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Re: GMGen Initiative tab table issue

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  • graham8516
    ... interest in ... before ... some more ... all ... monster ... GMGen ... harder ... keep ... be ... clean ... just ... damage, etc) ... is ... my ... A big
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 28, 2007
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      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "joefrazierjr" <jfrazierjr@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@> wrote:
      > >
      > > One of our newer members, Joe Frazier Jr., has expressed an
      interest in
      > > becoming a code monkey and devoting some time addressing the GMGen
      > > plug-in. He's currently working on a data set 'Elements of Magic -
      > > Revised' to learn a basic understanding of the 'lst language'
      before
      > > diving in with both feet. So, unless things change, I'd expect
      some more
      > > TLC in the near future. I think that will make two dedicated code
      > > monkeys working on this Plug-in.
      >
      >
      > Thanks Andrew.
      >
      >
      >
      > > graham8516 wrote:
      > > > I'm also glad. I've been using it for some time too. RPTools is
      all
      > > > well and good but doesn't come close to the integrated kill a
      monster
      > > > and then apply the experience to the party functionality that
      GMGen
      > > > has. I'm still going to use it, it just makes things a lot
      harder
      > > > since I have to remember who has moved to what initiative to
      keep
      > > > track of things. Damage tracking is working as is experience.
      > > >
      >
      > In the interest of full disclosure, I am also working on doing a few
      > light code patches for RPTools's Inittool. In many ways, their
      > software is far more advanced and very focused on initiative. They
      > have a developer working on adding a character generator which will
      be
      > integrated with inittool, but it is not there yet.
      >
      > On of the things that I like most about the inittools UI is the
      clean
      > ness, whereas the GMGen looks "slapped together". Unfortunately,
      > since it is such a broad based tool meant to support multiple game
      > types, not just d20 stuff, a good amount of low level details are
      just
      > not there yet. In the next release, Jay is targeting getting
      > scripting support into the tool so that events (such as "casting a
      > spell") can trigger things to happen such as roll hits/assign
      damage, etc)
      >
      > The main reason I will be taking a look at perhaps working on GMGen
      is
      > to try to make 1 stop shopping as many d20 players have with GMGenie
      > (but have to pay for!) instead of having multiple disparate
      > applications and having to learn config/scripting/etc for each...
      >
      > And of course, all of this depends on how much free time I have on
      my
      > hands....
      >

      A big thumbs up for this.

      Tracking experience through the course of an adventure is a real pain
      to do by hand and is something that GMGen does very well. It is the
      integrated management stuff that I really like. Let GMGen do the
      admin stuff so I can concentrate on the rest.

      What I generally do it set up the encounters before hand but only as
      far as HP and CR. HP tracking is used for all the NPCs rather than
      endless scribbling on bits of paper. The CR is used for the XP
      distribution afterwards. The other important part for me is round
      tracking for spell duration, especially for those really long combats.

      As mentioned the biggest struggle I have is handling readied and
      delayed actions. Without being able to move initiatives around it
      becomes very tricky.

      I've never used the things like AC and doing the hit rolls since I
      find that AC and hit rolls vary too much, especially at higher
      levels. Same with the saving throw functions.

      The other things I do use are the distance charts, name generator
      (since my players always ask that awkward what is their name to the
      unnamed insignificant NPC) and random treasure.

      Graham
    • joefrazierjr
      ... InitTools does does an excellent job at doing this. This is one of the many reasons I like that tool. The unfortunate fact is that doing this and doing
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 28, 2007
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        > As mentioned the biggest struggle I have is handling readied and
        > delayed actions. Without being able to move initiatives around it
        > becomes very tricky.

        InitTools does does an excellent job at doing this. This is one of
        the many reasons I like that tool. The unfortunate fact is that
        doing this and doing "correctly" is not an easy task. It can be done
        fairly easily in code in a simplistic manner, but the problem is
        getting all of the odd cases correct and making the UI clean and
        initiative and that's where most tools fall short.

        One of the things Jay is doing with Inittool is adding scripting
        support with the goal that when a certain timer begins (think the
        start of a spell being cast) you can set an expiration time in rounds.
        This would allow effects such as 'I cast "freeze person", and they
        are "paralyzed" for 3 rounds' and it will just do the right thing.
        ie, the characters/monster's affected by the spell would have their
        initiative order skipped for each of three full rounds.

        Inittool is "much" further along on stuff like this, but behind on the
        character generation/integration part, where as PCGen/GMGen is the
        exact opposite.

        I know my gaming group will be using both InitTool and PCGen for the
        next few months at least until GMGen catches up in regards to
        initiative tracking.
      • graham8516
        ... done ... rounds. ... the ... Personally I would just be happy with being able to change the initiative number in the cell whenever needed and that player
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 2, 2007
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          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "joefrazierjr" <jfrazierjr@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > > As mentioned the biggest struggle I have is handling readied and
          > > delayed actions. Without being able to move initiatives around it
          > > becomes very tricky.
          >
          > InitTools does does an excellent job at doing this. This is one of
          > the many reasons I like that tool. The unfortunate fact is that
          > doing this and doing "correctly" is not an easy task. It can be
          done
          > fairly easily in code in a simplistic manner, but the problem is
          > getting all of the odd cases correct and making the UI clean and
          > initiative and that's where most tools fall short.
          >
          > One of the things Jay is doing with Inittool is adding scripting
          > support with the goal that when a certain timer begins (think the
          > start of a spell being cast) you can set an expiration time in
          rounds.
          > This would allow effects such as 'I cast "freeze person", and they
          > are "paralyzed" for 3 rounds' and it will just do the right thing.
          > ie, the characters/monster's affected by the spell would have their
          > initiative order skipped for each of three full rounds.
          >
          > Inittool is "much" further along on stuff like this, but behind on
          the
          > character generation/integration part, where as PCGen/GMGen is the
          > exact opposite.
          >
          > I know my gaming group will be using both InitTool and PCGen for the
          > next few months at least until GMGen catches up in regards to
          > initiative tracking.
          >
          Personally I would just be happy with being able to change the
          initiative number in the cell whenever needed and that player moves
          to the appropriate point in the round.

          Another feature I remembered is if you add a new combatant once
          initiative has stared then they get an init of 0. And they get
          skipped when you step through the round. Ideally when added they
          should become part of the round.
        • Devon Jones
          Sorry, I know I am not around much, but I noticed a thread of a number of Initiative bugs. Could anyone summarize the bulk of the big issues? I can try to
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 2, 2007
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            Sorry, I know I am not around much, but I noticed a thread of a number
            of Initiative bugs.

            Could anyone summarize the bulk of the big issues? I can try to
            actually look at this this weekend.

            Devon

            graham8516 wrote:
            >
            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > "joefrazierjr" <jfrazierjr@...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > > As mentioned the biggest struggle I have is handling readied and
            > > > delayed actions. Without being able to move initiatives around it
            > > > becomes very tricky.
            > >
            > > InitTools does does an excellent job at doing this. This is one of
            > > the many reasons I like that tool. The unfortunate fact is that
            > > doing this and doing "correctly" is not an easy task. It can be
            > done
            > > fairly easily in code in a simplistic manner, but the problem is
            > > getting all of the odd cases correct and making the UI clean and
            > > initiative and that's where most tools fall short.
            > >
            > > One of the things Jay is doing with Inittool is adding scripting
            > > support with the goal that when a certain timer begins (think the
            > > start of a spell being cast) you can set an expiration time in
            > rounds.
            > > This would allow effects such as 'I cast "freeze person", and they
            > > are "paralyzed" for 3 rounds' and it will just do the right thing.
            > > ie, the characters/monster's affected by the spell would have their
            > > initiative order skipped for each of three full rounds.
            > >
            > > Inittool is "much" further along on stuff like this, but behind on
            > the
            > > character generation/integration part, where as PCGen/GMGen is the
            > > exact opposite.
            > >
            > > I know my gaming group will be using both InitTool and PCGen for the
            > > next few months at least until GMGen catches up in regards to
            > > initiative tracking.
            > >
            > Personally I would just be happy with being able to change the
            > initiative number in the cell whenever needed and that player moves
            > to the appropriate point in the round.
            >
            > Another feature I remembered is if you add a new combatant once
            > initiative has stared then they get an init of 0. And they get
            > skipped when you step through the round. Ideally when added they
            > should become part of the round.
            >
            >
          • kevin_fernandes01453
            Hi Devon, I don t have full access at the moment to get a comprehensive list, if someone else does not post one for you before I can later tonight I will try
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 2, 2007
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              Hi Devon,
              I don't have full access at the moment to get a comprehensive list, if
              someone else does not post one for you before I can later tonight I
              will try to get one fore you.

              The overall issues seems to be with the table entries not updating
              correctly, type in a value and it does not take, or sorting etc. What
              I have seen in my own use and testing is, for instance, in-place
              editing in one field of a particular row, updates a different field in
              different row. Quickly doing a debug run during one of these updates
              I get an out of bounds exception (I don't remember off hand where
              though). It looks like the table is somehow out of sync with the
              underlying data structure.

              Sorry its not more detailed, I'll see what I can do later. I was
              going to start working on some of these but real life is taking its
              toll on spare time lately :)

              Kevin F.
              (Code Lemur)

              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Devon Jones <soulcatcher@...> wrote:
              >
              > Sorry, I know I am not around much, but I noticed a thread of a number
              > of Initiative bugs.
              >
              > Could anyone summarize the bulk of the big issues? I can try to
              > actually look at this this weekend.
              >
              > Devon
              >
              > graham8516 wrote:
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