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Re: [pcgen] Re: GMGen Initiative tab table issue

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  • Eddy Anthony
    ... I created the InitTool export sheet and I use InitTool and MapTool pretty heavily with my current gaming group. I do plan on keeping up with Jay s progress
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 27, 2007
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      joefrazierjr wrote:
      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Michael J. Prentice"
      > <michaeljprentice@...> wrote:
      >
      >>> instead of having multiple disparate
      >>> applications and having to learn config/scripting/etc for each...
      >>>
      >>
      >> This is exactly why I'm hoping GMGen gets attention soon. I've spent a
      >> lot of time customizing PCGen to do my Homebrew stuff. I'm not looking
      >> forward to having to redo it all in InitTools again.
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > On the good news front, my understanding is that there is an export OS
      > that saves in InitTool's format, so as long as that is kept up to date
      > with Jay's(inittools primary developer) changes, it should be fairly
      > simple to do the export from PCGen->Import to Inittools.
      >
      > Perhaps one of the OS monkeys can elaborate more on any progress made
      > to support Inittools new version currently under development(release
      > date TDB).
      >

      I created the InitTool export sheet and I use InitTool and MapTool
      pretty heavily with my current gaming group. I do plan on keeping up
      with Jay's progress although at the moment I can't really do anything.
      The latest InitTool uses Java 6 and since I'm on a Mac that's not yet
      available to me. Should be with the next OS release so I don't see a
      problem getting the sheet up to date for our next production release.

      --
      ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
      ~ PCGen BoD, Data Content Second, Doc Chimp, OS Tamarin
    • graham8516
      ... interest in ... before ... some more ... all ... monster ... GMGen ... harder ... keep ... be ... clean ... just ... damage, etc) ... is ... my ... A big
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 28, 2007
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        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "joefrazierjr" <jfrazierjr@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@> wrote:
        > >
        > > One of our newer members, Joe Frazier Jr., has expressed an
        interest in
        > > becoming a code monkey and devoting some time addressing the GMGen
        > > plug-in. He's currently working on a data set 'Elements of Magic -
        > > Revised' to learn a basic understanding of the 'lst language'
        before
        > > diving in with both feet. So, unless things change, I'd expect
        some more
        > > TLC in the near future. I think that will make two dedicated code
        > > monkeys working on this Plug-in.
        >
        >
        > Thanks Andrew.
        >
        >
        >
        > > graham8516 wrote:
        > > > I'm also glad. I've been using it for some time too. RPTools is
        all
        > > > well and good but doesn't come close to the integrated kill a
        monster
        > > > and then apply the experience to the party functionality that
        GMGen
        > > > has. I'm still going to use it, it just makes things a lot
        harder
        > > > since I have to remember who has moved to what initiative to
        keep
        > > > track of things. Damage tracking is working as is experience.
        > > >
        >
        > In the interest of full disclosure, I am also working on doing a few
        > light code patches for RPTools's Inittool. In many ways, their
        > software is far more advanced and very focused on initiative. They
        > have a developer working on adding a character generator which will
        be
        > integrated with inittool, but it is not there yet.
        >
        > On of the things that I like most about the inittools UI is the
        clean
        > ness, whereas the GMGen looks "slapped together". Unfortunately,
        > since it is such a broad based tool meant to support multiple game
        > types, not just d20 stuff, a good amount of low level details are
        just
        > not there yet. In the next release, Jay is targeting getting
        > scripting support into the tool so that events (such as "casting a
        > spell") can trigger things to happen such as roll hits/assign
        damage, etc)
        >
        > The main reason I will be taking a look at perhaps working on GMGen
        is
        > to try to make 1 stop shopping as many d20 players have with GMGenie
        > (but have to pay for!) instead of having multiple disparate
        > applications and having to learn config/scripting/etc for each...
        >
        > And of course, all of this depends on how much free time I have on
        my
        > hands....
        >

        A big thumbs up for this.

        Tracking experience through the course of an adventure is a real pain
        to do by hand and is something that GMGen does very well. It is the
        integrated management stuff that I really like. Let GMGen do the
        admin stuff so I can concentrate on the rest.

        What I generally do it set up the encounters before hand but only as
        far as HP and CR. HP tracking is used for all the NPCs rather than
        endless scribbling on bits of paper. The CR is used for the XP
        distribution afterwards. The other important part for me is round
        tracking for spell duration, especially for those really long combats.

        As mentioned the biggest struggle I have is handling readied and
        delayed actions. Without being able to move initiatives around it
        becomes very tricky.

        I've never used the things like AC and doing the hit rolls since I
        find that AC and hit rolls vary too much, especially at higher
        levels. Same with the saving throw functions.

        The other things I do use are the distance charts, name generator
        (since my players always ask that awkward what is their name to the
        unnamed insignificant NPC) and random treasure.

        Graham
      • joefrazierjr
        ... InitTools does does an excellent job at doing this. This is one of the many reasons I like that tool. The unfortunate fact is that doing this and doing
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 28, 2007
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          > As mentioned the biggest struggle I have is handling readied and
          > delayed actions. Without being able to move initiatives around it
          > becomes very tricky.

          InitTools does does an excellent job at doing this. This is one of
          the many reasons I like that tool. The unfortunate fact is that
          doing this and doing "correctly" is not an easy task. It can be done
          fairly easily in code in a simplistic manner, but the problem is
          getting all of the odd cases correct and making the UI clean and
          initiative and that's where most tools fall short.

          One of the things Jay is doing with Inittool is adding scripting
          support with the goal that when a certain timer begins (think the
          start of a spell being cast) you can set an expiration time in rounds.
          This would allow effects such as 'I cast "freeze person", and they
          are "paralyzed" for 3 rounds' and it will just do the right thing.
          ie, the characters/monster's affected by the spell would have their
          initiative order skipped for each of three full rounds.

          Inittool is "much" further along on stuff like this, but behind on the
          character generation/integration part, where as PCGen/GMGen is the
          exact opposite.

          I know my gaming group will be using both InitTool and PCGen for the
          next few months at least until GMGen catches up in regards to
          initiative tracking.
        • graham8516
          ... done ... rounds. ... the ... Personally I would just be happy with being able to change the initiative number in the cell whenever needed and that player
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 2, 2007
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            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "joefrazierjr" <jfrazierjr@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > > As mentioned the biggest struggle I have is handling readied and
            > > delayed actions. Without being able to move initiatives around it
            > > becomes very tricky.
            >
            > InitTools does does an excellent job at doing this. This is one of
            > the many reasons I like that tool. The unfortunate fact is that
            > doing this and doing "correctly" is not an easy task. It can be
            done
            > fairly easily in code in a simplistic manner, but the problem is
            > getting all of the odd cases correct and making the UI clean and
            > initiative and that's where most tools fall short.
            >
            > One of the things Jay is doing with Inittool is adding scripting
            > support with the goal that when a certain timer begins (think the
            > start of a spell being cast) you can set an expiration time in
            rounds.
            > This would allow effects such as 'I cast "freeze person", and they
            > are "paralyzed" for 3 rounds' and it will just do the right thing.
            > ie, the characters/monster's affected by the spell would have their
            > initiative order skipped for each of three full rounds.
            >
            > Inittool is "much" further along on stuff like this, but behind on
            the
            > character generation/integration part, where as PCGen/GMGen is the
            > exact opposite.
            >
            > I know my gaming group will be using both InitTool and PCGen for the
            > next few months at least until GMGen catches up in regards to
            > initiative tracking.
            >
            Personally I would just be happy with being able to change the
            initiative number in the cell whenever needed and that player moves
            to the appropriate point in the round.

            Another feature I remembered is if you add a new combatant once
            initiative has stared then they get an init of 0. And they get
            skipped when you step through the round. Ideally when added they
            should become part of the round.
          • Devon Jones
            Sorry, I know I am not around much, but I noticed a thread of a number of Initiative bugs. Could anyone summarize the bulk of the big issues? I can try to
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 2, 2007
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              Sorry, I know I am not around much, but I noticed a thread of a number
              of Initiative bugs.

              Could anyone summarize the bulk of the big issues? I can try to
              actually look at this this weekend.

              Devon

              graham8516 wrote:
              >
              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > "joefrazierjr" <jfrazierjr@...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > > As mentioned the biggest struggle I have is handling readied and
              > > > delayed actions. Without being able to move initiatives around it
              > > > becomes very tricky.
              > >
              > > InitTools does does an excellent job at doing this. This is one of
              > > the many reasons I like that tool. The unfortunate fact is that
              > > doing this and doing "correctly" is not an easy task. It can be
              > done
              > > fairly easily in code in a simplistic manner, but the problem is
              > > getting all of the odd cases correct and making the UI clean and
              > > initiative and that's where most tools fall short.
              > >
              > > One of the things Jay is doing with Inittool is adding scripting
              > > support with the goal that when a certain timer begins (think the
              > > start of a spell being cast) you can set an expiration time in
              > rounds.
              > > This would allow effects such as 'I cast "freeze person", and they
              > > are "paralyzed" for 3 rounds' and it will just do the right thing.
              > > ie, the characters/monster's affected by the spell would have their
              > > initiative order skipped for each of three full rounds.
              > >
              > > Inittool is "much" further along on stuff like this, but behind on
              > the
              > > character generation/integration part, where as PCGen/GMGen is the
              > > exact opposite.
              > >
              > > I know my gaming group will be using both InitTool and PCGen for the
              > > next few months at least until GMGen catches up in regards to
              > > initiative tracking.
              > >
              > Personally I would just be happy with being able to change the
              > initiative number in the cell whenever needed and that player moves
              > to the appropriate point in the round.
              >
              > Another feature I remembered is if you add a new combatant once
              > initiative has stared then they get an init of 0. And they get
              > skipped when you step through the round. Ideally when added they
              > should become part of the round.
              >
              >
            • kevin_fernandes01453
              Hi Devon, I don t have full access at the moment to get a comprehensive list, if someone else does not post one for you before I can later tonight I will try
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 2, 2007
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                Hi Devon,
                I don't have full access at the moment to get a comprehensive list, if
                someone else does not post one for you before I can later tonight I
                will try to get one fore you.

                The overall issues seems to be with the table entries not updating
                correctly, type in a value and it does not take, or sorting etc. What
                I have seen in my own use and testing is, for instance, in-place
                editing in one field of a particular row, updates a different field in
                different row. Quickly doing a debug run during one of these updates
                I get an out of bounds exception (I don't remember off hand where
                though). It looks like the table is somehow out of sync with the
                underlying data structure.

                Sorry its not more detailed, I'll see what I can do later. I was
                going to start working on some of these but real life is taking its
                toll on spare time lately :)

                Kevin F.
                (Code Lemur)

                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Devon Jones <soulcatcher@...> wrote:
                >
                > Sorry, I know I am not around much, but I noticed a thread of a number
                > of Initiative bugs.
                >
                > Could anyone summarize the bulk of the big issues? I can try to
                > actually look at this this weekend.
                >
                > Devon
                >
                > graham8516 wrote:
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