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BoD log - 9/5/07

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  • Paul W. King
    Sorry for the delay. I ve been a bit busy. === [22:05] then you have the floor [22:06] We have 9 freqs left for the 5.14
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 9, 2007
      Sorry for the delay. I've been a bit busy.


      [22:05] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> then you have the floor
      [22:06] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> We have 9 freqs left for the 5.14 release. I am
      2/3rds of the way through one of the more complex ones - 1676983
      Handling Fighter bonus feats and other feat pools
      [22:06] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Meantime the number of outstanding bugs has
      crept up, currently at 39. Some of these will be quick fixes though
      [22:07] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> I think the tag deprecation work is progressing
      [22:08] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> The plugins section is continuing to improve
      with the work being doone by Kevin
      [22:08] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> That's the code summary - any questions?
      [22:09] <[Arch_SB]thpr> not from me
      [22:09] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Oh one notable addition - Aaron's html character
      sheet preview is now scheduled for inclusion in 5.14.
      [22:09] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> He is working on some fixes/tidyups currently
      but the current state can be seen in the preview branch in SVN
      [22:10] <[Content_SB]Frank> Could you up the priority for one tracker,
      [22:10] <[Content_SB]Frank> [ 1676983 ] Handling Fighter bonus feats and
      other feat pools
      [22:10] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Yes, that's underway, 2/3rds done
      [22:10] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> I can check in the new tags if that would be
      [22:11] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Checking in the UI would break things currently
      [22:11] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> I expect to get pretty close to fiinishing it
      this weekend though
      [22:11] <[Content_SB]Frank> Good, Andrew Maitland is working on the MSRD
      Talents to Abilities, and we currently run a workaround that is a bit
      [22:12] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Did you want the new tags first?
      [22:12] <[Content_SB]Frank> We'd then need time to implement and for testing
      the results, that's why I need that.
      [22:12] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Makes sense
      [22:12] <[Content_SB]Frank> The urgency will depend on when we want to go
      [22:13] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> No current scheduled date and I couldn't see it
      happening in the next month at least
      [22:14] <[Content_SB]Frank> K. I was hoping to hear that. :)
      [22:14] <[Content_SB]Frank> So, would it make the next release then?
      [22:15] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Hopefully
      [22:15] <[Content_SB]Frank> k. no further questions from me.
      [22:17] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> guess its your turn Tom
      [22:17] <[Arch_SB]thpr> An early release compatibility checker is up and
      running in the CDOM branch
      [22:17] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> ok, time for me to pop out for a bit - see you
      all in 30-40 mins
      [22:17] <[Arch_SB]thpr> It does have a bunch of false positives - many of
      which are related to the tokens that are still open for discussion in 5.13:
      [22:17] <[Arch_SB]thpr> In particular CHOOSE (in EqMods), FAVCLASS and
      [22:17] <[Arch_SB]thpr> However, it generally looks pretty good, and is
      catching some problems in the LST files, so that's good.
      [22:17] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Barak was nice enough to run the CMP datasets so we
      could check compatibility there...
      [22:17] <[Arch_SB]thpr> They are showing similar issues to our data (most of
      which are false positives that I'll fix in the code)
      [22:18] <[Arch_SB]thpr> ...so compatibility on that front looks reasonably
      good for the end users.
      [22:18] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Once I fix some of the glaring errors, we may want
      to release a version to the community for early evaluation
      [22:18] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Note I owe the _experimental folks a proposal on
      EqMod CHOOSE, the other two showing issues are already out in discussion
      [22:18] <[OGL]PaulG> Is it going to be fairly simple to run sets through?
      [22:19] <[Arch_SB]thpr> well, it's a pretty ugly command line at the moment
      (500 characters?), but it can be put into a batch file to save typing
      [22:19] <[Arch_SB]thpr> all the user will need to provide is the PCC files
      to be loaded
      [22:19] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I think that's reasonably easy
      [22:20] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Long term, I intend to go to a GUI of sorts to do
      [22:20] <[OGL]PaulG> K, that's what I was really thinking of :)
      [22:20] <[Arch_SB]thpr> the reason is that there are tokens that can be done
      in an "offline" conversion that can't be handled during import
      [22:21] <[Arch_SB]thpr> For example, the old CHOICE can be Class or
      Subclass, and theoretically, that could be post-resolved once the data is
      loaded (if it's valid)
      [22:21] <[Arch_SB]thpr> So it's things like that I can "hack in" to a
      converter at the end, but won't appear in compatibility tokens
      [22:22] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Okay, on to tokens:
      [22:22] <[Arch_SB]thpr> The tokens in the CDOM branch are looking good - the
      vast majority will run round robin tests
      [22:22] <[Arch_SB]thpr> (meaning they can read in from the LST file into the
      internal data structure and then be written back out to their LST syntax)
      [22:22] <[Arch_SB]thpr> My notes indicate there are only 11 tokens that need
      revision/fixes to run successful round-robin tests + the PRE/REQ change
      [22:22] <[Arch_SB]thpr> The Integration tests (which includes the .CLEAR
      behavior of tokens) is a bit trickier, and there are 18 tokens + all the
      global tokens and the PRE/REQ tokens that still need tests
      [22:23] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Once the compatibility system is a bit more stable,
      the next step is setting up the code infrastructure to build a PC
      [22:24] <[Arch_SB]thpr> ... and find out what the real challenges are :)
      [22:24] <[Arch_SB]thpr> In order to provide an updated view on 5.13, here
      are the threads of items that I view as still open:
      [22:24] <[Arch_SB]thpr>
      [22:24] <[Arch_SB]thpr>
      [22:24] <[Arch_SB]thpr>
      [22:24] <[Arch_SB]thpr>
      [22:24] <[Arch_SB]thpr>
      [22:24] <[Arch_SB]thpr>
      [22:24] <[Arch_SB]thpr>
      [22:24] <[Arch_SB]thpr>
      [22:25] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Plus the CHOOSE: for EqMods that I need to open on
      [22:25] <[Arch_SB]thpr> That's it for arch, unless there are questions
      [22:27] <[Content_SB]Frank> RL is keeping me busier than usual at the
      moment. Feel free to bump these threads on Experimental or ask Andrew
      Maitland if he can do, please.
      [22:27] <[Arch_SB]thpr> weill do
      [22:27] <[Arch_SB]thpr> *will
      [22:27] <[Content_SB]Frank> thanx
      [22:28] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> seeing no questions for Tom, Frank, you're up to
      [22:29] <[Content_SB]Frank> k
      [22:29] <[Content_SB]Frank> CMP Data Support
      [22:29] <[Content_SB]Frank> Since the last report didn't go public, let me
      repeat that Barak is leading this effort on CMP side now. He wants to
      assemble the tools for some data conversion first, so the volunteers still
      have not been involved in any activity yet. We're currently still waiting
      for Barak to give the start sign.
      [22:30] <[Content_SB]Frank> Content Report
      [22:30] <[Content_SB]Frank> Activity on Data and Docs has been quite good
      the last weeks, but that isn't going to show here, because the report only
      covers the 8 days since the last release.
      [22:30] <[Content_SB]Frank> Data
      [22:30] <[Content_SB]Frank> Andrew Maitland has been the major contributor
      here in the last weeks. In the short time since the release he did 3 Bugs
      and 4 Freqs and the ground work for another Freq
      [22:30] <[Content_SB]Frank> RL kept my time a bit short the last weeks. Of
      that time I had to spend 80% answering mails. :-/
      [22:31] <[Content_SB]Frank> I could finish the review of Alea Publishing's
      Honor and Corruption dataset though, which has gone into alpha.
      [22:31] <[Content_SB]Frank> Docs
      [22:31] <[Content_SB]Frank> The team's been very busy the previous weeks,
      but since the release last week there's only one commit from Fitzs gone in
      [22:31] <[Content_SB]Frank> Eric asked me to point out that the W3C HTML
      Compliance effort has been completed and that Dave Lockwood did a GREAT job!
      [22:31] <[Content_SB]Frank> @Tom or James: Eric is looking for some
      specifications for OS related Docs trackers, does one of you have the time
      to answer that, so Eric can assign the relevant trackers to one of you?
      [22:33] <[Content_SB]Frank> Well, I'll perhaps wait till James is back to
      repeat that question. :)
      [22:33] <[Content_SB]Frank> OS
      [22:33] <[Content_SB]Frank> No activity
      [22:33] <[Arch_SB]thpr> if you just post the tracker #s to -devel, that
      would be fine
      [22:33] <[Content_SB]Frank> Eric, can you do that?
      [22:34] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Can do . . .
      [22:34] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I can probably get to it this weekend at the latest
      [22:34] <[Content_SB]Frank> k, thanx
      [22:34] <[Content_SB]Frank> Since we want to get faster through this cycle
      than normal, I'm going to add the stats of open 5.14 items to my report from
      now on:
      [22:34] <[Content_SB]Frank> Data: 9 Bugs / 12 Freqs
      [22:34] <[Content_SB]Frank> Docs: 15 Bugs / 30 Freqs
      [22:34] <[Content_SB]Frank> OS: 3 Bugs / 14 Freqs
      [22:34] <[Content_SB]Frank> I'm sure some items will be culled in the end
      and moved to the next release, but the numbers clearly show that we're still
      quite a bit off target yet.
      [22:35] <[Content_SB]Frank> Hard to estimate at the moment when Content will
      be ready for Beta, as I do not know when the CMP work will cut in, but
      definitely not in 2 weeks, unlikely in 4, more likely in 6
      [22:35] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I find it unlikely I'm ready for beta in 2 or 4
      [22:35] <[Arch_SB]thpr> probably will be 6 before we can wrap up the open
      token discussions and get them implented, so we're all on same schedule :)
      [22:36] <[Content_SB]Frank> I just wanted to throw those numbers out, not
      put up pressure. :)
      [22:36] <[Content_SB]Frank> That's all from me. Questions?
      [22:37] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> what sources, that you're aware of, are near
      [22:37] <[OGL]PaulG> Yes, any that need cleared for OGL?
      [22:38] <[Data_Second]mosat> Silvens Curses is done, can go to OGL review
      [22:38] <[Content_SB]Frank> Harumph. We still have our hands full with sets
      that we couldn't clear in time for 5.12
      [22:38] <[Content_SB]Frank> It hurt that I was away for too long before
      [22:39] <[Content_SB]Frank> The roadmap has currently 7 ne sets in it, I
      hope that 5 of them will come through, can't say which.
      [22:40] <[Content_SB]Frank> 7 new sets
      [22:40] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Back on Docs... do we have a method to ensure the
      HTML doesn't regress out of W3C compliance?
      [22:40] <[Arch_SB]thpr> (do we need something added to the automatic build
      to validate all the docs?)
      [22:41] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i thought the W3C had some validator that you
      could run on the pages?
      [22:41] <[OGL]PaulG> I don't think it's downloadable
      [22:41] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Ok, I never thought of that one . . . I was
      planning on having the docs reviewed again before each stable release . . .
      [22:42] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> If we could automate it that would be great . . .
      [22:42] <[Arch_SB]thpr> ah, ok, guess that makes it hard to automate
      [22:42] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Otherwise, the doc team will tackle it.
      [22:44] <[Content_SB]Frank> Most new content shoudl follow the existing
      standard in the document anyway. The main problem will then hopefully be new
      [22:45] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> I've been gathering info that will help in
      thelong run.
      [22:45] <[Arch_SB]thpr> ok, that's cool - just trying to simplify the manual
      labor if that was possible
      [22:46] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> I'll provide more info when I get closer to a
      [22:46] <[Content_SB]Frank> Any automation is appreaciated. :)
      [22:46] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i was digging through the w3c site, and found
      this: http://www.w3.org/QA/Tools/LogValidator/
      [22:46] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Me too . . . My vision is automating the process
      of revalidation and preprearation for publishing the docs as a PDF.
      [22:48] <[Arch_SB]thpr> ok, keep us posted if any code or build stuff might
      [22:48] <[Arch_SB]thpr> we can take that discussion to one of the lists, and
      move on here
      [22:48] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Will do.
      [22:49] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> anything else Frank?
      [22:49] <[Content_SB]Frank> no, I'm finished
      [22:50] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> alright
      [22:51] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Eric, i got your email, but would you rather
      present your report?
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> The following is the PL Team report.
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> The Publishers have been reassigned to match the
      recent realignment of the team.
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Recent Correspondence/Contacts:
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> 1) Sponcorship Letter to BP. Awaiting response.
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> 2) Phone discussion with <snip>/Paizo concerning
      Pathfinder and GamesMastery series products. Awaiting decision on
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> 3) 4SRD Question sent to WotC on 8/30/07. No
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> 4) Phone discussion with <snip> of 3 Sages
      concerning future products. Awaiting permissions.
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> 5) Letter to MArgaret Weis Production seeking
      confirmation of Sovereign Press titles and permissions. Awaiting response.
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Sources Letter sent to publishers. Awaiting
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> 6) Letters to BP and Alea letting them know that
      their sets had been released.
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Miscelaneous:
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Progress has been made on combining the Publisher
      Permissions Page and the Sources Page. The final page will be done by
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> PCGen CD team ready to produce additional CDs.
      Working on list of publishers to send them to.
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> A letter to Silven expressing our reret in the
      closing of their doors has not been sent. I knew there was a crack around
      here somewhere . . . this letter found it. :-) I'll get it out by bedtime
      tomorrow. (I know I wrote one and I thought I passed it by Kar, but now I
      can't find it.)
      [22:52] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Working on a draft comparison chart of Char Gen
      software. Due date, TBD.
      [22:53] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Any questions?
      [22:55] <[Arch_SB]thpr> not here
      [22:55] <[Content_SB]Frank> me neither
      [22:56] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Oh, I also sent letters to the three publishers
      of True20 settings to let them know we were not at this time able to
      publishe their sets. I'll follow up with another note concerning their
      expanded setting, of which PCI has already given us a copy of . . .
      [22:57] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Frank, you should have that PDF.
      [22:58] <[Content_SB]Frank> Err, is that the one I got some time ago, or
      something new?
      [22:59] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Oh, the email to Margret Weis Productions was
      preceeded by a phone call to <snip> of the same company . . .
      [22:59] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Some time ago.
      [22:59] <[Content_SB]Frank> k, got that.
      [22:59] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> I'm going to try and swing a copy of Lux Aeternum
      and Necha vs Kaiju as well . . .
      [22:59] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Uhh, can I make a comment?
      [23:00] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I'm not sure we should use names of folks at the
      publishers, unless they are listed by those companies as public contacts
      [23:00] <[Arch_SB]thpr> that's not fair to them
      [23:00] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Got it . . . will cease and desit on that . . .
      [23:02] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> I guess we need to make sure the name above is
      edited out . . .
      [23:02] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Back again
      [23:04] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> brb
      [23:06] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> back
      [23:06] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> anything else for Eric?
      [23:07] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i don't have anything to report
      [23:07] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> No questions here
      [23:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> alright, moving then onto the agenda items
      [23:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 1) team reports - done
      [23:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 2) 5.12.x
      [23:09] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> are we happy with 5.12.1? do we need a 5.12.2?
      [23:09] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> yes. no.
      [23:09] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 2a) CMP data conversion - already discussed
      [23:10] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> There are a few minor bugs reported thus far but
      I don't think we have any yet that would warrant another release
      [23:10] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> fair enough
      [23:10] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 3) 5.14.x
      [23:10] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 3a) deprecation warnings - are data freqs out to
      cover them?
      [23:10] <[Arch_SB]thpr> yes and no
      [23:10] <[Arch_SB]thpr> there are for all but CHOOSE
      [23:11] <[Arch_SB]thpr> CHOOSE requires the stuff for EqMod to be finalized
      [23:11] <[Arch_SB]thpr> as well as the CHOOSE:STRING proposal to be voted
      [23:11] <[Arch_SB]thpr> the rest are all Doc FREQed, Data FREQed and PL
      [23:12] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> how quickly do you think CHOOSE will be finalized?
      [23:13] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I'll have the note on _experimental by Monday night,
      then the regular process from there
      [23:13] <[Arch_SB]thpr> so a few weeks at most - it will fit in and out with
      the other items we need to do
      [23:16] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> cool
      [23:16] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 4) thoughts on 4e
      [23:16] <[Arch_SB]thpr> It's nothing mystical...
      [23:17] <[Arch_SB]thpr> it's hard to make any concrete statements until we
      actually have an SRD or a rule book
      [23:17] <[OGL]PaulG> Ick?
      [23:17] * [Content_SB]Frank has quit IRC (Client closed connection)
      [23:17] <[Arch_SB]thpr> yea, well, that too
      [23:18] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Lots of FUD . . .
      [23:18] * [Content_SB]Frank has joined #pcgen
      [23:18] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> I noted in some of the discussion that WoTC is
      going to encourage people to share their home brew rules for their online
      character generator. We should consider an importer for those if they do.
      [23:19] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> assuming we can get something to convert DDI
      material into PCGen...but i like the idea
      [23:20] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 5) sponsorship - already discussed - anything else
      to mention Eric?
      [23:20] <[Data_Second]mosat> assuming they provide some sort of export
      [23:22] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Not yet. Waiting for a response from BP. Then
      we can go over it again with those comments.
      [23:24] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 6) Kar
      [23:24] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i'm all for sending the ninja monkeys and chaining
      him to the chair :)
      [23:24] <[OGL]PaulG> Ick :(
      [23:24] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> :-)
      [23:24] * [Arch_SB]thpr gives two thumbs up to kingpaul
      [23:25] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> but seriously, what should we do?
      [23:26] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> That depends on how serious you think Kar is?
      [23:28] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I don't know him well enough to know, you guys have
      been around longer than I have
      [23:28] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i met him once at GenCon in...'02? '03 maybe
      [23:28] <[OGL]PaulG> 2003
      [23:28] <[OGL]PaulG> Poor bd
      [23:28] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> ah yes, that episode...that was funny
      [23:29] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> but i'm not sure how serious he was
      [23:29] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Two things come to mind. <snip>
      [23:30] <[OGL]PaulG> We should talk to him about what he feels that he can
      donate. Personally having him at very least keeping track of everything and
      poking from time to time is what we need the most
      [23:30] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> amen to that
      [23:31] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Second that Kar has made an enormous
      contribution and I've certainly appreciated that.
      [23:32] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Absolulty!
      [23:32] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> And I'm new here . . .
      [23:34] <[Data_Second]mosat> The amount of stuff he gets done when he's on
      his game is incredible, we should make him aware that that level of
      involvement is not a requirement to chair the board
      [23:34] <[Data_Second]mosat> maybe he can offload some tasks to others and
      still retain the leadership role
      [23:34] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> not a bad ide Eddy
      [23:35] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i know i did some off-loading since i just went
      back to school
      [23:35] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> (thanks Eric)
      [23:35] <[Data_Second]mosat> same here (thanks Frank)
      [23:36] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> If I were in his situation I'd be wanting to
      step back and feel that someone else would be able to take over. If he has
      the time and the inclination I am sure he will offer but I think it would be
      rude to ask (IMO)
      [23:36] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> I agree James.
      [23:37] <[Data_Second]mosat> seconded
      [23:37] <[Data_Second]mosat> we'll just have to cope without him :(
      [23:37] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Yep
      [23:39] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> So we will need someone to step into the chair
      monkey role, but rather than putting the hard word on anyone today, why
      don't we take that one to the bod list?
      [23:39] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> sounds good to me
      [23:39] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> anything else then?
      [23:39] <[OGL]PaulG> Me too
      [23:39] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> it is 11:40 EDT after all
      [23:39] <[OGL]PaulG> Anyone checked out eruvian.com? :)
      [23:40] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Not lately . . .
      [23:40] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Not recently .. sounds like they are going well
      [23:41] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> I'd like to chat about the UI sometime, but I
      think it is a bit late to start that one right now
      [23:41] <[OGL]PaulG> K just wondered. Blue Devil Games is sponsoring hosting
      fan content for Dawning Star on Eruvian. Kinda cool
      [23:42] <[Doc-PL]Maredudd> Saw that announcement.
      [23:42] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i like Blue Devil Games' stuff
      [23:42] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> just haven't had a chance to tackle Helios Rising
      (its *huge*)
      [23:43] <[Arch_SB]thpr> can the UI discussion be on one of the lists, or
      should we put that early on the next agenda?
      [23:45] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> Lets have a quick chat on the bod list (given
      that is where it started) and then move it over to the dev list
      [23:46] <[Code_SB]jdempsey> sound ok?
      [23:46] <[Arch_SB]thpr> y
      [23:48] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> is that everything then?

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