      [23:41] <[Arch_SB]thpr> 2 positions to fill
      [23:41] <[LM]Tir-Gwaith> oh boy.
      [23:42] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Should we table that for people to ponder and
      consider if we want to recruit externally?
      [23:43] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Lets leave nominations form the BoD open
      for a week and then we should recruit externally
      [23:44] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> We should try and keep the process moving
      [23:44] <[Arch_SB]thpr> that's fair
      01[23:46] <[PR_SB]Paul> so, do we have a good frame work for the
      duties
      [23:46] <[Arch_SB]thpr> 1-4 of your list
      01[23:48] <[PR_SB]Paul> so, shall we post these duties and seek
      volunteers?
      [23:48] <[Arch_SB]thpr> per James suggestion , we have the duties,
      and it will be on the BoD list for the next week
      [23:48] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I agree with that path
      01[23:49] <[PR_SB]Paul> so, have another meeting next Wednesday?
      [23:49] <[Arch_SB]thpr> no, that's Halloween.
      [23:49] <[Arch_SB]thpr> we just need a PR person to post it
      externally on Nov 1 if no resolution has come in the BoD as to a
      nominee or named chair
      01[23:50] <[PR_SB]Paul> well, i'm leaving early morning on Nov 1 for
      my brother's wedding
      [23:50] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Wednesday Nov 7 for next meeting
      [23:50] <[Arch_SB]thpr> ok
      01[23:50] <[PR_SB]Paul> works for me
      01[23:51] <[PR_SB]Paul> were there any other issues for the open
      floor?
      [23:51] <[Arch_SB]thpr> well, how are we handling the Admin SB
      [23:51] <[Arch_SB]thpr> since that came up in parallel to the Chair
      discussion
      [23:51] <[Arch_SB]thpr> do we want to ponder that for a week as well?
      [23:51] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Normal process is to seek nominations
      form the admin team.
      [23:51] <[DOC-PL]Maredudd> We announce both positions . . .
      [23:52] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I'm not sure we want to throw out names in a
      public log, so I think it probably belongs on the BoD list
      [23:52] <[Arch_SB]thpr> only fair to people who may want to turn it
      down
      [23:52] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Yep, that's fair
      [23:52] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Okay, so the last issue is the Web team
      [23:53] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I think that's the same boat - I think that
      deserves a 2nd, but again, a privacy issue on potential nominees
      [23:53] <[Arch_SB]thpr> or not necessarily the *last* issue, but
      another issue
      01[23:53] <[PR_SB]Paul> isn't the web team part of the Admin team?
      [23:54] <[Arch_SB]thpr> good point
      [23:54] <[Arch_SB]thpr> so that may or may not be solved by an Admin
      SB
      [23:54] <[Arch_SB]thpr> we should delay that discussion
      01[23:54] <[PR_SB]Paul> and its almost midnight here
      [23:55] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I don't know of anything else
      [23:55] <[Arch_SB]thpr> ... that needs to be covered
      [23:56] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Given the change in daylight savings we
      should be able to have the next meeting a bit earlier, which I am
      sure will be welcome
      01[23:56] <[PR_SB]Paul> well, if nothing from anyone else, we should
      bring this meeting to a close
      [23:57] <[Content_SB]Frank> Agreed. I'm almost asleep already.
      [23:58] <[Arch_SB]thpr> y
      [23:58] <[OGL]PaulG> Me also
      [23:58] <[OGL]PaulG> PK have log?
      [23:58] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> night everyone
      [23:58] <[Data_Second]mosat> bye all
      [23:58] <[Content_SB]Frank> night all.
      [23:58] <[Arch_SB]thpr> night
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