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RE: [pcgen] Re: OS team

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  • Barak
    ... What happened to the one I wrote a couple of years ago? It used to be in the docs... ... And here I disagree. There are lots of tutorials at the W3C
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 2, 2006
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      > -----Original Message-----
      > Also needed would be a tutorial for writing an OS.

      What happened to the one I wrote a couple of years ago? It used to be in
      the docs...

      > Especially in XSLT/FO.

      And here I disagree. There are lots of tutorials at the W3C website that
      cover these two topics... I think it's completely beyond *our* scope to try
      and teach anyone XML/XSLT/XSL-FO. They are large subjects, and somewhat
      complex and why reinvent the wheel?

      We should stick with making sure our docs on token use are correct and up to
      date and show how the *tokens* are used and maybe point to locations for
      learning XML/XSLT/XSL-FO.

      Just my .02

      Barak
    • Steven Gilroy
      I could be wrong here, but I think he meant XSLT/FO as it pertains to PCGen Output sheets. Someone familiar with standard XSLT/FO may still be completely lost
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 2, 2006
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        I could be wrong here, but I think he meant XSLT/FO as it pertains to
        PCGen Output sheets. Someone familiar with standard XSLT/FO may still
        be completely lost trying to create an Output sheet for PCGen.

        Barak wrote:
        >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > Also needed would be a tutorial for writing an OS.
        >
        > What happened to the one I wrote a couple of years ago? It used to be in
        > the docs...
        >
        > > Especially in XSLT/FO.
        >
        > And here I disagree. There are lots of tutorials at the W3C website that
        > cover these two topics... I think it's completely beyond *our* scope
        > to try
        > and teach anyone XML/XSLT/XSL-FO. They are large subjects, and somewhat
        > complex and why reinvent the wheel?
        >
        > We should stick with making sure our docs on token use are correct and
        > up to
        > date and show how the *tokens* are used and maybe point to locations for
        > learning XML/XSLT/XSL-FO.
        >
        > Just my .02
        >
        > Barak
        >
        >

        --

        Steven Gilroy
        http://www.ourcrazyjunk.com
        "In a world without fences, who needs GATES?"
      • Frank Kliewe
        ... Your Creating Character Sheet Templates tutorial is still part of the docs. It is well written, but if you take a look at the effort we make in Data with
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 2, 2006
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          On 11/2/06, Barak <barak@...> wrote:
          >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > Also needed would be a tutorial for writing an OS.
          >
          > What happened to the one I wrote a couple of years ago? It used to be in
          > the docs...
          >
          > > Especially in XSLT/FO.
          >
          > And here I disagree. There are lots of tutorials at the W3C website that
          > cover these two topics... I think it's completely beyond *our* scope to try
          > and teach anyone XML/XSLT/XSL-FO. They are large subjects, and somewhat
          > complex and why reinvent the wheel?
          >
          > We should stick with making sure our docs on token use are correct and up to
          > date and show how the *tokens* are used and maybe point to locations for
          > learning XML/XSLT/XSL-FO.
          >
          > Just my .02
          >
          > Barak

          Your "Creating Character Sheet Templates" tutorial is still part of
          the docs. It is well written, but if you take a look at the effort we
          make in Data with the great number of LSTFileClasses, then having only
          one tutorial for OS looks a bit disproportionate. I think that may be
          the cause why many users shy away from creating their own sheets.

          When I think back to my first steps in OS, I started by modifying the
          existing sheets and learned from looking at these how things are
          handled in there (given that I had previous HTML experience from
          creating a Homepage - which never got online btw.). For that matter I
          believe it would be helpful for people if we could set up some
          tutorials, which would deal each with one specific element of a sheet,
          e.g. the weapons block.

          A weapon block tutorial could take a look at the different forms of
          weapon output we have in our sheets, describe why they were coded the
          way they are, looking at pitfalls and used workarounds while doing so.
          A user could learn from that what really is happening there, and more
          easily start to make his own modifications.

          That first step is often the most important, because if you have taken
          it, you gain the confidence to stay at it. So let's try to make that
          first step as easy as possible.

          Cheerio,

          Frank Kliewe
          PCGen Content Silverback

          --
          Come on now, be honest! Which one of you wouldn't rather listen to his
          hairdresser than Hercules? Or Horatius, or Orpheus... people so lofty
          they sound as if they shit marble!
          (W.A. Mozart in "Amadeus", 1984)
        • Barak
          ... Excellent! I would have looked myself but didn t have PCGen on the computer I was replying from. ... LOL. Since Tir and I wrote a majority of those .lst
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 2, 2006
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            > -----Original Message-----

            > Your "Creating Character Sheet Templates" tutorial is still part of
            > the docs.

            Excellent! I would have looked myself but didn't have PCGen on the computer
            I was replying from.

            > It is well written, but if you take a look at the effort we
            > make in Data with the great number of LSTFileClasses, then having only
            > one tutorial for OS looks a bit disproportionate. I think that may be
            > the cause why many users shy away from creating their own sheets.

            LOL. Since Tir and I wrote a majority of those .lst classes, I'm well
            aware. :P

            > believe it would be helpful for people if we could set up some
            > tutorials, which would deal each with one specific element of a sheet,
            > e.g. the weapons block.

            Ok, now this sounds much more useful/managable.

            > A weapon block tutorial could take a look at the different forms of
            > weapon output we have in our sheets, describe why they were coded the
            > way they are, looking at pitfalls and used workarounds while doing so.
            > A user could learn from that what really is happening there, and more
            > easily start to make his own modifications.

            Heh... The weapon blocks are the nastiest, ugliest part of the OS... I had
            nightmares while creating them (and am moderately pleased with the way they
            came out :p).

            I suppose that means I should write the tutorial about them since I probably
            understand them best... :/

            > That first step is often the most important, because if you have taken
            > it, you gain the confidence to stay at it. So let's try to make that
            > first step as easy as possible.

            I'll add another tutorial (for OS this time) to my to-do list. It might be
            a bit though as Real Life has been getting busier and busier recently.

            I seem to be becoming a Tutorial Monkey or something. Saints preserve us!
            :p

            On a related note, I've just about finished part 1 of the Feat tutorial I
            committed to a month ago or so (planned to be 3 parts currently, may expand
            to 4).

            Barak
          • Chuck Pint
            Nope, not wrong at all. That is exactly what I meant. The question of how the flow of base.xml to the xslt file to PDF, has kept coming up over and over...
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 2, 2006
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              Nope, not wrong at all. That is exactly what I meant. The question of
              how the flow of base.xml to the xslt file to PDF, has kept coming up
              over and over...

              Chuck

              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Steven Gilroy <sgilroy2@...> wrote:
              >
              > I could be wrong here, but I think he meant XSLT/FO as it pertains to
              > PCGen Output sheets. Someone familiar with standard XSLT/FO may still
              > be completely lost trying to create an Output sheet for PCGen.
              >
              > Barak wrote:
              > >
              > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > Also needed would be a tutorial for writing an OS.
              > >
              > > What happened to the one I wrote a couple of years ago? It used to
              be in
              > > the docs...
              > >
              > > > Especially in XSLT/FO.
              > >
              > > And here I disagree. There are lots of tutorials at the W3C
              website that
              > > cover these two topics... I think it's completely beyond *our* scope
              > > to try
              > > and teach anyone XML/XSLT/XSL-FO. They are large subjects, and
              somewhat
              > > complex and why reinvent the wheel?
              > >
              > > We should stick with making sure our docs on token use are correct
              and
              > > up to
              > > date and show how the *tokens* are used and maybe point to
              locations for
              > > learning XML/XSLT/XSL-FO.
              > >
              > > Just my .02
              > >
              > > Barak
              > >
              > >
              >
              > --
              >
              > Steven Gilroy
              > http://www.ourcrazyjunk.com
              > "In a world without fences, who needs GATES?"
              >
            • Terry FitzSimons
              I m just wondering if it would be best to write a series of tutorials on the various areas of the OS? One as a overview of the whole process, pointing out the
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 23, 2006
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                I'm just wondering if it would be best to write a series of tutorials on
                the various areas of the OS?

                One as a overview of the whole process, pointing out the web lesson pages.
                Then One on how to do the header section, place the attributes and skills
                section all over the page, then a section on the various weapons blocks?

                Terry

                On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:14:07 -0500, "Barak" <barak@...> wrote:

                >> -----Original Message-----
                >

                >Heh... The weapon blocks are the nastiest, ugliest part of the OS... I had
                >nightmares while creating them (and am moderately pleased with the way they
                >came out :p).
                >
                >I suppose that means I should write the tutorial about them since I probably
                >understand them best... :/
                >
                >> That first step is often the most important, because if you have taken
                >> it, you gain the confidence to stay at it. So let's try to make that
                >> first step as easy as possible.
                >
                >I'll add another tutorial (for OS this time) to my to-do list. It might be
                >a bit though as Real Life has been getting busier and busier recently.
                >
                >I seem to be becoming a Tutorial Monkey or something. Saints preserve us!
                >:p
                >
                >On a related note, I've just about finished part 1 of the Feat tutorial I
                >committed to a month ago or so (planned to be 3 parts currently, may expand
                >to 4).
                >
                >Barak
              • Nigel Bennington
                I Think that would be a great idea.
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 23, 2006
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                  I Think that would be a great idea.

                  Terry FitzSimons wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm just wondering if it would be best to write a series of tutorials on
                  > the various areas of the OS?
                  >
                  > One as a overview of the whole process, pointing out the web lesson pages.
                  > Then One on how to do the header section, place the attributes and skills
                  > section all over the page, then a section on the various weapons blocks?
                  >
                  > Terry
                  >
                  > On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:14:07 -0500, "Barak" <barak@...
                  > <mailto:barak%40hughes.net>> wrote:
                  >
                  > >> -----Original Message-----
                  > >
                  >
                  > >Heh... The weapon blocks are the nastiest, ugliest part of the OS...
                  > I had
                  > >nightmares while creating them (and am moderately pleased with the
                  > way they
                  > >came out :p).
                  > >
                  > >I suppose that means I should write the tutorial about them since I
                  > probably
                  > >understand them best... :/
                  > >
                  > >> That first step is often the most important, because if you have taken
                  > >> it, you gain the confidence to stay at it. So let's try to make that
                  > >> first step as easy as possible.
                  > >
                  > >I'll add another tutorial (for OS this time) to my to-do list. It
                  > might be
                  > >a bit though as Real Life has been getting busier and busier recently.
                  > >
                  > >I seem to be becoming a Tutorial Monkey or something. Saints preserve us!
                  > >:p
                  > >
                  > >On a related note, I've just about finished part 1 of the Feat tutorial I
                  > >committed to a month ago or so (planned to be 3 parts currently, may
                  > expand
                  > >to 4).
                  > >
                  > >Barak
                  >
                  >
                • karianna03
                  Absolutely, the OS tutorial docs would be a massive benefit to the team and community, I m pretty sure we ve got a OS FREQ sitting there for it :-) K ...
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 24, 2006
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                    Absolutely, the OS tutorial docs would be a massive benefit to the
                    team and community, I'm pretty sure we've got a OS FREQ sitting there
                    for it :-)

                    K

                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Terry FitzSimons <fitzsimons@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm just wondering if it would be best to write a series of tutorials on
                    > the various areas of the OS?
                    >
                    > One as a overview of the whole process, pointing out the web lesson
                    pages.
                    > Then One on how to do the header section, place the attributes and
                    skills
                    > section all over the page, then a section on the various weapons blocks?
                    >
                    > Terry
                    >
                    > On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:14:07 -0500, "Barak" <barak@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >> -----Original Message-----
                    > >
                    >
                    > >Heh... The weapon blocks are the nastiest, ugliest part of the
                    OS... I had
                    > >nightmares while creating them (and am moderately pleased with the
                    way they
                    > >came out :p).
                    > >
                    > >I suppose that means I should write the tutorial about them since I
                    probably
                    > >understand them best... :/
                    > >
                    > >> That first step is often the most important, because if you have
                    taken
                    > >> it, you gain the confidence to stay at it. So let's try to make that
                    > >> first step as easy as possible.
                    > >
                    > >I'll add another tutorial (for OS this time) to my to-do list. It
                    might be
                    > >a bit though as Real Life has been getting busier and busier recently.
                    > >
                    > >I seem to be becoming a Tutorial Monkey or something. Saints
                    preserve us!
                    > >:p
                    > >
                    > >On a related note, I've just about finished part 1 of the Feat
                    tutorial I
                    > >committed to a month ago or so (planned to be 3 parts currently,
                    may expand
                    > >to 4).
                    > >
                    > >Barak
                    >
                  • MikeD (2)
                    Hello karianna03, Friday, November 24, 2006, 6:37:58 AM, you wrote: k Absolutely, the OS tutorial docs would be a massive benefit to the k team and
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 24, 2006
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                      Hello karianna03,

                      Friday, November 24, 2006, 6:37:58 AM, you wrote:

                      k> Absolutely, the OS tutorial docs would be a massive benefit to the
                      k> team and community, I'm pretty sure we've got a OS FREQ sitting there
                      k> for it :-)

                      k> K

                      k> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Terry FitzSimons <fitzsimons@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> I'm just wondering if it would be best to write a series of tutorials on
                      >> the various areas of the OS?

                      >> One as a overview of the whole process, pointing out the web lesson
                      >> pages. Then One on how to do the header section, place the
                      >> attributes and skills section all over the page, then a section on
                      >> the various weapons blocks?

                      I would be willing to help with this, but I am lousy at the whole
                      'staring at the blank page' part. I would be glad to help with
                      editing and the like, however. Just let me know.

                      --
                      Best regards,
                      MikeD mailto:miked@...
                    • karianna03
                      ... Brilliant! Right, I ve flagged the attention of Frank for this, we re in definite need of new Doc Monkeys and there are plenty of Edit tasks (for
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 27, 2006
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                        > I would be willing to help with this, but I am lousy at the whole
                        > 'staring at the blank page' part. I would be glad to help with
                        > editing and the like, however. Just let me know.

                        Brilliant! Right, I've flagged the attention of Frank for this, we're
                        in definite need of new Doc Monkeys and there are plenty of 'Edit'
                        tasks (for instance our FAQ is out of date, not too mention our
                        walkthrough etc).

                        Frank will get hold of you and get you started, in the mean time
                        you'll need to get yourself sourceforge id and email that too me so I
                        can add you to the project.

                        Welcome aboard!

                        Karianna
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