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Re: GMGen Initiative tab table issue

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  • joefrazierjr
    ... On the good news front, my understanding is that there is an export OS that saves in InitTool s format, so as long as that is kept up to date with
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 27, 2007
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      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Michael J. Prentice"
      <michaeljprentice@...> wrote:
      >
      > > instead of having multiple disparate
      > > applications and having to learn config/scripting/etc for each...
      >
      >
      >
      > This is exactly why I'm hoping GMGen gets attention soon. I've spent a
      > lot of time customizing PCGen to do my Homebrew stuff. I'm not looking
      > forward to having to redo it all in InitTools again.
      >


      On the good news front, my understanding is that there is an export OS
      that saves in InitTool's format, so as long as that is kept up to date
      with Jay's(inittools primary developer) changes, it should be fairly
      simple to do the export from PCGen->Import to Inittools.

      Perhaps one of the OS monkeys can elaborate more on any progress made
      to support Inittools new version currently under development(release
      date TDB).
    • Eddy Anthony
      ... I created the InitTool export sheet and I use InitTool and MapTool pretty heavily with my current gaming group. I do plan on keeping up with Jay s progress
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 27, 2007
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        joefrazierjr wrote:
        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Michael J. Prentice"
        > <michaeljprentice@...> wrote:
        >
        >>> instead of having multiple disparate
        >>> applications and having to learn config/scripting/etc for each...
        >>>
        >>
        >> This is exactly why I'm hoping GMGen gets attention soon. I've spent a
        >> lot of time customizing PCGen to do my Homebrew stuff. I'm not looking
        >> forward to having to redo it all in InitTools again.
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        > On the good news front, my understanding is that there is an export OS
        > that saves in InitTool's format, so as long as that is kept up to date
        > with Jay's(inittools primary developer) changes, it should be fairly
        > simple to do the export from PCGen->Import to Inittools.
        >
        > Perhaps one of the OS monkeys can elaborate more on any progress made
        > to support Inittools new version currently under development(release
        > date TDB).
        >

        I created the InitTool export sheet and I use InitTool and MapTool
        pretty heavily with my current gaming group. I do plan on keeping up
        with Jay's progress although at the moment I can't really do anything.
        The latest InitTool uses Java 6 and since I'm on a Mac that's not yet
        available to me. Should be with the next OS release so I don't see a
        problem getting the sheet up to date for our next production release.

        --
        ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
        ~ PCGen BoD, Data Content Second, Doc Chimp, OS Tamarin
      • graham8516
        ... interest in ... before ... some more ... all ... monster ... GMGen ... harder ... keep ... be ... clean ... just ... damage, etc) ... is ... my ... A big
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 28, 2007
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          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "joefrazierjr" <jfrazierjr@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@> wrote:
          > >
          > > One of our newer members, Joe Frazier Jr., has expressed an
          interest in
          > > becoming a code monkey and devoting some time addressing the GMGen
          > > plug-in. He's currently working on a data set 'Elements of Magic -
          > > Revised' to learn a basic understanding of the 'lst language'
          before
          > > diving in with both feet. So, unless things change, I'd expect
          some more
          > > TLC in the near future. I think that will make two dedicated code
          > > monkeys working on this Plug-in.
          >
          >
          > Thanks Andrew.
          >
          >
          >
          > > graham8516 wrote:
          > > > I'm also glad. I've been using it for some time too. RPTools is
          all
          > > > well and good but doesn't come close to the integrated kill a
          monster
          > > > and then apply the experience to the party functionality that
          GMGen
          > > > has. I'm still going to use it, it just makes things a lot
          harder
          > > > since I have to remember who has moved to what initiative to
          keep
          > > > track of things. Damage tracking is working as is experience.
          > > >
          >
          > In the interest of full disclosure, I am also working on doing a few
          > light code patches for RPTools's Inittool. In many ways, their
          > software is far more advanced and very focused on initiative. They
          > have a developer working on adding a character generator which will
          be
          > integrated with inittool, but it is not there yet.
          >
          > On of the things that I like most about the inittools UI is the
          clean
          > ness, whereas the GMGen looks "slapped together". Unfortunately,
          > since it is such a broad based tool meant to support multiple game
          > types, not just d20 stuff, a good amount of low level details are
          just
          > not there yet. In the next release, Jay is targeting getting
          > scripting support into the tool so that events (such as "casting a
          > spell") can trigger things to happen such as roll hits/assign
          damage, etc)
          >
          > The main reason I will be taking a look at perhaps working on GMGen
          is
          > to try to make 1 stop shopping as many d20 players have with GMGenie
          > (but have to pay for!) instead of having multiple disparate
          > applications and having to learn config/scripting/etc for each...
          >
          > And of course, all of this depends on how much free time I have on
          my
          > hands....
          >

          A big thumbs up for this.

          Tracking experience through the course of an adventure is a real pain
          to do by hand and is something that GMGen does very well. It is the
          integrated management stuff that I really like. Let GMGen do the
          admin stuff so I can concentrate on the rest.

          What I generally do it set up the encounters before hand but only as
          far as HP and CR. HP tracking is used for all the NPCs rather than
          endless scribbling on bits of paper. The CR is used for the XP
          distribution afterwards. The other important part for me is round
          tracking for spell duration, especially for those really long combats.

          As mentioned the biggest struggle I have is handling readied and
          delayed actions. Without being able to move initiatives around it
          becomes very tricky.

          I've never used the things like AC and doing the hit rolls since I
          find that AC and hit rolls vary too much, especially at higher
          levels. Same with the saving throw functions.

          The other things I do use are the distance charts, name generator
          (since my players always ask that awkward what is their name to the
          unnamed insignificant NPC) and random treasure.

          Graham
        • joefrazierjr
          ... InitTools does does an excellent job at doing this. This is one of the many reasons I like that tool. The unfortunate fact is that doing this and doing
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 28, 2007
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            > As mentioned the biggest struggle I have is handling readied and
            > delayed actions. Without being able to move initiatives around it
            > becomes very tricky.

            InitTools does does an excellent job at doing this. This is one of
            the many reasons I like that tool. The unfortunate fact is that
            doing this and doing "correctly" is not an easy task. It can be done
            fairly easily in code in a simplistic manner, but the problem is
            getting all of the odd cases correct and making the UI clean and
            initiative and that's where most tools fall short.

            One of the things Jay is doing with Inittool is adding scripting
            support with the goal that when a certain timer begins (think the
            start of a spell being cast) you can set an expiration time in rounds.
            This would allow effects such as 'I cast "freeze person", and they
            are "paralyzed" for 3 rounds' and it will just do the right thing.
            ie, the characters/monster's affected by the spell would have their
            initiative order skipped for each of three full rounds.

            Inittool is "much" further along on stuff like this, but behind on the
            character generation/integration part, where as PCGen/GMGen is the
            exact opposite.

            I know my gaming group will be using both InitTool and PCGen for the
            next few months at least until GMGen catches up in regards to
            initiative tracking.
          • graham8516
            ... done ... rounds. ... the ... Personally I would just be happy with being able to change the initiative number in the cell whenever needed and that player
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 2, 2007
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              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "joefrazierjr" <jfrazierjr@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > > As mentioned the biggest struggle I have is handling readied and
              > > delayed actions. Without being able to move initiatives around it
              > > becomes very tricky.
              >
              > InitTools does does an excellent job at doing this. This is one of
              > the many reasons I like that tool. The unfortunate fact is that
              > doing this and doing "correctly" is not an easy task. It can be
              done
              > fairly easily in code in a simplistic manner, but the problem is
              > getting all of the odd cases correct and making the UI clean and
              > initiative and that's where most tools fall short.
              >
              > One of the things Jay is doing with Inittool is adding scripting
              > support with the goal that when a certain timer begins (think the
              > start of a spell being cast) you can set an expiration time in
              rounds.
              > This would allow effects such as 'I cast "freeze person", and they
              > are "paralyzed" for 3 rounds' and it will just do the right thing.
              > ie, the characters/monster's affected by the spell would have their
              > initiative order skipped for each of three full rounds.
              >
              > Inittool is "much" further along on stuff like this, but behind on
              the
              > character generation/integration part, where as PCGen/GMGen is the
              > exact opposite.
              >
              > I know my gaming group will be using both InitTool and PCGen for the
              > next few months at least until GMGen catches up in regards to
              > initiative tracking.
              >
              Personally I would just be happy with being able to change the
              initiative number in the cell whenever needed and that player moves
              to the appropriate point in the round.

              Another feature I remembered is if you add a new combatant once
              initiative has stared then they get an init of 0. And they get
              skipped when you step through the round. Ideally when added they
              should become part of the round.
            • Devon Jones
              Sorry, I know I am not around much, but I noticed a thread of a number of Initiative bugs. Could anyone summarize the bulk of the big issues? I can try to
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 2, 2007
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                Sorry, I know I am not around much, but I noticed a thread of a number
                of Initiative bugs.

                Could anyone summarize the bulk of the big issues? I can try to
                actually look at this this weekend.

                Devon

                graham8516 wrote:
                >
                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > "joefrazierjr" <jfrazierjr@...> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > > As mentioned the biggest struggle I have is handling readied and
                > > > delayed actions. Without being able to move initiatives around it
                > > > becomes very tricky.
                > >
                > > InitTools does does an excellent job at doing this. This is one of
                > > the many reasons I like that tool. The unfortunate fact is that
                > > doing this and doing "correctly" is not an easy task. It can be
                > done
                > > fairly easily in code in a simplistic manner, but the problem is
                > > getting all of the odd cases correct and making the UI clean and
                > > initiative and that's where most tools fall short.
                > >
                > > One of the things Jay is doing with Inittool is adding scripting
                > > support with the goal that when a certain timer begins (think the
                > > start of a spell being cast) you can set an expiration time in
                > rounds.
                > > This would allow effects such as 'I cast "freeze person", and they
                > > are "paralyzed" for 3 rounds' and it will just do the right thing.
                > > ie, the characters/monster's affected by the spell would have their
                > > initiative order skipped for each of three full rounds.
                > >
                > > Inittool is "much" further along on stuff like this, but behind on
                > the
                > > character generation/integration part, where as PCGen/GMGen is the
                > > exact opposite.
                > >
                > > I know my gaming group will be using both InitTool and PCGen for the
                > > next few months at least until GMGen catches up in regards to
                > > initiative tracking.
                > >
                > Personally I would just be happy with being able to change the
                > initiative number in the cell whenever needed and that player moves
                > to the appropriate point in the round.
                >
                > Another feature I remembered is if you add a new combatant once
                > initiative has stared then they get an init of 0. And they get
                > skipped when you step through the round. Ideally when added they
                > should become part of the round.
                >
                >
              • kevin_fernandes01453
                Hi Devon, I don t have full access at the moment to get a comprehensive list, if someone else does not post one for you before I can later tonight I will try
                Message 7 of 25 , Oct 2, 2007
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                  Hi Devon,
                  I don't have full access at the moment to get a comprehensive list, if
                  someone else does not post one for you before I can later tonight I
                  will try to get one fore you.

                  The overall issues seems to be with the table entries not updating
                  correctly, type in a value and it does not take, or sorting etc. What
                  I have seen in my own use and testing is, for instance, in-place
                  editing in one field of a particular row, updates a different field in
                  different row. Quickly doing a debug run during one of these updates
                  I get an out of bounds exception (I don't remember off hand where
                  though). It looks like the table is somehow out of sync with the
                  underlying data structure.

                  Sorry its not more detailed, I'll see what I can do later. I was
                  going to start working on some of these but real life is taking its
                  toll on spare time lately :)

                  Kevin F.
                  (Code Lemur)

                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Devon Jones <soulcatcher@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Sorry, I know I am not around much, but I noticed a thread of a number
                  > of Initiative bugs.
                  >
                  > Could anyone summarize the bulk of the big issues? I can try to
                  > actually look at this this weekend.
                  >
                  > Devon
                  >
                  > graham8516 wrote:
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