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[pcgen] BoD log - 5/31/06 - Reformatted for easier reading

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  • Andrew Wilson
    I hope no one minds that I reformat these. I find them easier to read like this and since I ve already done the work for me, I thought I d share it. [21:05]
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 1, 2006
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      I hope no one minds that I reformat these. I find them easier to read
      like this and since I've already done the work for me, I thought I'd
      share it.

      [21:05] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> alright, let's get started

      [21:05] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Code - Devon - go

      [21:05] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> I don't have much to say.

      [21:05] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> 5.10.1 rc1 went out

      [21:05] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> we'll try to get stuff closed faster for the next rev

      [21:06] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> we did a promotion of Aaron to Gibbon

      [21:06] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> that's about it

      [21:06] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> alright

      [21:06] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Content - Frank

      [21:06] <[Content_SB]Frank> Not much from me either.

      [21:07] <[Content_SB]Frank> The release was 2 days ago and with the long weekend nothing
      really happened.

      [21:07] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> alright

      [21:07] <[Content_SB]Frank> We have only 3 bugs open, mostly waiting for new reports
      right now.

      [21:07] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> cool

      [21:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> on the PR side, i've been swamped with RL, but i've been
      trying to bring Brian up to speed on the various publishers
      we have permissions with

      [21:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> other than that, not much happening here

      [21:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> so, now that the reports are done, let's get to Kar's agenda

      [21:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 1) Dungeon ad

      [21:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i've told Kar the amount we owe Paizo, but I don't know if
      he's sent them the $ yet or not

      [21:09] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Paizo did receive the ad Eddy did, so that end's taken care

      [21:09] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> cool

      [21:09] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i'll poke Kar tomorrow to see if the $ got sent

      [21:09] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 2) 5.10.1 RC1

      [21:10] <[Content_SB]Frank> If I understood his message right, then he was asking if
      they have to be paid now or when the ad is placed.

      [21:10] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i'll be honest, i haven't checked the roadmap recently to
      see what's left outstanding

      [21:10] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> pay now...and i sent him their PayPal account and the amount

      [21:11] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> ok, we should make sure that happens

      [21:12] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i agree

      [21:12] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Devon, Frank, what all is left in your shops for 5.10.1?

      [21:14] <[Content_SB]Frank> 2 Data Bugs, 1 is new, 1 is waiting for Tir's commit, and 1
      Docs bug, there is also 1 OS bug, but I have asked to take
      that one of the roadmap.

      [21:14] <[Content_SB]Frank> That's all that is left for Content at this time.

      [21:15] * [afk]Papa has quit IRC )

      [21:15] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> we have a bunch

      [21:15] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> 6 bugs in plugins

      [21:15] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> 12 other bugs

      [21:15] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> 2 freqs

      [21:16] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> Since 5.10.1 rc1, there has been no work that I'm aware of

      [21:16] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> my part of code has ground to a halt while I still get
      situated in New Jersey

      [21:17] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Devon, what are your thoughts on how much time is needed to
      deal with these bugs?

      [21:17] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> (I still don't actually *live* anywhere)

      [21:17] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> oh, you're in NJ? didn't realize you moved

      [21:17] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> yeah, that's why I disappeared for a month and a half

      [21:17] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> I moved from colorado

      [21:17] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> took a job as an architect at Vonage

      [21:18] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> none of these bugs look real bad, but it's a matter of
      someone getting time to do it

      [21:18] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> I should *finally* be free to do some code this weekend

      [21:18] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> so I'll see if I can't knock off a good chunk of them

      [21:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> So the 17th of June looks doable?

      [21:19] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> yeah

      [21:19] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> that's cool

      [21:19] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> this blends into

      [21:20] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 3) 5.10.1 and CMP

      [21:20] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> does anyone know where we stand on this?

      [21:21] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> no clue

      [21:21] <[Content_SB]Frank> Not really. The roadmap shows 1 Code Freq as CPM Freq.

      [21:21] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> I've been inncommunicado the whole time. what exactly

      [21:21] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> there were those flurry of emails about what CMP would like
      in PCGen...i know you responded t it

      [21:21] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> oh, ok

      [21:21] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> those

      [21:21] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> responded to it even

      [21:22] <[Content_SB]Frank> I would think that most of those are 5.12 bound

      [21:22] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> yeah

      [21:22] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> some will back port

      [21:23] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> some won't

      [21:25] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> moving on

      [21:25] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 4)

      [21:25] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 4) teams

      [21:25] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> I know that Kar has been going through and removing inactive
      members from the various teams

      [21:25] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> have there been people, to anyone's knowledge, removed
      on accident?

      [21:25] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> has anyone figured out why kar so deeply enjoys
      de-populating teams?

      [21:25] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> ;)

      [21:26] <[Content_SB]Frank> Siggi Olafsson, but he has been readded already.

      [21:26] <AlphaSEQ> gives a better idea as to how many are really working
      on what...

      [21:26] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i'm pretty sure AlphaSEQ hit the nail on the head

      [21:27] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> fair enuf

      [21:28] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 5) 5.12

      [21:28] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Devon, what do you plan on doing for 5.12 (Reader's Digest
      please ;P )

      [21:29] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> the most important thing is to prepare for the new syntax

      [21:30] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> that has a whole lot of pieces and consequences

      [21:30] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> the main one being needing to ensure that every lst tag is
      capable of making the jump

      [21:30] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> and deprecating those that are not and writing a replacement
      tage for them

      [21:31] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> </digest>

      [21:32] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> cool

      [21:32] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Frank, any plans on your plate for 5.12?

      [21:33] <[Content_SB]Frank> Well, the Core sets were completed with this cycle. Most now
      will be waiting for Code Freqs to be implemented, so we can
      incorporate them in Data

      [21:34] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> what kind of code freqs are you waiting on?

      [21:34] <[Content_SB]Frank> Another thing for the Core sets will probably be adding more
      temporary Bonuses, to cover things that are optional

      [21:34] <[Content_SB]Frank> Abilities is not yet finished.

      [21:35] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> I would like to see a *whole lot more* temp bonuses

      [21:35] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> things like prayer, circle of protection, etc

      [21:35] <[Content_SB]Frank> Yes there is quite some stuff that only applies in certain
      situation, can can be covered by temp. Bon.

      [21:36] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> as well as general ones to give n+- bonus to any stat, any
      skill, attack, ac, or check

      [21:36] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> designed to give a gm flexibility

      [21:37] <[Content_SB]Frank> right, we will have to do a review of the data to see what
      exactly will be needed

      [21:38] <[Content_SB]Frank> Other than that I have been looking into various slightly
      different games, where I would like to see if we could cover
      them with PCGen.

      [21:38] <[Content_SB]Frank> Games like Mutants and Masterminds, True20, BESM, Runequest

      [21:39] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i know M&M was looked at some time ago, but it was
      determined (i wasn't involved in the looking) that code work
      is necessary to support it

      [21:39] <[Content_SB]Frank> These are quite close to normal d20 games

      [21:40] <[Content_SB]Frank> Yes, all of them will require some amount of code work.

      [21:41] <[Content_SB]Frank> Would it be possible to let a gamemode hide the summary tab,
      as well as other tabs?

      [21:41] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i think you can do that

      [21:42] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> its been a while since i even played around with that

      [21:42] <[Content_SB]Frank> I think once we can use abilities, a lot will happen on that
      tab for those gamemodes.

      [21:43] <[Content_SB]Frank> Meaning M&M,T20 and BESM

      [21:43] * [CM-SB]soulcatcher has (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

      [21:44] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i think you can not include a tab name in the
      miscinfo.lst file

      [21:44] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> but its been to long since i've played with it to know for

      [21:45] * [BD]merton_monk has joen

      [21:45] <[BD]merton_monk> ook, small crowd :)

      [21:46] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> hey Bryan...only 45 minutes late this time :D

      [21:46] <[BD]merton_monk> this is about as early as I can get here - kids are in bed

      [21:46] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> ah yes, i know that routine

      [21:46] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> fortunately, mine go to bed earlier

      [21:46] <[Content_SB]Frank> Paul, I can't express what I mean at the moment. I would
      have to show you. In the gamemode I just want to hide
      some tabs.

      [21:47] <[Content_SB]Frank> Hi Bryan

      [21:47] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> right...i think removing tab designations in miscinfo.lst
      will do the trick

      [21:47] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> or do you mean hide by "not present normally, but able to
      call it up if i want to" ?

      [21:47] <[BD]merton_monk> hi frank!

      [21:48] <[Content_SB]Frank> No, really hide. If Stats cost points, I don't want them to
      be raised on summary tab for free. I will set up a template
      instead to buy Stats.

      [21:49] <[Content_SB]Frank> And thus I want to hide the Summary tab.

      [21:49] <[BD]merton_monk> so you want to be able to set certain tabs as completely
      inaccessible, like Summary?

      [21:49] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> look at miscinfo.lst...i think you can do it by not naming
      the tab there

      [21:50] <[Content_SB]Frank> Bryan, right, talking about Mutants and Masterminds, True 20
      or BESM here.

      [21:50] <[BD]merton_monk> yeah, I think Paul is right, some of that ability is there,
      though I don't know if it extends to all the tabs or not

      [21:50] <[BD]merton_monk> tinker and see :)

      [21:51] <[Content_SB]Frank> heh, will do, once I find the time. :)

      [21:51] <[BD]merton_monk> I know that's an ability we've discussed for a long time, so
      I'm not sure how far it got completed

      [21:51] <[BD]merton_monk> time? what's that????

      [21:51] <[BD]merton_monk> heh

      [21:51] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> its a magazine :D

      [21:52] <[Content_SB]Frank> What I want to do will be easier, once abilities is
      complete. That should allow me to have ore subtabs on the
      Ability (Feats) tab

      [21:52] <[Content_SB]Frank> more subtabs

      [21:53] <[Content_SB]Frank> Well, that was longer than I wanted to be. Shall we move to
      the next agendo item or is there anything left to say?

      [21:54] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> the last agenda item Kar has was

      [21:54] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 6) keep roadmap up to date when Kar goes on vacation

      [21:54] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> he recommends Papa do this, as he's the next senior
      Admin monkey

      [21:55] <[Content_SB]Frank> We'll need to hear from David on this, he isn't here today.

      [21:56] <[BD]merton_monk> I haven't checked, but is the roadmap on the wiki?

      [21:57] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> yep

      [21:57] <[BD]merton_monk> excellent. wikis are great!

      [21:59] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> we now have open discussion

      [21:59] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> anything else for the good of the order?

      [21:59] <[Content_SB]Frank> I'd like to talk about Intanationalization and how we want
      to organize it.

      [21:59] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> go ahead

      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> Pasting from my mail on the BOD

      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> - How would we deal with foreign language content, if the
      foreign speaker

      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> leaves the team? Not only maintenance would be a problem,
      but also legal

      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> problems, if we get claims that the foreign language files
      do contain non

      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> open content.

      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> - Would we be willing to distribute foreign language content
      ourselves, or

      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> should we see that those interested in doing those files
      form international

      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> teams that do a distribution on their own?

      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> - Do we use the files section at Experimental for initial
      uploading? What

      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> process will be needed? OGL will hardly be capable to check
      these files.

      [22:01] <[Content_SB]Frank> The reason I come up with this is we have an Italian user
      who really wants to get an Italian version done.

      [22:03] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> I like the idea of supporting international versions

      [22:03] <[Content_SB]Frank> Any suggestion?

      [22:03] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> however, you're right that OGL, unless they speak the
      language in question, would have a difficult time, at best,
      to determine if it meets the guidelines

      [22:04] <[Content_SB]Frank> Right. That is a problem

      [22:06] <[Content_SB]Frank> This would speak for letting foreign speakers do their own

      [22:06] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> I think that's probably the safest policy

      [22:06] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> However

      [22:06] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Bryan, don't you own the name PCGen?

      [22:07] <[BD]merton_monk> I've never actually paid to have it entered as a trademark,
      though part of trademark is that it is generally known that
      a particular

      [22:08] <[BD]merton_monk> intellectual property belongs to someone

      [22:08] <[BD]merton_monk> so while I think I'm covered on that score, I probably
      should pay the legal fee to just make it a bit more

      [22:09] <[BD]merton_monk> How does that figure into the discussion of

      [22:09] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> if the groups wanted to say they had <insert language here>
      PCGen datasets

      [22:10] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> since you own the name, you'd have to know they existed for
      them to say they had PCGen datasets

      [22:11] <[BD]merton_monk> oh, I see where you're going

      [22:11] <[BD]merton_monk> That's not just an internationalization thing, that really
      applies to anyone who wants to claim they are compliant
      with PCGen

      [22:12] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> true, but we have the internationalization thing here in
      front of us

      [22:13] <[BD]merton_monk> ok - let me see if I have the issue right

      [22:14] <[BD]merton_monk> an italian user wants to distribute PCGen compatible data

      [22:15] <[BD]merton_monk> is this meant to be included in PCGen itself, or as a
      separate data download?

      [22:15] <[BD]merton_monk> i.e. where would the data be hosted?

      [22:16] <[BD]merton_monk> ah - I see frank's earlier comments

      [22:16] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> right

      [22:16] <[Content_SB]Frank> That is part of the discussion we need to do. Currently that
      guy has just asked to make a translation.

      [22:16] <[BD]merton_monk> ok, in the OGL there is a 30-day clause for 'fixing' any OGL
      violations that are found

      [22:17] <[BD]merton_monk> Maintenance would be difficult, so we'd have to assume that
      italian speakers would be able to fix any bugs

      [22:17] <[BD]merton_monk> We should include in the data an email address or some
      way to contact those who created the data and are capable
      of fixing it

      [22:18] <[BD]merton_monk> We should also make it clear to whoever crafts the data that
      should any OGL violations be found, we won't be able to
      determine whether its true or not

      [22:18] <[Content_SB]Frank> The problem is, if we have one speaker of a language and he
      suddenly disappears

      [22:19] <[BD]merton_monk> in which case the data would be pulled immediately until the
      data was fixed, and the person who brought the violation to
      light (or another italian speaker) agreed

      [22:19] <[BD]merton_monk> if we can't find an italian speaker to deal with the OGL
      violation, the data gets pulled, end of story

      [22:20] <[BD]merton_monk> We should also make sure that the publisher of the data has
      no problem with the data being in italian

      [22:20] <[Content_SB]Frank> That means we can't put the data up in SVN, as we cannot
      physically remove it from there.

      [22:20] <[BD]merton_monk> I think SF can remove stuff more permanently if we
      specifically request it

      [22:20] <[BD]merton_monk> we had to do that when we became OGL compliant with
      version 4.0

      [22:21] <[BD]merton_monk> At least I assume they can do that with SVN like they did

      [22:21] <[Content_SB]Frank> Ah, OK. I would think that should still be possible.

      [22:21] <[BD]merton_monk> The chances of anyone bringing any OGL violations to light
      are pretty slim

      [22:21] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i'm still more inclined to lean to the separate group though

      [22:22] <[BD]merton_monk> I personally don't mind which way you guys want to do.
      legally I think we'd be fine having it in SVN

      [22:23] <[BD]merton_monk> I'd be pleased if we could make PCGen more useful to
      non-english speakers! :)

      [22:23] <[BD]merton_monk> Now if we could only get it in braille....

      [22:23] <[Content_SB]Frank> Forming and organizing a seperate group might be asking too
      much from a single user who just wants to help a bit.

      [22:24] <[BD]merton_monk> we should attempt to get the email addresses of a few
      italian speakers who could potentially address bugs and
      other issues

      [22:24] <[BD]merton_monk> I believe I stumbled across a PCGen-oriented italian forum a
      long time ago, so I think there are others around

      [22:24] <[Docs_2nd]Boomer> I would be willing to help with organising a separate group
      if we want to go that way

      [22:25] <[BD]merton_monk> Or maybe it was just a dnd-related forum

      [22:26] <[BD]merton_monk> You might look to see if an appropriate forum already exists

      [22:26] <[BD]merton_monk> and leverage that existing group, they might be pleased with
      the idea of helping out

      [22:26] <[Content_SB]Frank> There was at least a second Italian user replying on
      experimental, but I do not know if he could be talked into
      doing some work.

      [22:27] <[BD]merton_monk> ask them if there's a place we would have a bunch of italian
      speakers who might be interested in helping

      [22:27] <[BD]merton_monk> so we can get as many contact addresses as possible to
      protect against the one helper dropping out

      [22:28] <[BD]merton_monk> maybe even post on our own yahoo board, we've got to have a
      few italians among us :)

      [22:28] <[Content_SB]Frank> OK, I will look around and post.

      [22:29] <[BD]merton_monk> thanks, frank!

      [22:29] <[Content_SB]Frank> I think we should also ask them how they would prefer to
      deal with this. If they wanted a seperate group, let
      them have it.

      [22:29] <[BD]merton_monk> sounds fair to me

      [22:30] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> sounds good to me as well

      [22:31] <[Content_SB]Frank> If we start moving with this, I remember the was also a guy
      some ago who wanted to do a spanish (or was it portuguese?)
      translation. We might ask him too.

      [22:31] <[BD]merton_monk> the more the merrier!

      [22:31] <[BD]merton_monk> we've had a lot of offers to do work in other languages

      [22:32] <[BD]merton_monk> though it seems like a lot of them offer, then rapidly fall

      [22:32] <[BD]merton_monk> some of that might be because we simply couldn't take them
      up on their offer fast enough

      [22:33] <[Content_SB]Frank> True. But we have a lot of members who drop out within 6
      months. If that happens with a foreign speaker, it might
      hurt more.

      [22:34] <[BD]merton_monk> we should make a comment in the data that we can't vouch for
      its accuracy, user beware

      [22:34] <[Docs_2nd]Boomer> Then lets find a German user since I know we have a German
      speaker who will stick around :)

      [22:35] * Fitzs has joined #pcge

      [22:35] <[Content_SB]Frank> Hehe.

      [22:35] <[BD]merton_monk> I only know one phrase in German, and it's an insult.... :)

      [22:35] <AlphaSEQ> du hast ein vogel

      [22:35] <[Docs_2nd]Boomer> I am a jelly donut?

      [22:35] <[BD]merton_monk> where's that babelfish????

      [22:36] <[BD]merton_monk> du bist ein dicke frau

      [22:36] <[BD]merton_monk> or something like that

      [22:36] <AlphaSEQ> Ich bin ein berliner <-- that is "I am a Jelly Donut"

      [22:36] <AlphaSEQ> du hast ein vogel <-- "You have the brain of a bird"

      [22:36] <[BD]merton_monk> du bist ein dicke frau <-- you are a fat lady

      [22:37] <[BD]merton_monk> or so I'm told ;)

      [22:37] <[Content_SB]Frank> Well, I know a couple more insults in English, but I'm
      afraid I could not post 'em here. ;-)

      [22:37] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> lol

      [22:37] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> so, anything else?

      [22:38] <[Content_SB]Frank> Not from me.

      [22:39] <[Content_SB]Frank> Or were you asking for German insults?

      [22:39] <[BD]merton_monk> I know an insult in chinese as well, and quite a few
      in french...

      [22:39] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> no, i meant PCGen related

      [22:40] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> if you want to insult each other in foreign tongues, go
      right ahead

      [22:40] <[Content_SB]Frank> Chinese Insult? Is your local takeaway that bad?

      [22:41] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> alright, i'll see y'all later

      [22:41] <[BD]merton_monk> I took 2 years of chinese

      [22:41] <[Content_SB]Frank> good night, Paul.

      [22:41] <[BD]merton_monk> ok - thanks for all your work guys!

      [22:41] * Disconnected

      Session Close: Wed May 31 22:41:57 2006

      ----- End forwarded message -----

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