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BoD log - 5/31/06

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  • Paul W. King
    [21:05] alright, let s get started [21:05] Code - Devon - go [21:05] I don t have much to say. [21:05]
    Message 1 of 1 , May 31, 2006
      [21:05] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> alright, let's get started
      [21:05] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Code - Devon - go
      [21:05] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> I don't have much to say.
      [21:05] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> 5.10.1 rc1 went out
      [21:05] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> we'll try to get stuff closed faster for the
      next rev
      [21:06] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> we did a promotion of Aaron to Gibbon
      [21:06] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> that's about it
      [21:06] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> alright
      [21:06] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Content - Frank
      [21:06] <[Content_SB]Frank> Not much from me either.
      [21:07] <[Content_SB]Frank> The release was 2 days ago and with the long
      weekend nothing really happened.
      [21:07] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> alright
      [21:07] <[Content_SB]Frank> We have only 3 bugs open, mostly waiting for new
      reports right now.
      [21:07] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> cool
      [21:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> on the PR side, i've been swamped with RL, but
      i've been trying to bring Brian up to speed on the various publishers we
      have permissions with
      [21:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> other than that, not much happening here
      [21:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> so, now that the reports are done, let's get to
      Kar's agenda
      [21:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 1) Dungeon ad
      [21:08] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i've told Kar the amount we owe Paizo, but i don't
      know if he's sent them the $ yet or not
      [21:09] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Paizo did receive the ad Eddy did, so that end's
      taken care of
      [21:09] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> cool
      [21:09] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i'll poke Kar tomorrow to see if the $ got sent
      [21:09] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 2) 5.10.1 RC1
      [21:10] <[Content_SB]Frank> If I understood his message right, then he was
      asking if they have to be paid now or when the ad is placed.
      [21:10] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i'll be honest, i haven't checked the roadmap
      recently to see what's left outstanding
      [21:10] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> pay now...and i sent him their PayPal account and
      the amount
      [21:11] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> ok, we should make sure that happens
      [21:12] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i agree
      [21:12] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Devon, Frank, what all is left in your shops for
      [21:14] <[Content_SB]Frank> 2 Data Bugs, 1 is new, 1 is waiting for Tir's
      commit, and 1 Docs bug, there is also 1 OS bug, but I have asked to take
      that one of the roadmap.
      [21:14] <[Content_SB]Frank> That's all that is left for Content at this
      [21:15] * [afk]Papa has quit IRC (Quit: )
      [21:15] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> we have a bunch
      [21:15] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> 6 bugs in plugins
      [21:15] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> 12 other bugs
      [21:15] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> 2 freqs
      [21:16] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> since 5.10.1 rc1, there has been no work that
      I'm aware of
      [21:16] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> my part of code has ground to a halt while I
      still get situated in New Jersey
      [21:17] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Devon, what are your thoughts on how much time is
      needed to deal with these bugs?
      [21:17] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> (I still don't actually *live* anywhere)
      [21:17] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> oh, you're in NJ? didn't realize you moved
      [21:17] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> yeah, that's why I disappeared for a month and
      a half
      [21:17] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> I moved from colorado
      [21:17] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> took a job as an architect at Vonage
      [21:18] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> none of these bugs look real bad, but it's a
      matter of someone getting time to do it
      [21:18] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> I should *finally* be free to do some code this
      [21:18] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> so I'll see if I can't knock off a good chunk
      of them
      [21:19] <[Content_SB]Frank> So the 17th of June looks doable?
      [21:19] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> yeah
      [21:19] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> that's cool
      [21:19] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> this blends into
      [21:20] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 3) 5.10.1 and CMP
      [21:20] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> does anyone know where we stand on this?
      [21:21] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> no clue
      [21:21] <[Content_SB]Frank> Not really. The roadmap shows 1 Code Freq as CPM
      [21:21] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> I've been inncommunicado the whole time. what
      exactly happened?
      [21:21] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> there were those flurry of emails about what CMP
      would like in PCGen...i know you responded t it
      [21:21] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> oh, ok
      [21:21] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> those
      [21:21] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> responded to it even
      [21:22] <[Content_SB]Frank> I would think that most of those are 5.12 bound
      [21:22] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> yeah
      [21:22] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> some will back port
      [21:23] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> some won't
      [21:25] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> moving on
      [21:25] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 4)
      [21:25] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 4) teams
      [21:25] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i know that Kar has been going through and
      removing inactive members from the various teams
      [21:25] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> have there been people, to anyone's knowledge,
      removed on accident?
      [21:25] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> has anyone figured out why kar so deeply enjoys
      de-populating teams?
      [21:25] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> ;)
      [21:26] <[Content_SB]Frank> Siggi Olafsson, but he has been readded already.
      [21:26] <AlphaSEQ> gives a better idea as to how many are really working on
      [21:26] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i'm pretty sure AlphaSEQ hit the nail on the head
      [21:27] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> fair enuf
      [21:28] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 5) 5.12
      [21:28] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Devon, what do you plan on doing for 5.12
      (Reader's Digest please ;P )
      [21:29] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> the most important thing is to prepare for the
      new syntax
      [21:30] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> that has a whole lot of pieces and consequences
      [21:30] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> the main one being needing to ensure that every
      lst tag is capable of making the jump
      [21:30] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> and deprecating those that are not and writing
      a replacement tage for them
      [21:31] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> </digest>
      [21:32] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> cool
      [21:32] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Frank, any plans on your plate for 5.12?
      [21:33] <[Content_SB]Frank> Well, the Core sets were completed with this
      cycle. Most now will be waiting for Code Freqs to be implemented, so we can
      incorporate them in Data
      [21:34] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> what kind of code freqs are you waiting on?
      [21:34] <[Content_SB]Frank> Another thing for the Core sets will probably be
      adding more temporary Bonuses, to cover things that are optional
      [21:34] <[Content_SB]Frank> Abilities is not yet finished.
      [21:35] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> I would like to see a *whole lot more* temp
      [21:35] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> things like prayer, circle of protection, etc
      [21:35] <[Content_SB]Frank> Yes there is quite some stuff that only applies
      in certain situation, can can be covered by temp. Bon.
      [21:36] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> as well as general ones to give n+- bonus to
      any stat, any skill, attack, ac, or check
      [21:36] <[CM-SB]soulcatcher> designed to give a gm flexibility
      [21:37] <[Content_SB]Frank> right, we will have to do a review of the data
      to see what exactly will be needed
      [21:38] <[Content_SB]Frank> Other than that I have been looking into various
      slightly different games, where I would like to see if we could cover them
      with PCGen.
      [21:38] <[Content_SB]Frank> Games like Mutants and Masterminds, True20,
      BESM, Runequest
      [21:39] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i know M&M was looked at some time ago, but it was
      determined (i wasn't involved in the looking) that code work is necessary to
      support it
      [21:39] <[Content_SB]Frank> These are quite close to normal d20 games
      [21:40] <[Content_SB]Frank> Yes, all of them will require some amount of
      code work.
      [21:41] <[Content_SB]Frank> Would it be possible to let a gamemode hide the
      summary tab, as well as other tabs?
      [21:41] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i think you can do that
      [21:42] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> its been a while since i even played around with
      that concept
      [21:42] <[Content_SB]Frank> I think once we can use abilities, a lot will
      happen on that tab for those gamemodes.
      [21:43] <[Content_SB]Frank> Meaning M&M,T20 and BESM
      [21:43] * [CM-SB]soulcatcher has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by
      [21:44] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i think you can not include a tab name in the
      miscinfo.lst file
      [21:44] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> but its been to long since i've played with it to
      know for sure
      [21:45] * [BD]merton_monk has joined #pcgen
      [21:45] <[BD]merton_monk> ook, small crowd :)
      [21:46] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> hey Bryan...only 45 minutes late this time :D
      [21:46] <[BD]merton_monk> this is about as early as I can get here - kids
      are in bed now
      [21:46] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> ah yes, i know that routine
      [21:46] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> fortunately, mine go to bed earlier
      [21:46] <[Content_SB]Frank> Paul, I can't express what I mean at the moment.
      I would have to show you. In the gamemode I just want to hide some tabs.
      [21:47] <[Content_SB]Frank> Hi Bryan
      [21:47] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> right...i think removing tab designations in
      miscinfo.lst will do the trick
      [21:47] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> or do you mean hide by "not present normally, but
      able to call it up if i want to" ?
      [21:47] <[BD]merton_monk> hi frank!
      [21:48] <[Content_SB]Frank> No, really hide. If Stats cost points, I don't
      want them to be raised on summary tab for free. I will set up a template
      instead to buy Stats.
      [21:49] <[Content_SB]Frank> And thus I want to hide the Summary tab.
      [21:49] <[BD]merton_monk> so you want to be able to set certain tabs as
      completely inaccessible, like Summary?
      [21:49] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> look at miscinfo.lst...i think you can do it by
      not naming the tab there
      [21:50] <[Content_SB]Frank> Bryan, right, talking about Mutants and
      Masterminds, True 20 or BESM here.
      [21:50] <[BD]merton_monk> yeah, I think Paul is right, some of that ability
      is there, though I don't know if it extends to all the tabs or not
      [21:50] <[BD]merton_monk> tinker and see :)
      [21:51] <[Content_SB]Frank> heh, will do, once I find the time. :)
      [21:51] <[BD]merton_monk> I know that's an ability we've discussed for a
      long time, so I'm not sure how far it got completed
      [21:51] <[BD]merton_monk> time? what's that????
      [21:51] <[BD]merton_monk> heh
      [21:51] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> its a magazine :D
      [21:52] <[Content_SB]Frank> What I want to do will be easier, once abilities
      is complete. That should allow me to have ore subtabs on the Ability (Feats)
      [21:52] <[Content_SB]Frank> more subtabs
      [21:53] <[Content_SB]Frank> Well, that was longer than I wanted to be. Shall
      we move to the next agendo item or is there anything left to say?
      [21:54] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> the last agenda item Kar has was
      [21:54] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> 6) keep roadmap up to date when Kar goes on
      [21:54] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> he recommends Papa do this, as he's the next
      senior Admin monkey
      [21:55] <[Content_SB]Frank> We'll need to hear from David on this, he isn't
      here today.
      [21:56] <[BD]merton_monk> I haven't checked, but is the roadmap on the wiki?
      [21:57] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> yep
      [21:57] <[BD]merton_monk> excellent. wikis are great!
      [21:59] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> we now have open discussion
      [21:59] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> anything else for the good of the order?
      [21:59] <[Content_SB]Frank> I'd like to talk about Intanationalization and
      how we want to organize it.
      [21:59] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> go ahead
      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> Pasting from my mail on the BOD
      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> - How would we deal with foreign language
      content, if the foreign speaker
      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> leaves the team? Not only maintenance would be a
      problem, but also legal
      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> problems, if we get claims that the foreign
      language files do contain non
      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> open content.
      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> - Would we be willing to distribute foreign
      language content ourselves, or
      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> should we see that those interested in doing
      those files form international
      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> teams that do a distribution on their own?
      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> - Do we use the files section at Experimental
      for initial uploading? What
      [22:00] <[Content_SB]Frank> process will be needed? OGL will hardly be
      capable to check these files.
      [22:01] <[Content_SB]Frank> The reason I come up with this is we have an
      Italian user who really wants to get an Italian version done.
      [22:03] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i like the idea of supporting international
      [22:03] <[Content_SB]Frank> Any suggestion?
      [22:03] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> however, you're right that OGL, unless they speak
      the language in question, would have a difficult time, at best, to determine
      if it meets the guidelines
      [22:04] <[Content_SB]Frank> Right. That is a problem
      [22:06] <[Content_SB]Frank> This would speak for letting foreign speakers do
      their own distribution.
      [22:06] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i think that's probably the safest policy
      [22:06] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> however
      [22:06] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> Bryan, don't you own the name PCGen?
      [22:07] <[BD]merton_monk> I've never actually paid to have it entered as a
      trademark, though part of trademark is that it is generally known that a
      [22:08] <[BD]merton_monk> intellectual property belongs to someone
      [22:08] <[BD]merton_monk> so while I think I'm covered on that score, I
      probably should pay the legal fee to just make it a bit more air-tight
      [22:09] <[BD]merton_monk> How does that figure into the discussion of
      [22:09] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> if the groups wanted to say they had <insert
      language here> PCGen datasets
      [22:10] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> since you own the name, you'd have to know they
      existed for them to say they had PCGen datasets
      [22:11] <[BD]merton_monk> oh, I see where you're going
      [22:11] <[BD]merton_monk> That's not just an internationalization thing,
      that really applies to anyone who wants to claim they are compliant with
      [22:12] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> true, but we have the internationalization thing
      here in front of us
      [22:13] <[BD]merton_monk> ok - let me see if I have the issue right
      [22:14] <[BD]merton_monk> an italian user wants to distribute PCGen
      compatible data sets
      [22:15] <[BD]merton_monk> is this meant to be included in PCGen itself, or
      as a separate data download?
      [22:15] <[BD]merton_monk> i.e. where would the data be hosted?
      [22:16] <[BD]merton_monk> ah - I see frank's earlier comments
      [22:16] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> right
      [22:16] <[Content_SB]Frank> That is part of the discussion we need to do.
      Currently that guy has just asked to make a translation.
      [22:16] <[BD]merton_monk> ok, in the OGL there is a 30-day clause for
      'fixing' any OGL violations that are found
      [22:17] <[BD]merton_monk> Maintenance would be difficult, so we'd have to
      assume that italian speakers would be able to fix any bugs
      [22:17] <[BD]merton_monk> We should include in the data an email address or
      some way to contact those who created the data and are capable of fixing it
      [22:18] <[BD]merton_monk> We should also make it clear to whoever crafts the
      data that should any OGL violations be found, we won't be able to determine
      whether its true or not
      [22:18] <[Content_SB]Frank> The problem is, if we have one speaker of a
      language and he suddenly disappears
      [22:19] <[BD]merton_monk> in which case the data would be pulled immediately
      until the data was fixed, and the person who brought the violation to light
      (or another italian speaker) agreed
      [22:19] <[BD]merton_monk> if we can't find an italian speaker to deal with
      the OGL violation, the data gets pulled, end of story
      [22:20] <[BD]merton_monk> We should also make sure that the publisher of the
      data has no problem with the data being in italian
      [22:20] <[Content_SB]Frank> That means we can't put the data up in SVN, as
      we cannot physically remove it from there.
      [22:20] <[BD]merton_monk> I think SF can remove stuff more permanently if we
      specifically request it
      [22:20] <[BD]merton_monk> we had to do that when we became OGL compliant
      with version 4.0
      [22:21] <[BD]merton_monk> At least I assume they can do that with SVN like
      they did cvs
      [22:21] <[Content_SB]Frank> Ah, OK. I would think that should still be
      [22:21] <[BD]merton_monk> The chances of anyone bringing any OGL violations
      to light are pretty slim
      [22:21] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> i'm still more inclined to lean to the separate
      group though
      [22:22] <[BD]merton_monk> I personally don't mind which way you guys want to
      do. legally I think we'd be fine having it in SVN
      [22:23] <[BD]merton_monk> I'd be pleased if we could make PCGen more useful
      to non-english speakers! :)
      [22:23] <[BD]merton_monk> Now if we could only get it in braille....
      [22:23] <[Content_SB]Frank> Forming and organizing a seperate group might be
      asking too much from a single user who just wants to help a bit.
      [22:24] <[BD]merton_monk> we should attempt to get the email addresses of a
      few italian speakers who could potentially address bugs and other issues
      [22:24] <[BD]merton_monk> I believe I stumbled across a PCGen-oriented
      italian forum a long time ago, so I think there are others around
      [22:24] <[Docs_2nd]Boomer> I would be willing to help with organising a
      separate group if we want to go that way
      [22:25] <[BD]merton_monk> Or maybe it was just a dnd-related forum
      [22:26] <[BD]merton_monk> You might look to see if an appropriate forum
      already exists
      [22:26] <[BD]merton_monk> and leverage that existing group, they might be
      pleased with the idea of helping out
      [22:26] <[Content_SB]Frank> There was at least a second Italian user
      replying on experimental, but I do not know if he could be talked into doing
      some work.
      [22:27] <[BD]merton_monk> ask them if there's a place we would have a bunch
      of italian speakers who might be interested in helping
      [22:27] <[BD]merton_monk> so we can get as many contact addresses as
      possible to protect against the one helper dropping out
      [22:28] <[BD]merton_monk> maybe even post on our own yahoo board, we've got
      to have a few italians among us :)
      [22:28] <[Content_SB]Frank> OK, I will look around and post.
      [22:29] <[BD]merton_monk> thanks, frank!
      [22:29] <[Content_SB]Frank> I think we should also ask them how they would
      prefer to deal with this. If they wanted a seperate group, let them have it.
      [22:29] <[BD]merton_monk> sounds fair to me
      [22:30] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> sounds good to me as well
      [22:31] <[Content_SB]Frank> If we start moving with this, I remember the was
      also a guy some ago who wanted to do a spanish (or was it portuguese?)
      translation. We might ask him too.
      [22:31] <[BD]merton_monk> the more the merrier!
      [22:31] <[BD]merton_monk> we've had a lot of offers to do work in other
      [22:32] <[BD]merton_monk> though it seems like a lot of them offer, then
      rapidly fall away
      [22:32] <[BD]merton_monk> some of that might be because we simply couldn't
      take them up on their offer fast enough
      [22:33] <[Content_SB]Frank> True. But we have a lot of members who drop out
      within 6 months. If that happens with a foreign speaker, it might hurt more.
      [22:34] <[BD]merton_monk> we should make a comment in the data that we can't
      vouch for its accuracy, user beware
      [22:34] <[Docs_2nd]Boomer> Then lets find a German user since I know we have
      a German speaker who will stick around :)
      [22:35] * Fitzs has joined #pcgen
      [22:35] <[Content_SB]Frank> Hehe.
      [22:35] <[BD]merton_monk> I only know one phrase in German, and it's an
      insult.... :)
      [22:35] <AlphaSEQ> du hast ein vogel
      [22:35] <[Docs_2nd]Boomer> I am a jelly donut?
      [22:35] <[BD]merton_monk> where's that babelfish????
      [22:36] <[BD]merton_monk> du bist ein dicke frau
      [22:36] <[BD]merton_monk> or something like that
      [22:36] <AlphaSEQ> Ich bin ein berliner <-- that is "I am a Jelly Donut"
      [22:36] <AlphaSEQ> du hast ein vogel <-- "You have the brain of a bird"
      [22:36] <[BD]merton_monk> du bist ein dicke frau <-- you are a fat lady
      [22:37] <[BD]merton_monk> or so I'm told ;)
      [22:37] <[Content_SB]Frank> Well, I know a couple more insults in English,
      but I'm afraid I could not post 'em here. ;-)
      [22:37] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> lol
      [22:37] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> so, anything else?
      [22:38] <[Content_SB]Frank> Not from me.
      [22:39] <[Content_SB]Frank> Or were you asking for German insults?
      [22:39] <[BD]merton_monk> I know an insult in chinese as well, and quite a
      few in french...
      [22:39] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> no, i meant PCGen related
      [22:40] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> if you want to insult each other in foreign
      tongues, go right ahead
      [22:40] <[Content_SB]Frank> Chinese Insult? Is your local takeaway that bad?
      [22:41] <[PR_SB]kingpaul> alright, i'll see y'all later
      [22:41] <[BD]merton_monk> I took 2 years of chinese
      [22:41] <[Content_SB]Frank> good night, Paul.
      [22:41] <[BD]merton_monk> ok - thanks for all your work guys!
      [22:41] * Disconnected
      Session Close: Wed May 31 22:41:57 2006

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