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Re: [pcgen] [OS FREQ] Replace "Points" line with Species Type

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  • Richard Bowers
    ... So how about a FREQ for an output sheet token that can be used in an if statement, with a return value based on whether or not points are being used. It
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 1, 2006
      On 6/1/06, The Wandering Dru <dru@...> wrote:
      >
      > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
      > Hash: SHA1
      >
      >
      > Derek J. Balling wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > How many people actually use point-buy systems, though?
      > >
      >
      > The RPGA uses it exclusively. My group uses it often, but not always.
      > When using point buy, it is nice to have that there as a quick reference
      > for the DM.
      >
      > I don't think it's useless, but it is borked when point buy isn't used.
      >

      So how about a FREQ for an output sheet token that can be used in an if
      statement, with a return value based on whether or not points are being
      used. It would be crucial that this not just be a string token that returns
      something that can't be compared using existing logic - it has to be able to
      be used in an if or other conditional statement. If we had that, I could
      change the output sheet to output the points block only if they're using
      points, and otherwise either expand the rest of the columns, or output
      something else in place of points.

      That would save the headaches that I have with newbies wondering what the
      Points section is and why it's important enough to be on the front of the
      sheet, but also prevent us from turning off something that's undeniably
      important.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Truth
      ... I think quite a few of us use this. I know I do, as do all the other role-players I m currently in contact with (at least 4 different groups of 4 to 8
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 1, 2006
        On 6/2/06, Tod W. Milam <twmilam@...> wrote:
        > --- "Derek J. Balling" <dredd@...> wrote:
        > > > It's not useless. It's the number of points used to create a
        > > > character
        > > > using a Point-Buy system. Quite useful to me, and I appreciate
        > > it's
        > > > presence.
        > >
        > > How many people actually use point-buy systems, though?
        >
        > At least 2 of us. I certainly find it useful, both for policing the
        > PCs and for creating my own NPCs.

        I think quite a few of us use this. I know I do, as do all the other
        role-players I'm currently in contact with (at least 4 different
        groups of 4 to 8 people each).

        --
        Truth.
        There is no religion higher than the Truth.
      • Chuck Pint
        ... returns ... able to ... what the ... of the ... That FREQ is already in the system. When JEP functions within the OS tokens, many things like this will be
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 1, 2006
          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Bowers" <richard.bowers@...> wrote:
          > So how about a FREQ for an output sheet token that can be used in an if
          > statement, with a return value based on whether or not points are being
          > used. It would be crucial that this not just be a string token that
          returns
          > something that can't be compared using existing logic - it has to be
          able to
          > be used in an if or other conditional statement. If we had that, I could
          > change the output sheet to output the points block only if they're using
          > points, and otherwise either expand the rest of the columns, or output
          > something else in place of points.
          >
          > That would save the headaches that I have with newbies wondering
          what the
          > Points section is and why it's important enough to be on the front
          of the
          > sheet, but also prevent us from turning off something that's undeniably
          > important.

          That FREQ is already in the system. When JEP functions within the OS
          tokens, many things like this will be possible...

          Chuck
          OS Chimp
        • Darkon
          ... appreciate ... the ... other ... Just understand that you do not represent 100% of the populatio or even the majority. Every group I ever interacted with
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 2, 2006
            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Truth <geeknz@...> wrote:
            >
            > On 6/2/06, Tod W. Milam <twmilam@...> wrote:
            > > --- "Derek J. Balling" <dredd@...> wrote:
            > > > > It's not useless. It's the number of points used to create a
            > > > > character
            > > > > using a Point-Buy system. Quite useful to me, and I
            appreciate
            > > > it's
            > > > > presence.
            > > >
            > > > How many people actually use point-buy systems, though?
            > >
            > > At least 2 of us. I certainly find it useful, both for policing
            the
            > > PCs and for creating my own NPCs.
            >
            > I think quite a few of us use this. I know I do, as do all the
            other
            > role-players I'm currently in contact with (at least 4 different
            > groups of 4 to 8 people each).

            Just understand that you do not represent 100% of the populatio or
            even the majority. Every group I ever interacted with in over 23
            years or PRing nover used the point buy system. We all prefer the
            variety of seeing how our luck fairs when generating a character, or
            simply having the convienience of simply converting an older edition
            AD&D character straight into the game - 18(95) strength and all
            (which btw converts to a 22 in 3rd edition).
          • Brass Tilde
            ... I ll point out that you offer no proof that *your* view is the majority, or even a significant minority, either. However, the point was that enough people,
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 2, 2006
              >> I think quite a few of us use this. I know I do, as do all the
              >> other role-players I'm currently in contact with (at least 4
              >> different groups of 4 to 8 people each).

              > Just understand that you do not represent 100% of the populatio or
              > even the majority. Every group I ever interacted with in over 23
              > years or PRing nover used the point buy system.

              I'll point out that you offer no proof that *your* view is the majority,
              or even a significant minority, either.

              However, the point was that enough people, whether a majority or not,
              find it useful that deleting such functionality, rather than fixing it,
              would appear to be unwarranted.

              > We all prefer the variety of seeing how our luck fairs when generating
              > a character, or simply having the convienience of simply converting an
              > older edition AD&D character straight into the game - 18(95) strength
              > and all

              Then by all means, do so, but don't deprive those of us who choose to do
              it differently of *our* convenience.

              If you want to suggest that the point display be suppressed for
              non-point-buy characters, that's great, but don't call for its complete
              removal.

              /bs
            • Eddy Anthony
              We really don t need to argue about this, should be able to accommodate everyone. I m seeing several trackers here: Code - GUI: Disable the display of points
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 2, 2006
                We really don't need to argue about this, should be able to accommodate
                everyone. I'm seeing several trackers here:

                Code - GUI: Disable the display of points used when no point buy system was
                used to create the character.

                Code - OS Token: We need some method to determine if a point-buy method is
                used to control the output of that info. Suggestion:

                IIF(HASPOINTBUY:YES)

                OS: Once we have a token in place adjust the sheets accordingly.


                Not related but mentioned in this thread is the display of race type and
                subtypes. Thanks to Aaron this feature is now supported and all the races in
                the RSRD and MSRD have been updated with this info, we now just need to
                update to display this info where appropriate.

                Code - GUI: Display Creature type and subtypes in the race info pane on the
                race tab and the race pane of the summary tab (if this is not already
                there).

                OS: Update the OS's to display race type and subtypes.


                Comments please, if no objections surface I'll enter these later this
                evening.
                --
                ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                ~ PCGen BoD, Data Content Second, Doc Chimp
              • Terry FitzSimons
                So far the three games that I have been in have used point-by systems. Terry ... -- Terry FitzSimons FITZSIMONS@MINTEL.NET(Small Letters Only) Data Lemur, Docs
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 2, 2006
                  So far the three games that I have been in have used point-by systems.

                  Terry

                  On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:22:03 -0400, you wrote:

                  >> It's not useless. It's the number of points used to create a
                  >> character
                  >> using a Point-Buy system. Quite useful to me, and I appreciate it's
                  >> presence.
                  >
                  >How many people actually use point-buy systems, though?
                  >
                  >And half the time, I agree with the OP, that the number which is in
                  >there is clearly borked (0, negative, etc.)
                  >
                  >Cheers,
                  >D
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  --

                  Terry FitzSimons
                  FITZSIMONS@...(Small Letters Only)

                  Data Lemur, Docs Lemur
                • Kevin Brown
                  ... Even for non-point buy players it can serve a purpose. Such as seeing how many times one has rolled to get the current character or how many points they
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 5, 2006
                    >>>>> It's not useless. It's the number of points used to create a
                    >>>>> character using a Point-Buy system. Quite useful to me, and
                    >>>>> I appreciate it's presence.
                    >>>> How many people actually use point-buy systems, though?
                    >>> At least 2 of us. I certainly find it useful, both for policing
                    >>> the PCs and for creating my own NPCs.
                    >> I think quite a few of us use this. I know I do, as do all the
                    >> other role-players I'm currently in contact with (at least 4
                    >> different groups of 4 to 8 people each).
                    >
                    > Just understand that you do not represent 100% of the populatio or
                    > even the majority. Every group I ever interacted with in over 23
                    > years or PRing nover used the point buy system. We all prefer the
                    > variety of seeing how our luck fairs when generating a character, or
                    > simply having the convienience of simply converting an older edition
                    > AD&D character straight into the game - 18(95) strength and all
                    > (which btw converts to a 22 in 3rd edition).

                    Even for non-point buy players it can serve a purpose. Such as seeing
                    how many times one has rolled to get the current character or how many
                    points they have tweaked around on the character after the roll. Etools
                    that came with the 3rd Ed Player's Handbook did this.
                  • taluroniscandar
                    ... Etools ... We don t use point buy and all I ever see there is -1 or 0 . It doesn t show me how many points I ve tweaked that I ve ever seen. [search]
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 6, 2006
                      > Even for non-point buy players it can serve a purpose. Such as seeing
                      > how many times one has rolled to get the current character or how many
                      > points they have tweaked around on the character after the roll.
                      Etools
                      > that came with the 3rd Ed Player's Handbook did this.
                      >

                      We don't use point buy and all I ever see there is "-1" or "0".
                      It doesn't show me how many points I've tweaked that I've ever seen.
                      [search] Nope just looked at several pdf's and they all show -1 or 0,
                      mostly 0.
                      Are you saying to add this as a feature?
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