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BoD log - 8/14/05

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  • Paul W. King
    and i now have 9:30 PM EST (GMT -5) Code, go not much action on the code front, but we do seem to have
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 14, 2005
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> and i now have 9:30 PM EST (GMT -5)
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Code, go
      <[BD]mertonmonk> not much action on the code front, but we do seem to have
      more coders involved.
      <[BD]mertonmonk> activity has picked up a bit, which is nice to see
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> that's cool
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> any thought of when 5.9.2 should come out?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> andrew wilson and Stefan Radermacher have been coding up a
      storm :)
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I think 5.9.2 can't come out soon enough (i.e. now would be
      nice) :)
      <[BD]mertonmonk> let everyone help make sure that all this coding has broken
      anything that's not obvious.
      <[BD]mertonmonk> erm, make sure it *hasn't*....
      <[BD]mertonmonk> *blush*
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> lol...i knew what you meant
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> anything else Bryan?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> nope, that's it on coding
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Content, go
      <[Content_SB]mosat> not much to report
      <[Content_SB]mosat> it's been somewhat quite this week
      <[Content_SB]mosat> did figure out a few things data wise
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> that's cool
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> what datasets are in the fire that you know of?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Epic and Arcana are getting the business right now
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> k
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> anything else?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> nope, unless we want to talk about code requests for
      data
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> sure
      <[Content_SB]mosat> well I've got one I think would be fairly simple but
      would help data solve quite a few problems
      <[Content_SB]mosat> [1250730] PLUSCOST calculations: Add PLUSTOTAL as a COST
      tag variable
      <[Content_SB]mosat>
      <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1250730&group_id=2
      5576&atid=384722>
      <[Content_SB]mosat> This is needed because the plus cost formula for Epic
      items is different (x10) from non-Epic magic items
      <[Content_SB]mosat> We have had problems trying to manipulate the PLUSCOST
      formulas in the gameMode file
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Rather than request complex changes to the PLUSCOST
      gameMode tag we think we have hit on a simple solution
      <[Content_SB]mosat> All we need is an additional hardcoded variable we can
      use in the COST and BONUS:ITEMCOST tags:
      <[Content_SB]mosat> PLUSTOTAL, this would return the total number of pluses
      added by the PLUS: tag
      <[Content_SB]mosat> with this in place we could move the formula out of the
      gameMode and into the data
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Because all plus costing enhancements require at least a
      +1 enhancement and all the enhancement EQMODs are mutually exclusive the
      cost formula could be applied there
      <[Content_SB]mosat> For example, the +1 enhancement to Armor would include
      this:
      <[Content_SB]mosat> +1 (Enhancement to Armor) PLUS:1 COST:1000*PLUS*PLUS
      <[Content_SB]mosat> With this the Epic plus costs would be simple and this
      would also solve some other issues like the plus cost of Shuriken (which is
      currently wrong)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> best of all the existing code does not need to be
      removed or altered, we can simply comment out or remove the PLUSCOST tags
      from the gameMode files
      <[Content_SB]mosat> hows that?
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> interesting
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> did you follow that Bryan?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> seems fairly straightforward, but BONUS tags usually have 2
      elements before the formula
      <[BD]mertonmonk> like BONUS:COMBAT|AC|2
      <[BD]mertonmonk> BONUS:ITEMCOST|what?|1000*PLUS*PLUS
      <[BD]mertonmonk> or would it be BONUS:ITEM|COST|formula
      <[Content_SB]mosat> BONUS:ITEMCOST|TYPE.Thing|1000*PLUS*PLUS
      <[Content_SB]mosat> TYPE is the element you are looking for
      <[Content_SB]mosat> it would stay the same syntax, we just need a VAR to
      return the number of pluses
      <[BD]mertonmonk> it's been a long time since I've delved into that code, but
      I don't think this should be that big of a deal
      <[BD]mertonmonk> we'd need to make sure that all item costs were scrutinized
      to make sure nothing is broken
      <[BD]mertonmonk> since this obviously impacts a lot of items (anything
      magical!)
      <[BD]mertonmonk> this would be something for a coder who has worked in the
      equipment code before - a 2-3 day type effort just to be safe
      <[Content_SB]mosat> sure would, but tranfering the formula to the data would
      be transparent to the user
      <[BD]mertonmonk> right, but there's till the potential for breakage
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> the cost formula is currently in the code?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> maybe we can talk Devon into fixing it while we're at
      gencon :)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> that would be nice
      <[BD]mertonmonk> there is a cost formula, but I forget the details. this
      would be in addition to that
      <[Content_SB]mosat> you just posted it
      <[Content_SB]mosat> 1000*PLUS*PLUS
      <[Content_SB]mosat> for armor
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I mean how all the BONUS tags work together for determining
      cost.
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Oh
      <[BD]mertonmonk> there's more to it than just BONUS:ITEMCOST... there are
      actually a few steps to it
      <[BD]mertonmonk> but I can't recall the exact steps without looking through
      the code
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I just remember that it was a bit convoluted...
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I have uncovered another issue related to pricing
      <[Content_SB]mosat> care to hear it?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> sure ;)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> it concerns specific items
      <[Content_SB]mosat> they are constructed with EQMODs and the price
      difference is added to the COST tag
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the bug is that if the item is resized the new cost is
      factored using the COST tag value
      <[Content_SB]mosat> which represents the value of the magical enhancments as
      well as the cost of the base item
      <[Content_SB]mosat> it is only the base item which should be refactored
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I have found a solution too
      <[BD]mertonmonk> good, because my head is spinning! :)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I've created an EQMOD with which you can add cost to the
      item, then the COST tag can hold only the cost of the base item and only
      that is refactored when it is resized
      <[Content_SB]mosat> he, if that got you then how about this:
      <[Content_SB]mosat> masterwork and magical EQMODs do not get refactored
      <[Content_SB]mosat> but
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I believe base materials like Mithral and Adamantine do
      <[Content_SB]mosat> so if you make a Large Armor out of Mithral it should
      cost twice as much as the same armor as for a mediium creature
      <[Content_SB]mosat> but neither our data or CMPs data does this
      <[BD]mertonmonk> how does it behave now?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> If you make colasal Full plate Mithral armor the full
      plate will cost 16 times as much but the Mithral EQMOD costs no different as
      medium sized full plate
      <[Content_SB]mosat> unfortunately I have not found any explicite rules that
      say that
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Mithral items other than armor have their cost based on
      weight so that leaves me to believe that it should work this way
      <[BD]mertonmonk> hm
      <[Content_SB]mosat> but I have not found anything in the FAQ or anywhere
      else
      <[BD]mertonmonk> you're probably right. maybe we can pin down someone at
      Wotc at GenCon to make it explicit
      <[BD]mertonmonk> but what you're saying makes logical sense
      <[Content_SB]mosat> that would be cool
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> anything else Eddy?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I'm trying to make a list of all these nit picks we have
      uncovered this year
      <[BD]mertonmonk> what day will you bet at GenCon? saturday? I'll make a
      point to go with you to the Wotc booth and see if we can get some answers
      <[Content_SB]mosat> only that if we need to adjust these EQMODs for size I
      have a solution for that
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I'll be there saturday, as early as I can, I'm driving
      overnight
      <[Content_SB]mosat> OK content status is done
      <[BD]mertonmonk> early being before 10am?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> yah
      <[Content_SB]mosat> at least by 10
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> ok, PL
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i still haven't heard from Necromancer Games, but that
      doesn't surprise me
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i'll email them again next week after GenCon
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> has any thought been given to finding a replacement for
      Beaver?
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> or ami back to being the PL SB?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> we seem to be running very short handed in the SB dept.
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> true...RL seems to have hit all of us pretty hard this
      summer
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> you, me, Reed, Paul G, Devon and Eric
      <[Content_SB]mosat> and few volunteers are working up the ranks
      <[BD]mertonmonk> code seems to be doing ok, but it seems like all the other
      teams are hurting
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I just got another code volunteer today - he wants to focus
      on GMGen type functionality
      <[BD]mertonmonk> data people seem to be especially hard to come by
      <[Content_SB]mosat> true, but Frank is a welcome addition
      <[Content_SB]mosat> hope he doesn't get frustrated by the slow pace progress
      can take sometimes
      <[BD]mertonmonk> this is something we'll need to discuss on saturday. if
      we're having trouble retaining data people, or what the issue is
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> any idea of Kar's comment about being back means he's back
      to work?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I didn't know Kar had said anything - when/where was that?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> on a tracker, and a post to the main list
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I knew he was back (as in NZ) a long time ago
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I was the only one who replied back to his post
      <[BD]mertonmonk> cool. I assume he'd contact me or one of us if he wanted to
      jump back in the BoD
      <[BD]mertonmonk> he's certainly welcomed back anytime he wants
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I don't get to read all the posts anymore - I wish I had
      the time to read them all like I used to
      <[BD]mertonmonk> Getting ready for gencon this year is especially busy!
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll find his post and say hi :)
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> that's understandable Bryan
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> well, that's all i had for PL
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> TM
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> because of the aforementioned RL, i haven't had a chance
      to look closely through the 1+ yr old Code Freqs
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i still want to do that, but its looking like not until
      after Labor Day, as i have 2 separate vacations coming up
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> one with my family, one with Jen's
      <[BD]mertonmonk> when is labor day this year?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Sept 5
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> thanks Eddy, stepped away to get a Kleenex
      <[BD]mertonmonk> on a kind of unrelated note, did we ever nail down the spec
      for 5.10?
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> yes, it was going to clean my toilet :D
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I know we had discussed it, but I don't recall any firm
      conclusion
      <[Content_SB]mosat> well data has a list of datasets, including getting full
      support done for the xSRDs
      <[BD]mertonmonk> and be compatible with your coffee grinder
      <[Content_SB]mosat> ans I presented a list of features data would like to
      get code support for
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i think full support of the xSRDs is probably a good goal
      <[Content_SB]mosat> we even got the community to prioritize it
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> have you trackered those requests Eddy?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I think we need to make the spec prominently displayed on
      the SF page so everyone can see what we're shooting for
      <[Content_SB]mosat> but I have not heard what the code team is committed to
      other than that they are working on the ability objetc first
      <[BD]mertonmonk> and so Paul, or some other TM we can bribe/prod into the
      job, can go and prioritize all the trackers accordingly...
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I think they are all trackered
      <[BD]mertonmonk> frugal made an attempt, and then it got delayed, right?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll have to talk to devon about what the current status of
      that project is.
      <[Content_SB]mosat> if not it is because that exact appraouch on how to deal
      with the issues has not been worked out
      <[BD]mertonmonk> it has a big impact on what data can be done as well
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> no, i believe Frugal was working on CDOM, not the Ability
      object
      <[Content_SB]mosat> right
      <[BD]mertonmonk> oh - that's right. I got them mixed up.
      <[Content_SB]mosat> he wasn't able to start
      <[BD]mertonmonk> ok, I'm still not sure where the ability object is code
      wise
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I haven't heard anything about it in a few weeks
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> ok, i'm done with TM, and we've already drifted into open
      discussion
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I do want to discuss a PCGen getogether
      <[BD]mertonmonk> sounds like it will be lunch on saturday since Eddy will be
      there then
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> are we done with 5.10 spec scope?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> :-)
      <[BD]mertonmonk> we need Devon for the 5.10 discussion
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll corner him at gencon :)
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I think the CMP booth is 454 if anyone wants to come bug me
      and see our big inflatable monkeys :)
      <AlphaSEQ> scifi monkeys
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> alright, corner Devon at GenCon
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> what about scifi monkeys AlphaSEQ?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> all monkeys are scifi fans
      <AlphaSEQ> seen the scifi blurb where the guy blows up the dog like a
      balloon?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll post an announcement about the pcgen get-together on
      saturday
      <[BD]mertonmonk> oh yeah - I've seen that commercial!
      <[BD]mertonmonk> Scifi just went to a different cable package so I don't get
      it anymore :(
      <AlphaSEQ> so, instead of a dog, you've blown up some monkeys
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> not seen that commercial
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> but it sounds appropriate
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll probably end up having to blow up the monkey again
      this year...
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> anything else on the GenCon get-together?
      <AlphaSEQ> how many total monkeys are there working on the various subparts
      of pcgen?
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> hey, i helped last year
      <[BD]mertonmonk> heh
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> good question AlphaSEQ
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I don't know, but only 4 can sit at any one time ;)
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> on the PL team, its just me
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> the OGL team is Paul G, Larry Plympton (whom i haven't
      seen in quite some time) and myself
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Docs: me, OS:Chuck pint
      <[BD]mertonmonk> we need more members on the PL team! and the data team, and
      OGL, and... well, just about every team!
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Data: there are about five guys
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> trackers are me, Eddy, Papa, Ravagon and, i think,
      Andargor (there may be others who post occasionally...i can't recall
      everyone
      <AlphaSEQ> I wonder if part of the issue with Data is the fact that the most
      wanted/needed files aren't OGL
      <[Content_SB]mosat> there are alot of non-active monkeys out there
      <AlphaSEQ> e.g. FR, Eberron, WotC addons, etc...
      <[Content_SB]mosat> the data team used to be big
      <[Content_SB]mosat> could be
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i think the biggest contributing data monkeys are, in no
      particular order:
      <[Content_SB]mosat> maybe thats the reason for the decline
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Tir, Barak, Doug, Eddy, myself and Kar
      <[BD]mertonmonk> CMP doesn't have many data monkeys either, so I don't think
      it's an OGL-or-not type issue
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> there are more, but i think that group contains the ones
      who've done the most
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I think it takes a particular person
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> oh, forgot Mynex
      <[Content_SB]mosat> one who like the logic challange of it
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> yeah, some stuff is *quite* convoluted
      <[BD]mertonmonk> yeah, it's definitely a skill.
      <AlphaSEQ> does CMP accept outside coders and if so, how do they reimburse
      them since they are a for-profit company?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I've always been amazed at what you data monkeys can get
      to work considering what you have to work with!
      <[Content_SB]mosat> It's may main hobby right now, spend much more time in
      the data and the docs than I do actually gaming
      <[BD]mertonmonk> outside coders for what? nothing more is being done on
      ETools, and PCGen coding is on a volunteer basis
      <[BD]mertonmonk> if you mean for data, you bet we accept outside coders
      <AlphaSEQ> they make data files (which is kind of coding)
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> if you're intersted in doing work for CMP, go here:
      http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&
      pid=13
      <[BD]mertonmonk> CMP is always happy to get more people - especially anyone
      good with data!
      <AlphaSEQ> are they reimbursed for their work?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> of course
      <AlphaSEQ> ok... that cuts off that line of thought then, heheh
      <[BD]mertonmonk> a couple of people have actually said they didn't want to
      be paid. they just liked to do the work.
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Mynex has stated on their boards that they still have
      troubles getting data monkeys, even though they do compensate
      <[BD]mertonmonk> there aren't too many people around like that ;)
      <[Content_SB]mosat> and you did sent then back here right? :-)
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I think if we ever got the LST editors to work, it'd make
      it a lot easier
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> that'd be nice
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i know i mostly tell folks to not use them because they're
      rather buggy
      <AlphaSEQ> then I would guess the lack of them is from the perception that
      has grown up since pcgen stopped distributing content like SW d20
      <[BD]mertonmonk> yeah - but if we got them to work, it would make LST work a
      lot easier and I think do a lot to get more involved in it
      <[BD]mertonmonk> alpha - maybe. I'm still hoping we can eventually get to
      the point where we can get Lucas' approval.
      <[Content_SB]mosat> they would need to be alot more robust than they are now
      for me to use them
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> AlphaSEQ, what do you see the perception as?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I'd love to include SW d20 again
      <[Content_SB]mosat> heck at this point any licensed set would be a huge step
      in that directionn
      <AlphaSEQ> The perception, from my point of view, is basically the loss of
      functionality
      <AlphaSEQ> stuff that was there is gone, and only some of what was there can
      be obtained from CMP
      <[Content_SB]mosat> so we need to talk to Mongoose saturday about Babylon 5
      <[BD]mertonmonk> yeah, though the alternative was the loss of everything.
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I think CMP has been able to cover everything other than SW
      that was lost.
      <AlphaSEQ> so those that do play SW D20, FR, Eberron, etc... don't see PCGen
      as being a useful app
      <[BD]mertonmonk> unless they can code the data themselves
      <[BD]mertonmonk> CMP has eberron
      <[BD]mertonmonk> but I know what you mean
      <AlphaSEQ> right, but most people (and I don't disagree with what happened)
      see it as "I got the application for free, and now I have to pay to get what
      I need"
      <[BD]mertonmonk> right, I've been fighting that battle for a few years now
      <AlphaSEQ> in some ways it feels like a "Bait and Switch" type of thing
      <[BD]mertonmonk> it would be a bait and switch if it had been planned that
      way, but I think I've made it pretty clear what all happened
      <AlphaSEQ> you have to me, but that doesn't mean everyone sees it that way
      or understands it that way...
      <[BD]mertonmonk> In any event, I'm pleased that PCGen gets to continue to
      exist and be free and add to what it offers for free
      <AlphaSEQ> so am I
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I'm also happy that CMP gets to produce closed data at a
      very low price (compared to the amount of effort it takes to create the
      data)
      <[BD]mertonmonk> this keeps Wotc happy and (I hope) our customers happy
      <[BD]mertonmonk> it's a difficult tight-rope to walk, but we try to do our
      best
      <AlphaSEQ> I've been playing with PCGen since before the the 2.x -> 3.x
      shakeup
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I think PCGen has improved far beyond what it could do in
      2.x
      <AlphaSEQ> but talking with others at my gaming store look at PCGen as being
      useless to them, heheh
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> oh yes, there has been many changes since the 2.x
      days...and i started back in 1.4.x
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I sometimes wonder if Wotc will let us release the data for
      free if/when they announce 4e
      <AlphaSEQ> if they go to 4e before a decade of 3.5e has gone by, then they
      can kiss me good bye as a customer
      <[BD]mertonmonk> The fact that they are now owned by Hasboro dictates more
      to them then if they ran the show themselves
      <[Content_SB]mosat> Alpha has a point, I think a lot of folks gave up on
      PCGen when the closed content material was removed and have not been back to
      see the improvements
      <[BD]mertonmonk> When did 3e come out? was it 2000?
      <AlphaSEQ> yep
      <AlphaSEQ> and 3.5 was less than 3 years later
      <[Content_SB]mosat> just the other day I read someone comment on a forum
      that PCGen couldn't do monster advancment properly
      <[BD]mertonmonk> so 5 years so far.
      <[Content_SB]mosat> don't know where that came from, I've never heard it was
      a problem
      <[BD]mertonmonk> me neither
      <AlphaSEQ> that might be another issue for PCGen
      <AlphaSEQ> people either not understanding the rules or not bothering to
      provide feedback
      <[BD]mertonmonk> If Wotc does announce 4e, they'd better have a *good*
      generator ready at launch time! I'd like to help write it :)
      <AlphaSEQ> and a good conversion guide for all the campaign specific 3 and
      3.5 books
      <[BD]mertonmonk> we'll be handing out lots of PCGen CDs at GenCon - maybe
      that will help get some new people interested in helping out
      <AlphaSEQ> that is part of what started to put me off of D&D
      <[BD]mertonmonk> alpha - good point!
      <AlphaSEQ> FR got caught by the rules conversion
      <[BD]mertonmonk> though I wonder how much more like GURPS they can become
      without calling it GURPS - with class levels.
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> lol Bryan
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> so, anything else from anyone out there?
      <[Content_SB]mosat> nope
      <[BD]mertonmonk> nothing here
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I thought we'd have more of an audience
      <AlphaSEQ> nope. Just good luck at Gencon and hope it leads to more
      recruits to your small, but loyal, monkey army
      <[BD]mertonmonk> thanks :)
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I take it you won't be there?
      <AlphaSEQ> never gone to a Con
      <AlphaSEQ> too expensive to get to them for me
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I've only ever been to GenCon - and only 5 of them!
      <[Content_SB]mosat> where are you at Alpha?
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      * ChanServ sets mode: +o [CM]Zaister
      <AlphaSEQ> SW region
      <AlphaSEQ> Arizona
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I used to go to Dragon Con in atlanta all the time in
      the '90s
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll probably go to AZ in march to see some baseball. I'm a
      big baseball fan :)
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I went this year and it was great!
      <[BD]mertonmonk> Too hot there in the summer
      <AlphaSEQ> worse
      <AlphaSEQ> it was muggy as well
      * [AFK]Zaister has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
      <[BD]mertonmonk> I heard it was especially bad this year
      <AlphaSEQ> first time in 10 years, but we are in a drought
      <[Content_SB]mosat> I gotta split guys, good talking with ya, see you
      saturday merton
      <[TM-SB]kingpaul> oh, and no meeting next week
      <[BD]mertonmonk> right. see you there Eddy!
      <[Content_SB]mosat> night
      * [Content_SB]mosat has left #pcgen
      <[BD]mertonmonk> Paul - do you post the log?
      <[BD]mertonmonk> ok - I gotta run as well. cya all later!

      ===

      Paul W. King
      TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Gibbon, BoD
      --
      No virus found in this outgoing message.
      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
      Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • taluroniscandar
      ... come bug me ... Wish I could make it to see that. ... in no ... Ahem!
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 14, 2005
        > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think the CMP booth is 454 if anyone wants to
        come bug me
        > and see our big inflatable monkeys :)

        Wish I could make it to see that.


        > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i think the biggest contributing data monkeys are,
        in no
        > particular order:
        > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Tir, Barak, Doug, Eddy, myself and Kar


        Ahem!
      • karianna03
        Hey all, Yeah I m back, but in London, UK, not NZ :-). I m still on my walkabout but currently have a job that I travel 4 hours a day for, so once I get my
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 15, 2005
          Hey all,

          Yeah I'm back, but in London, UK, not NZ :-). I'm still on my
          walkabout but currently have a job that I travel 4 hours a day for, so
          once I get my Laptop back I'll be able to contribute again.

          I'm not sure whether I'll look @ code or start rabble rousing the
          monkeys again, judging by the "Lots of teams struggling comment" I may
          need to bring my whip back out of retirement.

          If someone could add me back to the project(s) that would be great :-).

          Karianna
        • James Dempsey
          Hi Kar, On 15/08/2005 7:36 PM karianna03 wrote ... Welcome back! I ve added you to the pcgen project but I ll let you select your own role though :) Cheers,
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 15, 2005
            Hi Kar,

            On 15/08/2005 7:36 PM karianna03 wrote

            >Hey all,
            >
            >Yeah I'm back, but in London, UK, not NZ :-). I'm still on my
            >walkabout but currently have a job that I travel 4 hours a day for, so
            >once I get my Laptop back I'll be able to contribute again.
            >
            >I'm not sure whether I'll look @ code or start rabble rousing the
            >monkeys again, judging by the "Lots of teams struggling comment" I may
            >need to bring my whip back out of retirement.
            >
            >If someone could add me back to the project(s) that would be great :-).
            >
            >
            >
            Welcome back! I've added you to the pcgen project but I'll let you
            select your own role though :)

            Cheers,
            James Dempsey
            PCGen Code Gibbon
          • karianna03
            Thanks! Let the monkeys beware.... K
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 15, 2005
              Thanks!

              Let the monkeys beware....

              K

              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@a...> wrote:
              > Hi Kar,
              >
              > On 15/08/2005 7:36 PM karianna03 wrote
              >
              > >Hey all,
              > >
              > >Yeah I'm back, but in London, UK, not NZ :-). I'm still on my
              > >walkabout but currently have a job that I travel 4 hours a day for, so
              > >once I get my Laptop back I'll be able to contribute again.
              > >
              > >I'm not sure whether I'll look @ code or start rabble rousing the
              > >monkeys again, judging by the "Lots of teams struggling comment" I may
              > >need to bring my whip back out of retirement.
              > >
              > >If someone could add me back to the project(s) that would be great :-).
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > Welcome back! I've added you to the pcgen project but I'll let you
              > select your own role though :)
              >
              > Cheers,
              > James Dempsey
              > PCGen Code Gibbon
            • Paul W. King
              In my defense, I did say I think . I don t know everyone on the data team, and did not mean to slight anyone. My apologies...and I now realize I forgot the
              Message 6 of 22 , Aug 15, 2005
                In my defense, I did say 'I think'. I don't know everyone on the data team, and did not mean to slight anyone. My apologies...and
                I now realize I forgot the Beaver Gorilla.

                Paul W. King
                TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Gibbon, BoD

                -----Original Message-----
                From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                taluroniscandar
                Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 10:36 PM
                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [pcgen] Re: BoD log - 8/14/05

                > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i think the biggest contributing data monkeys are,
                in no
                > particular order:
                > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Tir, Barak, Doug, Eddy, myself and Kar

                Ahem!
                --
                No virus found in this outgoing message.
                Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005
              • karianna03
                Hey Paul, I thought I d start working as a TM again to start off with (until I get code base downloaded etc). Could you drop me a mail with what needs to be
                Message 7 of 22 , Aug 15, 2005
                  Hey Paul,

                  I thought I'd start working as a TM again to start off with (until I
                  get code base downloaded etc). Could you drop me a mail with what
                  needs to be done? And who/where/what/how/when about the TM team in
                  particular?

                  Not sure what rank I start off with ;p

                  Karianna

                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King" <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                  > In my defense, I did say 'I think'. I don't know everyone on the
                  data team, and did not mean to slight anyone. My apologies...and
                  > I now realize I forgot the Beaver Gorilla.
                  >
                  > Paul W. King
                  > TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Gibbon, BoD
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                  > taluroniscandar
                  > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 10:36 PM
                  > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [pcgen] Re: BoD log - 8/14/05
                  >
                  > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i think the biggest contributing data monkeys are,
                  > in no
                  > > particular order:
                  > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Tir, Barak, Doug, Eddy, myself and Kar
                  >
                  > Ahem!
                  > --
                  > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005
                • Eddy Anthony
                  ... He he, I just said five or six guys, knowing that if I gave names I d probably miss some. I guess Paul has learned one of the dangers of public meetings.
                  Message 8 of 22 , Aug 15, 2005
                    On 8/14/05 11:35 PM, "taluroniscandar" <mhgj@...> wrote:

                    >> <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i think the biggest contributing data monkeys are,
                    >> in no particular order:
                    >> <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Tir, Barak, Doug, Eddy, myself and Kar
                    >
                    >
                    > Ahem!

                    He he, I just said five or six guys, knowing that if I gave names I'd
                    probably miss some. I guess Paul has learned one of the dangers of public
                    meetings.

                    Yes in addition to those he named Michael Grey (taluroniscandar), Andargor
                    and a recent addition Frank Kliewe contribute to the data effort. Michael
                    has taken on the task of looking at Psionics issues as well as being a force
                    in the Epic set effort. Frank is focused on the Modern side of things.
                    Andargors script wizardry has been indispensable.

                    There are more folks who may not be working in CVS but from time to time
                    crank out a dataset or two. We appreciate all contributors.
                    --
                    ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                    ~ PCGen Content Silverback
                  • Bob Roberts
                    Is there a good way to take a character created with tithe 35e rules and convert it to DnD_v35e rules? Or do I just have to start all over and create it
                    Message 9 of 22 , Aug 15, 2005
                      Is there a good way to take a character created with tithe "35e" rules
                      and convert it to "DnD_v35e" rules? Or do I just have to start all over
                      and create it again?

                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • thoron-tir-gwaith@lycos.com
                      ... Heh. Doug s been gone a while now, along with Ian, and Arknath, and -- ok, I m not going to keep listing those or I ll get depressed. We lose most of the
                      Message 10 of 22 , Aug 15, 2005
                        > In my defense, I did say 'I think'. I don't know everyone on the
                        > data team, and did not mean to slight anyone. My apologies...and
                        > I now realize I forgot the Beaver Gorilla.

                        Heh. Doug's been gone a while now, along with Ian, and Arknath, and -- ok, I'm not going to keep listing those or I'll get depressed. We lose most of the really good LST monkeys to burn-out. Trying to flesh out the Data team with more some-times contributors hasn't really taken off either. I think the CVS learning curve hurts us there.

                        Tir Gwaith
                        LST Chimp

                        --
                      • thoron-tir-gwaith@lycos.com
                        ... No idea, since I don t know how the GameMode and defines are set up. I don t own CMP sets. It would prob. be better to ask them. Tir Gwaith LST Chimp --
                        Message 11 of 22 , Aug 15, 2005
                          > Is there a good way to take a character created with tithe "35e" rules
                          > and convert it to "DnD_v35e" rules? Or do I just have to start all over
                          > and create it again?

                          No idea, since I don't know how the GameMode and defines are set up. I don't own CMP sets. It would prob. be better to ask them.

                          Tir Gwaith
                          LST Chimp


                          --
                        • thoron-tir-gwaith@lycos.com
                          Great to see you back, Kar! I d love to see you back as the Monkey Wrangler, since we ve really missed that. I d hate to see you burn out quickly tho. :)
                          Message 12 of 22 , Aug 15, 2005
                            Great to see you back, Kar! I'd love to see you back as the Monkey
                            Wrangler, since we've really missed that. I'd hate to see you burn
                            out quickly tho. :)

                            Right now we are in limbo - GenCon is basically here, and I'm
                            waiting for the usual fall-out that happens after/during GenCon. I still
                            haven't figured out if GenCon is good or bad for the project. It
                            is one of those Vorlon "three-edged swords."'

                            I've got my fire extinguisher all preped, since _something_ will happen.

                            Tir Gwaith
                            LST Chimp

                            > I'm not sure whether I'll look @ code or start rabble rousing the
                            > monkeys again, judging by the "Lots of teams struggling comment" I may
                            > need to bring my whip back out of retirement.
                            >
                            > If someone could add me back to the project(s) that would be great :-).
                            >
                            > Karianna

                            --
                          • Chris
                            Woohoo! Have to agree with Tir. Welcome back Kar. Barak
                            Message 13 of 22 , Aug 15, 2005
                              Woohoo! Have to agree with Tir.

                              Welcome back Kar.

                              Barak


                              > Great to see you back, Kar! I'd love to see you back as the Monkey
                              > Wrangler, since we've really missed that.

                              ---

                              > > I'm not sure whether I'll look @ code or start rabble rousing the
                              > > monkeys again, judging by the "Lots of teams struggling comment" I
                              > > may need to bring my whip back out of retirement.
                            • taluroniscandar
                              Yes, welcome
                              Message 14 of 22 , Aug 16, 2005
                                Yes, welcome
                                > ---
                                >
                                > > > I'm not sure whether I'll look @ code or start rabble rousing the
                                > > > monkeys again, judging by the "Lots of teams struggling comment" I
                                > > > may need to bring my whip back out of retirement.
                              • merton_monk
                                Karianna! You can have whatever rank you want! :) -Bryan ... 8/14/2005
                                Message 15 of 22 , Aug 17, 2005
                                  Karianna!

                                  You can have whatever rank you want! :)

                                  -Bryan

                                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "karianna03" <karianna@c...> wrote:
                                  > Hey Paul,
                                  >
                                  > I thought I'd start working as a TM again to start off with (until I
                                  > get code base downloaded etc). Could you drop me a mail with what
                                  > needs to be done? And who/where/what/how/when about the TM team in
                                  > particular?
                                  >
                                  > Not sure what rank I start off with ;p
                                  >
                                  > Karianna
                                  >
                                  > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King" <paulking.rhochi@v...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > > In my defense, I did say 'I think'. I don't know everyone on the
                                  > data team, and did not mean to slight anyone. My apologies...and
                                  > > I now realize I forgot the Beaver Gorilla.
                                  > >
                                  > > Paul W. King
                                  > > TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Gibbon, BoD
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                                  > > taluroniscandar
                                  > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 10:36 PM
                                  > > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Subject: [pcgen] Re: BoD log - 8/14/05
                                  > >
                                  > > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i think the biggest contributing data monkeys are,
                                  > > in no
                                  > > > particular order:
                                  > > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Tir, Barak, Doug, Eddy, myself and Kar
                                  > >
                                  > > Ahem!
                                  > > --
                                  > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                  > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                                  > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date:
                                  8/14/2005
                                • karianna03
                                  Bryan, have you lost your mind? Well, in that case ;p Karianna Keeper of the Jar of Lost Souls TM Chimp,
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Aug 17, 2005
                                    Bryan, have you lost your mind? Well, in that case ;p

                                    <Karianna promptly reclaims her jar of Lost Souls>

                                    Karianna
                                    Keeper of the Jar of Lost Souls
                                    TM Chimp, LST Lemur, OS Tamarin, Code ?
                                    Chief Monkey Whipper

                                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "merton_monk" <merton_monk@y...> wrote:
                                    > Karianna!
                                    >
                                    > You can have whatever rank you want! :)
                                    >
                                    > -Bryan
                                    >
                                    > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "karianna03" <karianna@c...> wrote:
                                    > > Hey Paul,
                                    > >
                                    > > I thought I'd start working as a TM again to start off with (until I
                                    > > get code base downloaded etc). Could you drop me a mail with what
                                    > > needs to be done? And who/where/what/how/when about the TM team in
                                    > > particular?
                                    > >
                                    > > Not sure what rank I start off with ;p
                                    > >
                                    > > Karianna
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King" <paulking.rhochi@v...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > > > In my defense, I did say 'I think'. I don't know everyone on the
                                    > > data team, and did not mean to slight anyone. My apologies...and
                                    > > > I now realize I forgot the Beaver Gorilla.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Paul W. King
                                    > > > TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Gibbon, BoD
                                    > > >
                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com]On
                                    Behalf Of
                                    > > > taluroniscandar
                                    > > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 10:36 PM
                                    > > > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > Subject: [pcgen] Re: BoD log - 8/14/05
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i think the biggest contributing data
                                    monkeys are,
                                    > > > in no
                                    > > > > particular order:
                                    > > > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Tir, Barak, Doug, Eddy, myself and Kar
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Ahem!
                                    > > > --
                                    > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                    > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                                    > > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date:
                                    > 8/14/2005
                                  • Paul W. King
                                    ... *Hands jar over* There, you re a better keeper of it anyway. :D Paul W. King TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Gibbon, BoD
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Aug 17, 2005
                                      > Bryan, have you lost your mind? Well, in that case ;p
                                      >
                                      > <Karianna promptly reclaims her jar of Lost Souls>

                                      *Hands jar over*

                                      There, you're a better keeper of it anyway. :D

                                      Paul W. King
                                      TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Gibbon, BoD
                                    • Terry FitzSimons
                                      I really doubt it as CMP datasets need their special core dataset to work. So its either convert the dataset to PcGen core or remake the character after you
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Aug 25, 2005
                                        I really doubt it as CMP datasets need their special core dataset to work.
                                        So its either convert the dataset to PcGen core or remake the character
                                        after you figure out how to make a new character with the CMP dataset. I
                                        gave up trying to get them to work and started converting the rest of the
                                        5.6.1 version for 5.8.0 stable release.


                                        On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:47:32 -0600, you wrote:

                                        >Is there a good way to take a character created with tithe "35e" rules
                                        >and convert it to "DnD_v35e" rules? Or do I just have to start all over
                                        >and create it again?

                                        --

                                        Terry FitzSimons
                                        FITZSIMONS@...(Small Letters Only)
                                      • Kurt Wimmer
                                        Would it be possible to have both the minutes and the log - I find the minutes far more immediately useful. A single email with minutes at the top would be
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Sep 2, 2005
                                          Would it be possible to have both the minutes and the log - I find the
                                          minutes far more "immediately" useful.
                                          A single email with minutes at the top would be great :)

                                          And then this back and forth between the log and minutes every so often
                                          could stop :)

                                          The log just lets the people figure out how the minutes came to be, if
                                          their really that interested in knowing.

                                          Kurt


                                          Paul W. King wrote:

                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> and i now have 9:30 PM EST (GMT -5)
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Code, go
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> not much action on the code front, but we do seem to have
                                          > more coders involved.
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> activity has picked up a bit, which is nice to see
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> that's cool
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> any thought of when 5.9.2 should come out?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> andrew wilson and Stefan Radermacher have been coding
                                          > up a
                                          > storm :)
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think 5.9.2 can't come out soon enough (i.e. now
                                          > would be
                                          > nice) :)
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> let everyone help make sure that all this coding has
                                          > broken
                                          > anything that's not obvious.
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> erm, make sure it *hasn't*....
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> *blush*
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> lol...i knew what you meant
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> anything else Bryan?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> nope, that's it on coding
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Content, go
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> not much to report
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> it's been somewhat quite this week
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> did figure out a few things data wise
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> that's cool
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> what datasets are in the fire that you know of?
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> Epic and Arcana are getting the business right now
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> k
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> anything else?
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> nope, unless we want to talk about code requests for
                                          > data
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> sure
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> well I've got one I think would be fairly simple but
                                          > would help data solve quite a few problems
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> [1250730] PLUSCOST calculations: Add PLUSTOTAL as
                                          > a COST
                                          > tag variable
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat>
                                          > <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1250730&group_id=2
                                          > <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1250730&group_id=2>
                                          > 5576&atid=384722>
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> This is needed because the plus cost formula for Epic
                                          > items is different (x10) from non-Epic magic items
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> We have had problems trying to manipulate the PLUSCOST
                                          > formulas in the gameMode file
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> Rather than request complex changes to the PLUSCOST
                                          > gameMode tag we think we have hit on a simple solution
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> All we need is an additional hardcoded variable we can
                                          > use in the COST and BONUS:ITEMCOST tags:
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> PLUSTOTAL, this would return the total number of
                                          > pluses
                                          > added by the PLUS: tag
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> with this in place we could move the formula out
                                          > of the
                                          > gameMode and into the data
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> Because all plus costing enhancements require at
                                          > least a
                                          > +1 enhancement and all the enhancement EQMODs are mutually exclusive the
                                          > cost formula could be applied there
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> For example, the +1 enhancement to Armor would include
                                          > this:
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> +1 (Enhancement to Armor) PLUS:1 COST:1000*PLUS*PLUS
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> With this the Epic plus costs would be simple and this
                                          > would also solve some other issues like the plus cost of Shuriken
                                          > (which is
                                          > currently wrong)
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> best of all the existing code does not need to be
                                          > removed or altered, we can simply comment out or remove the PLUSCOST tags
                                          > from the gameMode files
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> hows that?
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> interesting
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> did you follow that Bryan?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> seems fairly straightforward, but BONUS tags usually
                                          > have 2
                                          > elements before the formula
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> like BONUS:COMBAT|AC|2
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> BONUS:ITEMCOST|what?|1000*PLUS*PLUS
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> or would it be BONUS:ITEM|COST|formula
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> BONUS:ITEMCOST|TYPE.Thing|1000*PLUS*PLUS
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> TYPE is the element you are looking for
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> it would stay the same syntax, we just need a VAR to
                                          > return the number of pluses
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> it's been a long time since I've delved into that
                                          > code, but
                                          > I don't think this should be that big of a deal
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> we'd need to make sure that all item costs were
                                          > scrutinized
                                          > to make sure nothing is broken
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> since this obviously impacts a lot of items (anything
                                          > magical!)
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> this would be something for a coder who has worked in the
                                          > equipment code before - a 2-3 day type effort just to be safe
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> sure would, but tranfering the formula to the data
                                          > would
                                          > be transparent to the user
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> right, but there's till the potential for breakage
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> the cost formula is currently in the code?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> maybe we can talk Devon into fixing it while we're at
                                          > gencon :)
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> that would be nice
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> there is a cost formula, but I forget the details. this
                                          > would be in addition to that
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> you just posted it
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> 1000*PLUS*PLUS
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> for armor
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I mean how all the BONUS tags work together for
                                          > determining
                                          > cost.
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> Oh
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> there's more to it than just BONUS:ITEMCOST... there are
                                          > actually a few steps to it
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> but I can't recall the exact steps without looking
                                          > through
                                          > the code
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I just remember that it was a bit convoluted...
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> I have uncovered another issue related to pricing
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> care to hear it?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> sure ;)
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> it concerns specific items
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> they are constructed with EQMODs and the price
                                          > difference is added to the COST tag
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> the bug is that if the item is resized the new cost is
                                          > factored using the COST tag value
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> which represents the value of the magical
                                          > enhancments as
                                          > well as the cost of the base item
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> it is only the base item which should be refactored
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> I have found a solution too
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> good, because my head is spinning! :)
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> I've created an EQMOD with which you can add cost
                                          > to the
                                          > item, then the COST tag can hold only the cost of the base item and only
                                          > that is refactored when it is resized
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> he, if that got you then how about this:
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> masterwork and magical EQMODs do not get refactored
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> but
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> I believe base materials like Mithral and
                                          > Adamantine do
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> so if you make a Large Armor out of Mithral it should
                                          > cost twice as much as the same armor as for a mediium creature
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> but neither our data or CMPs data does this
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> how does it behave now?
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> If you make colasal Full plate Mithral armor the full
                                          > plate will cost 16 times as much but the Mithral EQMOD costs no
                                          > different as
                                          > medium sized full plate
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> unfortunately I have not found any explicite rules
                                          > that
                                          > say that
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> Mithral items other than armor have their cost
                                          > based on
                                          > weight so that leaves me to believe that it should work this way
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> hm
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> but I have not found anything in the FAQ or anywhere
                                          > else
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> you're probably right. maybe we can pin down someone at
                                          > Wotc at GenCon to make it explicit
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> but what you're saying makes logical sense
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> that would be cool
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> anything else Eddy?
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> I'm trying to make a list of all these nit picks
                                          > we have
                                          > uncovered this year
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> what day will you bet at GenCon? saturday? I'll make a
                                          > point to go with you to the Wotc booth and see if we can get some answers
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> only that if we need to adjust these EQMODs for size I
                                          > have a solution for that
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> I'll be there saturday, as early as I can, I'm driving
                                          > overnight
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> OK content status is done
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> early being before 10am?
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> yah
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> at least by 10
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> ok, PL
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i still haven't heard from Necromancer Games, but that
                                          > doesn't surprise me
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i'll email them again next week after GenCon
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> has any thought been given to finding a replacement for
                                          > Beaver?
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> or ami back to being the PL SB?
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> we seem to be running very short handed in the SB
                                          > dept.
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> true...RL seems to have hit all of us pretty hard this
                                          > summer
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> you, me, Reed, Paul G, Devon and Eric
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> and few volunteers are working up the ranks
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> code seems to be doing ok, but it seems like all the
                                          > other
                                          > teams are hurting
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I just got another code volunteer today - he wants to
                                          > focus
                                          > on GMGen type functionality
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> data people seem to be especially hard to come by
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> true, but Frank is a welcome addition
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> hope he doesn't get frustrated by the slow pace
                                          > progress
                                          > can take sometimes
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> this is something we'll need to discuss on saturday. if
                                          > we're having trouble retaining data people, or what the issue is
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> any idea of Kar's comment about being back means
                                          > he's back
                                          > to work?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I didn't know Kar had said anything - when/where was
                                          > that?
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> on a tracker, and a post to the main list
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I knew he was back (as in NZ) a long time ago
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> I was the only one who replied back to his post
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> cool. I assume he'd contact me or one of us if he
                                          > wanted to
                                          > jump back in the BoD
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> he's certainly welcomed back anytime he wants
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I don't get to read all the posts anymore - I wish I had
                                          > the time to read them all like I used to
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> Getting ready for gencon this year is especially busy!
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll find his post and say hi :)
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> that's understandable Bryan
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> well, that's all i had for PL
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> TM
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> because of the aforementioned RL, i haven't had a chance
                                          > to look closely through the 1+ yr old Code Freqs
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i still want to do that, but its looking like not until
                                          > after Labor Day, as i have 2 separate vacations coming up
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> one with my family, one with Jen's
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> when is labor day this year?
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> Sept 5
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> thanks Eddy, stepped away to get a Kleenex
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> on a kind of unrelated note, did we ever nail down
                                          > the spec
                                          > for 5.10?
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> yes, it was going to clean my toilet :D
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I know we had discussed it, but I don't recall any firm
                                          > conclusion
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> well data has a list of datasets, including
                                          > getting full
                                          > support done for the xSRDs
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> and be compatible with your coffee grinder
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> ans I presented a list of features data would like to
                                          > get code support for
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i think full support of the xSRDs is probably a good
                                          > goal
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> we even got the community to prioritize it
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> have you trackered those requests Eddy?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think we need to make the spec prominently displayed on
                                          > the SF page so everyone can see what we're shooting for
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> but I have not heard what the code team is
                                          > committed to
                                          > other than that they are working on the ability objetc first
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> and so Paul, or some other TM we can bribe/prod into the
                                          > job, can go and prioritize all the trackers accordingly...
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> I think they are all trackered
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> frugal made an attempt, and then it got delayed, right?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll have to talk to devon about what the current
                                          > status of
                                          > that project is.
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> if not it is because that exact appraouch on how
                                          > to deal
                                          > with the issues has not been worked out
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> it has a big impact on what data can be done as well
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> no, i believe Frugal was working on CDOM, not the
                                          > Ability
                                          > object
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> right
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> oh - that's right. I got them mixed up.
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> he wasn't able to start
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> ok, I'm still not sure where the ability object is code
                                          > wise
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I haven't heard anything about it in a few weeks
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> ok, i'm done with TM, and we've already drifted into
                                          > open
                                          > discussion
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I do want to discuss a PCGen getogether
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> sounds like it will be lunch on saturday since Eddy
                                          > will be
                                          > there then
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> are we done with 5.10 spec scope?
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> :-)
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> we need Devon for the 5.10 discussion
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll corner him at gencon :)
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think the CMP booth is 454 if anyone wants to come
                                          > bug me
                                          > and see our big inflatable monkeys :)
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> scifi monkeys
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> alright, corner Devon at GenCon
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> what about scifi monkeys AlphaSEQ?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> all monkeys are scifi fans
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> seen the scifi blurb where the guy blows up the dog like a
                                          > balloon?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll post an announcement about the pcgen get-together on
                                          > saturday
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> oh yeah - I've seen that commercial!
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> Scifi just went to a different cable package so I
                                          > don't get
                                          > it anymore :(
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> so, instead of a dog, you've blown up some monkeys
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> not seen that commercial
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> but it sounds appropriate
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll probably end up having to blow up the monkey again
                                          > this year...
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> anything else on the GenCon get-together?
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> how many total monkeys are there working on the various
                                          > subparts
                                          > of pcgen?
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> hey, i helped last year
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> heh
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> good question AlphaSEQ
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I don't know, but only 4 can sit at any one time ;)
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> on the PL team, its just me
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> the OGL team is Paul G, Larry Plympton (whom i haven't
                                          > seen in quite some time) and myself
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> Docs: me, OS:Chuck pint
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> we need more members on the PL team! and the data
                                          > team, and
                                          > OGL, and... well, just about every team!
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> Data: there are about five guys
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> trackers are me, Eddy, Papa, Ravagon and, i think,
                                          > Andargor (there may be others who post occasionally...i can't recall
                                          > everyone
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> I wonder if part of the issue with Data is the fact that
                                          > the most
                                          > wanted/needed files aren't OGL
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> there are alot of non-active monkeys out there
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> e.g. FR, Eberron, WotC addons, etc...
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> the data team used to be big
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> could be
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i think the biggest contributing data monkeys are, in no
                                          > particular order:
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> maybe thats the reason for the decline
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Tir, Barak, Doug, Eddy, myself and Kar
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> CMP doesn't have many data monkeys either, so I don't
                                          > think
                                          > it's an OGL-or-not type issue
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> there are more, but i think that group contains the ones
                                          > who've done the most
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> I think it takes a particular person
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> oh, forgot Mynex
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> one who like the logic challange of it
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> yeah, some stuff is *quite* convoluted
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> yeah, it's definitely a skill.
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> does CMP accept outside coders and if so, how do they reimburse
                                          > them since they are a for-profit company?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I've always been amazed at what you data monkeys can get
                                          > to work considering what you have to work with!
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> It's may main hobby right now, spend much more time in
                                          > the data and the docs than I do actually gaming
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> outside coders for what? nothing more is being done on
                                          > ETools, and PCGen coding is on a volunteer basis
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> if you mean for data, you bet we accept outside coders
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> they make data files (which is kind of coding)
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> if you're intersted in doing work for CMP, go here:
                                          > http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&
                                          > <http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&>
                                          > pid=13
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> CMP is always happy to get more people - especially
                                          > anyone
                                          > good with data!
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> are they reimbursed for their work?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> of course
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> ok... that cuts off that line of thought then, heheh
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> a couple of people have actually said they didn't want to
                                          > be paid. they just liked to do the work.
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Mynex has stated on their boards that they still have
                                          > troubles getting data monkeys, even though they do compensate
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> there aren't too many people around like that ;)
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> and you did sent then back here right? :-)
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think if we ever got the LST editors to work, it'd make
                                          > it a lot easier
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> that'd be nice
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i know i mostly tell folks to not use them because
                                          > they're
                                          > rather buggy
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> then I would guess the lack of them is from the perception that
                                          > has grown up since pcgen stopped distributing content like SW d20
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> yeah - but if we got them to work, it would make LST
                                          > work a
                                          > lot easier and I think do a lot to get more involved in it
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> alpha - maybe. I'm still hoping we can eventually get to
                                          > the point where we can get Lucas' approval.
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> they would need to be alot more robust than they
                                          > are now
                                          > for me to use them
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> AlphaSEQ, what do you see the perception as?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'd love to include SW d20 again
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> heck at this point any licensed set would be a
                                          > huge step
                                          > in that directionn
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> The perception, from my point of view, is basically the loss of
                                          > functionality
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> stuff that was there is gone, and only some of what was
                                          > there can
                                          > be obtained from CMP
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> so we need to talk to Mongoose saturday about
                                          > Babylon 5
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> yeah, though the alternative was the loss of everything.
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think CMP has been able to cover everything other
                                          > than SW
                                          > that was lost.
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> so those that do play SW D20, FR, Eberron, etc... don't see
                                          > PCGen
                                          > as being a useful app
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> unless they can code the data themselves
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> CMP has eberron
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> but I know what you mean
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> right, but most people (and I don't disagree with what
                                          > happened)
                                          > see it as "I got the application for free, and now I have to pay to
                                          > get what
                                          > I need"
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> right, I've been fighting that battle for a few years now
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> in some ways it feels like a "Bait and Switch" type of thing
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> it would be a bait and switch if it had been planned that
                                          > way, but I think I've made it pretty clear what all happened
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> you have to me, but that doesn't mean everyone sees it that way
                                          > or understands it that way...
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> In any event, I'm pleased that PCGen gets to continue to
                                          > exist and be free and add to what it offers for free
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> so am I
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'm also happy that CMP gets to produce closed data at a
                                          > very low price (compared to the amount of effort it takes to create the
                                          > data)
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> this keeps Wotc happy and (I hope) our customers happy
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> it's a difficult tight-rope to walk, but we try to do our
                                          > best
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> I've been playing with PCGen since before the the 2.x -> 3.x
                                          > shakeup
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think PCGen has improved far beyond what it could do in
                                          > 2.x
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> but talking with others at my gaming store look at PCGen as
                                          > being
                                          > useless to them, heheh
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> oh yes, there has been many changes since the 2.x
                                          > days...and i started back in 1.4.x
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I sometimes wonder if Wotc will let us release the
                                          > data for
                                          > free if/when they announce 4e
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> if they go to 4e before a decade of 3.5e has gone by, then they
                                          > can kiss me good bye as a customer
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> The fact that they are now owned by Hasboro dictates more
                                          > to them then if they ran the show themselves
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> Alpha has a point, I think a lot of folks gave up on
                                          > PCGen when the closed content material was removed and have not been
                                          > back to
                                          > see the improvements
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> When did 3e come out? was it 2000?
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> yep
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> and 3.5 was less than 3 years later
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> just the other day I read someone comment on a forum
                                          > that PCGen couldn't do monster advancment properly
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> so 5 years so far.
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> don't know where that came from, I've never heard
                                          > it was
                                          > a problem
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> me neither
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> that might be another issue for PCGen
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> people either not understanding the rules or not bothering to
                                          > provide feedback
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> If Wotc does announce 4e, they'd better have a *good*
                                          > generator ready at launch time! I'd like to help write it :)
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> and a good conversion guide for all the campaign specific 3 and
                                          > 3.5 books
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> we'll be handing out lots of PCGen CDs at GenCon - maybe
                                          > that will help get some new people interested in helping out
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> that is part of what started to put me off of D&D
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> alpha - good point!
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> FR got caught by the rules conversion
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> though I wonder how much more like GURPS they can become
                                          > without calling it GURPS - with class levels.
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> lol Bryan
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> so, anything else from anyone out there?
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> nope
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> nothing here
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I thought we'd have more of an audience
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> nope. Just good luck at Gencon and hope it leads to more
                                          > recruits to your small, but loyal, monkey army
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> thanks :)
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I take it you won't be there?
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> never gone to a Con
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> too expensive to get to them for me
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I've only ever been to GenCon - and only 5 of them!
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> where are you at Alpha?
                                          > * [CM]Zaister has joined #pcgen
                                          > * ChanServ sets mode: +o [CM]Zaister
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> SW region
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> Arizona
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> I used to go to Dragon Con in atlanta all the time in
                                          > the '90s
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll probably go to AZ in march to see some baseball.
                                          > I'm a
                                          > big baseball fan :)
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I went this year and it was great!
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> Too hot there in the summer
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> worse
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> it was muggy as well
                                          > * [AFK]Zaister has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> I heard it was especially bad this year
                                          > <AlphaSEQ> first time in 10 years, but we are in a drought
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> I gotta split guys, good talking with ya, see you
                                          > saturday merton
                                          > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> oh, and no meeting next week
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> right. see you there Eddy!
                                          > <[Content_SB]mosat> night
                                          > * [Content_SB]mosat has left #pcgen
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> Paul - do you post the log?
                                          > <[BD]mertonmonk> ok - I gotta run as well. cya all later!
                                          >
                                          > ===
                                          >
                                          > Paul W. King
                                          > TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Gibbon, BoD
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                                          >
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                                          >
                                          > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                          > PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
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                                          > http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/
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                                        • merton_monk
                                          Problem is that someone then has to write the minutes... I nominate you for that task. :) -Bryan ... to have ... coding ... requests for ... simple but ...
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Sep 3, 2005
                                            Problem is that someone then has to write the minutes... I nominate
                                            you for that task. :)

                                            -Bryan

                                            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Kurt Wimmer <kwimmer@r...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Would it be possible to have both the minutes and the log - I find the
                                            > minutes far more "immediately" useful.
                                            > A single email with minutes at the top would be great :)
                                            >
                                            > And then this back and forth between the log and minutes every so often
                                            > could stop :)
                                            >
                                            > The log just lets the people figure out how the minutes came to be, if
                                            > their really that interested in knowing.
                                            >
                                            > Kurt
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Paul W. King wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> and i now have 9:30 PM EST (GMT -5)
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Code, go
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> not much action on the code front, but we do seem
                                            to have
                                            > > more coders involved.
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> activity has picked up a bit, which is nice to see
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> that's cool
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> any thought of when 5.9.2 should come out?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> andrew wilson and Stefan Radermacher have been
                                            coding
                                            > > up a
                                            > > storm :)
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think 5.9.2 can't come out soon enough (i.e. now
                                            > > would be
                                            > > nice) :)
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> let everyone help make sure that all this coding has
                                            > > broken
                                            > > anything that's not obvious.
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> erm, make sure it *hasn't*....
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> *blush*
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> lol...i knew what you meant
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> anything else Bryan?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> nope, that's it on coding
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Content, go
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> not much to report
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> it's been somewhat quite this week
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> did figure out a few things data wise
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> that's cool
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> what datasets are in the fire that you know of?
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> Epic and Arcana are getting the business right now
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> k
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> anything else?
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> nope, unless we want to talk about code
                                            requests for
                                            > > data
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> sure
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> well I've got one I think would be fairly
                                            simple but
                                            > > would help data solve quite a few problems
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> [1250730] PLUSCOST calculations: Add PLUSTOTAL as
                                            > > a COST
                                            > > tag variable
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat>
                                            > >
                                            <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1250730&group_id=2

                                            > >
                                            <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1250730&group_id=2>
                                            > > 5576&atid=384722>
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> This is needed because the plus cost formula
                                            for Epic
                                            > > items is different (x10) from non-Epic magic items
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> We have had problems trying to manipulate the
                                            PLUSCOST
                                            > > formulas in the gameMode file
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> Rather than request complex changes to the
                                            PLUSCOST
                                            > > gameMode tag we think we have hit on a simple solution
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> All we need is an additional hardcoded
                                            variable we can
                                            > > use in the COST and BONUS:ITEMCOST tags:
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> PLUSTOTAL, this would return the total number of
                                            > > pluses
                                            > > added by the PLUS: tag
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> with this in place we could move the formula out
                                            > > of the
                                            > > gameMode and into the data
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> Because all plus costing enhancements require at
                                            > > least a
                                            > > +1 enhancement and all the enhancement EQMODs are mutually
                                            exclusive the
                                            > > cost formula could be applied there
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> For example, the +1 enhancement to Armor would
                                            include
                                            > > this:
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> +1 (Enhancement to Armor) PLUS:1
                                            COST:1000*PLUS*PLUS
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> With this the Epic plus costs would be simple
                                            and this
                                            > > would also solve some other issues like the plus cost of Shuriken
                                            > > (which is
                                            > > currently wrong)
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> best of all the existing code does not need to be
                                            > > removed or altered, we can simply comment out or remove the
                                            PLUSCOST tags
                                            > > from the gameMode files
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> hows that?
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> interesting
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> did you follow that Bryan?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> seems fairly straightforward, but BONUS tags usually
                                            > > have 2
                                            > > elements before the formula
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> like BONUS:COMBAT|AC|2
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> BONUS:ITEMCOST|what?|1000*PLUS*PLUS
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> or would it be BONUS:ITEM|COST|formula
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> BONUS:ITEMCOST|TYPE.Thing|1000*PLUS*PLUS
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> TYPE is the element you are looking for
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> it would stay the same syntax, we just need a
                                            VAR to
                                            > > return the number of pluses
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> it's been a long time since I've delved into that
                                            > > code, but
                                            > > I don't think this should be that big of a deal
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> we'd need to make sure that all item costs were
                                            > > scrutinized
                                            > > to make sure nothing is broken
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> since this obviously impacts a lot of items (anything
                                            > > magical!)
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> this would be something for a coder who has
                                            worked in the
                                            > > equipment code before - a 2-3 day type effort just to be safe
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> sure would, but tranfering the formula to the
                                            data
                                            > > would
                                            > > be transparent to the user
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> right, but there's till the potential for breakage
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> the cost formula is currently in the code?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> maybe we can talk Devon into fixing it while we're at
                                            > > gencon :)
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> that would be nice
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> there is a cost formula, but I forget the
                                            details. this
                                            > > would be in addition to that
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> you just posted it
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> 1000*PLUS*PLUS
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> for armor
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I mean how all the BONUS tags work together for
                                            > > determining
                                            > > cost.
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> Oh
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> there's more to it than just BONUS:ITEMCOST...
                                            there are
                                            > > actually a few steps to it
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> but I can't recall the exact steps without looking
                                            > > through
                                            > > the code
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I just remember that it was a bit convoluted...
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> I have uncovered another issue related to pricing
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> care to hear it?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> sure ;)
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> it concerns specific items
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> they are constructed with EQMODs and the price
                                            > > difference is added to the COST tag
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> the bug is that if the item is resized the new
                                            cost is
                                            > > factored using the COST tag value
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> which represents the value of the magical
                                            > > enhancments as
                                            > > well as the cost of the base item
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> it is only the base item which should be
                                            refactored
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> I have found a solution too
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> good, because my head is spinning! :)
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> I've created an EQMOD with which you can add cost
                                            > > to the
                                            > > item, then the COST tag can hold only the cost of the base item
                                            and only
                                            > > that is refactored when it is resized
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> he, if that got you then how about this:
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> masterwork and magical EQMODs do not get
                                            refactored
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> but
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> I believe base materials like Mithral and
                                            > > Adamantine do
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> so if you make a Large Armor out of Mithral it
                                            should
                                            > > cost twice as much as the same armor as for a mediium creature
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> but neither our data or CMPs data does this
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> how does it behave now?
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> If you make colasal Full plate Mithral armor
                                            the full
                                            > > plate will cost 16 times as much but the Mithral EQMOD costs no
                                            > > different as
                                            > > medium sized full plate
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> unfortunately I have not found any explicite
                                            rules
                                            > > that
                                            > > say that
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> Mithral items other than armor have their cost
                                            > > based on
                                            > > weight so that leaves me to believe that it should work this way
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> hm
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> but I have not found anything in the FAQ or
                                            anywhere
                                            > > else
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> you're probably right. maybe we can pin down
                                            someone at
                                            > > Wotc at GenCon to make it explicit
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> but what you're saying makes logical sense
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> that would be cool
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> anything else Eddy?
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> I'm trying to make a list of all these nit picks
                                            > > we have
                                            > > uncovered this year
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> what day will you bet at GenCon? saturday? I'll
                                            make a
                                            > > point to go with you to the Wotc booth and see if we can get some
                                            answers
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> only that if we need to adjust these EQMODs
                                            for size I
                                            > > have a solution for that
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> I'll be there saturday, as early as I can, I'm
                                            driving
                                            > > overnight
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> OK content status is done
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> early being before 10am?
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> yah
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> at least by 10
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> ok, PL
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i still haven't heard from Necromancer Games,
                                            but that
                                            > > doesn't surprise me
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i'll email them again next week after GenCon
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> has any thought been given to finding a
                                            replacement for
                                            > > Beaver?
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> or ami back to being the PL SB?
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> we seem to be running very short handed in the SB
                                            > > dept.
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> true...RL seems to have hit all of us pretty
                                            hard this
                                            > > summer
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> you, me, Reed, Paul G, Devon and Eric
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> and few volunteers are working up the ranks
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> code seems to be doing ok, but it seems like all the
                                            > > other
                                            > > teams are hurting
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I just got another code volunteer today - he
                                            wants to
                                            > > focus
                                            > > on GMGen type functionality
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> data people seem to be especially hard to come by
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> true, but Frank is a welcome addition
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> hope he doesn't get frustrated by the slow pace
                                            > > progress
                                            > > can take sometimes
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> this is something we'll need to discuss on
                                            saturday. if
                                            > > we're having trouble retaining data people, or what the issue is
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> any idea of Kar's comment about being back means
                                            > > he's back
                                            > > to work?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I didn't know Kar had said anything - when/where was
                                            > > that?
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> on a tracker, and a post to the main list
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I knew he was back (as in NZ) a long time ago
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> I was the only one who replied back to his post
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> cool. I assume he'd contact me or one of us if he
                                            > > wanted to
                                            > > jump back in the BoD
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> he's certainly welcomed back anytime he wants
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I don't get to read all the posts anymore - I
                                            wish I had
                                            > > the time to read them all like I used to
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> Getting ready for gencon this year is especially
                                            busy!
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll find his post and say hi :)
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> that's understandable Bryan
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> well, that's all i had for PL
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> TM
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> because of the aforementioned RL, i haven't had
                                            a chance
                                            > > to look closely through the 1+ yr old Code Freqs
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i still want to do that, but its looking like
                                            not until
                                            > > after Labor Day, as i have 2 separate vacations coming up
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> one with my family, one with Jen's
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> when is labor day this year?
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> Sept 5
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> thanks Eddy, stepped away to get a Kleenex
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> on a kind of unrelated note, did we ever nail down
                                            > > the spec
                                            > > for 5.10?
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> yes, it was going to clean my toilet :D
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I know we had discussed it, but I don't recall
                                            any firm
                                            > > conclusion
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> well data has a list of datasets, including
                                            > > getting full
                                            > > support done for the xSRDs
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> and be compatible with your coffee grinder
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> ans I presented a list of features data would
                                            like to
                                            > > get code support for
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i think full support of the xSRDs is probably a
                                            good
                                            > > goal
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> we even got the community to prioritize it
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> have you trackered those requests Eddy?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think we need to make the spec prominently
                                            displayed on
                                            > > the SF page so everyone can see what we're shooting for
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> but I have not heard what the code team is
                                            > > committed to
                                            > > other than that they are working on the ability objetc first
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> and so Paul, or some other TM we can bribe/prod
                                            into the
                                            > > job, can go and prioritize all the trackers accordingly...
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> I think they are all trackered
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> frugal made an attempt, and then it got delayed,
                                            right?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll have to talk to devon about what the current
                                            > > status of
                                            > > that project is.
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> if not it is because that exact appraouch on how
                                            > > to deal
                                            > > with the issues has not been worked out
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> it has a big impact on what data can be done as well
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> no, i believe Frugal was working on CDOM, not the
                                            > > Ability
                                            > > object
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> right
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> oh - that's right. I got them mixed up.
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> he wasn't able to start
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> ok, I'm still not sure where the ability object
                                            is code
                                            > > wise
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I haven't heard anything about it in a few weeks
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> ok, i'm done with TM, and we've already drifted
                                            into
                                            > > open
                                            > > discussion
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I do want to discuss a PCGen getogether
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> sounds like it will be lunch on saturday since Eddy
                                            > > will be
                                            > > there then
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> are we done with 5.10 spec scope?
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> :-)
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> we need Devon for the 5.10 discussion
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll corner him at gencon :)
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think the CMP booth is 454 if anyone wants to come
                                            > > bug me
                                            > > and see our big inflatable monkeys :)
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> scifi monkeys
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> alright, corner Devon at GenCon
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> what about scifi monkeys AlphaSEQ?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> all monkeys are scifi fans
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> seen the scifi blurb where the guy blows up the dog like a
                                            > > balloon?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll post an announcement about the pcgen
                                            get-together on
                                            > > saturday
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> oh yeah - I've seen that commercial!
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> Scifi just went to a different cable package so I
                                            > > don't get
                                            > > it anymore :(
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> so, instead of a dog, you've blown up some monkeys
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> not seen that commercial
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> but it sounds appropriate
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll probably end up having to blow up the monkey
                                            again
                                            > > this year...
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> anything else on the GenCon get-together?
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> how many total monkeys are there working on the various
                                            > > subparts
                                            > > of pcgen?
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> hey, i helped last year
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> heh
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> good question AlphaSEQ
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I don't know, but only 4 can sit at any one time ;)
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> on the PL team, its just me
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> the OGL team is Paul G, Larry Plympton (whom i
                                            haven't
                                            > > seen in quite some time) and myself
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> Docs: me, OS:Chuck pint
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> we need more members on the PL team! and the data
                                            > > team, and
                                            > > OGL, and... well, just about every team!
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> Data: there are about five guys
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> trackers are me, Eddy, Papa, Ravagon and, i think,
                                            > > Andargor (there may be others who post occasionally...i can't recall
                                            > > everyone
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> I wonder if part of the issue with Data is the fact that
                                            > > the most
                                            > > wanted/needed files aren't OGL
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> there are alot of non-active monkeys out there
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> e.g. FR, Eberron, WotC addons, etc...
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> the data team used to be big
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> could be
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i think the biggest contributing data monkeys
                                            are, in no
                                            > > particular order:
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> maybe thats the reason for the decline
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Tir, Barak, Doug, Eddy, myself and Kar
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> CMP doesn't have many data monkeys either, so I
                                            don't
                                            > > think
                                            > > it's an OGL-or-not type issue
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> there are more, but i think that group contains
                                            the ones
                                            > > who've done the most
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> I think it takes a particular person
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> oh, forgot Mynex
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> one who like the logic challange of it
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> yeah, some stuff is *quite* convoluted
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> yeah, it's definitely a skill.
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> does CMP accept outside coders and if so, how do they
                                            reimburse
                                            > > them since they are a for-profit company?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I've always been amazed at what you data monkeys
                                            can get
                                            > > to work considering what you have to work with!
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> It's may main hobby right now, spend much more
                                            time in
                                            > > the data and the docs than I do actually gaming
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> outside coders for what? nothing more is being
                                            done on
                                            > > ETools, and PCGen coding is on a volunteer basis
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> if you mean for data, you bet we accept outside
                                            coders
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> they make data files (which is kind of coding)
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> if you're intersted in doing work for CMP, go here:
                                            > >
                                            http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&

                                            > >
                                            <http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&>
                                            > > pid=13
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> CMP is always happy to get more people - especially
                                            > > anyone
                                            > > good with data!
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> are they reimbursed for their work?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> of course
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> ok... that cuts off that line of thought then, heheh
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> a couple of people have actually said they didn't
                                            want to
                                            > > be paid. they just liked to do the work.
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> Mynex has stated on their boards that they still
                                            have
                                            > > troubles getting data monkeys, even though they do compensate
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> there aren't too many people around like that ;)
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> and you did sent then back here right? :-)
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think if we ever got the LST editors to work,
                                            it'd make
                                            > > it a lot easier
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> that'd be nice
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> i know i mostly tell folks to not use them because
                                            > > they're
                                            > > rather buggy
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> then I would guess the lack of them is from the
                                            perception that
                                            > > has grown up since pcgen stopped distributing content like SW d20
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> yeah - but if we got them to work, it would make LST
                                            > > work a
                                            > > lot easier and I think do a lot to get more involved in it
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> alpha - maybe. I'm still hoping we can eventually
                                            get to
                                            > > the point where we can get Lucas' approval.
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> they would need to be alot more robust than they
                                            > > are now
                                            > > for me to use them
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> AlphaSEQ, what do you see the perception as?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'd love to include SW d20 again
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> heck at this point any licensed set would be a
                                            > > huge step
                                            > > in that directionn
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> The perception, from my point of view, is basically the
                                            loss of
                                            > > functionality
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> stuff that was there is gone, and only some of what was
                                            > > there can
                                            > > be obtained from CMP
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> so we need to talk to Mongoose saturday about
                                            > > Babylon 5
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> yeah, though the alternative was the loss of
                                            everything.
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think CMP has been able to cover everything other
                                            > > than SW
                                            > > that was lost.
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> so those that do play SW D20, FR, Eberron, etc... don't
                                            see
                                            > > PCGen
                                            > > as being a useful app
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> unless they can code the data themselves
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> CMP has eberron
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> but I know what you mean
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> right, but most people (and I don't disagree with what
                                            > > happened)
                                            > > see it as "I got the application for free, and now I have to pay to
                                            > > get what
                                            > > I need"
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> right, I've been fighting that battle for a few
                                            years now
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> in some ways it feels like a "Bait and Switch" type of
                                            thing
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> it would be a bait and switch if it had been
                                            planned that
                                            > > way, but I think I've made it pretty clear what all happened
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> you have to me, but that doesn't mean everyone sees it
                                            that way
                                            > > or understands it that way...
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> In any event, I'm pleased that PCGen gets to
                                            continue to
                                            > > exist and be free and add to what it offers for free
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> so am I
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'm also happy that CMP gets to produce closed
                                            data at a
                                            > > very low price (compared to the amount of effort it takes to
                                            create the
                                            > > data)
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> this keeps Wotc happy and (I hope) our customers
                                            happy
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> it's a difficult tight-rope to walk, but we try
                                            to do our
                                            > > best
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> I've been playing with PCGen since before the the 2.x
                                            -> 3.x
                                            > > shakeup
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I think PCGen has improved far beyond what it
                                            could do in
                                            > > 2.x
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> but talking with others at my gaming store look at
                                            PCGen as
                                            > > being
                                            > > useless to them, heheh
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> oh yes, there has been many changes since the 2.x
                                            > > days...and i started back in 1.4.x
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I sometimes wonder if Wotc will let us release the
                                            > > data for
                                            > > free if/when they announce 4e
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> if they go to 4e before a decade of 3.5e has gone by,
                                            then they
                                            > > can kiss me good bye as a customer
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> The fact that they are now owned by Hasboro
                                            dictates more
                                            > > to them then if they ran the show themselves
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> Alpha has a point, I think a lot of folks gave
                                            up on
                                            > > PCGen when the closed content material was removed and have not been
                                            > > back to
                                            > > see the improvements
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> When did 3e come out? was it 2000?
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> yep
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> and 3.5 was less than 3 years later
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> just the other day I read someone comment on a
                                            forum
                                            > > that PCGen couldn't do monster advancment properly
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> so 5 years so far.
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> don't know where that came from, I've never heard
                                            > > it was
                                            > > a problem
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> me neither
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> that might be another issue for PCGen
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> people either not understanding the rules or not
                                            bothering to
                                            > > provide feedback
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> If Wotc does announce 4e, they'd better have a *good*
                                            > > generator ready at launch time! I'd like to help write it :)
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> and a good conversion guide for all the campaign
                                            specific 3 and
                                            > > 3.5 books
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> we'll be handing out lots of PCGen CDs at GenCon
                                            - maybe
                                            > > that will help get some new people interested in helping out
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> that is part of what started to put me off of D&D
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> alpha - good point!
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> FR got caught by the rules conversion
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> though I wonder how much more like GURPS they can
                                            become
                                            > > without calling it GURPS - with class levels.
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> lol Bryan
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> so, anything else from anyone out there?
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> nope
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> nothing here
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I thought we'd have more of an audience
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> nope. Just good luck at Gencon and hope it leads to more
                                            > > recruits to your small, but loyal, monkey army
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> thanks :)
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I take it you won't be there?
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> never gone to a Con
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> too expensive to get to them for me
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I've only ever been to GenCon - and only 5 of them!
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> where are you at Alpha?
                                            > > * [CM]Zaister has joined #pcgen
                                            > > * ChanServ sets mode: +o [CM]Zaister
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> SW region
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> Arizona
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> I used to go to Dragon Con in atlanta all the
                                            time in
                                            > > the '90s
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I'll probably go to AZ in march to see some
                                            baseball.
                                            > > I'm a
                                            > > big baseball fan :)
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I went this year and it was great!
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> Too hot there in the summer
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> worse
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> it was muggy as well
                                            > > * [AFK]Zaister has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> I heard it was especially bad this year
                                            > > <AlphaSEQ> first time in 10 years, but we are in a drought
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> I gotta split guys, good talking with ya, see you
                                            > > saturday merton
                                            > > <[TM-SB]kingpaul> oh, and no meeting next week
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> right. see you there Eddy!
                                            > > <[Content_SB]mosat> night
                                            > > * [Content_SB]mosat has left #pcgen
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> Paul - do you post the log?
                                            > > <[BD]mertonmonk> ok - I gotta run as well. cya all later!
                                            > >
                                            > > ===
                                            > >
                                            > > Paul W. King
                                            > > TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Gibbon, BoD
                                            > > --
                                            > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                            > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                                            > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date:
                                            8/14/2005
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                            > > PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
                                            > > PCGen's FAQ:
                                            > > http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > SPONSORED LINKS
                                            > > Release
                                            > >
                                            <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Release&w1=Release&w2=Material&c=2&s=27&.sig=yf4dgT2eCQTGLonp65a5WA>

                                            > > Material
                                            > >
                                            <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Material&w1=Release&w2=Material&c=2&s=27&.sig=J5EF3iHfSqhWiJ2FHntvrA>

                                            > >
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                                            > >
                                            > >
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                                            > >
                                            > > * Visit your group "pcgen <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen>"
                                            > > on the web.
                                            > >
                                            > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > pcgen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > <mailto:pcgen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Paul W. King
                                            Y know, I can t win for trying. First, no log because its to long, just give the minutes. Then, no minutes, I want to see the nitty-gritty of the meeting, log
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Sep 4, 2005
                                              Y'know, I can't win for trying. First, no log because its to long, just give the minutes. Then, no minutes, I want to see the
                                              nitty-gritty of the meeting, log please. Now a request for both. *throws hands up in the air* I like Bryan's suggestion, *you* can
                                              do the minutes. :D

                                              Paul W. King
                                              TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Gibbon, BoD

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Wimmer
                                              Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 10:44 PM
                                              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [pcgen] BoD log - 8/14/05

                                              Would it be possible to have both the minutes and the log
                                              --
                                              No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                              Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                                              Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 9/2/2005
                                            • Kurt Wimmer
                                              I don t read the log or attend BoD meetings :)
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Sep 5, 2005
                                                I don't read the log or attend BoD meetings :)


                                                Paul W. King wrote:

                                                >Y'know, I can't win for trying. First, no log because its to long, just give the minutes. Then, no minutes, I want to see the
                                                >nitty-gritty of the meeting, log please. Now a request for both. *throws hands up in the air* I like Bryan's suggestion, *you* can
                                                >do the minutes. :D
                                                >
                                                >Paul W. King
                                                >TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Gibbon, BoD
                                                >
                                                >-----Original Message-----
                                                >From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Wimmer
                                                >Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 10:44 PM
                                                >To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                >Subject: Re: [pcgen] BoD log - 8/14/05
                                                >
                                                >Would it be possible to have both the minutes and the log
                                                >--
                                                >No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                                >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                                                >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 9/2/2005
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                                >PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
                                                >PCGen's FAQ:
                                                >http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/
                                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
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