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Data Monkey Meeting log - 9/28/05

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  • Paul W. King
    ook ook. Hi, Paul howdy-ho how goes it? okay so far, how s family life?
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 29 7:40 PM
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      <kingpaul> ook
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> ook. Hi, Paul
      <kingpaul> howdy-ho
      <kingpaul> how goes it?
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> okay so far, how's family life?
      <kingpaul> pretty good.
      <kingpaul> the cold's running around the house
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> will you be logging the session today?
      <kingpaul> i'll try
      <[Content_SB]mosat> dang, you too? why is that happens right when the
      weather changes?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> hi guys
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> hi Eddy
      <kingpaul> because our body's don't want it to be not summer? :)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I've got a couple of trackers for you to look at Frank
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> what is it?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> [ 1170710 ] [MSRD] Weapon prof choice by creature type
      <[Content_SB]mosat>
      https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1170710&group_id=3
      6698&atid=417819
      <[Content_SB]mosat> in modern some creature type get to choose either
      Archaic weapons or simple
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I had come up with a solution but the KIT set up will
      make it not work
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yeah I'm waiting for the tracker to display
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> that darn satelite can be slow sometimes
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I was just wondering how important you think this is to
      modern playters
      <[Content_SB]mosat> er, modern players
      <kingpaul> why does KIT break a choice?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> it doesn't
      <[Content_SB]mosat> here's the thing
      <[Content_SB]mosat> it appear that default monsters always choose the simple
      prof
      <[Content_SB]mosat> if the CHOOSE is implemented from the type template or
      race then the choice happens during race selection
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> it would be nice to have, but I wouldn't consider it for
      5.8.1.
      <[Content_SB]mosat> since the kit is applied after that it has no say in the
      matter
      <kingpaul> i think i get it
      <[Content_SB]mosat> It's easy enough to do, I've already got it done really
      <[Content_SB]mosat> as long as a chooser window at race selection dosn't
      bother anyone
      <[Content_SB]mosat> but yeah, I'm not going to try this for 5.8.1
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> sorry, had to let the cat in
      <[Content_SB]mosat> hmm and I just thought of a way around the kit problem
      <[Content_SB]mosat> we have a REMOVE:FEAT tag now right? we can just remove
      the Archaic prof feat if it has been chosen
      <[Content_SB]mosat> problem solved
      <[Content_SB]mosat> OK I've got 9, I suppose we should start talking about
      data priorities
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> So it's just the 3 of us?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> who's in the house, I see lights on but it looks like
      nobady but us three are home
      <kingpaul> toilet cleaning? :D
      <[Content_SB]mosat> lets see you take that joke to showtime at the Apollo
      and get out alive ;-)
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> I just looked at windows messenger, but Tir is offline
      <kingpaul> ummm...no thanks :P
      * Papa-DRB has joined #pcgen
      <[Content_SB]mosat> he never did respond to say he could make it
      <[Content_SB]mosat> OK that makes four of us :D
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Papa-DRB, its David right?
      <Papa-DRB> right
      <[Content_SB]mosat> and Kar roped you in to do data trackers
      <[Content_SB]mosat> ?
      <Papa-DRB> Yup
      <[Content_SB]mosat> cool, what you think about the priority values (or maybe
      I should ask if you saw that post first)?
      <Papa-DRB> what post?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> let me find it
      <Papa-DRB> Wait.. Is it the one from you detailing what Px is for?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> yes
      <[Content_SB]mosat>
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/message/3683
      <Papa-DRB> got it... lots of mail
      <Papa-DRB> I just got back in from helping my son with his computer
      <[Content_SB]mosat> yeah, I got 200+ today
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> should those be used for OS as well?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> basically this is just for data, the other projects have
      diferent needs
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> k
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Although OS has a similar problem of sometimes needing
      code support
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> that's why I thought they might be used there as well
      <[Content_SB]mosat> yeah, we could use the same system for docs if Chucks OK
      with that
      <[Content_SB]mosat> sorry I meant OS
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Docs will have a differnt criteria
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> I thought so
      <[Content_SB]mosat> which I need to come up with before Kar beats me to it
      :-)
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> hehe
      <[Content_SB]mosat> yeah, that is what I call motivation
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> that's true
      <[Content_SB]mosat> rushing to get something done to avaid 100+ tracker
      emails
      <[Content_SB]mosat> he's good at that
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> you better believe that
      <[Content_SB]mosat> well I've already started going through our data
      trackers and sorting them
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I think that will not be the bear of a project it is in
      code FREQs
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> back to the priorities: they looked ok for me.
      <[Content_SB]mosat> those were really piling up as that was the place they
      got dumped
      <[Content_SB]mosat> cool
      <[Content_SB]mosat> no objections? thats what we'll use :-)
      <kingpaul> they looked alright to me
      <AlphaSEQ> almost looks like a BoD meeting night, heheh
      <[Content_SB]mosat> but you're allowed to talk :D
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> just more SOBs than SBs
      <[Content_SB]mosat> LOL
      <[Content_SB]mosat> OK I'm just going to run threw my list quick
      <[Content_SB]mosat> datasets
      <[Content_SB]mosat> we need to complete the core sets
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Epic, Divine and whats left for Future
      <[Content_SB]mosat> this should not be difficult, Epic and Divine are about
      ready to go in
      <[Content_SB]mosat> we need Robots Equipment and Vehicles for future
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Yeah, I always wanted to ask about Future, but I was
      under the impression that you and Paul enjoyed working on these, and I
      didn't want to interfere
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I do, just haven't had the time (same old excus)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> If it's a baton you can pick up I don't think either of
      us would object
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> If you point me in the right direction, I'll see what I
      can do there.
      <[Content_SB]mosat> will do
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the next thing on my list was core dataset clean up
      <kingpaul> i've been kinda swamped, which is why i haven't touched Future
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I had the idea that we should run the error list in
      prettylst and just deal with everything it found
      <[Content_SB]mosat> some things it finds are just gaps in prettylst and
      those need to be dealt with by opening prettylst trackers
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> that's probably a sound plan
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the MSRD is pretty clean last I checked
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I banged on that pretty heavy last year
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> there are only a few ones
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I think the errors reported can all be atributed to
      prettylst gaps
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the SRD however...
      <[Content_SB]mosat> is a fright
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the RSRD has issues too
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Anyway thats my project, if in the process I find
      specific issues I can pass off I'll make trackers
      <[Content_SB]mosat> The last thing I brought up was all the renaming issues
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Battlemind, Willpower and the like
      <[Content_SB]mosat> it nags at me that I can't just go fix it :)
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Is this just about the official names, or does this
      include the "-" in names issue too?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> that going to be part of it
      <[Content_SB]mosat> that issue is releated to data standards
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> would outputname or Legacy items do?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Legacy items?
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> I mean keeping a the old line in
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> probably not that useful in races
      <[Content_SB]mosat> well, let me say what I would like to see happen
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> k
      <[Content_SB]mosat> first off, we came up with standards for nameing
      <[Content_SB]mosat> this would be alist of characters that should be
      available to use in object names
      <[Content_SB]mosat> it includes the dash symbol
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I would like to be able to use the names as published as
      much as possible
      <[Content_SB]mosat> and avoid OUTPUTNAME work arounds
      * Papa-DRB has quit IRC (Quit: )
      <[Content_SB]mosat> sorry, trying to look up that list
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> no prob.
      <kingpaul> is OUTPUTNAME that much of a hassle?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> found it, this is long
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Characters approved for use in object names are: upper
      and lower case letters, numbers, single spaces in between multiple words
      (never before or after) and the following glyphs: underscore (_), dash (-),
      apostrophe ('), parentheses (), and a slash (/).
      <[Content_SB]mosat> thats about three lines in my window ya'll see it?
      <kingpaul> yep
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yep
      <[Content_SB]mosat> now here's the thing
      <kingpaul> but don't parens cause problems elsewhere?
      <kingpaul> and dashes for that matter?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> that's the issue
      <[Content_SB]mosat> if this standard is adopted we need the code team to be
      on board
      <[Content_SB]mosat> because when issues relating to name characters come up
      they need to be P9 squashed asap
      <[Content_SB]mosat> or we might as well not adopt that standard for the
      trouble it will cause
      <[Content_SB]mosat> At this point I don't know of any issues that are not
      being looked at
      <[Content_SB]mosat> so I'm not concernd so much
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> is there a legal point in this? Are qe required to use
      the correct names?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> no, it's an asthetic thing in my mind
      <[Content_SB]mosat> and a compatibility thing
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the Blind-Fighting feat has different name s in the SRD
      and RSRD
      <[Content_SB]mosat> which is a PITA if we want to make 3.0 to 3.5 conversion
      sets
      <[Content_SB]mosat> (which I do)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> we need to get everything in line
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> That makes sense
      <[Content_SB]mosat> that bring me back to changing the names
      <[Content_SB]mosat> in order not to break folks home brew sets we need to
      have the LST converter reactivated
      <[Content_SB]mosat> someone had the great idea to have it be data driven
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I'm suggesting a conversions.lst file in the gameMode
      which will have the list of name conversions
      <[Content_SB]mosat> as we change the names we put them in there
      <[Content_SB]mosat> when the user get a new version he can run the converter
      on his home brew sets and ta da it's done
      <[Content_SB]mosat> with the name changes in a data file we don't have to
      pester the CM's everytime we find a typo :-)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> maybe we bother them if we run across an object we need
      changed that the converter doesn't support yet
      <kingpaul> wouldn't that require that home-brew stuff be kept in a
      *specific* directory so that PCGen can find it?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> no, have you used the LST conveter?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> it's been a looooong time since it did anything usefull
      <[Content_SB]mosat> but when you choose it you point it at a directory
      <kingpaul> oh. i've never used them to be honest
      <[Content_SB]mosat> so they can have their sets where ever they want
      * BarakO has joined #pcgen
      <[Content_SB]mosat> well, anyway that a plan of attack, we'll see if the
      CM's can get to it
      <[Content_SB]mosat> OK thats all I have were done...Oh hey Barak! you missed
      the whole thing
      <[Content_SB]mosat> kidding
      <BarakO> 6L10aughing 6O10ut 6L10oud
      <BarakO> I only stopped in to see if I could still get here. :p
      <[Content_SB]mosat> just like riding a bicycle only you'er typeing
      and..well..OK its not like a bicycle
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Hi, Barak
      <kingpaul> hungry 6-mo-old...gotta go
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Well I assume Tir had some idea's about prioritization
      but well he's not here so we can't hear them
      <[Content_SB]mosat> by Paul
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> bye, Paul
      <[Content_SB]mosat> anyone else got a topic to discuss
      <[Content_SB]mosat> ?
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> When I was bugsquashing with Tir the question came up,
      whether we might find an autobuild of 5.8.1 somewhere.
      <BarakO> Not having been here for the rest of the meeting, I'll keep my
      mouth shut (not that I really have anything to say... )
      <[Content_SB]mosat> don't think it exists
      <[Content_SB]mosat> you might ask Eric or another CM to throw you a build
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I imagine they don't change much
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I havn't seen many commits for it
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> It would just be soothing for the nerves to test stuff
      with something closer to the "real thing"
      <[Content_SB]mosat> agreed
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Another thing, do you intend to do regular Data team
      meetings, let's say once a month or so?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> it's probably a good idea
      <[Content_SB]mosat> really I need to be online a little more
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> it was probably too short note for most, today
      <[Content_SB]mosat> we can do another one in a week to make up for it
      <BarakO> I'd like that, if only to have stuff pointed out to me that i miss
      on the forums.
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> I'd be there :-)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> cool, did you get that thing I sent you?
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> need to check my mail
      <[Content_SB]mosat> that was for Barak, sorry, should be specific :)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> cool, Andrew just fixed the unarmed damage dice issue
      <[Content_SB]mosat> one less problem with NATURALATTACKS
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Did you send a reply to Kar about the Exotic Melee Weapon
      Proficiency I forwarded to you, Eddy?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> no I didn't reply to Kar
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I can if you want
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I sounded like he was not done poking at it :-)
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Yeah.
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I wanted to see if a code fix was forthcomming
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I didn't like the idea of the name change to fix it but
      I'll do it if it works and there's nothing else
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> I'll send a reply, I just didn't want to contradict
      anything you might have said.
      <[Content_SB]mosat> go for it
      <[Content_SB]mosat> and feel free to contridict me if I need it :-)
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> hehe
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Well I'm ging to call this meeting officially done
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> something else: we were discussing the Mastercraft Eqmod
      once, and were sidetracked by the specs issue.
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Where are we standing there?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Oh wait, that is a good topic
      <[Content_SB]mosat> did I send you a copy of that?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I did
      <[Content_SB]mosat> now I remember
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yup
      <[Content_SB]mosat> we need multiple versions
      <[Content_SB]mosat> one to support bonuses to hit and the other for damage
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> right, that was the issue
      <[Content_SB]mosat> well we definitely want to go there for 5.10
      <[Content_SB]mosat> but I think this would break PC's and would be messy to
      back port
      <[Content_SB]mosat> plus that's more testing for Tir and you
      <[Content_SB]mosat> so lets not bother
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> so 5.10, then.
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Greg has a fix for the replicating EQMOD pricing
      * BarakO has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> that's good.
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I've been poking Devon to port it to 5.8.1
      <[Content_SB]mosat> that's not been done
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yet, or will not be done?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> if it is at least then Masterwork will work even if it
      is incorrect to the source
      <[Content_SB]mosat> yet
      <[Content_SB]mosat> that's why I poke devon :-)
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> poke away :-)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> yeah, I'll look at my files and send what I got for
      Mastercraft
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> One last thing:
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> I'm still thinking about that Allegiances thing
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> What can Abilities already do at this time?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I have not asked
      <kingpaul> ok, i'm back
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> It's just personal interest
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I feel it's kind of like bothering the mechanic when
      your car is strewn about the garage :)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> its a good question
      <[Content_SB]mosat> we really do need to start playing with it
      <[Content_SB]mosat> and that something I didn't talk about yet
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> What I would need is going from a different Pool than the
      feat pool, REMOVE:FEAT for abilities and OS tags for abilities
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Once they get that done it's a pretty big job to convert
      all those SA';s into abilitied
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Could that be done with a script?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> don't we have a REMOVE:FEAT tag now?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> not that
      <kingpaul> why can't SAs be done as abilities?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> huh Paul?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> we can't script the change over
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Would REMOVE:FEAT work with a non Feat ability?
      <kingpaul> that's what i meant...why can't a script be done?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> they should be creating a corasponding REMOVE:ABILITY
      tag
      <[Content_SB]mosat> it can't be scripted because all the info which will go
      into the ability is not there in the SA tag
      <[Content_SB]mosat> kind of like the problem with converting SPELL to SPELLS
      but on a much more massive scale
      <kingpaul> so you can't do like you did with the SPELL/SPELLS conversion?
      build the basic ABILITY, but then go back through and fine-tune?
      <kingpaul> wow, same time
      <[Content_SB]mosat> an SA tag will give you a discription and list some
      numirical bonuses but if there is an acutal BONUS tag it does not
      nessisarily be in the same object as the SA
      <[Content_SB]mosat> it takes a human to read the text and fins all the parts
      <kingpaul> oh? i didn't realize that the variable incrementation would be
      embedded in the ABILITY object as well
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the page number, isn't in the data now
      <[Content_SB]mosat> sure everything which is part of the ability
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yes, but we are lazy monkeys. Every bit would help.
      <kingpaul> lol Frank
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I just think it would be more work to grind through half
      done script output than to build it clean from scratch
      <[Content_SB]mosat> some of it is already done
      <kingpaul> what about abilities that increment at different rates? take Rage
      or Sneak Attack for instance
      <[Content_SB]mosat> many special abilities are already coded as hidden feats
      <[Content_SB]mosat> they will just need a little tweeking and they are done
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Rage or Sneak Attack work now don't they?
      <kingpaul> how do you increment those if the incrmentation is to be embedded
      in ABILITY?
      <kingpaul> yes they do, but you said above the incrmentation would be
      embedded in the ABILITY
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the incrementation formula in NOT in the ability
      <[Content_SB]mosat> chek out Wildshape as an example
      <kingpaul> now i'm confused, because you said that "BONUS tag it does not
      nessisarily be in the same object as the SA"
      <[Content_SB]mosat> all the progressions are in the ability but the
      progression itself is set in the class
      <kingpaul> this led me to believe that you were embedding the formula in the
      ability
      <[Content_SB]mosat> OK, let me slow down
      <[Content_SB]mosat> in what we have now an SA tag which is the name and
      description of a special ability and a BONUS which might be used to
      implement an aspect of that ability do not currently or nessisarily reside
      within the same object
      <[Content_SB]mosat> follow that?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Now the ABILITY object we are moving to works like this:
      <kingpaul> right...i've seen the SA in either a hidden feat and the BONUS in
      the CLASS; or both in the CLASS
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the name of the Ability and the DESC tag will do the
      work of what the SA tag does now
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the ability will also hold any BONUS tags and DEFINEs
      related to the ability
      <kingpaul> so the formula for variable incrmentation will be in the ability
      object?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the DESC tag is being modified so you can use multiple
      DESC tags in an ability line and you can do % var substitution and PRE
      qualifying
      <[Content_SB]mosat> no the DEFINE for those vars will be in the ABILITY line
      <kingpaul> then what is the purpose of the BONUS in the ability if you're
      not incrementing items?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the formula or any other bonus to those vars will come
      form those objects which use them
      <kingpaul> *smacks head* you're talking the discrete increments aren't you?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> yeah, I'm not following you
      <kingpaul> BONUS:SKILL|Diplomacy|2|TYPE=Insight and the like
      <[Content_SB]mosat> depends on the ability
      <[Content_SB]mosat> if its just one straign number than there it is
      <[Content_SB]mosat> if the ABILITY is being set up for use by multiple
      classes/ races
      <[Content_SB]mosat> then this
      <[Content_SB]mosat> DEFINE:Stuff|0
      <[Content_SB]mosat> BONUS:SKILL|Diplomacy|Stuff|TYPE=Insight
      <[Content_SB]mosat> that the cclass adding it will BONUS:VAR|Stuff|2
      <[Content_SB]mosat> make sense?
      <kingpaul> yes
      <[Content_SB]mosat> :-)
      <kingpaul> sorry it took so long for me to wrap my head around that
      <[Content_SB]mosat> is alright
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I think you will like it once it's in place
      <kingpaul> maybe i missed it, but is there an ETA on when ABILITY will be
      done?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> 5.10
      <[Content_SB]mosat> :-)
      <kingpaul> cool
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Andrew said it was about half done
      <kingpaul> must've missed that
      <kingpaul> so, anything else oh Great and Fearless Data Monkey Leader-type
      Person-thingy? :D
      <[Content_SB]mosat> nope, I'm going to call it a night
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> to sum it up, the most pressing targets right now are
      completing the core sets and the core set cleanup?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> nice chat though
      <kingpaul> so you want this log posted to the group?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> sure why not
      <kingpaul> k
      <[Content_SB]mosat> night
      <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> good night
      * [Content_SB]mosat has left #pcgen
      * [DM]Frank_Kliewe has quit IRC (Quit: )
      --
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • taluroniscandar
      ... Sorry I didn t make, had a previous commitment ... problem ... remove ... BTW, I been forgetting to mention, Prettylst reports REMOVE:FEAT as an invalid
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 30 5:19 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        > <[Content_SB]mosat> hi guys

        Sorry I didn't make, had a previous commitment


        > <[Content_SB]mosat> hmm and I just thought of a way around the kit
        problem
        > <[Content_SB]mosat> we have a REMOVE:FEAT tag now right? we can just
        remove
        > the Archaic prof feat if it has been chosen

        BTW, I been forgetting to mention, Prettylst reports REMOVE:FEAT as an
        invalid class tag.

        > <[Content_SB]mosat> well I've already started going through our data
        > trackers and sorting them

        I plan on trackering and working on those items James Blakeney has
        been posting as soon as I can remove the Uber-Stick (tm) from RL hands.

        > <[Content_SB]mosat> Characters approved for use in object names are:
        upper
        > and lower case letters, numbers, single spaces in between multiple words
        > (never before or after) and the following glyphs: underscore (_),
        dash (-),
        > apostrophe ('), parentheses (), and a slash (/).
        > <[Content_SB]mosat> thats about three lines in my window ya'll see it?
        > <kingpaul> yep
        > <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yep
        > <[Content_SB]mosat> now here's the thing
        > <kingpaul> but don't parens cause problems elsewhere?
        > <kingpaul> and dashes for that matter?
        > <[Content_SB]mosat> that's the issue
        > <[Content_SB]mosat> if this standard is adopted we need the code
        team to be
        > on board
        > <[Content_SB]mosat> because when issues relating to name characters
        come up
        > they need to be P9 squashed asap
        > <[Content_SB]mosat> or we might as well not adopt that standard for the
        > trouble it will cause

        I would agree with this. The code monkeys really have more important
        things to do IMO. OUTPUNAME might not be the prefered solution but it
        does work.

        > <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> What can Abilities already do at this time?

        I was wondering: there is a PrC I need to code for my personal files
        as I intend to use it for a character. One of the prereqs is:

        Evasion from a race or class ability.

        I presume it's written this way to preclude using a Ring of Evasion to
        qualify. I know the current feat coding cannot do this. Does the spec
        for Ability include the ability to tell how the character acquired the
        ability? (that was repetitive) If not, is this a resonable/useful
        ability :\ to ask for?
      • thoron-tir-gwaith@lycos.com
        No, the way Eddy seems to want it is a TYPE tag to tell if it is a Class Ability or not. What we need, and will have eventually, is a way to tell what objects
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 30 5:29 AM
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          No, the way Eddy seems to want it is a TYPE tag to tell if it is a Class Ability or not. What we need, and will have eventually, is a way to tell what objects grant what (from CDOM). After Devon's team has cleaned up the code, he's promised they'll be going to that, and we'll start having lots more options there.

          I personally think putting "ClassAbility" etc in the TYPEs is a Bad Idea. Shot-gun method to solving a problem, that will cover maybe 80% of what we need, but not the stuff we will really need it for, like Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, etc. I don't see the point for the maintenance overhead; either we can do something, and right, or let's not in our data.

          Tir Gwaith
          LST Chimp

          > I was wondering: there is a PrC I need to code for my personal files
          > as I intend to use it for a character. One of the prereqs is:
          >
          > Evasion from a race or class ability.
          >
          > I presume it's written this way to preclude using a Ring of Evasion to
          > qualify. I know the current feat coding cannot do this. Does the spec
          > for Ability include the ability to tell how the character acquired the
          > ability? (that was repetitive) If not, is this a resonable/useful
          > ability :\ to ask for?
        • boomer70
          ... https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1170710&group_id=3 ... The PROF tag in the kit code is intended to handle this. As you point out
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 30 10:15 AM
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            --- "Paul W. King" <paulking.rhochi@...>
            wrote:

            > <[Content_SB]mosat> I've got a couple of trackers
            > for you to look at Frank
            > <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> what is it?
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> [ 1170710 ] [MSRD] Weapon prof
            > choice by creature type
            > <[Content_SB]mosat>
            >
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1170710&group_id=3
            > 6698&atid=417819
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> in modern some creature type get
            > to choose either
            > Archaic weapons or simple
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> I had come up with a solution
            > but the KIT set up will
            > make it not work
            > <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yeah I'm waiting for the tracker
            > to display
            > <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> that darn satelite can be slow
            > sometimes
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> I was just wondering how
            > important you think this is to
            > modern playters
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> er, modern players
            > <kingpaul> why does KIT break a choice?
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> it doesn't
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> here's the thing
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> it appear that default monsters
            > always choose the simple
            > prof
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> if the CHOOSE is implemented
            > from the type template or
            > race then the choice happens during race selection
            > <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> it would be nice to have, but I
            > wouldn't consider it for
            > 5.8.1.
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> since the kit is applied after
            > that it has no say in the
            > matter
            > <kingpaul> i think i get it
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> It's easy enough to do, I've
            > already got it done really
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> as long as a chooser window at
            > race selection dosn't
            > bother anyone
            > <[Content_SB]mosat> but yeah, I'm not going to try
            > this for 5.8.1

            The PROF tag in the kit code is intended to handle
            this. As you point out though, if the creature
            already has a monster level it won't work. I am not
            sure how this would work with races that "don't have a
            monster level" (i.e. that replace it with a character
            class) or if that would apply in this case.

            -Aaron


            ----------------
            Aaron Divinsky
            PCGen Data Tamarin, Doc Lemur



            __________________________________
            Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
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          • Eddy Anthony
            ... He s the idea I had, the default kit for those monsters that get the choice would all get a template with REMOVE:FEAT to take the Archaic profs out and an
            Message 5 of 5 , Sep 30 10:26 AM
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              On 9/30/05 1:15 PM, "boomer70" <boomer70@...> wrote:

              >> <[Content_SB]mosat> since the kit is applied after
              >> that it has no say in the
              >> matter

              >
              > The PROF tag in the kit code is intended to handle
              > this. As you point out though, if the creature
              > already has a monster level it won't work. I am not
              > sure how this would work with races that "don't have a
              > monster level" (i.e. that replace it with a character
              > class) or if that would apply in this case.

              He's the idea I had, the default kit for those monsters that get the choice
              would all get a template with REMOVE:FEAT to take the Archaic profs out and
              an ADD:FEAT to add the Simple Prof in, shouldn't be a problem I just needed
              to think about it a bit :-)
              --
              ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
              ~ PCGen Content Silverback
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