Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

[BUG] "Hand: Two-Weapons"

Expand Messages
  • skasi_2000@yahoo.de
    PCGen 2.0.9 still doesn t calculate the off-hand To-Hit-modifier correctly, if you select Hand: Two-Weapons . The first attack is correct, the second one
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 1, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      PCGen 2.0.9 still doesn't calculate the off-hand To-Hit-modifier
      correctly, if you select "Hand: Two-Weapons". The first attack is
      correct, the second one always gets -10 (resp. -8 for small weapons)
      even if you have the Ambidexterity or Two-Weapon-Fighting feat.

      Example:
      1st level fighter, all stats at 10, PHB loaded, Two-Weapon-Fighting,
      Sword (Long), Hand: Two-Weapons, gets -3/-9 To-Hit (correct: -3/-7).
      1st level fighter, dexterity at 15, other stats at 10, PHB loaded,
      Ambidexterity, Sword (Long), Hand: Two-Weapons, gets -5/-9 To-Hit
      (correct: -5/-5).
      1st level fighter, dexterity at 15, other stats at 10, PHB loaded,
      Two-Weapon-Fighting, Ambidexterity, Sword (Long), Hand: Two-Weapons,
      gets -3/-9 To-Hit (correct: -3/-3).

      skasi
    • loyalp@home.com
      Actually, none of the numbers you present look correct based on p. 125 of the PHB... ... weapons) ... Fighting, ... Weapons,
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 1, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Actually, none of the numbers you present look correct based on p.
        125 of the PHB...

        --- In pcgen@y..., skasi_2000@y... wrote:
        > PCGen 2.0.9 still doesn't calculate the off-hand To-Hit-modifier
        > correctly, if you select "Hand: Two-Weapons". The first attack is
        > correct, the second one always gets -10 (resp. -8 for small
        weapons)
        > even if you have the Ambidexterity or Two-Weapon-Fighting feat.
        >
        > Example:
        > 1st level fighter, all stats at 10, PHB loaded, Two-Weapon-
        Fighting,
        > Sword (Long), Hand: Two-Weapons, gets -3/-9 To-Hit (correct: -3/-7).
        > 1st level fighter, dexterity at 15, other stats at 10, PHB loaded,
        > Ambidexterity, Sword (Long), Hand: Two-Weapons, gets -5/-9 To-Hit
        > (correct: -5/-5).
        > 1st level fighter, dexterity at 15, other stats at 10, PHB loaded,
        > Two-Weapon-Fighting, Ambidexterity, Sword (Long), Hand: Two-
        Weapons,
        > gets -3/-9 To-Hit (correct: -3/-3).
        >
        > skasi
      • merton_monk@yahoo.com
        Sure, be the spoil sport! ;) Hmmmm... was this a recent breakage? I could have sworn I used this recently and it worked. -Bryan
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 1, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          Sure, be the spoil sport! ;)

          Hmmmm... was this a recent breakage? I could have sworn I used this
          recently and it worked.

          -Bryan
        • skasi_2000@yahoo.de
          ... It is broken since version 2.0.8! skasi
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 1, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In pcgen@y..., merton_monk@y... wrote:
            > Sure, be the spoil sport! ;)
            >
            > Hmmmm... was this a recent breakage? I could have sworn I used this
            > recently and it worked.
            >
            > -Bryan

            It is broken since version 2.0.8!

            skasi
          • skasi_2000@yahoo.de
            ... 7). ... loaded, ... loaded, ... Ok, my example is a little bit confusing, I think. The above numbers are the TOTAL To-Hit-modifiers. Since I used a fighter
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 1, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In pcgen@y..., loyalp@h... wrote:
              > Actually, none of the numbers you present look correct based on p.
              > 125 of the PHB...
              >
              > --- In pcgen@y..., skasi_2000@y... wrote:
              > > PCGen 2.0.9 still doesn't calculate the off-hand To-Hit-modifier
              > > correctly, if you select "Hand: Two-Weapons". The first attack is
              > > correct, the second one always gets -10 (resp. -8 for small
              > weapons)
              > > even if you have the Ambidexterity or Two-Weapon-Fighting feat.
              > >
              > > Example:
              > > 1st level fighter, all stats at 10, PHB loaded, Two-Weapon-
              > Fighting,
              > > Sword (Long), Hand: Two-Weapons, gets -3/-9 To-Hit (correct: -3/-
              7).
              > > 1st level fighter, dexterity at 15, other stats at 10, PHB
              loaded,
              > > Ambidexterity, Sword (Long), Hand: Two-Weapons, gets -5/-9 To-Hit
              > > (correct: -5/-5).
              > > 1st level fighter, dexterity at 15, other stats at 10, PHB
              loaded,
              > > Two-Weapon-Fighting, Ambidexterity, Sword (Long), Hand: Two-
              > Weapons,
              > > gets -3/-9 To-Hit (correct: -3/-3).
              > >
              > > skasi

              Ok, my example is a little bit confusing, I think. The above numbers
              are the TOTAL To-Hit-modifiers. Since I used a fighter (+1 To-Hit at
              first level) they are off by one compared to p.125 of the PHB.

              skasi
            • jml@qualcomm.com
              ... weapons) ... And I still say it s not calculating my rapier correctly. I have a Rouge 2 Ranger 1 character. he uses a Raiper in primary hand and a
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 1, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In pcgen@y..., skasi_2000@y... wrote:
                > PCGen 2.0.9 still doesn't calculate the off-hand To-Hit-modifier
                > correctly, if you select "Hand: Two-Weapons". The first attack is
                > correct, the second one always gets -10 (resp. -8 for small
                weapons)
                > even if you have the Ambidexterity or Two-Weapon-Fighting feat.
                >

                And I still say it's not calculating my rapier correctly.

                I have a Rouge 2 Ranger 1 character. he uses a Raiper in primary
                hand and a shortsword in the off hand.

                his stats are:

                STR 13
                Dex 17
                Con 16
                Int 15
                Wis 15
                Cha 16

                Wearing Studded Leather

                And it's telling me that my rapier to hit is -1/-7 and my Short Sword
                is +3/-1. Now if I go by the PHB my to hit with a rapier should be
                +1/+1. I understand that it seems to still be miscalculating the off
                hand for two weapon fighting.
              • merton_monk@yahoo.com
                ... Sword ... off ... Using the latest development version I get +1 to-hit for both the rapier and short sword if I put the rapier in the primary hand and the
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 1, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In pcgen@y..., jml@q... wrote:
                  > --- In pcgen@y..., skasi_2000@y... wrote:
                  >
                  > I have a Rouge 2 Ranger 1 character. he uses a Raiper in primary
                  > hand and a shortsword in the off hand.
                  >
                  > his stats are:
                  >
                  > STR 13
                  > Dex 17
                  > Con 16
                  > Int 15
                  > Wis 15
                  > Cha 16
                  >
                  > Wearing Studded Leather
                  >
                  > And it's telling me that my rapier to hit is -1/-7 and my Short
                  Sword
                  > is +3/-1. Now if I go by the PHB my to hit with a rapier should be
                  > +1/+1. I understand that it seems to still be miscalculating the
                  off
                  > hand for two weapon fighting.

                  Using the latest development version I get +1 to-hit for both the
                  rapier and short sword if I put the rapier in the primary hand and
                  the short sword in the off-hand. I believe this is correct for your
                  character. Using two rapiers should be -1/-1 and using two
                  shortswords should be +1/+1. I'm fixing that now.

                  -Bryan
                • jml@qualcomm.com
                  ... your ... Actually I belive it would still be a +1/+1 because a Rapier is considred a Light Weapon, the same as a Short Sword.
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 2, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In pcgen@y..., merton_monk@y... wrote:
                    > Using the latest development version I get +1 to-hit for both the
                    > rapier and short sword if I put the rapier in the primary hand and
                    > the short sword in the off-hand. I believe this is correct for
                    your
                    > character. Using two rapiers should be -1/-1 and using two
                    > shortswords should be +1/+1. I'm fixing that now.

                    Actually I belive it would still be a +1/+1 because a Rapier is
                    considred a Light Weapon, the same as a Short Sword.
                  • merton_monk@yahoo.com
                    ... and ... I know the Rapier can be used for Weapon Finesse, but I don t think it s a Light weapon for Medium size characters since it s a medium sized
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 2, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In pcgen@y..., jml@q... wrote:
                      > --- In pcgen@y..., merton_monk@y... wrote:
                      > > Using the latest development version I get +1 to-hit for both the
                      > > rapier and short sword if I put the rapier in the primary hand
                      and
                      > > the short sword in the off-hand. I believe this is correct for
                      > your
                      > > character. Using two rapiers should be -1/-1 and using two
                      > > shortswords should be +1/+1. I'm fixing that now.
                      >
                      > Actually I belive it would still be a +1/+1 because a Rapier is
                      > considred a Light Weapon, the same as a Short Sword.

                      I know the Rapier can be used for Weapon Finesse, but I don't think
                      it's a Light weapon for Medium size characters since it's a medium
                      sized weapon. I think the exception is only for Weapon Finesse
                      (which can only be used on Light weapons) and not that it's
                      considered a Light weapon for all purposes. I could be wrong, don't
                      have my book with me...

                      -Bryan
                    • jml@qualcomm.com
                      ... your ... I did a Test using Chargen using the same character same stats. Raiper Short Sword combo is a +1/+1. Rapier Spiked gauntlet +1/+1 to hit. Rapier
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 2, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In pcgen@y..., merton_monk@y... wrote:

                        > Using the latest development version I get +1 to-hit for both the
                        > rapier and short sword if I put the rapier in the primary hand and
                        > the short sword in the off-hand. I believe this is correct for
                        your
                        > character. Using two rapiers should be -1/-1 and using two
                        > shortswords should be +1/+1. I'm fixing that now.

                        I did a Test using Chargen using the same character same stats.
                        Raiper Short Sword combo is a +1/+1.

                        Rapier Spiked gauntlet +1/+1 to hit.

                        Rapier Dagger (MasterWork) +1/+2 to hit.

                        Rapier alone +3 to hit which calculates correctly.

                        Rapier Rapier combo is a -1/-1 as you stated.

                        Short Sword Short Sword is a +1/+1 to hit.
                      • loyalp@home.com
                        You are 100% correct.
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 2, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          You are 100% correct.

                          --- In pcgen@y..., merton_monk@y... wrote:
                          > I know the Rapier can be used for Weapon Finesse, but I don't think
                          > it's a Light weapon for Medium size characters since it's a medium
                          > sized weapon. I think the exception is only for Weapon Finesse
                          > (which can only be used on Light weapons) and not that it's
                          > considered a Light weapon for all purposes. I could be wrong, don't
                          > have my book with me...
                          >
                          > -Bryan
                        • Greg Bezoff
                          Ah, I see jml s problem. He has mistakenly assumed that a rapier is considered a light weapon. It is not, unless wielded by a large creature. It IS, however,
                          Message 12 of 12 , Aug 2, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ah, I see jml's problem. He has mistakenly assumed that a rapier is
                            considered a light weapon. It is not, unless wielded by a large creature.
                            It IS, however, one of the two exceptions for the Weapon Finesse feat. The
                            Weapon Finesse feat says that you can choose one light weapon, OR a rapier
                            or spiked chain if you are at least medium size. This does not make
                            rapiers or spiked chains light weapons, so the appropriate penalties still
                            apply if you use them in your off hand. I can see how the misunderstanding
                            would arise, however. PCGen is calculating the attack bonuses correctly.

                            To further demonstrate the point, consider the text on page 97 of the
                            PHB. It lists definitions for the five relative weapon sizes, Light,
                            One-Handed, Two-Handed, Too Large to Use, and Unarmed Strike. Examples are
                            given, and a human using a rapier is included as the One-Handed example.
                            This is clear evidence that a rapier wielded by a medium creature falls
                            into the One-Handed rather than the Light class. Mayhap jml's character is
                            in for some redesign?

                            Greg
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.