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OS team

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  • Chuck Pint
    I ve just been too busy for the last 4 months or so. I don t see it letting up any time soon. To be fair to the rest of the team, I think that someone else
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 1, 2006
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      I've just been too busy for the last 4 months or so. I don't see it
      letting up any time soon. To be fair to the rest of the team, I think
      that someone else besides me needs to head up OS. I'll still be around
      and answer the OS questions that come up, but I just can't find the
      time to sit down and work on trackers.

      The one thing that I think most holds back anyone else from working on
      the OS, is the docs. Sorry, but way too much of it is either hard to
      figure out, or even in a few places, wrong. IMHO, the best way to get
      the OS team running would be to update the docs for the OS tags. Also
      needed would be a tutorial for writing an OS. Especially in XSLT/FO.

      Chuck
    • karianna03
      We ll discuss this in the BoD, but if there are any more volunteers around documentation and output sheets that would be much appreciated! K
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 2, 2006
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        We'll discuss this in the BoD, but if there are any more volunteers
        around documentation and output sheets that would be much appreciated!

        K

        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Pint" <pcgen2006@...> wrote:
        >
        > I've just been too busy for the last 4 months or so. I don't see it
        > letting up any time soon. To be fair to the rest of the team, I think
        > that someone else besides me needs to head up OS. I'll still be around
        > and answer the OS questions that come up, but I just can't find the
        > time to sit down and work on trackers.
        >
        > The one thing that I think most holds back anyone else from working on
        > the OS, is the docs. Sorry, but way too much of it is either hard to
        > figure out, or even in a few places, wrong. IMHO, the best way to get
        > the OS team running would be to update the docs for the OS tags. Also
        > needed would be a tutorial for writing an OS. Especially in XSLT/FO.
        >
        > Chuck
        >
      • Barak
        ... What happened to the one I wrote a couple of years ago? It used to be in the docs... ... And here I disagree. There are lots of tutorials at the W3C
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 2, 2006
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          > -----Original Message-----
          > Also needed would be a tutorial for writing an OS.

          What happened to the one I wrote a couple of years ago? It used to be in
          the docs...

          > Especially in XSLT/FO.

          And here I disagree. There are lots of tutorials at the W3C website that
          cover these two topics... I think it's completely beyond *our* scope to try
          and teach anyone XML/XSLT/XSL-FO. They are large subjects, and somewhat
          complex and why reinvent the wheel?

          We should stick with making sure our docs on token use are correct and up to
          date and show how the *tokens* are used and maybe point to locations for
          learning XML/XSLT/XSL-FO.

          Just my .02

          Barak
        • Steven Gilroy
          I could be wrong here, but I think he meant XSLT/FO as it pertains to PCGen Output sheets. Someone familiar with standard XSLT/FO may still be completely lost
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 2, 2006
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            I could be wrong here, but I think he meant XSLT/FO as it pertains to
            PCGen Output sheets. Someone familiar with standard XSLT/FO may still
            be completely lost trying to create an Output sheet for PCGen.

            Barak wrote:
            >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > Also needed would be a tutorial for writing an OS.
            >
            > What happened to the one I wrote a couple of years ago? It used to be in
            > the docs...
            >
            > > Especially in XSLT/FO.
            >
            > And here I disagree. There are lots of tutorials at the W3C website that
            > cover these two topics... I think it's completely beyond *our* scope
            > to try
            > and teach anyone XML/XSLT/XSL-FO. They are large subjects, and somewhat
            > complex and why reinvent the wheel?
            >
            > We should stick with making sure our docs on token use are correct and
            > up to
            > date and show how the *tokens* are used and maybe point to locations for
            > learning XML/XSLT/XSL-FO.
            >
            > Just my .02
            >
            > Barak
            >
            >

            --

            Steven Gilroy
            http://www.ourcrazyjunk.com
            "In a world without fences, who needs GATES?"
          • Frank Kliewe
            ... Your Creating Character Sheet Templates tutorial is still part of the docs. It is well written, but if you take a look at the effort we make in Data with
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 2, 2006
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              On 11/2/06, Barak <barak@...> wrote:
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > Also needed would be a tutorial for writing an OS.
              >
              > What happened to the one I wrote a couple of years ago? It used to be in
              > the docs...
              >
              > > Especially in XSLT/FO.
              >
              > And here I disagree. There are lots of tutorials at the W3C website that
              > cover these two topics... I think it's completely beyond *our* scope to try
              > and teach anyone XML/XSLT/XSL-FO. They are large subjects, and somewhat
              > complex and why reinvent the wheel?
              >
              > We should stick with making sure our docs on token use are correct and up to
              > date and show how the *tokens* are used and maybe point to locations for
              > learning XML/XSLT/XSL-FO.
              >
              > Just my .02
              >
              > Barak

              Your "Creating Character Sheet Templates" tutorial is still part of
              the docs. It is well written, but if you take a look at the effort we
              make in Data with the great number of LSTFileClasses, then having only
              one tutorial for OS looks a bit disproportionate. I think that may be
              the cause why many users shy away from creating their own sheets.

              When I think back to my first steps in OS, I started by modifying the
              existing sheets and learned from looking at these how things are
              handled in there (given that I had previous HTML experience from
              creating a Homepage - which never got online btw.). For that matter I
              believe it would be helpful for people if we could set up some
              tutorials, which would deal each with one specific element of a sheet,
              e.g. the weapons block.

              A weapon block tutorial could take a look at the different forms of
              weapon output we have in our sheets, describe why they were coded the
              way they are, looking at pitfalls and used workarounds while doing so.
              A user could learn from that what really is happening there, and more
              easily start to make his own modifications.

              That first step is often the most important, because if you have taken
              it, you gain the confidence to stay at it. So let's try to make that
              first step as easy as possible.

              Cheerio,

              Frank Kliewe
              PCGen Content Silverback

              --
              Come on now, be honest! Which one of you wouldn't rather listen to his
              hairdresser than Hercules? Or Horatius, or Orpheus... people so lofty
              they sound as if they shit marble!
              (W.A. Mozart in "Amadeus", 1984)
            • Barak
              ... Excellent! I would have looked myself but didn t have PCGen on the computer I was replying from. ... LOL. Since Tir and I wrote a majority of those .lst
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 2, 2006
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                > -----Original Message-----

                > Your "Creating Character Sheet Templates" tutorial is still part of
                > the docs.

                Excellent! I would have looked myself but didn't have PCGen on the computer
                I was replying from.

                > It is well written, but if you take a look at the effort we
                > make in Data with the great number of LSTFileClasses, then having only
                > one tutorial for OS looks a bit disproportionate. I think that may be
                > the cause why many users shy away from creating their own sheets.

                LOL. Since Tir and I wrote a majority of those .lst classes, I'm well
                aware. :P

                > believe it would be helpful for people if we could set up some
                > tutorials, which would deal each with one specific element of a sheet,
                > e.g. the weapons block.

                Ok, now this sounds much more useful/managable.

                > A weapon block tutorial could take a look at the different forms of
                > weapon output we have in our sheets, describe why they were coded the
                > way they are, looking at pitfalls and used workarounds while doing so.
                > A user could learn from that what really is happening there, and more
                > easily start to make his own modifications.

                Heh... The weapon blocks are the nastiest, ugliest part of the OS... I had
                nightmares while creating them (and am moderately pleased with the way they
                came out :p).

                I suppose that means I should write the tutorial about them since I probably
                understand them best... :/

                > That first step is often the most important, because if you have taken
                > it, you gain the confidence to stay at it. So let's try to make that
                > first step as easy as possible.

                I'll add another tutorial (for OS this time) to my to-do list. It might be
                a bit though as Real Life has been getting busier and busier recently.

                I seem to be becoming a Tutorial Monkey or something. Saints preserve us!
                :p

                On a related note, I've just about finished part 1 of the Feat tutorial I
                committed to a month ago or so (planned to be 3 parts currently, may expand
                to 4).

                Barak
              • Chuck Pint
                Nope, not wrong at all. That is exactly what I meant. The question of how the flow of base.xml to the xslt file to PDF, has kept coming up over and over...
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 2, 2006
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                  Nope, not wrong at all. That is exactly what I meant. The question of
                  how the flow of base.xml to the xslt file to PDF, has kept coming up
                  over and over...

                  Chuck

                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Steven Gilroy <sgilroy2@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I could be wrong here, but I think he meant XSLT/FO as it pertains to
                  > PCGen Output sheets. Someone familiar with standard XSLT/FO may still
                  > be completely lost trying to create an Output sheet for PCGen.
                  >
                  > Barak wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > Also needed would be a tutorial for writing an OS.
                  > >
                  > > What happened to the one I wrote a couple of years ago? It used to
                  be in
                  > > the docs...
                  > >
                  > > > Especially in XSLT/FO.
                  > >
                  > > And here I disagree. There are lots of tutorials at the W3C
                  website that
                  > > cover these two topics... I think it's completely beyond *our* scope
                  > > to try
                  > > and teach anyone XML/XSLT/XSL-FO. They are large subjects, and
                  somewhat
                  > > complex and why reinvent the wheel?
                  > >
                  > > We should stick with making sure our docs on token use are correct
                  and
                  > > up to
                  > > date and show how the *tokens* are used and maybe point to
                  locations for
                  > > learning XML/XSLT/XSL-FO.
                  > >
                  > > Just my .02
                  > >
                  > > Barak
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  > Steven Gilroy
                  > http://www.ourcrazyjunk.com
                  > "In a world without fences, who needs GATES?"
                  >
                • Terry FitzSimons
                  I m just wondering if it would be best to write a series of tutorials on the various areas of the OS? One as a overview of the whole process, pointing out the
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 23, 2006
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                    I'm just wondering if it would be best to write a series of tutorials on
                    the various areas of the OS?

                    One as a overview of the whole process, pointing out the web lesson pages.
                    Then One on how to do the header section, place the attributes and skills
                    section all over the page, then a section on the various weapons blocks?

                    Terry

                    On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:14:07 -0500, "Barak" <barak@...> wrote:

                    >> -----Original Message-----
                    >

                    >Heh... The weapon blocks are the nastiest, ugliest part of the OS... I had
                    >nightmares while creating them (and am moderately pleased with the way they
                    >came out :p).
                    >
                    >I suppose that means I should write the tutorial about them since I probably
                    >understand them best... :/
                    >
                    >> That first step is often the most important, because if you have taken
                    >> it, you gain the confidence to stay at it. So let's try to make that
                    >> first step as easy as possible.
                    >
                    >I'll add another tutorial (for OS this time) to my to-do list. It might be
                    >a bit though as Real Life has been getting busier and busier recently.
                    >
                    >I seem to be becoming a Tutorial Monkey or something. Saints preserve us!
                    >:p
                    >
                    >On a related note, I've just about finished part 1 of the Feat tutorial I
                    >committed to a month ago or so (planned to be 3 parts currently, may expand
                    >to 4).
                    >
                    >Barak
                  • Nigel Bennington
                    I Think that would be a great idea.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 23, 2006
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                      I Think that would be a great idea.

                      Terry FitzSimons wrote:
                      >
                      > I'm just wondering if it would be best to write a series of tutorials on
                      > the various areas of the OS?
                      >
                      > One as a overview of the whole process, pointing out the web lesson pages.
                      > Then One on how to do the header section, place the attributes and skills
                      > section all over the page, then a section on the various weapons blocks?
                      >
                      > Terry
                      >
                      > On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:14:07 -0500, "Barak" <barak@...
                      > <mailto:barak%40hughes.net>> wrote:
                      >
                      > >> -----Original Message-----
                      > >
                      >
                      > >Heh... The weapon blocks are the nastiest, ugliest part of the OS...
                      > I had
                      > >nightmares while creating them (and am moderately pleased with the
                      > way they
                      > >came out :p).
                      > >
                      > >I suppose that means I should write the tutorial about them since I
                      > probably
                      > >understand them best... :/
                      > >
                      > >> That first step is often the most important, because if you have taken
                      > >> it, you gain the confidence to stay at it. So let's try to make that
                      > >> first step as easy as possible.
                      > >
                      > >I'll add another tutorial (for OS this time) to my to-do list. It
                      > might be
                      > >a bit though as Real Life has been getting busier and busier recently.
                      > >
                      > >I seem to be becoming a Tutorial Monkey or something. Saints preserve us!
                      > >:p
                      > >
                      > >On a related note, I've just about finished part 1 of the Feat tutorial I
                      > >committed to a month ago or so (planned to be 3 parts currently, may
                      > expand
                      > >to 4).
                      > >
                      > >Barak
                      >
                      >
                    • karianna03
                      Absolutely, the OS tutorial docs would be a massive benefit to the team and community, I m pretty sure we ve got a OS FREQ sitting there for it :-) K ...
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 24, 2006
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                        Absolutely, the OS tutorial docs would be a massive benefit to the
                        team and community, I'm pretty sure we've got a OS FREQ sitting there
                        for it :-)

                        K

                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Terry FitzSimons <fitzsimons@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I'm just wondering if it would be best to write a series of tutorials on
                        > the various areas of the OS?
                        >
                        > One as a overview of the whole process, pointing out the web lesson
                        pages.
                        > Then One on how to do the header section, place the attributes and
                        skills
                        > section all over the page, then a section on the various weapons blocks?
                        >
                        > Terry
                        >
                        > On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:14:07 -0500, "Barak" <barak@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >> -----Original Message-----
                        > >
                        >
                        > >Heh... The weapon blocks are the nastiest, ugliest part of the
                        OS... I had
                        > >nightmares while creating them (and am moderately pleased with the
                        way they
                        > >came out :p).
                        > >
                        > >I suppose that means I should write the tutorial about them since I
                        probably
                        > >understand them best... :/
                        > >
                        > >> That first step is often the most important, because if you have
                        taken
                        > >> it, you gain the confidence to stay at it. So let's try to make that
                        > >> first step as easy as possible.
                        > >
                        > >I'll add another tutorial (for OS this time) to my to-do list. It
                        might be
                        > >a bit though as Real Life has been getting busier and busier recently.
                        > >
                        > >I seem to be becoming a Tutorial Monkey or something. Saints
                        preserve us!
                        > >:p
                        > >
                        > >On a related note, I've just about finished part 1 of the Feat
                        tutorial I
                        > >committed to a month ago or so (planned to be 3 parts currently,
                        may expand
                        > >to 4).
                        > >
                        > >Barak
                        >
                      • MikeD (2)
                        Hello karianna03, Friday, November 24, 2006, 6:37:58 AM, you wrote: k Absolutely, the OS tutorial docs would be a massive benefit to the k team and
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 24, 2006
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                          Hello karianna03,

                          Friday, November 24, 2006, 6:37:58 AM, you wrote:

                          k> Absolutely, the OS tutorial docs would be a massive benefit to the
                          k> team and community, I'm pretty sure we've got a OS FREQ sitting there
                          k> for it :-)

                          k> K

                          k> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Terry FitzSimons <fitzsimons@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> I'm just wondering if it would be best to write a series of tutorials on
                          >> the various areas of the OS?

                          >> One as a overview of the whole process, pointing out the web lesson
                          >> pages. Then One on how to do the header section, place the
                          >> attributes and skills section all over the page, then a section on
                          >> the various weapons blocks?

                          I would be willing to help with this, but I am lousy at the whole
                          'staring at the blank page' part. I would be glad to help with
                          editing and the like, however. Just let me know.

                          --
                          Best regards,
                          MikeD mailto:miked@...
                        • karianna03
                          ... Brilliant! Right, I ve flagged the attention of Frank for this, we re in definite need of new Doc Monkeys and there are plenty of Edit tasks (for
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 27, 2006
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                            > I would be willing to help with this, but I am lousy at the whole
                            > 'staring at the blank page' part. I would be glad to help with
                            > editing and the like, however. Just let me know.

                            Brilliant! Right, I've flagged the attention of Frank for this, we're
                            in definite need of new Doc Monkeys and there are plenty of 'Edit'
                            tasks (for instance our FAQ is out of date, not too mention our
                            walkthrough etc).

                            Frank will get hold of you and get you started, in the mean time
                            you'll need to get yourself sourceforge id and email that too me so I
                            can add you to the project.

                            Welcome aboard!

                            Karianna
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