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Doc team looking for help in desktop publishing automation . . .

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  • Eric C. Smith
    Greetings Folks! The subject line says it all. If you can help, drop me a line . . . Eric Smith Doc 2nd
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 15, 2007
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      Greetings Folks!

      The subject line says it all.

      If you can help, drop me a line . . .

      Eric Smith
      Doc 2nd
    • Jim Syler
      Well, I don t have time to help personally, but I suggest you look into Automator... ... -- How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment to
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 15, 2007
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        Well, I don't have time to help personally, but I suggest you look into
        Automator...

        On Aug 15, 2007, at 1:47 PM, Eric C. Smith wrote:

        > Greetings Folks!
        >
        > The subject line says it all.
        >
        > If you can help, drop me a line . . .
        >
        > Eric Smith
        > Doc 2nd
        >
        >
        >
        > PCGen's Release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        > PCGen's Wiki: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/
        > PCGen's Roadmap: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/#Roadmap
        > PCGen's Alpha Build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        > PCGen's Online Docs:
        > http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/
        > PCGen's Data Help Grp:
        > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        --
        "How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment to
        improve the world." -- Anne Frank, Diary of a Young Girl,
        1952.
      • Tom Parker
        ... Can you be a bit more precise in what are you looking for?
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 15, 2007
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          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Eric C. Smith" <maredudd@...> wrote:
          >
          > Greetings Folks!
          >
          > The subject line says it all.
          >
          > If you can help, drop me a line . . .
          >
          > Eric Smith
          > Doc 2nd

          Can you be a bit more precise in what are you looking for?
        • Eric C. Smith
          ... I am looking for a knowledgable person who can help automating the conversion of the Docs, in their html form, to a pdf manual . . . When Eddy put together
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 16, 2007
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            Tom wrote:
            > Eric wrote:
            > > The subject line says it all.
            > >
            > > If you can help, drop me a line . . .
            >
            > Can you be a bit more precise in what are you looking for?
            >

            I am looking for a knowledgable person who can help automating the conversion of the
            Docs, in their html form, to a pdf manual . . .

            When Eddy put together the pdf for 5.10, he did a wonderful job, especially concidering
            that he had to import the files and then apply the styles and format manually.

            I would like to look at the docs with an eye to making it easier to automate at least a
            portion of the pdf production process. It may never happen, but I want to look at it . . .

            So, I need to find someone who has experience with DTP Automation and some time on
            their hands . . . :-)

            Eric
            Doc 2nd
          • Frugal
            ... It sounds like what you are looking for is actually DocBook. That will take an XML file (or group of files) and build HTML, PDF or a variety of other
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 16, 2007
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              On Thu, August 16, 2007 3:42 pm, Eric C. Smith wrote:
              > I am looking for a knowledgable person who can help automating the
              > conversion of the
              > Docs, in their html form, to a pdf manual . . .
              >
              > When Eddy put together the pdf for 5.10, he did a wonderful job,
              > especially concidering
              > that he had to import the files and then apply the styles and format
              > manually.

              It sounds like what you are looking for is actually DocBook. That will
              take an XML file (or group of files) and build HTML, PDF or a variety of
              other outputs.

              I am sure that someone can knock up a XSLT style sheet to produce the
              navigation bar on the left of the docs page.

              --
              regards,
              Frugal
            • Koen Van Daele
              But Docbook would require changing the entire current documentation, whigh might be a bit too much at the moment? Other than that it is the right tool for this
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 16, 2007
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                But Docbook would require changing the entire current documentation, whigh
                might be a bit too much at the moment?

                Other than that it is the right tool for this kind of job since it
                separates the content and the markup (wheras our current docuementation is
                heavily set into a certain output-type, html).

                I de believe I heard of a tool once that renders html as pdf, but I'd have
                to ask around a bit.

                Koen
                >
                > On Thu, August 16, 2007 3:42 pm, Eric C. Smith wrote:
                >> I am looking for a knowledgable person who can help automating the
                >> conversion of the
                >> Docs, in their html form, to a pdf manual . . .
                >>
                >> When Eddy put together the pdf for 5.10, he did a wonderful job,
                >> especially concidering
                >> that he had to import the files and then apply the styles and format
                >> manually.
                >
                > It sounds like what you are looking for is actually DocBook. That will
                > take an XML file (or group of files) and build HTML, PDF or a variety of
                > other outputs.
                >
                > I am sure that someone can knock up a XSLT style sheet to produce the
                > navigation bar on the left of the docs page.
                >
                > --
                > regards,
                > Frugal
                >
                >
                >
              • Dave Cheever
                Adobe Acrobat 8 directly opens html documents and converts them to pdf. Well tagged styles and settings are maintained automatically. ... conversion of the
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 16, 2007
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                  Adobe Acrobat 8 directly opens html documents and converts them to pdf.
                  Well tagged styles and settings are maintained automatically.

                  > I am looking for a knowledgable person who can help automating the
                  conversion of the
                  > Docs, in their html form, to a pdf manual . . .
                • Terry FitzSimons
                  Well Adobe Acrobat does that quite well. Converted quite a few sites s html to pdf s. Currently trying (along with other things) to reverse engineer the
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 16, 2007
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                    Well Adobe Acrobat does that quite well. Converted quite a few sites's
                    html to pdf's. Currently trying (along with other things) to reverse
                    engineer the PCGen_Docs_510.pdf for updating purposes, but it comes out a
                    mess.

                    Terry

                    On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:29:09 +0200 (CEST), "Koen Van Daele"
                    <kador@...> wrote:

                    >But Docbook would require changing the entire current documentation, whigh
                    >might be a bit too much at the moment?
                    >
                    >Other than that it is the right tool for this kind of job since it
                    >separates the content and the markup (wheras our current docuementation is
                    >heavily set into a certain output-type, html).
                    >
                    >I de believe I heard of a tool once that renders html as pdf, but I'd have
                    >to ask around a bit.
                    >
                    >Koen
                    >>
                    >> On Thu, August 16, 2007 3:42 pm, Eric C. Smith wrote:
                    >>> I am looking for a knowledgable person who can help automating the
                    >>> conversion of the
                    >>> Docs, in their html form, to a pdf manual . . .
                    >>>
                    >>> When Eddy put together the pdf for 5.10, he did a wonderful job,
                    >>> especially concidering
                    >>> that he had to import the files and then apply the styles and format
                    >>> manually.
                    >>
                    >> It sounds like what you are looking for is actually DocBook. That will
                    >> take an XML file (or group of files) and build HTML, PDF or a variety of
                    >> other outputs.
                    >>
                    >> I am sure that someone can knock up a XSLT style sheet to produce the
                    >> navigation bar on the left of the docs page.
                    >>
                    >> --
                    >> regards,
                    >> Frugal
                    --

                    Terry FitzSimons
                    FITZSIMONS@...(Small Letters Only)

                    Data Lemur, Docs Gibbon
                  • Dave Cheever
                    So you are then saving the pdf as a Word document and attempting to edit the Word document? Why not just edit the pdf in Acrobat? Are the changes too
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 16, 2007
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                      So you are then saving the pdf as a Word document and attempting to edit
                      the Word document? Why not just edit the pdf in Acrobat? Are the changes
                      too extensive? What is keeping you from using them as pdfs?

                      ________________________________

                      From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      Terry FitzSimons
                      Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:49 PM
                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Doc team looking for help in desktop publishing
                      automation . . .



                      Try opening a .pdf in a word document, just the cover page got me 1,923
                      pages. Some with just 1 line of symbols, others with eight or nine lines
                      of symbols.

                      Terry

                      On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:54:45 -0000, "Dave Cheever"
                      <dcheever@... <mailto:dcheever%40certiport.com> >
                      wrote:

                      >Adobe Acrobat 8 directly opens html documents and converts them to pdf.

                      >Well tagged styles and settings are maintained automatically.
                      >
                      >> I am looking for a knowledgable person who can help automating the
                      >conversion of the
                      >> Docs, in their html form, to a pdf manual . . .
                      --

                      Terry FitzSimons
                      FITZSIMONS@... <mailto:FITZSIMONS%40MINTEL.NET> (Small Letters
                      Only)

                      Data Lemur, Docs Gibbon






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Terry FitzSimons
                      Try opening a .pdf in a word document, just the cover page got me 1,923 pages. Some with just 1 line of symbols, others with eight or nine lines of symbols.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 16, 2007
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                        Try opening a .pdf in a word document, just the cover page got me 1,923
                        pages. Some with just 1 line of symbols, others with eight or nine lines
                        of symbols.

                        Terry

                        On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:54:45 -0000, "Dave Cheever" <dcheever@...>
                        wrote:

                        >Adobe Acrobat 8 directly opens html documents and converts them to pdf.
                        >Well tagged styles and settings are maintained automatically.
                        >
                        >> I am looking for a knowledgable person who can help automating the
                        >conversion of the
                        >> Docs, in their html form, to a pdf manual . . .
                        --

                        Terry FitzSimons
                        FITZSIMONS@...(Small Letters Only)

                        Data Lemur, Docs Gibbon
                      • Frugal
                        ... DocBook Doclet, Normally used to convert Java API html files to DocBook, however you can also run it against any valid HTML files. It seems to work quite
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 17, 2007
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                          On Thu, August 16, 2007 5:29 pm, Koen Van Daele wrote:
                          > But Docbook would require changing the entire current documentation, whigh
                          > might be a bit too much at the moment?

                          DocBook Doclet, Normally used to convert Java API html files to DocBook,
                          however you can also run it against any valid HTML files. It seems to work
                          quite well against the files we have in the docs folder.

                          I have not got a full DocBook set up, so I have not been able to see what
                          the HTML/PDF back out of the docbook format looks like. However it looks
                          like it should be able to at least convert the HTML to docbook for future
                          maintainance without needint to spend large numbers of man hours over it.

                          http://www.dbdoclet.org/

                          --
                          regards,
                          Frugal
                        • Eric C. Smith
                          Hi Gang! I don t think its really feasable to update the existing pdf as there have been some significant changes to the docs, both in content and form, so I
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 17, 2007
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                            Hi Gang!

                            I don't think its really feasable to update the existing pdf as there have been some
                            significant changes to the docs, both in content and form, so I will be focusing on taking
                            the current docs repository and moving it into a pdf for distribution. Promarily, I am
                            hoping to identify the proper work-flow to get the job done so that future PCGen versions
                            can be distributed with the latest docs in PDF form, and that means cutting down the time
                            to produce the pdf.

                            This is why I am looking for someone with experience in DTP Automation . . . :-)

                            With that said, If there is an individual who would like to take a shot at updating the
                            current pdf, feel free to try . . . Eddy sent me his original InDesign file and with his
                            permision, I can send it on . . .

                            In the mean time, I have been scouring the web for info that would help me identify the
                            options, and I think I have a promissing one . . .

                            There are several tools out there, many of them open source and free, that will clean up
                            html files and convert them to xml files. Once we have xml files in hand, InDesign, which I
                            have a copy of, can import them, maintaining all styles and formating per the xml code . .
                            . and that is the bulk of the effort . . . or so I think . . . thus, I need someone more
                            experinced in DTP to provide advice . . .

                            The Doc Team has already made significant progress (over 80% complete) towards
                            bringing our docs up to W3C compliance with the HTML 4.01 Strict standard . . . Great job
                            Dave!!!.

                            There are a number of tasks that will need to be done periodically to ensure that the docs
                            stay that way . . .

                            There had been some discussion of moving to XHTML 1.0 or 1.1, but that has been tabled
                            for now, but the tools I am talking about can help with that conversion if/when we decide
                            to go there. If we do move to XHTML, the process becomes even simpler as XHTML IS xml,
                            so should be importable into InDesign. I'll run a test or two to see how it works . . .

                            Once the process and tools have been identified, we will need to look at the docs to see
                            what changes can/should be made to bring the whole thing together . . .

                            So, I think I'm going to go away right now, do some experimenting with InDesign and
                            scripting, and try to formulate a more formal proposal and roadmap for PCGen Docs . . .

                            :-)

                            Eric Smith
                            Doc 2nd

                            P.S. Keep in mind that all of this is my own mind running amok . . . The PCGen BoD hasn't
                            heard any of this yet . . . :-) And if they do't like it . . . you may never hear from me again
                            . . . ! Ware the Ninja Monkeys!!!
                          • Terry FitzSimons
                            Keep running into letters that are not included with the original fonts package, that is included with the .pdf. So I need to redue the whole thing in a
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 17, 2007
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                              Keep running into letters that are not included with the original fonts
                              package, that is included with the .pdf. So I need to redue the whole
                              thing in a complete font package. Plus there was also the need to copy the
                              screen capture of the PcGen version that I was working on at the time.

                              I think of the eight fonts used I only have three or four currently on my
                              machine. I have a copy of the Adobe Type Library Reference Book to see if
                              I can find a close match to the others.

                              Basically it comes down to learning two pieces of software.

                              Terry

                              On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:15:17 -0600, "Dave Cheever" <dcheever@...>
                              wrote:

                              >So you are then saving the pdf as a Word document and attempting to edit
                              >the Word document? Why not just edit the pdf in Acrobat? Are the changes
                              >too extensive? What is keeping you from using them as pdfs?
                              >
                              >________________________________
                              >
                              >From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                              >Terry FitzSimons
                              >Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:49 PM
                              >To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Doc team looking for help in desktop publishing
                              >automation . . .
                              >
                              >Try opening a .pdf in a word document, just the cover page got me 1,923
                              >pages. Some with just 1 line of symbols, others with eight or nine lines
                              >of symbols.
                              >
                              >Terry
                              >
                              >On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:54:45 -0000, "Dave Cheever"
                              ><dcheever@... <mailto:dcheever%40certiport.com> >
                              >wrote:
                              >
                              >>Adobe Acrobat 8 directly opens html documents and converts them to pdf.
                              >
                              >>Well tagged styles and settings are maintained automatically.
                              >>
                              >>> I am looking for a knowledgable person who can help automating the
                              >>conversion of the
                              >>> Docs, in their html form, to a pdf manual . . .
                              --

                              Terry FitzSimons
                              FITZSIMONS@...(Small Letters Only)

                              Data Lemur, Docs Gibbon
                            • Terry FitzSimons
                              Of the stupid, moronic, imbecilic, ect, ect, ect. I would think of the ... According to the help file, just use the save As... command, which not only has
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 17, 2007
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                                Of the stupid, moronic, imbecilic, ect, ect, ect. I would think of the
                                export command when you were talking about:

                                >There are several tools out there, many of them open source and free, that will clean up
                                >html files and convert them to xml files. Once we have xml files in hand, InDesign, which I
                                >have a copy of, can import them, maintaining all styles and formating per the xml code . .
                                >. and that is the bulk of the effort . . . or so I think . . . thus, I need someone more
                                >experinced in DTP to provide advice . . .

                                According to the help file, just use the "save As..." command, which not
                                only has "XML 1.0 (.xml)", it also has "Microsoft Word Document (.doc)". So
                                let me know, I saved as .xml and it comes out as 1,403 kb, if no one sends
                                you a file, I'll pitch you this one.

                                Terry

                                On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:55:09 -0000, "Eric C. Smith"
                                <maredudd@...> wrote:

                                >Hi Gang!
                                >
                                >I don't think its really feasable to update the existing pdf as there have been some
                                >significant changes to the docs, both in content and form, so I will be focusing on taking
                                >the current docs repository and moving it into a pdf for distribution. Promarily, I am
                                >hoping to identify the proper work-flow to get the job done so that future PCGen versions
                                >can be distributed with the latest docs in PDF form, and that means cutting down the time
                                >to produce the pdf.
                                >
                                >This is why I am looking for someone with experience in DTP Automation . . . :-)
                                >
                                >With that said, If there is an individual who would like to take a shot at updating the
                                >current pdf, feel free to try . . . Eddy sent me his original InDesign file and with his
                                >permision, I can send it on . . .
                                >
                                >In the mean time, I have been scouring the web for info that would help me identify the
                                >options, and I think I have a promissing one . . .
                                >
                                >There are several tools out there, many of them open source and free, that will clean up
                                >html files and convert them to xml files. Once we have xml files in hand, InDesign, which I
                                >have a copy of, can import them, maintaining all styles and formating per the xml code . .
                                >. and that is the bulk of the effort . . . or so I think . . . thus, I need someone more
                                >experinced in DTP to provide advice . . .
                                >
                                >The Doc Team has already made significant progress (over 80% complete) towards
                                >bringing our docs up to W3C compliance with the HTML 4.01 Strict standard . . . Great job
                                >Dave!!!.
                                >
                                >There are a number of tasks that will need to be done periodically to ensure that the docs
                                >stay that way . . .
                                >
                                >There had been some discussion of moving to XHTML 1.0 or 1.1, but that has been tabled
                                >for now, but the tools I am talking about can help with that conversion if/when we decide
                                >to go there. If we do move to XHTML, the process becomes even simpler as XHTML IS xml,
                                >so should be importable into InDesign. I'll run a test or two to see how it works . . .
                                >
                                >Once the process and tools have been identified, we will need to look at the docs to see
                                >what changes can/should be made to bring the whole thing together . . .
                                >
                                >So, I think I'm going to go away right now, do some experimenting with InDesign and
                                >scripting, and try to formulate a more formal proposal and roadmap for PCGen Docs . . .
                                >
                                >:-)
                                >
                                >Eric Smith
                                >Doc 2nd
                                >
                                >P.S. Keep in mind that all of this is my own mind running amok . . . The PCGen BoD hasn't
                                >heard any of this yet . . . :-) And if they do't like it . . . you may never hear from me again
                                >. . . ! Ware the Ninja Monkeys!!!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >PCGen's Release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                >PCGen's Wiki: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/
                                >PCGen's Roadmap: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/Roadmap
                                >PCGen's Alpha Build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                >PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/
                                >PCGen's Data Help Grp: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                --

                                Terry FitzSimons
                                FITZSIMONS@...(Small Letters Only)

                                Data Lemur, Docs Gibbon
                              • SWTRSE
                                Just to get things clear. What you want to do is an one time convertion from the current documentation that are availabe in html-format to xml. After that, the
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 6 5:20 AM
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                                  Just to get things clear.

                                  What you want to do is an one time convertion from the current documentation that are availabe in html-format to xml.

                                  After that, the documentation is updated only in the xml-files.

                                  With the xml-files as source the new documentation is generated as html, pdf,...

                                  right?
                                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Terry FitzSimons <fitzsimons@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Of the stupid, moronic, imbecilic, ect, ect, ect. I would think of the
                                  > export command when you were talking about:
                                  >
                                  > >There are several tools out there, many of them open source and free, that will clean up
                                  > >html files and convert them to xml files. Once we have xml files in hand, InDesign, which I
                                  > >have a copy of, can import them, maintaining all styles and formating per the xml code . .
                                  > >. and that is the bulk of the effort . . . or so I think . . . thus, I need someone more
                                  > >experinced in DTP to provide advice . . .
                                  >
                                  > According to the help file, just use the "save As..." command, which not
                                  > only has "XML 1.0 (.xml)", it also has "Microsoft Word Document (.doc)". So
                                  > let me know, I saved as .xml and it comes out as 1,403 kb, if no one sends
                                  > you a file, I'll pitch you this one.
                                  >
                                  > Terry
                                  >
                                  > On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:55:09 -0000, "Eric C. Smith"
                                  > <maredudd@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >Hi Gang!
                                  > >
                                  > >I don't think its really feasable to update the existing pdf as there have been some
                                  > >significant changes to the docs, both in content and form, so I will be focusing on taking
                                  > >the current docs repository and moving it into a pdf for distribution. Promarily, I am
                                  > >hoping to identify the proper work-flow to get the job done so that future PCGen versions
                                  > >can be distributed with the latest docs in PDF form, and that means cutting down the time
                                  > >to produce the pdf.
                                  > >
                                  > >This is why I am looking for someone with experience in DTP Automation . . . :-)
                                  > >
                                  > >With that said, If there is an individual who would like to take a shot at updating the
                                  > >current pdf, feel free to try . . . Eddy sent me his original InDesign file and with his
                                  > >permision, I can send it on . . .
                                  > >
                                  > >In the mean time, I have been scouring the web for info that would help me identify the
                                  > >options, and I think I have a promissing one . . .
                                  > >
                                  > >There are several tools out there, many of them open source and free, that will clean up
                                  > >html files and convert them to xml files. Once we have xml files in hand, InDesign, which I
                                  > >have a copy of, can import them, maintaining all styles and formating per the xml code . .
                                  > >. and that is the bulk of the effort . . . or so I think . . . thus, I need someone more
                                  > >experinced in DTP to provide advice . . .
                                  > >
                                  > >The Doc Team has already made significant progress (over 80% complete) towards
                                  > >bringing our docs up to W3C compliance with the HTML 4.01 Strict standard . . . Great job
                                  > >Dave!!!.
                                  > >
                                  > >There are a number of tasks that will need to be done periodically to ensure that the docs
                                  > >stay that way . . .
                                  > >
                                  > >There had been some discussion of moving to XHTML 1.0 or 1.1, but that has been tabled
                                  > >for now, but the tools I am talking about can help with that conversion if/when we decide
                                  > >to go there. If we do move to XHTML, the process becomes even simpler as XHTML IS xml,
                                  > >so should be importable into InDesign. I'll run a test or two to see how it works . . .
                                  > >
                                  > >Once the process and tools have been identified, we will need to look at the docs to see
                                  > >what changes can/should be made to bring the whole thing together . . .
                                  > >
                                  > >So, I think I'm going to go away right now, do some experimenting with InDesign and
                                  > >scripting, and try to formulate a more formal proposal and roadmap for PCGen Docs . . .
                                  > >
                                  > >:-)
                                  > >
                                  > >Eric Smith
                                  > >Doc 2nd
                                  > >
                                  > >P.S. Keep in mind that all of this is my own mind running amok . . . The PCGen BoD hasn't
                                  > >heard any of this yet . . . :-) And if they do't like it . . . you may never hear from me again
                                  > >. . . ! Ware the Ninja Monkeys!!!
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >PCGen's Release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                  > >PCGen's Wiki: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/
                                  > >PCGen's Roadmap: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/Roadmap
                                  > >PCGen's Alpha Build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                  > >PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/
                                  > >PCGen's Data Help Grp: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                  > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > --
                                  >
                                  > Terry FitzSimons
                                  > FITZSIMONS@...(Small Letters Only)
                                  >
                                  > Data Lemur, Docs Gibbon
                                  >
                                • James Dempsey
                                  Hi Mike, Yes that s the plan. It should also mean we can use the docs as context sensitive help in some cases too. Cheers, James. On 6/05/2009 10:20 PM SWTRSE
                                  Message 16 of 19 , May 6 5:42 AM
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                                    Hi Mike,

                                    Yes that's the plan. It should also mean we can use the docs as context
                                    sensitive help in some cases too.

                                    Cheers,
                                    James.

                                    On 6/05/2009 10:20 PM SWTRSE wrote
                                    > Just to get things clear.
                                    >
                                    > What you want to do is an one time convertion from the current documentation that are availabe in html-format to xml.
                                    >
                                    > After that, the documentation is updated only in the xml-files.
                                    >
                                    > With the xml-files as source the new documentation is generated as html, pdf,...
                                    >
                                    > right?
                                    > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Terry FitzSimons <fitzsimons@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> Of the stupid, moronic, imbecilic, ect, ect, ect. I would think of the
                                    >> export command when you were talking about:
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>> There are several tools out there, many of them open source and free, that will clean up
                                    >>> html files and convert them to xml files. Once we have xml files in hand, InDesign, which I
                                    >>> have a copy of, can import them, maintaining all styles and formating per the xml code . .
                                    >>> . and that is the bulk of the effort . . . or so I think . . . thus, I need someone more
                                    >>> experinced in DTP to provide advice . . .
                                    >>>
                                    >> According to the help file, just use the "save As..." command, which not
                                    >> only has "XML 1.0 (.xml)", it also has "Microsoft Word Document (.doc)". So
                                    >> let me know, I saved as .xml and it comes out as 1,403 kb, if no one sends
                                    >> you a file, I'll pitch you this one.
                                    >>
                                    >> Terry
                                    >>
                                    >> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:55:09 -0000, "Eric C. Smith"
                                    >> <maredudd@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>> Hi Gang!
                                    >>>
                                    >>> I don't think its really feasable to update the existing pdf as there have been some
                                    >>> significant changes to the docs, both in content and form, so I will be focusing on taking
                                    >>> the current docs repository and moving it into a pdf for distribution. Promarily, I am
                                    >>> hoping to identify the proper work-flow to get the job done so that future PCGen versions
                                    >>> can be distributed with the latest docs in PDF form, and that means cutting down the time
                                    >>> to produce the pdf.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> This is why I am looking for someone with experience in DTP Automation . . . :-)
                                    >>>
                                    >>> With that said, If there is an individual who would like to take a shot at updating the
                                    >>> current pdf, feel free to try . . . Eddy sent me his original InDesign file and with his
                                    >>> permision, I can send it on . . .
                                    >>>
                                    >>> In the mean time, I have been scouring the web for info that would help me identify the
                                    >>> options, and I think I have a promissing one . . .
                                    >>>
                                    >>> There are several tools out there, many of them open source and free, that will clean up
                                    >>> html files and convert them to xml files. Once we have xml files in hand, InDesign, which I
                                    >>> have a copy of, can import them, maintaining all styles and formating per the xml code . .
                                    >>> . and that is the bulk of the effort . . . or so I think . . . thus, I need someone more
                                    >>> experinced in DTP to provide advice . . .
                                    >>>
                                    >>> The Doc Team has already made significant progress (over 80% complete) towards
                                    >>> bringing our docs up to W3C compliance with the HTML 4.01 Strict standard . . . Great job
                                    >>> Dave!!!.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> There are a number of tasks that will need to be done periodically to ensure that the docs
                                    >>> stay that way . . .
                                    >>>
                                    >>> There had been some discussion of moving to XHTML 1.0 or 1.1, but that has been tabled
                                    >>> for now, but the tools I am talking about can help with that conversion if/when we decide
                                    >>> to go there. If we do move to XHTML, the process becomes even simpler as XHTML IS xml,
                                    >>> so should be importable into InDesign. I'll run a test or two to see how it works . . .
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Once the process and tools have been identified, we will need to look at the docs to see
                                    >>> what changes can/should be made to bring the whole thing together . . .
                                    >>>
                                    >>> So, I think I'm going to go away right now, do some experimenting with InDesign and
                                    >>> scripting, and try to formulate a more formal proposal and roadmap for PCGen Docs . . .
                                    >>>
                                    >>> :-)
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Eric Smith
                                    >>> Doc 2nd
                                    >>>
                                    >>> P.S. Keep in mind that all of this is my own mind running amok . . . The PCGen BoD hasn't
                                    >>> heard any of this yet . . . :-) And if they do't like it . . . you may never hear from me again
                                    >>> . . . ! Ware the Ninja Monkeys!!!
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> PCGen's Release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                    >>> PCGen's Wiki: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/
                                    >>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://pcgen.wiki.sourceforge.net/Roadmap
                                    >>> PCGen's Alpha Build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                    >>> PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/
                                    >>> PCGen's Data Help Grp: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                    >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >> --
                                    >>
                                    >> Terry FitzSimons
                                    >> FITZSIMONS@...(Small Letters Only)
                                    >>
                                    >> Data Lemur, Docs Gibbon
                                    >>
                                  • Eric C Smith
                                    Hi Michael! ... The original intent here was to set up a work-flow that could be repeated every stable release so that we could reliably, and more easily,
                                    Message 17 of 19 , May 6 6:24 AM
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                                      Hi Michael!

                                      You wrote:
                                      > Just to get things clear.
                                      >
                                      > What you want to do is an one time convertion from the current
                                      > documentation that are availabe in html-format to xml.
                                      >
                                      > After that, the documentation is updated only in the xml-files.
                                      >
                                      > With the xml-files as source the new documentation is generated as
                                      > html, pdf,...
                                      >
                                      > right?
                                      >

                                      The original intent here was to set up a work-flow that could be
                                      repeated every stable release so that we could reliably, and more
                                      easily, produce a clean and presentable pdf of the PCGen
                                      documentation. I tried a few experiments and the version of In Design
                                      I have won't do what I thought it would, though it looks like the
                                      latest will. I'll knopw more when I get the money together to buy a
                                      copy . . . :-)

                                      Following this short discussion, Tom and I talked about another
                                      approach that involved doing a one-time translating of the Tag/Token
                                      dictionary to xml so that, with the appropriate tools, the tag/token
                                      dictionary could be ported into any number of forms tailored to the
                                      requirements of the user class, e.g. code monkey, data monkey, doc
                                      monkey, etc. Tom's thought was that such a capability would help the
                                      code team as we could then add code specific information that the
                                      data monkey doesn't need to see and vice-versa. With the tag/token
                                      dictionary in xml format, it shouldn't be difficult to write an
                                      editor for the dictionary, allowing us to finally ensure that the tag/
                                      token documentation meets the appropriate standard. Several other
                                      tools would have to be developed, including a script that would take
                                      the tag dictionary and produce the appropriate html files for
                                      inclusion with the autobuild. Heck, with our own website, and the
                                      appropriate tools in place, we could even set up a conversion on the
                                      fly so that the latest dictionary could be accessed directly from the
                                      website, in W3 compliant form right out of the box.

                                      In general, the basic task involves separating the LST/OS tag docs
                                      from the rest of the docs and converting them into xml with a custom
                                      script. We would also have to produce the custom scripts to do the
                                      various conversions as well as the dictionary editor.

                                      One other advantage to doing this, from my perspective, is that we
                                      would reduce the amount of raw html that needs to be maintained in a
                                      W3C condition. The Intro, Walkthroughs, FAQs and list file classes
                                      would still need to be maintained, but with the tag/token dictionary
                                      being removed from the pile and maintained by the appropriate tools,
                                      I believe the rest will become easier to maintain, even if only
                                      because there is a smaller pile to tackle.

                                      What has been done so far? Very little.

                                      I started an xml schema but as I am not very familiar with xml, and
                                      can at this time only read the java code, and that marginally at
                                      best, I'm not sure where Tom saw that part going. This "project" has
                                      low priority at this time, but it hasn't been forgotten. If you are
                                      interested in helping out, I am certain we can use you though!


                                      ~ Eric C Smith (Maredudd)
                                      ~ PR Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                                      ~ Documentation 2nd, Data Tamarin
                                      ~ PL Chimp, OGL Gibbon
                                      ~ Tracker Gibbon, Website Tamarin
                                      ~ Tenacious Monkey
                                      ~ Face melioram personam


                                      P.S. I signed up for readmission to the local Community College
                                      yesterday and will be talking to the instructor for the Summer Term
                                      "Introduction to Java Programming" class to see if he will approve my
                                      skipping the prereqs. All I want to do is audit the class so that I
                                      have some kind of structured guidance to learning Java and OOP. Wish
                                      ne luck!
                                    • Martijn Verburg
                                      Hey Eric, ... Welcome to the light side padawan ;) Karianna
                                      Message 18 of 19 , May 7 2:09 AM
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                                        Hey Eric,

                                        > P.S. I signed up for readmission to the local Community College
                                        > yesterday and will be talking to the instructor for the Summer Term
                                        > "Introduction to Java Programming" class to see if he will approve
                                        > my skipping the prereqs. All I want to do is audit the class so that
                                        > I have some kind of structured guidance to learning Java and OOP.
                                        > Wish me luck!

                                        Welcome to the light side padawan ;)

                                        Karianna
                                        <Who pretends to code Java every once in awhile>
                                      • Tom Parker
                                        ... I also think we could have items like an ANT task that would test the examples in the PCGen parser and guarantee that the examples will always cleanly
                                        Message 19 of 19 , May 8 4:36 PM
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                                          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eric C Smith <maredudd@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Following this short discussion, Tom and I talked about another
                                          > approach that involved doing a one-time translating of the Tag/Token
                                          > dictionary to xml so that, with the appropriate tools, the tag/token
                                          > dictionary could be ported into any number of forms tailored to the
                                          > requirements of the user class, e.g. code monkey, data monkey, doc
                                          > monkey, etc. Tom's thought was that such a capability would help the
                                          > code team as we could then add code specific information that the
                                          > data monkey doesn't need to see and vice-versa.

                                          I also think we could have items like an ANT task that would test the examples in the PCGen parser and guarantee that the examples will always cleanly parse.

                                          TP.
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