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Re: [pcgen] Re: Output - XML

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  • Keith Ratliff
    Lol. What does joining the team entail? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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      Lol. What does joining the team entail?

      On 9/8/06, karianna03 <martijnverburg@...> wrote:
      >
      > Well those of you who have known me on the boards over the years have
      > probably noticed that I'm a little over zealous in getting in new
      > volunteers, but it really is a great team to work in, honest!
      >
      > Karianna
      > <carefully hiding the 'whip of volunteer persuasion'>
      >
      >
      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Darin McBride
      > <dmcbride@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > On Friday 08 September 2006 03:52, karianna03 wrote:
      > > > Keith,
      > > >
      > > > Would you like to join our team? We'd love to have another Output
      > > > Sheet monkey on board. Naturally if you became a team member we'd
      > > > have to accept your new sheet ;p
      > >
      > > "Sneaky" doesn't even begin to cover this. "Subtle" doesn't even
      > try to cover
      > > it. ;-)
      > >
      > > (The more OS's we can choose from, the better! :->)
      > >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • karianna03
      Ah, well that s the easy part :-), first of all I highlight this to the Content Silverback (Frank) and his Output Sheet 2nd (Chuck) and they ll tell you
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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        Ah, well that's the easy part :-), first of all I highlight this to
        the Content Silverback (Frank) and his Output Sheet 2nd (Chuck) and
        they'll tell you exactly how to proceed. In the mean time you might
        want to investigate:

        http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/pytw/#Welcome

        Check out "Teams", "The Team", "Content" and "OS" sections. Should
        give you an idea of what you'd be getting into.

        Since you're keen to work on your own sheet, we'd happily have you
        working on that but we'd also hope that you could fix the occasional
        bug / implement the occasinoal feature in Output sheet land :-)

        You of course get full medical (the doctors are monkeys however), free
        bananas, an adoring community (yeah OK I might be starting to stretch
        it here) and a brand new room in the "Soul Jar" (Tm).

        Karianna
        Chair Monkey

        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Ratliff" <dracorat@...> wrote:
        >
        > Lol. What does joining the team entail?
        >
        > On 9/8/06, karianna03 <martijnverburg@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Well those of you who have known me on the boards over the years
        have
        > > probably noticed that I'm a little over zealous in getting in new
        > > volunteers, but it really is a great team to work in, honest!
        > >
        > > Karianna
        > > <carefully hiding the 'whip of volunteer persuasion'>
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Darin McBride
        > > <dmcbride@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > On Friday 08 September 2006 03:52, karianna03 wrote:
        > > > > Keith,
        > > > >
        > > > > Would you like to join our team? We'd love to have another Output
        > > > > Sheet monkey on board. Naturally if you became a team member we'd
        > > > > have to accept your new sheet ;p
        > > >
        > > > "Sneaky" doesn't even begin to cover this. "Subtle" doesn't even
        > > try to cover
        > > > it. ;-)
        > > >
        > > > (The more OS's we can choose from, the better! :->)
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Keith Ratliff
        OK I reviewed it and I m up for it. See, I wasn t too sure about being up for it until I saw that I d get in good with Phylacteries United. I mean, who
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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          OK I reviewed it and I'm up for it.

          See, I wasn't too sure about being up for it until I saw that I'd get in
          good with Phylacteries United. I mean, who wouldn't want to disembody their
          soul and store it in a jar?

          --- Why am I seeing so many hands held up?

          --- Imps.

          Now question... As I understand it, PCGen and E-Tools are at their base
          level done by the same folks yes? Is there an issue with creating the XML in
          the same format as the E-Tools XML? Ideally, if this could be done, it would
          allow all the E-Tools sheets that currently exist to be used with PCGen as
          well.

          --Keith

          On 9/8/06, karianna03 <martijnverburg@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ah, well that's the easy part :-), first of all I highlight this to
          > the Content Silverback (Frank) and his Output Sheet 2nd (Chuck) and
          > they'll tell you exactly how to proceed. In the mean time you might
          > want to investigate:
          >
          >
          > http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/pytw/#Welcome
          >
          > Check out "Teams", "The Team", "Content" and "OS" sections. Should
          > give you an idea of what you'd be getting into.
          >
          > Since you're keen to work on your own sheet, we'd happily have you
          > working on that but we'd also hope that you could fix the occasional
          > bug / implement the occasinoal feature in Output sheet land :-)
          >
          > You of course get full medical (the doctors are monkeys however), free
          > bananas, an adoring community (yeah OK I might be starting to stretch
          > it here) and a brand new room in the "Soul Jar" (Tm).
          >
          >
          > Karianna
          > Chair Monkey
          >
          > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, "Keith Ratliff"
          > <dracorat@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Lol. What does joining the team entail?
          > >
          > > On 9/8/06, karianna03 <martijnverburg@...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Well those of you who have known me on the boards over the years
          > have
          > > > probably noticed that I'm a little over zealous in getting in new
          > > > volunteers, but it really is a great team to work in, honest!
          > > >
          > > > Karianna
          > > > <carefully hiding the 'whip of volunteer persuasion'>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com><pcgen%40yahoogroup
          > s.com>, Darin McBride
          >
          > > > <dmcbride@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > On Friday 08 September 2006 03:52, karianna03 wrote:
          > > > > > Keith,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Would you like to join our team? We'd love to have another Output
          > > > > > Sheet monkey on board. Naturally if you became a team member we'd
          > > > > > have to accept your new sheet ;p
          > > > >
          > > > > "Sneaky" doesn't even begin to cover this. "Subtle" doesn't even
          > > > try to cover
          > > > > it. ;-)
          > > > >
          > > > > (The more OS's we can choose from, the better! :->)
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Andrew Wilson
          ... Not accurate I m afraid. CMP are the current maintainers of ETools. They also produce PCGen data sets. They are a commercial organisation set up by some
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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            On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 09:18:59AM -0700, Keith Ratliff wrote:
            > Now question... As I understand it, PCGen and E-Tools are at their base
            > level done by the same folks yes? Is there an issue with creating the XML in
            > the same format as the E-Tools XML? Ideally, if this could be done, it would
            > allow all the E-Tools sheets that currently exist to be used with PCGen as
            > well.

            Not accurate I'm afraid. CMP are the current maintainers of ETools.
            They also produce PCGen data sets. They are a commercial organisation
            set up by some people who were very important in settig up the PCGen
            project, but these days they spend most of their time concentrating on
            the CMP end of things. Most of the code work on PCGen is done by
            volunteers (at least one of whom is connected to CMP, but mostly not).

            I suspect that the ETools optput format is copyright to Wotc. If anyone
            ahd permission to have PCGen produce the same output it would be CMP. I
            doubt that they have the time to tackly a project of that scale.

            To be honest I don't think this will ever happen.

            andrew
            --
            Gemini: (May 21 - June 21)
            The entire Southern region of the U.S. will fall in love with
            you overnight when you accidentally win three consecutive
            stock-car races.
          • karianna03
            Hi all, ... -I suspect that the ETools optput format is copyright to Wotc. If -anyone had permission to have PCGen produce the same output it would -be CMP.
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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              Hi all,

              >> Now question... As I understand it, PCGen and E-Tools are at their
              >> base level done by the same folks yes? Is there an issue with
              >> creating the XML in the same format as the E-Tools XML? Ideally, if
              >> this could be done, it would allow all the E-Tools sheets that
              >> currently exist to be used with PCGen as well.
              >
              > Not accurate I'm afraid. CMP are the current maintainers of ETools.
              > They also produce PCGen data sets. They are a commercial
              > organisation set up by some people who were very important in
              > setting up the PCGen project, but these days they spend most of
              > their time concentrating on the CMP end of things. Most of the code
              > work on PCGen is done by volunteers (at least one of whom is
              > connected to CMP, but mostly not).

              -I suspect that the ETools optput format is copyright to Wotc. If
              -anyone had permission to have PCGen produce the same output it would
              -be CMP. I doubt that they have the time to tackle a project of that
              -scale.

              -To be honest I don't think this will ever happen.

              I'm not too sure on this, in theory we'd need to gain permssion from
              CMP and WoTC (I think), we could get the Pauls to check, it maybe
              relatively easy to get permission

              K
            • Paul W. King
              ... I m fairly certain this is true, but I ll ask. Paul W. King PR SB, BoD
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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                > -I suspect that the ETools optput format is copyright to Wotc.

                I'm fairly certain this is true, but I'll ask.

                Paul W. King
                PR SB, BoD
              • Paul W. King
                ... When you say format, are you talking just sheet layout, or the desire to use the same variables as well? Paul W. King PR SB, BoD
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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                  > Is there an issue with creating the XML in the same format as the
                  > E-Tools XML? Ideally, if this could be done, it would allow all the
                  > E-Tools sheets that currently exist to be used with PCGen as well.

                  When you say format, are you talking just sheet layout, or the desire
                  to use the same variables as well?

                  Paul W. King
                  PR SB, BoD
                • Keith Ratliff
                  The XML format itself. My sheet has its own layout. Indeed I coded it 100% from scratch in notepad. That s just my style. But when I coded it, I used output
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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                    The XML format itself.

                    My sheet has its own layout. Indeed I coded it 100% from scratch in notepad.
                    That's just my style.

                    But when I coded it, I used output XML files from E-Tools to map out the
                    sections of it. For example:

                    Evaluating a Will Save:
                    <xsl:value-of
                    select="sum(saving-throws/saving-throw[name='Will']/modifiers/modifier[@name='feature'
                    or @name='user']/@value)" />

                    The source document has an XML Snippet:
                    <saving-throws>
                    <saving-throw>
                    <name>Fortitude</name>
                    <abbr>Fort</abbr>
                    <ability>Con</ability>
                    <modifiers>
                    <modifier name="base" value="9"/>
                    <modifier name="ability" value="2"/>
                    <modifier name="magic" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="feat" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="race" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="familar" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="feature" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="user" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="misc" value="0"/>
                    </modifiers>
                    </saving-throw>
                    <saving-throw>
                    <name>Reflex</name>
                    <abbr>Ref</abbr>
                    <ability>Dex</ability>
                    <modifiers>
                    <modifier name="base" value="5"/>
                    <modifier name="ability" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="magic" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="feat" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="race" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="familar" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="feature" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="user" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="misc" value="0"/>
                    </modifiers>
                    </saving-throw>
                    <saving-throw>
                    <name>Will</name>
                    <abbr>Will</abbr>
                    <ability>Wis</ability>
                    <modifiers>
                    <modifier name="base" value="9"/>
                    <modifier name="ability" value="6"/>
                    <modifier name="magic" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="feat" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="race" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="familar" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="feature" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="user" value="0"/>
                    <modifier name="misc" value="0"/>
                    </modifiers>
                    </saving-throw>
                    </saving-throws>

                    I would like to be able to recreate all of the base XML Document as an
                    output style from PCGen. Just the XML. No other code, no other features.

                    All other features of my sheet are 100% mine, implemented fully 100% by me,
                    on my own time, with my own style, constructs, methods, etc. I was very
                    careful not to even look at other sheets because I wanted my sheet to have a
                    fresh look and feel, not a recreation of the same ol' same ol'. (Although
                    how the sheet looks to the end user does have some basis in sticking with
                    sheet layout standards)

                    The question here is in structure of the XML. While XML itself isn't
                    copyrighted by anyone, save conventions are (c) the W3C organization, the
                    actual DSD (Document Style Definition) may be (c) E-Tools. I checked the
                    license agreement for E-Tools already and it doesn't list the XML in any
                    part, but it would be better to check with them I think than to just assume.

                    --Keith


                    On 9/8/06, Paul W. King <paulking.rhochi@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Is there an issue with creating the XML in the same format as the
                    > > E-Tools XML? Ideally, if this could be done, it would allow all the
                    > > E-Tools sheets that currently exist to be used with PCGen as well.
                    >
                    > When you say format, are you talking just sheet layout, or the desire
                    > to use the same variables as well?
                    >
                    > Paul W. King
                    > PR SB, BoD
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Edwin Holley
                    ... I would suggest taking a look at the PCGen output sheet stuff, and making even brand spanking unique er character sheets :-). And ... putting
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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                      <SNIP>
                      > The question here is in structure of the XML. While XML itself isn't
                      > copyrighted by anyone, save conventions are (c) the W3C organization, the
                      > actual DSD (Document Style Definition) may be (c) E-Tools. I checked the
                      > license agreement for E-Tools already and it doesn't list the XML in any
                      > part, but it would be better to check with them I think than to just assume.
                      >
                      > --Keith
                      >
                      >
                      > On 9/8/06, Paul W. King <paulking.rhochi@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> > Is there an issue with creating the XML in the same format as the
                      >>
                      >>> E-Tools XML? Ideally, if this could be done, it would allow all the
                      >>> E-Tools sheets that currently exist to be used with PCGen as well.
                      >>>
                      >> When you say format, are you talking just sheet layout, or the desire
                      >> to use the same variables as well?
                      >>
                      >> Paul W. King
                      >> PR SB, BoD
                      >>
                      I would suggest taking a look at the PCGen output sheet stuff, and
                      making even "brand spanking unique" er character sheets :-). And ...
                      putting them in the files section on the group. Who dosn't love new
                      character sheets, especially unique ones (even better if they have
                      pretty graphics, to impress the non-PCGen enabled (poor folks)).
                    • Keith Ratliff
                      Well, at issue here is that I have my own version of a character sheet. Here is how version 1 looked and I am working now on version 2 with even more features:
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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                        Well, at issue here is that I have my own version of a character sheet.

                        Here is how version 1 looked and I am working now on version 2 with even
                        more features:

                        http://keithratliff.com/sheet/rat_v1.gif

                        Now, if I can't duplicate the ETools XML output structure (IE, they say
                        "no") then I'll use the base.xml instead and make version 2 be PCGen only.

                        But as a character sheet designer, it would be ideal to be able to include
                        as many users as possible, and that means continuing to include the ETools
                        people. The best way I see to do that is to take the time (which I am
                        willing to do) to make a basic implementation of the same XML for PCGen.

                        If we get a "yes thats OK" response, that is exactly what I intend to do.

                        Truthfully, I already started, but if the no response comes through Ill
                        abandon it and go back to the sheet directly.

                        But I know that if the answer is PCGen only, then I will have a lot of
                        disappointed "customers" of my sheet who have been loyal supporters all
                        along. And while I technically owe them nothing (since its always been free)
                        I still feel bad about excluding them going forward.

                        --Keith

                        On 9/8/06, Edwin Holley <eholley@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > <SNIP>
                        >
                        > > The question here is in structure of the XML. While XML itself isn't
                        > > copyrighted by anyone, save conventions are (c) the W3C organization,
                        > the
                        > > actual DSD (Document Style Definition) may be (c) E-Tools. I checked the
                        > > license agreement for E-Tools already and it doesn't list the XML in any
                        > > part, but it would be better to check with them I think than to just
                        > assume.
                        > >
                        > > --Keith
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > On 9/8/06, Paul W. King <paulking.rhochi@...<paulking.rhochi%40verizon.net>>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > >> > Is there an issue with creating the XML in the same format as the
                        > >>
                        > >>> E-Tools XML? Ideally, if this could be done, it would allow all the
                        > >>> E-Tools sheets that currently exist to be used with PCGen as well.
                        > >>>
                        > >> When you say format, are you talking just sheet layout, or the desire
                        > >> to use the same variables as well?
                        > >>
                        > >> Paul W. King
                        > >> PR SB, BoD
                        > >>
                        > I would suggest taking a look at the PCGen output sheet stuff, and
                        > making even "brand spanking unique" er character sheets :-). And ...
                        > putting them in the files section on the group. Who dosn't love new
                        > character sheets, especially unique ones (even better if they have
                        > pretty graphics, to impress the non-PCGen enabled (poor folks)).
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Chuck Pint
                        ... only. ... include ... ETools ... to do. ... been free) ... Correct me if I m wrong, but you use a XML output from eTools, and then feed that to a xslt form
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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                          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Ratliff" <dracorat@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Well, at issue here is that I have my own version of a character sheet.
                          >
                          > Here is how version 1 looked and I am working now on version 2 with even
                          > more features:
                          >
                          > http://keithratliff.com/sheet/rat_v1.gif
                          >
                          > Now, if I can't duplicate the ETools XML output structure (IE, they say
                          > "no") then I'll use the base.xml instead and make version 2 be PCGen
                          only.
                          >
                          > But as a character sheet designer, it would be ideal to be able to
                          include
                          > as many users as possible, and that means continuing to include the
                          ETools
                          > people. The best way I see to do that is to take the time (which I am
                          > willing to do) to make a basic implementation of the same XML for PCGen.
                          >
                          > If we get a "yes thats OK" response, that is exactly what I intend
                          to do.
                          >
                          > Truthfully, I already started, but if the no response comes through Ill
                          > abandon it and go back to the sheet directly.
                          >
                          > But I know that if the answer is PCGen only, then I will have a lot of
                          > disappointed "customers" of my sheet who have been loyal supporters all
                          > along. And while I technically owe them nothing (since its always
                          been free)
                          > I still feel bad about excluding them going forward.
                          >
                          > --Keith

                          Correct me if I'm wrong, but you use a XML output from eTools, and
                          then feed that to a xslt form to get the Output Sheet? If that's the
                          case, you should only have to rewrite base.xml on the PCGen side in
                          order to feed that into your xslt form. While it would be tedious, it
                          should be entirely possible to do (note that base.xml is a fairly big
                          file). Also, if that's all you do, then I don't see why you would need
                          anyone's permission. Note that under LGPL license PCGen is written
                          under, if you want to distribute your Output Sheet, you simply have to
                          offer it back to the project.

                          If I missed something, or have the wrong assumtions, I'm sure someone
                          will let me know...

                          Chuck
                          OS Chimp
                        • frank_kliewe
                          ... in ... their ... [snip] ... Hi Keith, I ve sent you a PM about joining the team. Please check your inbox. :) Cheerio, Frank Kliewe PCGen Content Silverback
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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                            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Ratliff" <dracorat@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > OK I reviewed it and I'm up for it.
                            >
                            > See, I wasn't too sure about being up for it until I saw that I'd get
                            in
                            > good with Phylacteries United. I mean, who wouldn't want to disembody
                            their
                            > soul and store it in a jar?
                            >
                            > --- Why am I seeing so many hands held up?
                            >
                            > --- Imps.
                            >
                            [snip]
                            >
                            > --Keith
                            >

                            Hi Keith,

                            I've sent you a PM about joining the team. Please check your inbox. :)

                            Cheerio,

                            Frank Kliewe
                            PCGen Content Silverback

                            --
                            I don't think you understand. I didn't come to rescue Rambo from you. I
                            came here to rescue you from him.
                            (Col. Trautman in "First Blood", 1982)
                          • Keith Ratliff
                            ... permission. That pretty much is all I am asking for. The only reason I might need permission is that I am copying a structure created by a company. Thus,
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 8, 2006
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                              > Also, if that's all you do, then I don't see why you would need anyone's
                              permission.

                              That pretty much is all I am asking for. The only reason I might need
                              permission is that I am copying a structure created by a company. Thus, it
                              might end up having been caught under some copyright clause somewhere. But I
                              do see it as minor since the structure isn't anything special or anything
                              with intellectual works in it.

                              I do have an email for a CMP person from when I used to be active on their
                              forums. I don't usually contact people directly but this might be cause to
                              do so.

                              Regardless, thanks for all the input folks. =) I gots me a sheet to
                              programme!

                              --Keith

                              On 9/8/06, Chuck Pint <pcgen2006@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, "Keith Ratliff"
                              > <dracorat@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Well, at issue here is that I have my own version of a character sheet.
                              > >
                              > > Here is how version 1 looked and I am working now on version 2 with even
                              > > more features:
                              > >
                              > > http://keithratliff.com/sheet/rat_v1.gif
                              > >
                              > > Now, if I can't duplicate the ETools XML output structure (IE, they say
                              > > "no") then I'll use the base.xml instead and make version 2 be PCGen
                              > only.
                              > >
                              > > But as a character sheet designer, it would be ideal to be able to
                              > include
                              > > as many users as possible, and that means continuing to include the
                              > ETools
                              > > people. The best way I see to do that is to take the time (which I am
                              > > willing to do) to make a basic implementation of the same XML for PCGen.
                              > >
                              > > If we get a "yes thats OK" response, that is exactly what I intend
                              > to do.
                              > >
                              > > Truthfully, I already started, but if the no response comes through Ill
                              > > abandon it and go back to the sheet directly.
                              > >
                              > > But I know that if the answer is PCGen only, then I will have a lot of
                              > > disappointed "customers" of my sheet who have been loyal supporters all
                              > > along. And while I technically owe them nothing (since its always
                              > been free)
                              > > I still feel bad about excluding them going forward.
                              > >
                              > > --Keith
                              >
                              > Correct me if I'm wrong, but you use a XML output from eTools, and
                              > then feed that to a xslt form to get the Output Sheet? If that's the
                              > case, you should only have to rewrite base.xml on the PCGen side in
                              > order to feed that into your xslt form. While it would be tedious, it
                              > should be entirely possible to do (note that base.xml is a fairly big
                              > file). Also, if that's all you do, then I don't see why you would need
                              > anyone's permission. Note that under LGPL license PCGen is written
                              > under, if you want to distribute your Output Sheet, you simply have to
                              > offer it back to the project.
                              >
                              > If I missed something, or have the wrong assumtions, I'm sure someone
                              > will let me know...
                              >
                              > Chuck
                              > OS Chimp
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • David M. Bebber
                              On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:09:20 -0500, Keith Ratliff ... I have a few questions about your sheet.... 1. The sample character is wearing
                              Message 14 of 23 , Sep 10, 2006
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                                On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:09:20 -0500, Keith Ratliff <dracorat@...>
                                wrote:

                                > Well, at issue here is that I have my own version of a character sheet.
                                >
                                > Here is how version 1 looked and I am working now on version 2 with even
                                > more features:
                                >
                                > http://keithratliff.com/sheet/rat_v1.gif
                                >
                                I have a few questions about your sheet....

                                1. The sample character is wearing Bracers of Armor +8 (Armor Bonus), and
                                a Ring of Protection (Deflection Bonus) but his Armor Bonus is a 0 in the
                                AC section... it's all lumped into the Misc. modifier box.

                                2. The sample character is a High Elf (Favored Class Wizard) Fighter 3 /
                                Cleric 6 / Wizard 5. The Wizard levels don't matter, however the 2 level
                                difference in Fighter / Cleric should give a 10% XP penalty... your sheet
                                shows a 20% XP penalty.

                                Nice sheet though... and welcome to the Jar.
                                --
                                Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
                              • Keith Ratliff
                                Thanks! And both the errors you report were errors at the time in ETools. =) But good catch. There are few other errors on that screenshot too. I had people
                                Message 15 of 23 , Sep 10, 2006
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                                  Thanks!

                                  And both the errors you report were errors at the time in ETools. =)
                                  But good catch. There are few other errors on that screenshot too. I
                                  had people report them in the past, but I don't recall what they are
                                  off the top of my head.

                                  It is after all, a sample to show off what the sheet is, not what the
                                  character is. =P

                                  (Although one could argue that accuracy might be compromised. But I
                                  made sure that my sheet is accurate in reporting, which it is, but the
                                  source application has to be accurate in outputting, which I find PC
                                  Gen to be. =] )

                                  On 9/10/06, David M. Bebber <bebberd@...> wrote:
                                  > On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:09:20 -0500, Keith Ratliff <dracorat@...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Well, at issue here is that I have my own version of a character sheet.
                                  > >
                                  > > Here is how version 1 looked and I am working now on version 2 with even
                                  > > more features:
                                  > >
                                  > > http://keithratliff.com/sheet/rat_v1.gif
                                  > >
                                  > I have a few questions about your sheet....
                                  >
                                  > 1. The sample character is wearing Bracers of Armor +8 (Armor Bonus), and
                                  > a Ring of Protection (Deflection Bonus) but his Armor Bonus is a 0 in the
                                  > AC section... it's all lumped into the Misc. modifier box.
                                  >
                                  > 2. The sample character is a High Elf (Favored Class Wizard) Fighter 3 /
                                  > Cleric 6 / Wizard 5. The Wizard levels don't matter, however the 2 level
                                  > difference in Fighter / Cleric should give a 10% XP penalty... your sheet
                                  > shows a 20% XP penalty.
                                  >
                                  > Nice sheet though... and welcome to the Jar.
                                  > --
                                  > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                  > PCGen's Wiki: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/pytw/#Welcome
                                  > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                  > PCGen's Online Docs: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/docs/
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Keith Ratliff
                                  Whoops! Follow up... PHB Page 60 - it is 20% per class, not 10 % so that part is right. As for the bracers, I totally agree their AC should have shown in the
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Sep 10, 2006
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                                    Whoops! Follow up...

                                    PHB Page 60 - it is 20% per class, not 10 % so that part is right.

                                    As for the bracers, I totally agree their AC should have shown in the Armor box.

                                    --Keith

                                    On 9/10/06, Keith Ratliff <dracorat@...> wrote:
                                    > Thanks!
                                    >
                                    > And both the errors you report were errors at the time in ETools. =)
                                    > But good catch. There are few other errors on that screenshot too. I
                                    > had people report them in the past, but I don't recall what they are
                                    > off the top of my head.
                                    >
                                    > It is after all, a sample to show off what the sheet is, not what the
                                    > character is. =P
                                    >
                                    > (Although one could argue that accuracy might be compromised. But I
                                    > made sure that my sheet is accurate in reporting, which it is, but the
                                    > source application has to be accurate in outputting, which I find PC
                                    > Gen to be. =] )
                                    >
                                    > On 9/10/06, David M. Bebber <bebberd@...> wrote:
                                    > > On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:09:20 -0500, Keith Ratliff <dracorat@...>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > Well, at issue here is that I have my own version of a character sheet.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Here is how version 1 looked and I am working now on version 2 with even
                                    > > > more features:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > http://keithratliff.com/sheet/rat_v1.gif
                                    > > >
                                    > > I have a few questions about your sheet....
                                    > >
                                    > > 1. The sample character is wearing Bracers of Armor +8 (Armor Bonus), and
                                    > > a Ring of Protection (Deflection Bonus) but his Armor Bonus is a 0 in the
                                    > > AC section... it's all lumped into the Misc. modifier box.
                                    > >
                                    > > 2. The sample character is a High Elf (Favored Class Wizard) Fighter 3 /
                                    > > Cleric 6 / Wizard 5. The Wizard levels don't matter, however the 2 level
                                    > > difference in Fighter / Cleric should give a 10% XP penalty... your sheet
                                    > > shows a 20% XP penalty.
                                    > >
                                    > > Nice sheet though... and welcome to the Jar.
                                    > > --
                                    > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                    > > PCGen's Wiki: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/pytw/#Welcome
                                    > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                    > > PCGen's Online Docs: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/docs/
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • David M. Bebber
                                    On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:10:23 -0500, Keith Ratliff ... Doh, ya caught me on that one... my group RELIGIOUSLY avoids the XP penalty, so I
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Sep 10, 2006
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                                      On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:10:23 -0500, Keith Ratliff <dracorat@...>
                                      wrote:

                                      > Whoops! Follow up...
                                      >
                                      > PHB Page 60 - it is 20% per class, not 10 % so that part is right.
                                      >
                                      > As for the bracers, I totally agree their AC should have shown in the
                                      > Armor box.
                                      >
                                      > --Keith
                                      >

                                      Doh, ya caught me on that one... my group RELIGIOUSLY avoids the XP
                                      penalty, so I plead Nolo Contendre.
                                      ;)

                                      --
                                      Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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