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Re: NOT HAPPY !!! (Was: Re: [pcgen][bug] Willpower vs. Will - NOT working)

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  • Eddy Anthony
    On 5/3/06 9:31 AM, pkukwork ... Hi pkukwork As Content Silverback for the 5.10 series I made that decision and
    Message 1 of 44 , May 3, 2006
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      On 5/3/06 9:31 AM, "pkukwork" <philippe.krait@...>
      wrote:

      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Latest Release version.
      >>
      >> Load up my stuff, and I find that unless I change all the will saves
      >> checks to willpower save checks all my will saves are 0. I know this
      >> isn't what is supposed to happen, cause according to the release notes
      >> all WILLPOWER was supposed to be changed to Will.
      >
      > I had not noticed this, and I know that it is not nice to complain
      > that way about a free software maintained by dedicated fans, but I
      > find it really not acceptable to make such changes.
      >
      > I am using data sets that were bought from CMP. Now, to get PCGen to
      > work, I ned to go over all that data and change by hand all the
      > Willpower to WILL ?
      >
      > Come on, who makes that kind of decision ? What's the point ? How can
      > you change something like that preventing backwards compatibility for
      > so many data sets, including commercial ones ?

      Hi pkukwork
      As Content Silverback for the 5.10 series I made that decision and I'd
      be happy to explain it. First some points:

      First off the function of defining the check names is done in the gameMode
      and is thus a function of data not code. This means that CMP is free to use
      "Willpower", "Will", "Guts" or whatever they want to use, the Open Sources
      decision by the data team to change this to the correct term has no effect
      on CMP datasets what-so-ever. The OS data and CMP's data is not currently
      compatible so this is not a compatibility issue either.

      Second, this does not effect characters made before the change because the
      check name is not referenced in the character file, it is set in the
      gameMode and adjusted by the data so a character created before and loaded
      with the new data should see no difference.

      For folks who maintain their own datasets the change will need to be made to
      maintain compatibility. But even if you can't run prettylst (and it took me
      a while to grok it so I understand) it is a relatively simple find and
      replace bit of work.

      > To be honest, I was already annoyed in the past with continual changes
      > to names here and there, like pen (ink) to ink pen, etc. I maintain
      > 80+ character sheets and beleive me, this is really annoying when the
      > items simply disappear from the sheets on reloading.
      >
      > By the way it happened again on this version with "oil of magic
      > weapon" becoming "Potion (Oil of Magic Weapon)". Many character have
      > this and when I load them, these items just disappear, and I need to
      > open the pcg file tos ee how many they had, buy them again, etc...
      >
      > All of what for what, exactly ?

      There are various reasons for changes to the equipment names, the example
      you cite above is done for consistency as it will group all the related
      items (Potions) in the same place on the list. Another reason is removing
      comma's or other characters which should not be used in an items name.
      Comma's in an items name can cause problems internally and when we find them
      we reformat the name and include an OUTPUTNAME tag with the comma's in it if
      it requires it.

      A simple solution is to stick with one release for the duration of your
      campaign. How often do you upgrade? The Alpha releases are meant for
      development and you can expect to encounter problems. For my own campaign I
      stick with the latest production release. I stuck with 5.6 through my last
      campaign even when 5.8 came out to avoid the upgrade blues, it made since
      because we knew we were going to wrap it up in a few months and start
      something new.

      > But this thing about Willpower to WILL is really the most annoying one
      > so far. Will someone have the courage to epxlain that kind of decision ?

      Hopefully I have but I'm happy to answer any further questions.

      As you can tell from other posts this is not the first time this complaint
      has been made. It is taken seriously and ideas are being discussed on how
      best to deal with it. I myself have pushed for a LST converter which could
      convert homebrew datasets to the current standards, that did not make it
      into this release because of the unexpected deadline we were working under.

      In the future I hope we will see some mechanism for a painless character and
      dataset upgrade built into the program but we are not there yet.
      --
      ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
      ~ Former Content Silverback
      ~ PCGen BoD, Data Content Second, Doc Chimp
    • Derek J. Balling
      ... But if you re running the CMP files, you shouldn t ALSO be running the SRD files. You should be using the PHB/DMG/MM sets from CMP as well as whatever
      Message 44 of 44 , May 4, 2006
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        On May 4, 2006, at 4:41 AM, pkukwork wrote:
        > Of course I'm mixing. Who is not ? I don't think many people run a
        > "purely SRD" campaign, and I think that most people use at least the
        > Complete Series from WotC in their campaign. At least this is what I
        > find when I speak to most people I know or on mailing lists...

        But if you're running the CMP files, you shouldn't ALSO be running
        the SRD files. You should be using the PHB/DMG/MM sets from CMP as
        well as whatever "addons" you're using.

        It's that mixing of SRD and non-SRD (and PHB/DMG/MM in this context
        are non-SRD as they're the CMP renditions of those books) that will
        always always be a pain/nightmare/bugfest.

        Cheers,
        D
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